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730825 - Lecture BG 02.19 - London

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730825BG-LONDON - August 25, 1973 - 27:20 Minutes

Pradyumna: (leads chanting of verse) (Prabhupāda and devotees repeat)

ya enaṁ vetti hantāraṁ
yaś cainaṁ manyate hatam
ubhau tau na vijānīto
nāyaṁ hanti na hanyate
(BG 2.19)


na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin
nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ
ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo
na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre
(BG 2.20)


Translation: "He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain."


Translation: "For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So, in different ways, Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince us how the soul is immortal. Different ways. Ya enaṁ vetti hantāram (BG 2.19). When there is fight or . . . so if one is killed or . . . so Kṛṣṇa says that if one thinks that, "This man has killed this man," so, or "This man can kill this man," this kind of knowledge is not perfect. Nobody kills nobody. Then the butchers, they may say that, "Then why do you complain that we are killing?" They're killing the body, but you cannot kill when there is injunction, "Thou shall not kill." That means you cannot kill the body even, without sanction. You cannot kill.

Although the soul is not killed, the body is killed, still you cannot kill the body without sanction. That is sinful. For example, that a man is living in some apartment. So some way or other you drive him away from that; illegally, you drive him away. So the man will go out and will take shelter somewhere. That's a fact. But because you have driven him away from his bona fide position, you are criminal. You cannot say: "Although I have driven away, he'll get some place." No. That's all right, but you have no power to drive him away. He was in his legal position to live in that apartment, and because you have forcibly driven him away you are criminal, you should be punished.

So this argument, the butchers or the animal killers or any kind of killer, they cannot put argument that, "Here, Bhagavad-gītā says that soul is never killed," na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), "Even after destroying the body. So why you are complaining that we are killing?" So this is the argument, that you cannot even kill the body. That is not allowed. That is sinful. Ubhau tau na vijānīto nāyaṁ hanti na hanyate.

So nobody kills anybody, neither anybody is killed by other. This is one thing. Again, in a different way, Kṛṣṇa says, na jāyate: the living entity never takes birth. The birth is of the body or the death is of the body. Living entity, the spiritual spark, then that being Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel, as Kṛṣṇa does not take birth, does not die . . . ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā (BG 4.6), you'll find in the Fourth Chapter. Ajo 'pi. Kṛṣṇa is aja. Aja means who never takes birth. Similarly, we being part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, we also never take birth. The birth and death is of this body, and we are so absorbed in the bodily concept of life that when there is birth or death of the body we feel the pains and pleasure. There is no pleasure, of course. Birth and death, it is very painful. Because . . . that is already explained. The consciousness of the soul is spread all over the body. Therefore the pains and pleasure felt on account of this body.

So Kṛṣṇa has already advised that such kinds of pains and pleasure, mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya (BG 2.14), touching the skin only, one should not be very much bothered. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. In this way if we think about our position, self-realization, how we are different from the body . . . actually, this is meditation. If we think very seriously about ourselves and about the body, that is self-realization. Self-realization means I am not this body; I am ahaṁ brahmāsmi, I am spirit soul. That is self-realization.

So na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Kadācit means at anytime—past, present and future, kadācit. In the past—it is already explained—in the past we existed, maybe in a different body. At present, we are existing, and in the future also, we shall exist, continue to exist, maybe in a different body. Maybe not, actually. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), because after giving up this body, we have to accept another body. So this is going on. And ignorance, without knowledge of self, we are being kept in ignorance. The so-called educational system, all over the world, there is no such education. They are kept in darkness and ignorance, and still so much money is being spent, especially in the Western countries. They have got money, big, big high schools, but what is the production?

All fools and rascals. That's all. Because they do not know. They have no idea what is self. And without this knowledge . . . knowledge means self-realization that, "I am not this body, I am spirit soul." That is knowledge. And knowledge how to eat, how to sleep, how to defend, how to enjoy sex life, and volumes of books on this subject matter, these are not knowledge. They are known even by the cats and dogs. The cats and dogs never read Freud's philosophy, but they know how to enjoy sex life.

So this dog's philosophy will not help you that, "I have got this body, and how to enjoy the bodily sex life." This is dog philosophy. A dog knows all these things. Your philosophy should be how to refrain from sex life. That is knowledge. Tapo divyam (SB 5.5.1). Tapasya. This human life is meant for tapasya, to refrain from sense gratification. That is knowledge. Not that how to enjoy sex life or sense gratification. This is known to cats and dogs without any education, without any philosophy. The philosophy, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. Pravṛtti.

Every living entity has got this pravṛtti, means propensity. What is that? Sense enjoyment. Loke vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā nityā hi jantor (SB 11.5.11). Jantuḥ means living being. Nitya, always, he has got the propensity, vyavāyāmiṣa-madya-sevā. Vyavāya. Vyavāya means sex life and āmiṣa means meat-eating. Vyavāya āmiṣa, madya-sevā, and intoxication. These are natural instincts of all living entities. Even amongst the ants these propensities are there. Those who have studied . . . the ants are very much fond of being intoxicated. Therefore they find out sweet, sugar. Sweet is intoxication. Perhaps you know, all. The liquor is made from sugar. Sugar is fermented with acid, sulphuric acid, and then it is distilled. That is liquor. Therefore too much sweet-eating is prohibited.

So loke vyavāya āmiṣa mada-sevā nityas tu jantuḥ. This is propensity. Material life means every living entity has got these propensities. But they have to be restricted. Pravṛttiḥ eṣaṁ bhūtānām. That is natural instinct. But if you can stop them, that is your excellence. That is called tapasya. Tapasya means I have got naturally some propensities, but that is not good. Not good in this sense: if we continue that propensity, then we have to accept this material body. This is the law of nature. There is a verse, pramattaḥ . . . what is called, that? Now I'm forgetting that. That everyone is mad, mad after sense gratification. Na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). So long we'll continue this propensity of sense enjoyment, you'll have to accept body. That is birth and death. So long.

Therefore, the process should be how to make zero all these propensities. That is perfection. Not to enhance it. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti. Nūnam, "alas," "indeed"; pramattaḥ, these madmen. They are mad, those who are after these propensities, vyavāya āmiṣa mada-sevā, sex, intoxication and meat-eating. They're all madmen. Pramattaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Vikarma means activities which are prohibited. We see, for these three things, āmiṣa-mada-sevayā, for sex life, for meat-eating, for drinking, people are working. Not only working; dishonestly working. How to get money, how to get money, the black market, white market, this, that, only for these three things: āmiṣa-mada-sevā, meat-eating, intoxication.

(break) Why? Āmiṣa-mada-sevayā. Simply for this sex, meat-eating and drinking. Āmiṣa-mada-sevayā. In the Vedic literature, they have studied analytically—not now—since very, very long time. You see? This is natural inclination. The creation is not new. There were many, many creations.

So all the records are there. So it is not new thing. Therefore, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). This is the instruction of Ṛṣabhadeva to His sons. "My dear sons, don't be misled. These rascal fools, they have become mad after these things—meat-eating and intoxication and sex life." Na sādhu manye, "It is not good at all." Na sādhu manye. "I don't allow. I don't say it is very good. It is not at all good." Na sādhu manye. "Why it is not good? We are enjoying life." Yes, you are enjoying now, but yata ātmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). So long you will continue with these things, you'll have to accept body, and when you accept body, there must be birth, there must be death, there must be disease and there must be, what is called, old age. You'll suffer. You'll suffer.

But your actual position is na jāyate. You do not take birth, but you have conditioned yourself to take birth. Actually, your position is no birth; eternal life. As Kṛṣṇa is eternal, similarly, every one of us, we are eternal because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa—the same quality. As Kṛṣṇa is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1), He is form, transcendental form, eternal form, full of knowledge, full of bliss, similarly we are also, although particle, the same quality. Therefore it is said, na jāyate. This problem, this rascal civilization they cannot understand, that I am eternal; I am put into this condition of birth and death. No rascal understands, so-called philosophers, scientists, all of them; therefore rascals, fools. Reject them. Reject them immediately. They are working hard, the same: nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4), just like madman works. What is the value of madman's work? If he's busy whole day and night, "I am very busy," "So what you are, sir? You are a madman. Your brain is cracked, crazy. So what is the value of your work?" But this is going on.

So Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you just imagine how important movement it is. It is the best welfare activities for the human society. They are all fools and rascals, and they have no knowledge, ignorant of their constitutional position, and they are unnecessarily working hard day and night. Therefore they have been said mūḍha. Mūḍha means ass. The ass works day and night for the washerman for little grass. Grass is available everywhere, but he, still, he thinks that "If I do not work for the washerman very hard, I'll not get this grass." This is called ass. Therefore, when one becomes intelligent after cultivating knowledge . . . one becomes intelligent by and by. First of all brahmacārī. Then, if one cannot remain a brahmacārī, all right, take a wife, gṛhastha. Then give up, vānaprastha. Then take sannyāsa. This is the process. The mūḍha, they'll work day and night for sense gratification. Therefore, at a certain period of life, that stupidity should be given up and taken sannyāsa. "No. Finished." That is sannyāsa. "Now this portion of life should be completely for Kṛṣṇa's service." That is real sannyāsa.

Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ (BG 6.1). It is my duty to serve Kṛṣṇa. I am eternal servant of . . . kāryam. Must I do it, must I serve Kṛṣṇa. That is my position. That is sannyāsa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryam karma karoti yaḥ. The karmīs, they are expecting some good result for sense gratification. That is karmī. And sannyāsī means . . . they are also working very hard, but not for sense gratification; for the satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. That is sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa and karmī. Karmī also works very hard, harder and harder, but all for this āmiṣa-mada-sevā. Āmiṣa-mada-sevā. Vyavāya, only for sex life, eating meat, and intoxication.

And a devotee works in the same way, hard, but for Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction. This is the difference. And if you, one life before like this, no more sense gratification, simply for Kṛṣṇa, then you come to this position, na jāyate, no more death, no more birth. Because your position is na jāyate na . . . that is your actual position. But because you are in ignorance, pramattaḥ, you have become mad, you have become crazy, therefore you have taken to this process of sense gratification. Therefore you are entangled in a material body, and the body is changing. That is called birth and death.

So if you stop, if you want to stop this birth and death, don't indulge in sense gratification, then again entangle.

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma
yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti
na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam
asann api āsa kleśada dehaḥ
(SB 5.5.4)

"All right, this body is for few years, it will be ended." And that's all right. It will be ended, but you'll have to accept another body. The body, accepting the body, you have to, because you have got desire, sense gratification. So sense gratification means you must have material senses to gratify. So Kṛṣṇa is so pleased, so merciful—not pleased, but He's very merciful—"All right, this rascal wants like this. Give him this facility. All right. This rascal wants to eat stool. All right. Let him have a body of pig." This is going on, nature's law.

So this knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā knowledge, is so perfect for the human society. And Kṛṣṇa wants that this knowledge should be spread because everybody . . . sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ (BG 14.4). He's the seed-giving father. Father is naturally well-wisher, that "These rascals, they are suffering," prakṛti-sthāni. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). "Simply by . . . guided by mental speculation, manaḥ, and assisted by the senses, they are struggling so hard. And if they come back to Me they can live so nicely, as My friend, as My lover, as My father, as My mother, Vṛndāvana. So claim again. Call them." That . . . therefore, Kṛṣṇa comes. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya (BG 4.7). Because the whole world is running on under the false impression of sense enjoyment, therefore He comes and advises, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66): "You rascal, give up all this engagement. Don't be proud that you are scientifically advanced. You are all rascals. Give up this nonsense. Come to Me. I'll give you protection." This is Kṛṣṇa. How merciful He is. And the same business should be done by Kṛṣṇa's servant. Not to become a great yogī, magic player. No, that is not required. Simply speak what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you become spiritual master. Don't speak anything nonsense.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu also said, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Simply you preach the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, whomever you meet. Then you become spiritual master. That's all. Very simple thing.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda . . . (end)