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730301 - Conversation in Car - Jakarta

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

730301CR-JAKARTA - March 01, 1973 - 17:17 Minutes

(in car)

Prabhupāda: . . . have the right to become a brahmin.

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But generally, unless they are very highly elevated, why they should be called . . . (break) . . . wanted to elevate them, harijanas.

Amogha: Harijanas.

Prabhupāda: But he did not know how to make them harijana. He was politically trying. These are old garments?

Amogha: No. New.

Prabhupāda: They are selling new.

Amogha: Yes. This is a very well attended market, this area.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I can see. When the market opens?

Amogha: About 9 o'clock or 9:30. Then they open until 12:30 and close all afternoon. All over Jakarta they close all afternoon, and at five o'clock then they open.

Prabhupāda: And go then up to 10:00.

Amogha: Hmm, 8:30.

Devotee: It's a good system in a country with this weather, very hot in the afternoon, to close the business in the midday. Our visas are all completely . . . (indistinct)

Amogha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . some small . . .

Amogha: Oh, a small quarter. (break) Some type of military school. Looks like naval.

Prabhupāda: (japa) This road is very nice. This road, very nice road. What is meaning of toko?

Amogha: Toko means store, shop.

Devotee: If they say bookstore, they say toko booko.

Prabhupāda: Toko semara? Toko semara?

Amogha: Maybe that's one particular store. Usually they say what type of store. Toko sapatu means shoe store.

Prabhupāda: Sapato?

Amogha: Sapatu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Sapato.

Amogha: Toko bunga means flower store. They usually have the category.


Prabhupāda: These are wholesale merchants?

Amogha: It appears to be. Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is just like Indian market.

Amogha: Oh.

Prabhupāda: In India also.

Amogha: Similar country.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, I've seen Philippines also like this. Japan is almost like this.

Amogha: Yes. I was there also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tokyo.

Amogha: In Malaysia also . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: These are all Oriental countries. Five thousand years ago this whole planet was India, Bhārata-varṣa. That we get from history, Mahābhārata. This planet name is Bhārata-varṣa.

Amogha: After King Parīkṣit, then it divided up, that soon after?

Prabhupāda: Divided? They are also already divided. But the culture diminished. Because the center of culture was India, Delhi. So as the power diminished, the maintenance of the culture diminished, and by contact with other types of aboriginal, they learned eating meat and gradually degraded. And they discovered different types of religion because . . . just like at the present moment the Christians are protesting why there should not be abortion.

So they wanted to degraded. So the Indian culture did not allow, so the separate type of religion came out. This is the . . . (indistinct) . . . they wanted, "Why there should not be meat-eating?" But Indian culture would not allow, so they become Muhammadans, they become Christians, like this. Even in India all the . . . what are these Muhammadans? The Muhammadans, they are lower-class man, less than śūdra. But Hindus, higher class, they would not touch it. But when the Muhammadans came that, "We will be on equal right," they, they become Muhammadans.

Amogha: So there's no spiritual motive.

Prabhupāda: Later on it became political, because as soon as the spiritual power, culture, became diminished, the whole thing became material. So people wanted material advantage, so separated from Vedic culture. Just like Buddhism. Buddhism was a Hindu culture. But Lord Buddha wanted to stop animal sacrifice. In the Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended under certain condition. Even denied that, "No, that also cannot be done." So therefore they are separate from Vedic culture. After all these, all these religious systems—Muhammadanism, Jewism, then Christianism, Buddhism—their history's not more than 2,000 years. And before 2,000 years, what was the culture?

Amogha: The Christians here get money from America. In Bali, where those many Hindus live, they convert many people by saying: "If you become a Christian, you'll have good economy with us."

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Devotee: Same in Madras.

Prabhupāda: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, "Yes, come on, take money."


(break) Very many meat shops. Rather this vegetable . . .

Amogha: It's expensive.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Amogha: It costs a lot of money. Meat is more expensive to eat. Actually, most people, mostly they eat vegetables because it is available. But there's much fish. There's much fish, and they carry around in the streets everywhere.

Devotee: In the Eastern countries usually people eat little bits of meat with their vegetable. It's only in the West that they eat steak.

Amogha: But in every restaurant they all have meat. Much chicken also. They raise chickens.


Tomorrow morning we have asked some Indian community leaders to come about 7 o'clock, because they want to be requested by you to do something to help make a temple or what you like. But they . . . apparently they feel unhappy because we have not met with the leaders and asked them to help.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I request them? They should come forward. They should come forward.

Amogha: Well, actually that meeting with the Indians, they wanted you to eat some prasādam in the room and come inside and request, and ask you like that.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I cannot do that.

Amogha: That was before that night they wanted . . . I think . . .

Devotee: No, he doesn't understand . . . the night that, the first gathering at the Indian man's home, they all wanted to meet with you then, but Amogha didn't know that. They were planning to come in the room and offer their services. But there was some mix-up, and they didn't understand. They thought they had been cut off.

Amogha: They told me they wanted you to go in the room for prasādam. But they wanted a meeting, and they didn't tell me. I didn't know.

Prabhupāda: I can request them. But if they deny, that will be insult for me. Therefore I do not like to request them. That will be not good for them, if I request and then they deny, or they do not do. That is not that will be good for them. It is better not to request. That will be offense, if they deny.

Or if they do not carry out my order, then it will be offense. Why should they put themself in such risk? Generally it is the duty of the householder to offer, "Sir, what can I do for you?" Then I can request. And if, as a beggar, I request them and they deny, then that will be great offense for them. That will not good for them.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Amogha: We are almost there.

Prabhupāda: So you wanted to secure place here?

Amogha: Yes. They have a house in this area, but it is a bit far from the center of town.

Prabhupāda: Never mind. It is good quarter, you can take it.

Amogha: Okay. It is about one mile more, though.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Amogha: Okay.

Prabhupāda: This is also a center. It is congested.

Amogha: Yes. It is near a bus station also.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (end)