730227 - Conversation B - Jakarta

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



730227R2-JAKARTA - February 27, 1973 - 15:06 Minutes



(poor audio)

Amogha: Yaḥ tasya... Yaḥ śāstra.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: I can't see it.

Prabhupāda: Y-a-...

Amogha: Oh, yah, yah.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yaḥ śāstra.

Amogha: I thought j.

(pause)

I don't see it. I don't see it. Yaḥ śāstra..

Prabhupāda: There is no yaḥ?

Amogha: There's yā niśā sarva-bhūtānām.

Prabhupāda: That is yā, yā. That is j-ā, yā niśā, no, y-ā. Yes. So y-a-ḥ, yaḥ.

Amogha: Y-a-ḥ.

Prabhupāda: Then śāstra.

Amogha: Yaḥ śāstra vidhim...

Prabhupāda: Hah!

Amogha: Sixteen, verse 23.

Prabhupāda: Utsṛjya, vidhim utsṛjya, yes. Find out that.

Amogha: Chapter Sixteen, verse twenty-three. Shall I read it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha:

yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya
vartate kāma-kārataḥ
na sa siddhim avāpnoti
na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim
(BG 16.23)

Prabhupāda: Translation. Translation, read.

Amogha: "But he who discards scriptural injunctions, and acts according to his own whims, attains neither perfection nor happiness nor the supreme destination."

Prabhupāda: That's it. (Hindi) ...bogus, bogus. This is statement of Kṛṣṇa. Can you give us the statement of Kṛṣṇa? And accept some foolish statement. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He's also giving reference to the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra. He can say anything, everything, He's God Himself; but still He gives reference to the śāstra. So anyone who's speaking against the injunction of the śāstra, he's a bogus. There is another verse, find out: tasmād śāstra pramāṇaṁ te. Tasmād, t-a-s-m-a-d.

Amogha: Tasmād...

Prabhupāda: Śāstra.

(pause as devotees look for verse) Tasmād śāstra...

Amogha: I see tasmād sarveṣu kāleṣu, but I didn't see śāstra.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) In the same Sixteenth Chapter, you will find this verse, tasmād. After that.

Amogha: It says t-a-s-m-ā-c, tasmāc śāstra...

Prabhupāda: It is really tasmād; it has become c, and by sandhya. Tasmāc-chāstra.

Amogha: Word-by-word it is tasmād.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: But together (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: By sandhya it becomes c. That is (indistinct). The original word is tasmād. Then? What is the translation?

Amogha: Translation: "One should understand what is duty and what is not duty by the regulations of the scriptures. Knowing such rules and regulations one should act so that he may gradually be elevated."

Prabhupāda: They have manufactured different types of religion, different types of philosophy. All these—Radhaswami, (indistinct), Jains, Sikhs, they have manufactured. (indistinct) And our Vedic regulation is anyone who does not accept the śāstra... Just like such a great personality as Buddha, simply he said that "I do not follow the Vedic principles." That Buddhism could not flourish, although Buddhism began from India. Lord Buddha was kṣatriya king, (indistinct). He started this movement. But because he did... Simply he said that "I do not accept your Vedas," immediately he was rejected... Such a great personality of (indistinct). This is the śāstra.

So anyone who does not follow the śāstra... The essence of śāstra is Bhagavad-gītā. So anyone who studies Bhagavad-gītā minutely will become perfect. These European, American boys, because they're strictly following the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, therefore (indistinct). Only thing is they're following the footsteps, according to śāstra. Śāstra, everyone, in reality (indistinct) ... injunction without any malinterpretation. Otherwise, waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Simply wasting time. (indistinct)

Christian religion has failed all over the world because they are neglected the śāstric injunctions. Nobody goes to church. Churches, churches are now being sold. In London... Have you been in London? There are hundreds and thousands of churches, they're simply vacant; nobody goes there. Not only in England; in America. In America still they are going on, because there are followers, churches. But in England I have said, it is this... nobody goes. Very, very nice.

You have been to London? Oh, ...(indistinct) or Chursley (Chertsey?), there is one very aristocratic (indistinct). Big, aristocratic man lived there. And that quarter there is a so excellent church, (indistinct) very big church, well constructed.

Now the church authority, desiring that somebody... He's imagining. He wanted to purchase that church. He's imagining that "This is such a nice church, so our... Government has sent somebody to take this church." He's thinking Americans may take... No. Why Americans will be interested to take the church as it is? But he's thinking like that. That means he wants to dismantle the church. But church now will not allow. But he's finding out some customer who will take the church some other place. So that, that quarter land is very valuable. So if the land is vacated, then you may have a little church, and other land he can utilize for himself. That is his proposition.

And so far purchasing the church, there may be, but others will purchase the church for dismantling and making a nice skyscraper building. They do not want that. Church law will not allow. We say that we shall not dismantle the church; we shall utilize it as temple. But he says... Crazy idea, I.... Never successful. But my point is that church is so excellent, huge amount of money has been spent, but nobody...?

(pause) (Hindi)

So I chastised them "fools and rascals" in a meeting, but they did not protest. They accepted my chastisement.

Amogha: Oh, you mean yesterday. Oh, that.

Prabhupāda: Not yesterday. Today also.

Amogha: Tonight.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: I used these words, strong words. Rascals fools.

Amogha: Yes. That's good. Oh, those... Yes. I had... No one spoke to me.

Prabhupāda: But they offer respect.

Amogha: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They were not irritated, otherwise they would not have...

Amogha: Yes. They must have accepted.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: They must have accepted. (end)