721219 - Lecture BG 07.04 - Bombay

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721219BG-BOMBAY - December 19, 1972 - 42:12 Minutes


. . . vāyuḥkhaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
ahaṅkāra itīyaṁ me
bhinnā prakṛtir aṣṭadhā
(BG 7.4)

So shall I speak in English?

Devotees: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Because if I speak in Hindi, these people cannot understand.

So this is very scientific proposal. How these material elements—earth, water, fire, air, sky—and subtle material elements—mind, intelligence and ego—are growing from Kṛṣṇa. But if we give little attention, it is not very difficult to understand. Just like you sow one little seed on the ground, just like a banyan tree. Gradually that seed becomes a very big banyan tree. So matter does not produce living energy. From the living energy the matter is produced. That is the fact.

The theory that . . . Buddhist theory, they say that living symptom grows under certain condition of material combination. That is not the fact. We don't find such things. Then the scientist would have been able to produce life in the laboratory by combination of matter and chemicals. So far it has not been possible, neither it is possible at any time, because from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that two energies are working: material energy and the spiritual energy. Here is the description of the material energy: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, and the next verse it is clearly said that apareyam, all these material energies, they are inferior quality.

And besides this inferior quality material elements there is another prakṛti, or nature: jīva-bhūtāṁ, that is living entity, mahā-bāho. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Practically the spiritual energy is maintaining this cosmic manifestation, not the material energy. Unfortunately, the material scientists, they do not understand it, and they put different theories, that from matter spiritual energy grows. No. That is not the fact.

The practical example is, just like our, this body: this body is produced when the living entity is there within the womb of the mother. The living entity is injected through the semina of the father within the womb of the mother. Karmaṇā-daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). According to our karma, we are put into the semina of a particular type of father, and the living entity is injected in sex life within the womb of the mother. And if there is no, I mean to say, disadvantage for the living condition of the living entity within the womb of the mother, then it grows body.

The modern contraceptive method is to destroy the favorable condition for the living entity, it is not allowed. The living entity does not die, na jāyate mriyate vā (BG 2.20); living entity has no death. But because a living entity ordained to live under certain condition in the womb, and that is checked, that is violating the order of the Supreme. By Supreme, daiva-netreṇa, by superior management . . . there is a big management, superior management. By superior management it is a living entity is put to accept a certain type of body.

When it is disturbed, that means it is neglecting the order of the Supreme; therefore it is sin. The contraceptive methods adopted by the modern civilization is sinful activity, because it is not allowed to accept a certain place which was ascertained, or allotted, by the Supreme Will. Not the living entity dies, but it is refused the place. Just like the example, one apartment is allotted to you, and if somebody does not allow you to enter that apartment, it is criminal. It is criminal. Is it not, in the law? Ha? If you are allotted some . . . you have rented some room, and you are going there, but somebody comes and does not allow you, "No, you cannot enter," or by force he drives you away, then it is a criminal act.

So these . . . there are so many subtle laws of material nature, or God. We do not know it, therefore we are committing simply sinful life, and sinful life means godlessness. That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā: na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). Duṣkṛtina, because they are always engaged in sinful activities, and mūḍhāḥ, rascal, ignorant, without any knowledge of the laws of nature or laws of God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Narādhamāḥ. In the human form of life, there is a chance of understanding or knowing all these laws of God and nature. It is not difficult. Everything is described in the literature, Vedic literature.

Simply we have to read it and know it. Just like what I was explaining to you, how a living entity develops a material body. Not that I have experimented in the laboratory or I am a great scientist, but I take it from the Vedic literature. It is clearly written there: karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye. How a living entity develops his material body, that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So we can read it, we can learn it, then we understand the science of different bodies. There are 8,400,000 species of bodies. So the knowledge is there.

Here also the same thing, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, claims that all these material energies, all these material elements: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4), "They are My energies." So as we produce this body by our energy as soon as we are placed in the womb of our mother, then we develop our body. Therefore this is a fact. Just like if a child is born dead, it does not grow body, because the soul is now gone from the body. Therefore it is . . . the conclusion is that the spirit soul is the basic principle for growing matter. Not that from matter living symptoms are grown. That's not a fact. From the living body, from the living entity, this matter grows.

We have got so many instances, just like from the seed of a banyan tree a big tree grows. And Kṛṣṇa says, bījaṁ māṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ (BG 7.10), "I am the bīja, I am the seed." "I am the seed." He claims to be the seed. So why not when He says that "These material elements are My energies," so what is the difficulty to understand? Just like this material body, it has grown up out of my energy. I am a fragmental spiritual spark, part and parcel of the Supreme. We are . . . I am the same quality, but very, very small. That smallness is also described in the Vedic literatures:

śatāṁśaḥ sādṛśātmakaḥ
jīvaḥ sūkṣma-svarūpo 'yaṁ
saṅkhyātīto hi cit-kaṇaḥ
(CC Madhya 19.140)

The dimension of the living entity is there. It is a false theory that the soul has no form or God has no form. God has form and the soul has form: nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13), these are the Vedic information. Every one of us, we have got form, but the form is so small and minute that we cannot see with these gross material eyes.

Therefore we have to take information from the Vedic literature about the form. Śruti. Things . . . just like in the present age also, we are accepting so many things simply by hearing. Just like these people are advertising that they are going to the moon planet. You do not go to the moon planet, you simply hear from the newspaper and believe it. That's all. So it does not require experiment. If you hear from the authoritative source you have to accept it as fact, not that in every instance you have to use your senses directly.

So therefore hearing is very important thing, and the Vedas are called śrutis. Śruti means the knowledge from the Vedas are received by hearing: śrotreṇa, by hearing. The hearing also we get so many knowledge. Just like here we are speaking from Bhagavad-gītā: you are hearing. So unless you think that by hearing you shall get the knowledge, then why do you take so much trouble of hearing? So hearing is very important, and according to Vedic system there are three kinds of evidences: śruti, aitihya and anumāna—no—pratyakṣa, anumāna . . . and śruti. pratyakṣa - direct perception and śruti - by hearing . . . (indistinct) . . . gave more importance to the process of hearing than . . .

(break) . . . pratyakṣa. That is actually happening, just like we are seeing: directly we are seeing the sun planet, but we are seeing just like a disk, but actually it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than the sun. So this knowledge we get by hearing from the expert astronomer, that the body of the sun is so big. Therefore śruti is very important thing.

So our Vedic system is that you hear from the Vedas the exact knowledge, exact information, and you get exact knowledge. We cannot change it. We give so much importance to the writings of the Vedas, śruti-pramāṇa. Śruti-pramāṇa, evidence by hearing, by the Vedas. So here we are hearing from Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, that matter grows out of the energy of the spirit soul. This is a fact. Therefore the spirit soul, jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate (BG 7.5), the spirit soul has been given more importance than the material elements, aparā.

These material elements are inferior quality energy of the Supreme Lord, whereas the living entity is superior quality of energy of the Lord. This is the conclusion. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho: superior quality. Because we living entities, we are trying to exploit the material energy. That is material civilization. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. This material world means the superior energy, living entity, is trying to lord it over the material energy. That's all. This is material energy, or world—everyone, according to our capacity. The animals, they are also making their house, the bird also preparing their nest on the tree, which we cannot do. They are expert in making their own nest; neither we can live in that way, and we are creating or making the skyscraper buildings.

So according to the intelligence we are trying to exploit the material resources, either as bird or beast or insect or human being or demigod. There are so many—8,400,000 species of forms of life. Everyone is trying. Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). That is explained by Kṛṣṇa, that "These living entities, they are My part and parcel," because part and parcel, we have got the same quality. As God has created this big, gigantic universe . . . not only one universe—there are many millions and trillions of universes. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). Jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi: simply by expansion of His brahmajyoti. Within the brahmajyoti there are innumerable universes, and in each and every universe there is innumerable number of planets:

yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-
koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi vibhūti-bhinnam
(Bs. 5.40)

Each and every planet has got different atmosphere; they are not of the same type. Therefore on the moon planet the atmosphere is different. These people are going there, but I do not know whether they are going. Even they are going, but they could not give us the real atmosphere of the moon planet. But we get it. We have got all the information in the Vedic literatures. It is very cold, and I think some scientists said that the temperature in the moon planet is below zero two hundred degrees. Is it not? Yes.

They said, two hundred degrees. It is very cold. So all the information, and we get information from Bhāgavatam that the moon planet is very cold, and the inhabitants there, they drink soma-rasa, soma-rasa, a kind of beverage which makes the body warm, suitable for living condition in the moon planet. And they live for ten thousands of years. So now they say there is no life there, but we get a different information; there is contradiction.

So apart from this, all this material cosmic manifestation, this material world, is born out of the energy of the Supreme Lord. That we can understand very easily. Not that all of a sudden some matter came into existence, there was a chunk, and just like so many theories are there about the creation. Not that. From practical experience we see that from the living seed a big tree comes out from the living spark. This body comes out, and as soon as this living spark goes out of it, tyaktvā dehaṁ, as it gives up this body, then he has to accept another body: tathā dehāntara-prāptir. In this way the material world is going on. Unless there is a living entity within the matter, it does not grow a body.

The conclusion is, as Kṛṣṇa says, that "The material elements are different products of My energy." As we produce our body by our own energy, just like this hair . . . this hair is growing because I have got the energy. I do not know what is that energy, how it is growing. I do not know. But it is a fact. I have got a reserve energy by which the hairs are growing, the nails are growing, the body is growing, changing corpuscles. But as soon as I leave this body, there will be no more hair growing, no more nails coming. This is very easy to understand, that as my energy is producing matter in this body, similarly it is Kṛṣṇa's energy which is producing this material world. This is the right conclusion:

bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ
khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca
apareyam itas tv anyāṁ
prakṛtiṁ viddhi me parām
jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho
(BG 7.4-5)

So this jīva-bhūtā, very small, minute, one ten-thousandth part of the upper portion of the hair, keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya (CC Madhya 19.140). Keśāgra, the tip of the hair, you divide into hundred parts. Then take one part, again divide it into hundred parts, jīvo bhāgaḥ sa vijñeyaḥ sa, that is the dimension of the living entity. That means we cannot see even the tip of the hair. It is just like a small full stop. But how you can divide it into ten thousand parts? You have no machine, you have no experimental process. But there is a form; it is so small. That small particle is within you, within me, within the elephant, within the ant, within Brahma—everywhere.

But they have got, developed, different types of bodies. But the basic principle is a small particle of part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. So how much Kṛṣṇa can produce? If I am a small particle of Kṛṣṇa, I can produce the body like this or an elephant, so how much Kṛṣṇa can expand His body. This is not very difficult to understand. Simply one should be little sober and try to understand it by reasoning. So it is fact. Not that Kṛṣṇa is speaking something fabulous, we may not believe. But we have to believe it, from factual fact.

etad-yonīni bhūtāni
sarvāṇīty upadhāraya
ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ
prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā
(BG 7.6)

This is another proposal, that all this etad-yonīni . . . there are 8,400,000 of forms or species of life, so Kṛṣṇa says they are simply combination of this superior energy and inferior energy, the material energy and spiritual energy—two energies. Just like we produce something by combination of matter, matter only, because we cannot produce spiritual energy. That is not possible, because that is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. We can handle with these material elements. We . . . the material elements, we collect some earth, some wood, some stone or some other things, and combine together we can create a big skyscraper building. So if we can create a skyscraper building, why not Kṛṣṇa create the whole universe?

What is the difference? Why we should disbelieve this statement? If I am a small particle, I can create so many things, big, big bridges and big, big houses. So Kṛṣṇa, the full spiritual identity . . . because He is full spiritual identity; we are simply part and parcel: nityo nityānāṁ (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). He is also living entity. He is not impersonal. We just . . . we are person, a small quantity of spirit, we have got our personality; and the biggest spiritual whole, why He should be impersonal? He must be person.

This is the conclusion. But because we cannot understand . . . just like we do not know whether the president of our India is a person or impersonal because we have not seen him. That does not mean that he is not a person. Similarly, because you have not seen Kṛṣṇa, we cannot conclude that God is impersonal. But from evidences, by reasoning, at least we can understand that if we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, each one of us is an individual person, why the origin of our existence should be impersonal? What is the reason?

Therefore Kṛṣṇa said that avajānati māṁ mūḍhā. God is person they cannot understand, they cannot accommodate, because they are mūḍhā, rascals. They have no sufficient knowledge. Avajānati māṁ mūḍhā. It is bewildering how the origin of the cosmic manifestation can become a person. But it is not difficult to understand. Suppose we have heard about so many big, big industrialists; they have got big, big mills running on. But if somebody says that the person by whose energy the mills are running on, he is a person, so what is the reason that we shall not believe that he is a person?

Yes, we believe. Similarly, this cosmic manifestation created by the energy of Kṛṣṇa. Why should we not accept Him as a person? What is the reason? He said: "They are My energies." As you can create by your energies so many things, so why Kṛṣṇa cannot create the whole cosmic manifestation by His energies? This is the fact.

Here two energies are explained: material energy and spiritual energy, and Kṛṣṇa explains here: etad yonīni bhūtāni sarvāṇīty upadhāraya (BG 7.6). So just try to understand. All these things, they are simply a combination of matter and spirit, that's all. As soon as the spirit is minus, the matter remains a lump of matter; and as soon as the spirit is there, it moves. Therefore because it moves, the moving force, therefore it is superior energy.

But Kṛṣṇa concludes that: ahaṁ kṛtsnasya jagataḥ prabhavaḥ pralayas tathā (BG 7.6). But He is the original, because the material energy is coming from Him, and the spiritual energy is also coming from Him. Therefore He is the origin of both the energies. Therefore He is the original cause—cause of all causes. That is accepted: īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Vigrahaḥ: He is not imperson; vigrahaḥ means He has got a form:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(Bs. 5.1)

He is the cause of all causes. And Kṛṣṇa also says in the Bhagavad-gītā:

ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo
mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate
iti matvā bhajante māṁ
budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ
(BG 10.8)

One who knows that Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything, bhāva. This bhāva required, ecstasy: "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great." That required. That bhāva, to produce that bhāva, it requires training. That training is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You have to produce the bhāva. Unless you get that bhāva, you cannot understand. One who has got the bhāva, iti matvā bhajante māṁ, budhā bhāva-samanvitāḥ (BG 10.8)

So a devotee means who has attained to the stage of bhāva. Budhā. And that bhāva cannot be produced unless one is budhā. Budhā means perfect in knowledge. That is also stated in another way. Kṛṣṇa says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19): after many, many births of philosophical speculation, jñānavān, the jñānavān, those who are wise men, they do not accept all of a sudden anything; they want to apply their reasoning.

So philosophy is the science of reason. So jñānī, wise man, they may speculate for many, many births, but ultimately, unless he comes to the conclusion vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), "Kṛṣṇa is everything, Kṛṣṇa is the origin of everything," his knowledge is imperfect. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ. Unless one comes to this knowledge, he is simply speculation. Śrama eva hi kevalam, that is stated. Śrama, simply labor. In another place it is said that:

ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
(SB 10.2.32)

Vimukta-māninas. By mental speculation they think that they have become liberated, they have become Nārāyaṇa. No. One cannot become Nārāyaṇa, but everyone is part and parcel of Nārāyaṇa; or in quality, the Nārāyaṇa quality is there. Not that the supreme Nārāyaṇa. That is not possible. Part cannot be equal to the whole.

Therefore one who feels falsely that, "Now I am now liberated. I have realized myself. I am God, or Nārāyaṇa," the Bhāgavata says, aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ: his intelligence is still contaminated. He is under the clutches of māyā. How he can be Nārāyaṇa? That is not possible. Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. And because his intelligence is not cleansed, therefore:

āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ
(SB 10.2.32)

Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by severe type of austerities and penances. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they observe very severe type of . . . not nowadays, but during Śaṅkarācārya's time, they used . . . they used to take three times bath, lying down on the floor, no bedding, nothing—very strict. So that is . . . that process of self-realization is very, very difficult. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa. Kṛcchreṇa means "difficult process." So accepting this difficult process of self-realization, they come to the point of Brahman realization, paraṁ padaṁ. "But because he has no shelter under Your lotus feet, he falls down again to the material world."

We have seen many learned Māyāvādī philosophers, they first of all give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, but after a few days they come back again in this mithyā world to profess, or to continue their business as humanitarian, opening schools and hospitals. "Why you are coming here again and opening hospitals and schools? If you have left this world as mithyā, why you are after this mithyā schools and hospitals?"

But they could not get anything, Brahman. They could not understand what is Brahman. That is the defect. That is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ (SB 10.2.32): by severe austerities and penances they come to the point of Brahman understanding. But because they have no shelter on the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they fall down again to these material engagements. That is sure and certain.

So that is not the process. Therefore Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, said that after having bitter experiences of this going up and coming down—ā-brahma-bhuvanāl lokāḥ punar āvartino 'rjuna (BG 8.16)—so when actually comes to the conclusion that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), Kṛṣṇa is everything, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that type of mahātmā is very rare. The mahātmā talking here this and that, that you can see, many. But one who has concluded that Kṛṣṇa is everything, Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme—sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. So we have to take account. What is that? Symptoms that a mahātmā . . . mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Such mahātmā, they are under the influence of spiritual energy.

We have already explained material energy and spiritual energy. Therefore we Vaiṣṇavas, we take shelter of the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa—Rādhārāṇī or Sītā, Sītā-Rāma. Rādhārāṇī, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. We take shelter of the energy. Instead of, just like you . . . we can take shelter of the sunshine, the energy of the sun. You cannot directly approach the sun; you'll be burned up. Similarly, this process it to take daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ. Daivī prakṛti.

Every energy is Kṛṣṇa's energy, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 6.8). Every energy, the material energy also daivī, because it is emanation from the Supreme. May be inferior, but it is energy of the Supreme. Inferior in this sense: by comparison. Otherwise no energy is inferior. Therefore in a higher spiritual sense there is nothing material; everything is spiritual. That is called sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. That is higher sense, not in the lower sense.

So in this way, if we are intelligent enough, if we understand that after many, many births we have to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), why not take it immediately? This is intelligence. If we have to come to that point for making our life perfect to come to Kṛṣṇa and surrender, then why not surrender immediately? Kṛṣṇa is canvassing: sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁśaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is intelligence.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)