721101 - Conversation - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

721101R1-VRNDAVAN - November 01, 1972 - 57:08 Minutes

Acyutānanda: Gauracandra Gosvāmī is telling Prabhupāda that ah, that it started raining just so that the kīrtana would happen in front of Dāmodara and then it stopped raining so that we could go back into the samādhi grounds. Actually he was just trying to get us out of the front courtyard. Prabhupāda said: "Wherever there is . . . whenever there is kīrtana it is in front of Lord Dāmodara."

Ānandamoya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I would like to ask you if it is possible to receive initiation from you.

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that question?

Devotee: Again? Louder.

Ānandamoya: I would like to ask you if it is possible if you can give me initiation?

Prabhupāda: Initiation.

Devotee: Initiation.

Ānandamoya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom you are coming?

Ānandamoya: I have been six months in Calcutta, my home is in France and I met some members of the society some of the disciples in Bihar. I was touring in India with . . . (indistinct) . . . for one year about and fortunately I met some members there near . . . (indistinct) . . . Madhura. Madhuriya . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Madhupur.

Ānandamoya: Madhupur.

Guru Kṛipa: Madhuroy.

Prabhupāda: Madurai.

Guru Kṛipa: It was a large pandal function.

Prabhupāda: He has come with you?

Guru Kṛipa: Yes we met him there. (break)

Yaśodānandana: . . . with us to Cuttack and Māyāpura. And he lived for three. He tried for some time then he followed all the principles and regulations for the last six months and he shaved up his head after a few days and he has been keeping on regularly doing preaching outside every day.

Prabhupāda: So you recommend him?

Gurudasa: Yes we recommend him.

Yaśodānandana: (indistinct) . . . serious.

Prabhupāda: Then . . . (indistinct)

Gurudasa: Bhavānanda has also recommended him.

Yaśodānandana: Also . . . (indistinct) . . . has been initiated by Your Divine Grace a few months ago or a year ago and I think he's very much fit for brāhmin . . . (indistinct) . . . Gāyatrī.

Prabhupāda: So where is he?

Yaśodānandana: A tall boy, Pāñcajanya very tall, tall boy,

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Yaśodānandana: he's the tall boy

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Yaśodānandana: very serious . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ah where he is now?

Yaśodānandana: He is now (break)

Mahāṁsa: Can you tell us something about the philosophy of . . . is there any difference in the philosophies of the four sampradāyas?

Prabhupāda: Not very. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has summarised all the Vaiṣṇava philosophies in acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. Simultaneously one and difference. Some of the philosophers they say māyā and Kṛṣṇa they are different. Some of them says māyā although different is attached with . . . is Kṛṣṇa's . . .

Māyā is Kṛṣṇa's energy therefore different and non-different. Śuddha-advaita, dvaita-advaita, viśiṣṭa-advaita, Madhvācārya dvaita-vāda. Then Rāmānujācārya viśiṣṭa-advaita, Nimbārka dvaita-advaita, in this way there are . . . practically all of them are worshippers of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa. There is not very much difference but little distinction. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu has summarised all of them acintya-bhedābheda-tattva—inconceivable one and different simultaneously.

Māyā is different from Kṛṣṇa at the same time not different from Kṛṣṇa. Because māyā has no separate existence, therefore not different from Kṛṣṇa. But māyā when she plays differently . . . different from Kṛṣṇa. Just like jail department is the criminal department of the government. Therefore this department is not different from the government but that does not mean the government is criminal.

This is the way to understand it. Criminal department is not different from government but that does not mean government is criminal. Similarly māyā is not different from Kṛṣṇa, that does not mean that Kṛṣṇa is under māyā.

Mahāṁsa: He is controlling māyā?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa has got connection with māyā as controller and we have got connection with māyā as controlled,

Mahāṁsa: Controlled.

Prabhupāda: . . . that is the difference. In the broader sense nothing is different from Kṛṣṇa. That is explained in Bhagavad-gītā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na (cā) haṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4) "Everything is resting on Me but I am not there."

The same example, the criminal department he is resting on the government but the government is not criminal. This is called acintya-bhedābheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different—inconceivable by us.

That viśiṣṭādvaita, Rāmānujācārya, he says that, "God māyā and the jīva all together are the absolute truth." That is called viśiṣṭādvaita.

Mahāṁsa: That is the Rāmānujācārya-sampradāya?

Prabhupāda: Yes Rāmānuja. And Madhvācārya dvaita-vāda, "God is different from jīvas and māyā," that is dvaita-vāda. And someone dvaita-advaita, different and non-different like acintya-bhedābheda. In this way different ācāryas have explained the same thing in a very explicit way according to their . . . but all of them are Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

Acyutānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, are all these sampradāyas still bona-fide at the present time?

Prabhupāda: No some of them . . . (indistinct) . . . now Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas there are many Māyāvādīs. (laughs) There are many Māyāvādīs, this Bābājīs they are almost Māyāvādīs. Sahajiyās.

Pañcadraviḍa: In the Bhāgavata it is said that, "Just as the birds fly in the air according to their capacity so the great sages may explain the absolute truth according to their realisation." So is this why the different ācāryas they explain different concepts?

Prabhupāda: Not different concepts, in different ways.

Pañcadraviḍa: Is it because of . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It can be understandable that I have already explained. That the viśiṣṭādvaita, māyā jīva and Kṛṣṇa are taken together, they are one. Diversity in unity, they are all one but there is diversity. The University department, the criminal department, the judicial department there are so many departments of the government but altogether they are one. This is viśiṣṭādvaita.

(break) the Vedic literature say, eko brahma dvitīya nāsti, "There is only one Brahma." sarvaṁ hy etad brahma (Māṇḍūkya Upaniṣad 2), "Everything is Brahma." It is not difficult to understand that this is also government but government is not there. Not that because that if you say this criminal department is also government, that does not mean that the whole governments are criminal. Government is not at all criminal they have nothing to do with the criminality but the department is government.

What do you think? How do you adjust?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well Mahāprabhu he has explained it.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Pañcadraviḍa: Very clearly.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Because the government maintains the criminal department it should not be understood that government is under criminal department, because Kṛṣṇa maintains māyā that does not mean that Kṛṣṇa is under . . . māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayām (SB 1.7.4). Vyāsadeva saw māyā and Kṛṣṇa together.

The māyā is the backside, apāśrayām. Adharma, adharma—irreligiosity is described as the backside of Kṛṣṇa. As I have got my backside, dharma, adharma. The front side of Kṛṣṇa is called dharma, the backside of Kṛṣṇa is adharma. That means adharma is also there in Kṛṣṇa and then . . . because adharma is also maintained by Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is not adharma.

(break) Kṛṣṇa is not adharma the Māyāvādīs philosophers say: "There is no difference between māyā and Kṛṣṇa." There is so many different philosophical opinions but we take Caitanya Mahāprabhu's conclusion: acintya-bhedābheda, simultaneously one and different. Because māyā is maintained by Kṛṣṇa therefore there is no difference between Kṛṣṇa and māyā, but still Kṛṣṇa is not under māyā.

What is the difficulty to understand?

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda when . . .

Prabhupāda: Another example can be given that now there is darkness but the sun is also there, within this universe the sun is there and the darkness is there but sun is not under darkness. At the present moment the darkness is there and the sun is also there. This darkness means absence of sun so it is relative with sun because there is no sun it is darkness.

Therefore the darkness is dependent on sun. The sun is not dependent on the darkness, because there is some barrier, some obstacles, for passing the sunlight on this earth. This earth is now dark, so the darkness has no independent existence. In other words because the sunlight is checked therefore there is darkness. So darkness is not important neither darkness, this darkness can cover the sun. Otherwise darkness is also there and sun is also there but sun is not affected by darkness.

We are affected a portion of the fractional part of Kṛṣṇa's body part and parcel, is covered by darkness. They are under material conditions but Kṛṣṇa is never under material conditions. The Māyāvādī philosophers will say: "Because Kṛṣṇa has come before us".

(door opens) (aside) What is that?

Indian Devotee: (indistinct Hindi) (break)

Prabhupāda: "Because Kṛṣṇa has come here therefore He is also in darkness," that is Māyāvādī philosophy. Suppose the governor goes to inspect the jail the business of governor is also prison, because he has come into the jail. So what is the difference between him and them? Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11), immediately he is already mūḍhāḥ and he becomes more mūḍhāḥ.

He does not know, just like Dr. Radhakrishna says: "It is not to Kṛṣṇa but something within Kṛṣṇa." Because he thinks that Kṛṣṇa is just like us. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa and still he dares to write comment on Kṛṣṇa's saying. He becomes more mūḍhāḥ, instead of becoming enlightened he becomes mūḍhāḥ. Without knowing Kṛṣṇa he describes Kṛṣṇa. So we should not take, what is Kṛṣṇa from such mūḍhāḥ . . . (indistinct) . . . Sanātana Gosvāmī has forbidden—not to hear from the avaiṣṇava who does not know Kṛṣṇa.

avaiṣṇava-mukhodgīrṇaṁ

pūtaṁ hari-kathāmṛtam

śravaṇaṁ naiva kartavyaṁ

(Padma Purāṇa)

"Avaiṣṇava cannot describe Kṛṣṇa. Not . . . or neither by his description one can understand Kṛṣṇa."

Yaśodānandana: What about that Ramakrishna? When I was in South India I met many people they seemed to place so much faith upon him. But seeing this philosophy that they are propounding it is not so much sound. This Ramakrishna, what is the fate of such kind of person? What is the actual fate? Destination?

Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna?

Yaśodānandana: Hm.

Prabhupāda: Mission?

Yaśodānandana: Hm.

Prabhupāda: So if you go to a quock .

Devotees: (laugh) . . . (indistinct)

Guru Kṛipa: Quack?

(laugher)

Prabhupāda: That is your misfortune there are many doctors but . . . if you still go to a quack.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: What is that? That is your misfortune, why do you go to a quack? If there are so many doctors.

(laughter)

Yaśodānandana: He has misled so many people.

Prabhupāda: Everyone, misleading is there already but why should you be misled?

Yaśodānandana: I am not misled.

Prabhupāda: No I mean to say the person who is misled. And his question is, "What is the value of this." You are misled, he is misleader, what to talk about this? And if we talk and if we tell the truth then people will be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na śāntaye (Hitopadeśa 3.4), "You cannot pacify a rascal by giving good instruction. He will be more angry. Better avoid."

Gurudasa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurudasa: You said: "By his description he cannot be understood." Do you mean by adhokṣaja?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurudasa: You said: "By his description he cannot be understood."

Prabhupāda: By his description.

Gurudasa: You were just saying that.

Prabhupāda: Adhokṣaja means you cannot describe, by your sense perception. We describe that this is a thing, we can describe this is white this is . . . solid, this is just like, so many things we can say by seeing by tasting. Kṛṣṇa is not like that, therefore His name is Adhokṣaja.

Because you can describe this things material because it is material, but Kṛṣṇa is not material, therefore by our material senses we cannot describe. Whatever we are describing about Kṛṣṇa we are describing from Kṛṣṇa. Not that by our knowledge we are describing—therefore He is Adhokṣaja.

He cannot be described by my blunt senses. That is not. We describe Kṛṣṇa as He describes Himself. We don't describe by our sense perception. We say Kṛṣṇa is the supreme because we understand from Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the supreme."Now argument may be that everyone can say: "I am supreme." Then everyone should be accepted by his word, no. It must be confirmed by the ācāryas that is paramparā system.

Kṛṣṇa says: "Supreme" and Kṛṣṇa is confirmed as supreme by Vyāsadeva, by Nārada, by the ācāryas, by Caitanya so we are poor fellow we understand in this way. What is the difficulty? Kṛṣṇa says "I am supreme," and He is accepted by our predecessor ācāryas so where is the difficulty? Hm?

Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I raise a question?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: In the fourth chapter in the fifth Canto it explains about Vyāsadeva's appearance and it says that when Vyāsa appeared there was an interchange of the millennium where the third millennium appeared before the second, ah and I never understood that.

Prabhupāda: Dvāpara. dvāparānte, dvāparānte means in the beginning of the Dvāpara-yuga. Dvāparānte . . . (indistinct)

Devotee: It says that, that ah, there was an interchange of the millennium's.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: Where the third millennium appeared before the second millennium.

Prabhupāda: Hm . . . yes.

Devotee: When Vyāsa made his appearance.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . dvāpara means the second millennium, and tretā means the third millennium. So in the beginning of dvāpara He appeared, ante. The example is given, just like the tree begins from the root and the top of the tree is called top—but actually there is no top, the top is the root. So it is beginning from there, in this way there are some descriptions.

(aside) How long it will remain so? No light? (break)

Devotee: . . . the founder of Raghu-vaṁśa so I just wanted to. I was wondering, you know we chant this prayer from Caitanya-caritāmṛta, rāma rāghava, rāma rāghava.

Prabhupāda: Rāma rāghava.

Devotee: Rāma rāghava, rāma rāghava.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Devotee: That rāghava does that mean raghu-vaṁśa. raghu dynasty?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rāghava, raghu from raghu rāghava comes.

Devotee: So which end Balarāma or Lord Rāmacandra?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: Is that prayer to Balarāma or is it to Lord Rāmacandra? The Rāma of the raghu?

Prabhupāda: No when you say rāma rāghava, means Lord Rāmacandra. Therefore it is said rāma rāghava.

Devotee: rāma rāghava

Acyutānanda: In Hyderabad that was a conjecture that Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

(aside) Why don't you open that? Eh? Hm?

Acyutānanda: That Hare Rāma does it mean Rādhā Ramana or does it mean Balarāma?

Prabhupāda: No. Rāma. Hare Rāma. Rāma means—who enjoys, enjoyer, ramante. Ramante yogino 'nante satyānande cid-ātmani iti rāma (Cc Madhya 9.29). Rāma means Ramaṇa also—enjoyer. Rāma means Lord Rāmacandra, Rāma means Balarāma so different positions we can accept. Different.

Devotee: Also someone . . .

Prabhupāda: You say Rādhā-Ramaṇa.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You can say Rādhā-Rāma—the same meaning. Rādhā-Ramaṇa or Rādhā-Rāma now if even Lord Rāma can come Rādhā.

Acyutānanda: Many people say that Rādhārānī does not appear in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is no mention.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Acyutānanda: Yes. (break) I once heard you explain to somebody where this is mentioned exactly.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Ārādhyate, anayārādhyate, when the gopīs saw that Kṛṣṇa had been separated with Rādhārānī then they understood that She worships Kṛṣṇa more than anyone. So the gopī who worships Kṛṣṇa, satisfies Kṛṣṇa more than others that is Rādhārānī. Ārādhate, ārādhyate it is Rādhā, Rādhā, ārādhyate.

Devotee: Hmm . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So the gopī who worships Rādhārānī more than the other gopīs he sees Rādhārānī. So why, how can you say that there is no mention of Rādhārānī?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: We have to follow.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not some of the people, we follow the Gosvāmīs the ācāryas.

(whispering)

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, about three months I wrote to you about a man who wanted to donate some land to us in Bihar?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: About 25 acres.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee: He's just written to me again today about that. He says: "My dear Śrī Swamiji, I received your letter dated the 21st of September 1972 along with the documents enclosed there with. I send you my constitution rules, regulations, memorandum of association . . .

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Devotee: . . . tax exemptions form.

I will be extremely happy to donate land for construction of the temple, its upkeep and devotional activities of your society. The government of Bihar has in the meanwhile promulgated an ordinance banning transfer of lands. I however hope that the difficulties created by this ordinance through Lord Kṛṣṇa's grace can be overcome. The land can be transferred with the permission of the collector Sahabad but some one on behalf of the society will have to approach him for this commission.

I would be obliged if you could send me a list of life members of the society. Could you also send me a copy of the latest annual statement of income and expenditures of your . . . of the society. This will enable me to have some idea of the society's financial position and it's activities. Yours in the service of the Lord, L. Dayal."

Prabhupāda: First of all find out man, who is managing there?

Devotee: That is the problem. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: You can have many lands like that . . . 25 acres of land?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We can accept land anywhere provided we have got bona-fide preachers. That is our mission, we can start a centre anywhere provided we can preach. That is our mission, it is not our mission to own some land. What we shall do with the land?

Devotee: The land would simply be for farming and earning some income . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Anyway. Income is not our mission, our mission is to preach. Income is required to maintain, so suppose we get some land we must be a preaching centre there. Even we do farm we cannot avoid our preaching work.

Devotee: This land is situated by a small village it is not a populated area.

Prabhupāda: It may be. It may not be a populated here . . . area, but we must have a centre so that people may come there.

Devotee: Yes he wants a small temple there so that the local people may come and benefit by the temple activities.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we require a preacher.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: At least one two preachers.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So then we . . . so who is prepared to go there? And then preach you do not know the language. How you will preach? They won't be able to understand English.

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: Then how you will preach? First of all find out a preacher, 1, 2, 3, 4 preachers that's it. Then we can manage. Otherwise what is the use of taking land? Preaching must be there, or are you going to plough on that land?

(laughter)

Devotee: No.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: Then? Then what is the use?

Acyutānanda: Jayapatāka.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: Jayapatāka Mahārāja has been there.

Prabhupāda: Jayapatāka . . . (indistinct) . . . side-by-side he is supervising the building construction and at the same time . . . that's nice. But he has not gone there to plough.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is not his business.

Acyutānanda: Somebody said Jayapatāka Ali.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) who said?

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Acyutānanda: Tamal Kṛṣṇa Goswami.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of Ali?

Acyutānanda: Because all the Mohammedan's there, there name is Ali. And there the culture is agriculturalist. So he is ploughing next to them side-by-side. So Tamal Kṛṣṇa Goswami said Jayapatāka Ali.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: Alī means the gopī.

Acyutānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Then Tamal Kṛṣṇa has blessed him to become one of the gopīs.

(laughter)

Acyutānanda: Yeah.

Gurudasa: Alī-Kṛṣṇa like Kāliya-Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yeah.

Yaśodānandana: What is the diff . . .

Prabhupāda: Jaya rādhā-mādhava . . .

Acyutānanda: One of the Mohammedan farmers there . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Acyutānanda: . . . was describing how he met Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. He used to walk into the Mohammedan village and he said when he was a little boy he patted him on the head.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Acyutānanda: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī patted him on the head. And he said that, "Wherever Bhaktisiddhānta used to sit down it seemed like the whole scenery was centred around him. He was so magnificent." He was telling. He tied up his cloth like a sannyāsī and he showed how he used to walk into the village. "He wouldn't look at anything directly but he would be looking at a distance," he was explaining.

Pañcadraviḍa: I understand they liked him very much because he would even take water from the hands of Mohammedan's . . .

Prabhupāda: But what is their attitude towards our men?

Acyutānanda: Very nice.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Acyutānanda: In fact this Mohammedan's father owned the land which is on Śrīvāsa-āṅgan and he gave it to Bhaktisiddhānta free because they had lots of land at that time. So he gave it to Bhaktisiddhānta

Prabhupāda: So they are coming and taking prasādam?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Both men and women?

Acyutānanda: Yes. They say Hare Kṛṣṇa to us.

Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. That is our mission chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and take prasādam and go home.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: . . . and if you like you can stay with us, as you like.

Acyutānanda: Ah.

Devotee: It is very sublime.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee: It is very sublime.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Before starting this movement I was always thinking that their Communist Party, there are so many political parties and we cannot form any party? Our method is so nice: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa dance and take prasādam. What is the difficulty in forming a party?

Hare Kṛṣṇa party, so now it has come in formation to expand this formation. Please come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa dance and take prasādam. What is the difficulty? And gradually when he is settled up he will understand the philosophy whatever . . . (indistinct) . . . in the beginning he will not understand. What is that, a mouse?

Devotees: A mouse.

Yaśodānandana: It sat under your feet then she went away.

(laughter)

Pañcadraviḍa: How does a mahā-bhāgavata see this kind of a mouse?

Prabhupāda: A living entity.

Pañcadraviḍa: As a part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes and actually it is so. He has got a different dress only. Suppose there are many gentlemen we don't see the dress you see so many gentlemen that is all. Don't discriminate them because one has got different dress from another. Is it not?

Similarly, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18) paṇḍitāḥ who is learned he sees everyone is Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel but he is playing differently, just like an actor on the stage by different dress playing . . . (indistinct) . . . otherwise they are one.

Mahāṁsa: When the part and parcel is acting very much in ignorance and suppose like for example it is trying to take away your prasādam or it is trying to bite you or something like that then . . .

Prabhupāda: You take care.

Pañcadraviḍa: You can defend?

Prabhupāda: That's all. But you must see that he is part and parcel. Just like your child suppose he is doing something mischief do you discard him? You take care of him. And you take care that the child may not commit any mischief. That is your duty but you cannot say, "Because this child is creating some disturbance cut his throat." You cannot say that.

Mahāṁsa: Whew. So if there are mosquitoes who are troubling.

Prabhupāda: Same way.

Mahāṁsa: Same . . .

Prabhupāda: If there is mosquitoes you have a mosquito carton but you cannot kill them. That is the principal.

Mahāṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Anyone, you take precautions you have got human brain, you take precaution that they may not create mischief. But they by nature they have got a body of like that—but because they have a different body you cannot kill them. Although it is said when one is an aggressor, you can kill.

But these animals although they aggress they have no intelligence. The same example, a child is committing mischief. Because it has no intelligence and because it has no intelligence therefore you cannot kill. That should be our position, these animals even ferocious animals, they are all different parts and parcels of God Kṛṣṇa, you should see like that. But because they are under different . . . if you look they are all divine. So if you know them that they are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa but behave with them differently as far as possible not by killing.

Killing means, he has been given a body to undergo the imprisonment for certain time if you kill then you prolong the time he has to again accept that body. You become criminal therefore because you are checking in his business. By nature's way he has been engaged in a certain type of business if you kill, he is not killed but he has to take another body. Therefore you are checking his progress, just like you cannot interfere with anyone prisoner that is criminal.

So many laws of nature, laws of God they are so fine that imperceptibly we are committing so many sinful activities but if you keep yourself surrendered to Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness Kṛṣṇa protects you but you become subjected to criminality, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣya (BG 18.66).

Suppose you are walking on the street you are killing so many animals, but a devotee he is protected by Kṛṣṇa who is non-devotee is becoming subjected to that criminal action--killing. That is the difference. You are killing also, an ordinary man also killing but you are killing not knowingly, you are going on Kṛṣṇa's business for preaching. So you are killing but because you are going to Kṛṣṇa's business Kṛṣṇa is protecting you from the sinful reaction. That is the difference, but the sinful reaction is there, either the devotee or non-devotee.

But the devotee willingly does not do any sinful activity. If there is some sinful activity in the course of his business then he is protected by Kṛṣṇa, that is the difference. Therefore the conclusion is to save oneself from all kinds of nonsense sinful activities one must become Kṛṣṇa consciousness otherwise he is subject to criminality. This is the conclusion. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious he is subject to so many criminal activities he suffers. Even knowingly or unknowingly.

So, kṛṣṇa nāma koro bhai ar sab miche, palai bar path nai Yama ache piche. (Oh brother, please chant the holy name of Kṛṣṇa, there is no escape as Yamarāja is waiting behind.) Yamarāja is noting down, "Ah he has done . . . (indistinct) . . . sinful activities you have to punished." You do not know, just like the police takes note of your car, next day you have to go to the court, "Oh I did not know." And it happened. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So we have no other alternative than to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, otherwise you will be foiled by police actions so many ways, so many times. Tell them frankly.

Mahāṁsa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: That if you don’t become Kṛṣṇa conscious then your life is doomed. However you may be learned and very scholarly, palai bar path nai Yama ache piche. (There is no escape as Yamarāja is waiting behind.) He is noting down.

Devotee: One might say a devotee . . .

Prabhupāda: Neither you can commit sinful activities because Kṛṣṇa is . . .

Devotee: Sin. Yes.

Prabhupāda: No that is also another sin.

Devotee: Aparādha to the Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving you protection for your criminal activities which are being done in the course of executing Kṛṣṇa's order or unknowingly, that is not your fault. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is giving protection.

But if you think, "Let me do something criminal for my sense gratification Kṛṣṇa is there he will protect me," oh that is the greatest criminality. Namno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ, that is not excused.

Mahāṁsa: Sometimes a devotee falls into māyā, does Kṛṣṇa protect him then?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He'll protect. If he is actually . . . but if he is cheating Kṛṣṇa.

Mahāṁsa: Knowingly?

Prabhupāda: Knowingly, he is going to some sinful activities and he is cheating his spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, "Oh I'm going to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then that is cheating, you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa that is not possible, that is not possible.

Mahāṁsa: He is only cheating himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you cannot cheat Kṛṣṇa. Just like Hiraṇyakaśipu he wanted to cheat Kṛṣṇa he'll not die, but he cheated himself. He forgot to ask for one benediction that, "I shall not die on the lap of Hiraṇya."

(laughter)

Devotee: Nṛsiṁhadeva.

Prabhupāda: Err . . . Nṛsiṁhadeva. That he forgot.

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: But Kṛṣṇa made him forgetful, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca. (BG 15.15) While he was speaking playing tricks, Kṛṣṇa played a trick, that he forgot to ask for this benediction, apohanaṁ ca. So this is the explanation, people ask that how Kṛṣṇa makes one forgetful?

He has got some business to make him forgetful. It is not without purpose, just like Hiraṇyakaśipu was forgetful to ask this benediction that, "I shall not die even on the lap of Nṛsiṁhadeva." That how you can do? There are so many tricks of Kṛṣṇa and how many you can remember?

(laughter)

Prabhupāda: Is not possible.

Mahāṁsa: (indistinct) . . . on the hand or anywhere I heard.

Prabhupāda: But these rascals they think that, "We are more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa."

Devotee: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: That is illusion. He is never more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. That is his position. But he thinks that he is more intelligent than Kṛṣṇa. That is illusion. He thinks that by this way I shall play a trick with Kṛṣṇa but that is impossible.

You cannot play a trick with Kṛṣṇa, that is not possible. You cannot, you must be very clean and open to Kṛṣṇa's sincere servant that is our business, then all protection will be there.

Devotee: What if someone wants to do service to Kṛṣṇa but is it okay for me to do this service if I must exploit my Godbrother? There's no need . . . does it matter if I hurt my Godbrother, if Kṛṣṇa is protecting me, there will not be any reaction?

Prabhupāda: Well how can you exploit your Godbrother? He is also engaged in some Kṛṣṇa's business, so how can you exploit? Your Godbrother is not an ordinary human being, he is also serving the Lord. How you can exploit another servitor for your advancement? That is sense gratification.

There is no question of exploiting, as soon as there is question of exploiting that is sense gratification. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as exploitation, simply cooperation and appreciation. That is spiritual world. Instead of exploitation there should be exaltation.

Devotee: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: "Oh my Godbrother is so nice, he is doing so much service." This is not envy, in the material world if somebody does something more than oneself, he is envious. "Oh he is doing nice."

There is no enviousness there is open acceptance so, "My Godbrother or this devotee is so nice, he is doing so nicely how he can do it?" That is appreciation and exaltation, that is Vaikuṇṭha world. You cannot become envious.

Mahāṁsa: Is there also competition in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Mahāṁsa: Competition?

Prabhupāda: Yes competition just like here, "Oh . . . (indistinct) . . . this devotee has advanced so much I cannot do, let me follow his footsteps so then I can do." That's not competition.

Asun. Kothay chilen etodin? (Please come. Where had you been all these days?) (break)

Indian man: . . . asustha. (sick.)

Prabhupāda: Buro hoye asche. Sharir sob . . . bolchena. (Getting old. The body is . . . not telling that.)

Indian man: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Khali Rupa gosvamir mato ekta choto kapar porlei rupanuga hoy na. (You don't become Rupanuga just by wearing a short cloth like Rupa Goswami.)

Indian man: Oh. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Tader ye samasta katha seguli sob mante hoy. (You need to follow their instructions.)

Indian man: Mante hoy. (Yes, I need to follow.)

Prabhupāda: Tobe rupanuga hoy. (Then you become Rupanuga.)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct Bengali) (break)

Prabhupāda: Er chobi ache. (I have his photo.) (break)

Indian man: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Besh bhalo. (Very good.)

Indian man: (indistinct) . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Eije . . . ei Philippine er dol. (The group from the Philippines.)

Indian man: Huh.

Prabhupāda: Era juto sob . . . tin mile . . . chere esche . . . ora. (All the shoes . . . three miles . . . left here . . . it's they.)

Indian man: Tomar meye . . . (indistinct) . . . Yamuna athaba Mahaprabhu. (Your daughter . . . (indistinct) . . . Yamuna or Mahaprabhu.)

Prabhupāda: Huh.

Indian man: Yamunar oi par tay sabai khub sundar sundar. (On the other side of Yamuna all their faces are beautiful) . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Sakole sundar. (Everyone is beautiful.) (break)

Prabhupāda: Sometime maybe.

Gurudasa: Alternating current.

Prabhupāda: Neh.

Gurudasa: Alternating on and off.

Indian man: Prabhupader photo (The photo of Prabhupāda) . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: What?

Indian Devotee: Photo, photo. Of Prabhupāda . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Have you got any photograph of my Guru Mahārāja?

Indian Devotee: . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Galpo ache, yes no very good. Janen? (Do you know there is a story—yes, no, very good?)

Indian Devotee: Han.

Prabhupāda: Janen? Galpo? (You know the story?)

Indian Devotee: Han?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no, very good.

Indian Devotee: (laughs) (laughter)

Indian Devotee: Asun, basun, plet anun, glass anun. (Please come sit here. Bring some plates, bring glasses.) (break)

Prabhupāda: I shall speak in both Hindi and Bengali. Ekjan khansana, se deshe yabe. (One butler, he was to go to his village home.) One servant of the European . . . he was to go to home, so. Tar ekta badli dite hobe, sei chakar ra sob bodli dito na? (He was to make one substitute ready who will work in his place during his leave.) So he has to give one man to represent him to work. So he says that, "How can I work for you?" Ami tomar jaygate ki kore kaj korbo? Amito engreji janina. (How can I work in your place? I don't know English.) “I will teach you, I will teach you English don’t bother.” Ami shikhiye debo. (I will teach you.) "Now what is that?" Tinte katha sekhabo. (You just learn three words.) "Just learn three words." "What is that?" Ki? (What?) "Yes, no, very good."

(laughter)

Devotee: Very simple.

Indian Devotee: Yes, no, very good.

Prabhupāda: Yes, no, very good. Sir yeta bolbe tumi "yes" bolbe. Tarpor ya bolbe "no". Tarpor ya bolbe "very good". (Whatever sir will ask, just reply "Yes". After that, whatever he replies you say "No". After that, whatever he says you reply "Very good") So he taught him three words that, “When you’re master will say something first you say: 'Yes' ". Khali "yes". (Only "Yes".) Tarpor yodi kichu bole, bolbe "no". Tarpore yodi . . . (If he says something more, then you say: "No", even after that.) . . . "And if he again speaks something then say: 'Very good' ". So he learned three words, yes no very good. So after, o yakhan cole geche. Ekdin saheber ghar theke kichu jinish khuje pacche na. (so when that person went on leave, one day his boss was searching for something in his room.) He was missing something so he asked the servant, "Where is my that thing, you have taken?" "Yes" (laughter) Eke jijnes korlo yei, ami ei jinishta dekhte pacchina tumi niyecho ki? Se bollo "yes". Mane to janena. (He asked him, "I couldn't find that thing, have you taken that?" He replied "Yes." He doesn't know the meaning.) Yes. He does not know, "Now if you have taken it then return it here". "No". (laughter) Yodi niye thako niye aso ekhane rakho. "No". (If you have taken that then bring it here. " No".) "Then I’m giving you to the Police." "Very good." (laughter)

So when the Police came. Yakhan Police elo, takhon se . . . eta ki? Takhan bollo yao tumi er sange. To eto katha chilo na. Amito cakri korte eschilam. (When the Police came, he thought," What is this?" They said go with the Police now, and he was thinking this was not supposed to happen, so I came here to do my service.) I came here to serve now am going to the Police. So, yes no very good. (laughter)

Formally when the Britishers came here they required assistance they could not bring so many Britishers. They had to manage office so any man, simply, "Yes, no, very good," he would get a service. (break) (end)