720711 - Conversation with Sumati Morarjee - London

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720711R1-LONDON - July 11, 1972 - 46:53 Minutes

Sumati Morarjee: Kaise ho ap aj aye? Hume pata hai . . . (indistinct) . . . mujhe abhi bola inhone ke ap aj ane wale hai. Ap aj ane wale hai. Ye London me hi hai. (How are you, have you come today? I knew it . . . (indistinct) . . . he told me just now that you are going to come today. He is in London.)

Prabhupāda: Accha, bohot khushi hui. Juhu to apka hi hai. (Okay. I am very happy to see you. Anyway Juhu belongs to you only.)

Sumati Morarjee: Ha ji. Mai usko bulati hu na, apka waha Giriraj hai usko. To abhi duble kaise ho gaye? (Yes. I call him, your Giriraja who stays there. So how did you become so lean?)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct) . . . kha nahi sakte. Old liver ho gaya. Hajam nahi hota. (. . . (indistinct) . . . can't eat anything. The liver has become old. Digestion isn't functioning.)

Sumati Morarjee: Kyu? To kya khate ho? Dusre kuch khate nahi?) (Why? So what do you eat then? Don't you eat anything else?)

Prabhupāda: Zyada thoda fruit khate hai. Dusra khane se hajam nahi hota. Dudh pite hai. Dudh bhi thik hajam nahi hota. Gas ho jata hai. Wahi thoda bohot fruit . . . (I eat some fruits. Any other thing is not digestible for me. I drink milk but I cannot digest even that properly. Gas formation takes place. Little bit of fruits, that's all . . .)

Sumati Morarjee: Ha wo to hai abhi. Nahi, bohot nahi hoga abhi. Gas ho jata hai. To ap dudh me wo kyu nahi dalte ho? (That is true. You can't digest too much milk. Gas formation takes place. So why don't you add something in your milk?)

Prabhupāda: Kya? Kya? (What? What?) Dry powder or . . . ? Thoda sa. Jaisa pau, der pau. Accha. (Little bit. One glass, one and a half glasses.)

Sumati Morarjee: Ek tukda adarak ka. Jab dudh garam karne ko rakhe to usko barikh karke ekdum . . . wo koi bhi, yaha nahi milta to dry. To usme thoda dalke ap shakkar dalte ho? Thodi si shakkar dalke usko garam karo. Aur usme apni ye masale jo haldi nahi ati nahi to kesar. Do me se ek. Wo dalke, aur thoda garam karke aur dhak rakho phir aisa bohot kuchalke aur phir chahiye to ap piyo sadharan garam. Ha bas ek glass dudh hoga . . . glass me kitna, ek chota sa yaha chimchi rehti hai na. Wo ye lete hai rai bhi. Nahi, mustard ke liye. Bas ek choti si chimchi andar ye daliye adarak, wo sukha powder aur thoda sa ye daliye kesar aur usko accha garam karke thodi . . . (One piece of ginger. When you put the milk for boiling, cut it into very fine pieces . . . anything will do, if it is not available here then dry powder can be used. So after adding it in milk, do you add sugar? Add a little bit of sugar and heat it. Then there are spices like turmeric or saffron. Any one between the two. Add it, then heat the milk and cover it, then you can crush it very nicely and drink the milk at a normal temperature. One glass of milk will do . . . how much, only one small spoon that we have. That we use to take mustard. Add one small spoon of ginger, that dry powder and saffron, then heat it nicely.)

Prabhupāda: (to Śyāmasundara) You understand what is kesar? Kesar is saffron. Saffron.

Sumati Morarjee: You know saffron? When you prepare milk from Swāmījī, you got dry ginger powder, put a little, and little saffron.

Śyāmasundara: Saffron.

Sumati Morarjee: And sugar. And heat it, and keep it some time, and then properly mix it, and then . . . not very cold or anything. Little hot you'll give it to him, and that will improve his digestion. Because this sort of gas trouble won't be there, due to age, with this.

Prabhupāda: Our example, gosāi, gosvāmī, all the gosvāmīs . . . let me speak in English.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: The gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, they're nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau.

Sumati Morarjee: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Nidrā āhāra vihāra. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca rādhā-kṛṣṇa-padāravinda-bhajanānandena mattālikau. Āhāra nidrā. Ye sab ahara nidra, ye sab chod diya. Vijita. Jaya kar liya. Usko jaya nahi kar sakte. (They gave up this sleeping and eating. Vijita. They conquered it. It is not possible to conquer.) Āhāra nidrā . . . vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau ca yau. The Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, he was, at that time, five hundred years ago, his father's income was twelve lakhs of rupees.

Sumati Morarjee: I know Jīva Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, or Rūpa, Sanātana.

Prabhupāda: Rūpa-Sanātana was minister, minister.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I know. And that you know, those other two also, what is their name? They were also very high up.

Prabhupāda: Rāmānanda Rāya?

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Rāmānanda Rāya.

Prabhupāda: He was governor.

Sumati Morarjee: And Ācārya?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhaṭṭa . . . Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya.

Sumati Morarjee: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: You have read in my books, Teachings of Lord Caitanya?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, the whole Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Caitanya's life, and all that, it is written by Prabhodatta brahmacārī.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: I have read that.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Hindi.

Sumati Morarjee: Hindi.

Revatīnandana: We stayed in his āśrama in Allahabad . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, so . . .

Devotee: . . . Prabhodatta brahmacārī's āśrama.

Sumati Morarjee: To ap ye uska translation kar rahe hai? Caitanya-caritāmṛta ka? (So are you translating it? Of Caitanya-caritāmṛta?)

Prabhupāda: Kiska? Cai . . . to hai. (Which one? Cai . . . that is there already.) Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Show him.

Śyāmasundara: TLC.

Prabhupāda: Our latest books can be shown. All the books. You have got this book?

Sumati Morarjee: No. Swāmījī ap ne to bohot kiya hai. Abhi ap chale mat jana, pura kam karna. Kyu apne jo kiya hai na aisa dusra jaldi nahi karega. Ye badi se apki niche murti bohot sundar hai. Bohot. Us din mai arti me ai thi. (Swāmījī, you have done a lot. Just don't leave right now, complete the mission first. This is because no one can do what you have done in such a short time. The big Deity downstairs is very beautiful. I came for ārtī that day.) (Śyāmasundara explains about books to gentleman in background)

Prabhupāda: Apka Baba, Ma ka ashirvad hai. Ap log sab bata dijiye. Nahi humara Bombay ka murti bhi bohot sundar hai. Bohot sundar. To ap log sab mil karke sab mandir-vandir banaiye. (The blessings of my parents are with me. You all can tell. Our Deities in Bombay are also very beautiful. Very beautiful. So you all cooperatively build the temple.)

Sumati Morarjee: Bohot sundar. Wo to ban raha hai par ap chale mat jana. Kyu ki wo to aisa hai na ap to sant ho. Humari bat alag hai. Hum log to yaha duniya me phase huye hai. Ap sant ho.To sant ki bat to alag hai. (Very beautiful. That is already under construction but you don't go away. Because you are a saint. Our case is different. We are trapped in this material world. You are a saint. So a saint is completely different.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi ap to sant ka sevika hai. Ap to pehle humko ane to diya tha tabhi to hua tha. Apke pas maine pahucha jo ap humko jane dijiye to ap bohot anand se humko diya tha jane ko. (No, but I am a servant of that saint. You only allowed me to come here so this has happened. When I approached you for allowing me to go, then you joyfully gave me the permission.)

Sumati Morarjee: Wo alag bat hai Swāmījī. Par aisa hai na ke jo ap kar sakte ho . . . khari bat. Us din bolti thi . . . arrey mere ko to badi chinta ho gayi thi ap gaye jab. Maine to ek accha brahman kula Captain hoga uska . . . Captain Pandia us din aya tha wo? Abhi aya tha mere ko milke. Ha, bohot sajjan. Banaras ke hai na, Gita. To abhi ayi thi mere pas. (That is a different thing. But the thing is what you can do . . . perfectly true. I was saying that day . . . I was extremely worried when you left. I thought that a nice brahmin Captain would be . . . didn't Captain Pandia come that day? He came to meet me recently. Yes, a great gentleman. He is from Banaras, Gītā. She also came to meet me.)

Prabhupāda: Wo Pandia khub . . . Pandia aur unko patni. Ladki, wo bohot . . . Gita. (Pandia was extremely . . . Pandia and his wife. His daughter, she was very . . . Gītā.) She is very nice. And she is a good astrologer.

Sumati Morarjee: O mere ko nahi malum. (Oh, I do not know.)

Prabhupāda: That little girl, young girl, she saw my palm, and she said: "Swāmījī, if you can surpass seventy-one years, then you will live hundred years." (laughter) And on seventy-first year I was . . .

Sumati Morarjee: . . . (indistinct) . . . bohot accha hai. Ap ka movement bohot accha chalega. Ye to bohot acchi bat boli hai. (. . . (indistinct) . . . that is very nice. Your movement will continue very nicely. This is a very nice thing that she has said.) I know. Ap bohot bimar ho gaye the. Ha bohot gaya tha parishram. (You were extremely sick. Yes, a lot of hard work had to be done.)

Prabhupāda: Bohot bimar ho gaya tha. Wo to death hi tha. Wo to khali Bhagavan bacha liya . . . (I was extremely sick. It was factually death. By God's grace I was saved . . .) very strong heart attack in New York. I fell down, heart attack. Parishram bohot hua tha. Din rat parishram kiya. To ab idhar lekin jagah nahi hai. Jagah, ye place bada important hai. Important hai, baki accommodation . . . (a lot of hard work had to be done. I toiled day and night. But we don't have sufficient space here. This place is very important. It is important but accommodation . . .) we have no sufficient accommodation.

Sumati Morarjee: Nahi, accha nahi hai. Maine wahi us din dekha to inko bola ki jagah. Bohot accha hai. (No, it is not good. I told them that day about the lack of space. The location is very good.) Hall is very small.

Prabhupāda: To idhar bhi ek mandir banana hai accha. (So, a nice temple has to be built here.) Therefore I am asking them. So, some gentlemen here, they say that, "You try, money will be raised here. It will be not difficult." So I'm asking that find out some place.

Sumati Morarjee: To kaha ap dhundhoge? Wo apka ye cathedral ka kya hua? (Where are you going to search? What happened to that cathedral?)

Prabhupāda: Three hundred million dollars . . . ah, three hundred million pounds?

Sumati Morarjee: Pounds.

Śyāmasundara: What did he say?

Dhanañjaya: What is this?

Prabhupāda: That, er . . .

Dhanañjaya: Kingsway Hall? Two and a half million pounds.

Sumati Morarjee: Kingsway House.

Śyāmasundara: Two and a half million pounds. Kingsway Hall.

Prabhupāda: Still it is open.

Dhanañjaya: No, no. It's gone to a businessman. We, we offered one and a half million pounds, and it went to the businessman for two and a half million pounds.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Revatīnandana: They asked three million.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Revatīnandana: They asked for three million pounds, and they got two and a half million for it . . . (indistinct) . . . half million pounds.

Śyāmasundara: It's just around the corner.

Revatīnandana: It's a very nice place, but I couldn't imagine . . .

Sumati Morarjee: To yaha mil sakta hai aisa jagah? (So, can you find such a place here?)

Prabhupāda: Ha mil sakta hai. Jagah bohot hai. Wo church bhi hai par rupaya kaha hai humare pas. Rupaya to jo kuch thoda dhukta hai, kitab chapa deta hu. (Yes, we can find it. There is plenty available. There is that church also but where is the money? Whatever money comes, I print books with that.)

Sumati Morarjee: Wo to ap bohot bada kam kar rahe ho. (This is a very great work you are doing.)

Revatīnandana: So Mātājī's . . . if some of these books she hasn't got, we can give her. She's our Life Member.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, just now I am.

Prabhupāda: She is life . . . she is life after life. (laughter) She is life after life member.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, but I'll talk to this, ah, Girirāja in Bombay about becoming the patron myself.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: I said, "Let us see."

Prabhupāda: We . . . let us form a trustee, and you become the president of the Trust. (laughter) You become the president of the trustee, and do the needful.

Sumati Morarjee: You know, just now that your . . .

Prabhupāda: So, whether you agree to this or not?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Immediately make her the president of the trustee, or Girirāja.

Sumati Morarjee: No, you see.

Prabhupāda: Girirāja is also very nice boy.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, everyday he is there, because he says: "I want you . . ."

Prabhupāda: You like him?

Sumati Morarjee: He's a good man.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Sumati Morarjee: "I want your advice." So first day I called him, he came. I said: "You I don't want. Where is that Śyāmasundara?" (laughter)

Prabhupāda: His father is very rich man.

Sumati Morarjee: Is he?

Prabhupāda: His father is a very big lawyer, and mother, father, both came to me Calcutta. Mother, after all mother, she was crying, that "Give me back my boy." (laughter) So I, "You can take away your boy." So anyway, they are very good gentlemen. So . . . but he has . . . he's graduate in psychology. He's learned.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, he's a very nice man. So I asked him just now, I'm running a school. I said: "You come and, uh, give lecture," mean some stories . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside) Why don't you give some fruits?

Sumati Morarjee: . . . to the children. No, I will take this. You give me a piece of paper, can you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not.

Sumati Morarjee: And I'll take this for the children.

Dhanañjaya: Isn't there some prasāda also, that's still out there in the . . .

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, you give me . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara.

Śyāmasundara: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Immediately write one letter to Girirāja that, uh, I'll suggest some names for becoming trustee, or you can suggest some of the Life Members you know.

Sumati Morarjee: I know so many, but . . . ap suggest kariye. Ap Bombay kabhi ane wale ho? Abhi ap kitna din rahoge? Accha Swāmījī ap yaha kitna din . . . (you suggest. When are you coming to Bombay? How many days are you going to stay here? Okay Swāmījī, how many days . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bombay thoda idhar ka kam dekh-dakh ke jayenge. Ap dekhiye na, humko ghumne dijjiye. Jaisa ap ne pehle force lagaya na. Starting apne to diya, to humko ghumne dijiye. (I will go to Bombay after checking out the work here. You look after it and let me keep touring. Just like you put an effort in the beginning. You made the start so let me go on a tour.)

Sumati Morarjee: Ha to ap yaha kitne din theherne wale ho? Bas. Phir. October me ap kaha hoge? (Okay, so how many days are you going to stay here? That's all. Then. Where are you going to be in October?)

Prabhupāda: Jaise ek mahina. (Around one month.) Paris. Maybe Nairobi. Then either Los Angeles or to India. October me to zarur India me jayenge. Udhar Los Angeles me ek makan kharidna hai. (In October, I will surely go to India. We have to buy an apartment in Los Angeles.) Because whatever that Māyāpur . . . you have been in Nava . . . Navadvīpa?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have been to Navadvīpa, Māyāpur, Śāntipura, then that Katwa. All those places I have visited.

Prabhupāda: So Māyāpur we are constructing a big temple. And Vṛndāvana also. So, for maintenance of the temple perpetually, I want to purchase some property in Los Angeles, because here, Los Angeles, property gets nice income.

Sumati Morarjee: Is it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: How?

Prabhupāda: Los Angeles.

Indian man: Good income?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because any ordinary room is about a $125. So $125 in our Indian exchange is about thousand rupees. So, thousand rupees, two rooms, who will pay in India?

Sumati Morarjee: No. Nobody will pay.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) Nobody will pay. So then therefore I thought that to purchase one, two house, so that as Vṛndāvana property . . . because I am maintaining now the whole institution by begging. But when Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa deities are there, there is no income.

Sumati Morarjee: No, there won't be any. Both places . . .

Prabhupāda: In Bombay we can go to you, "Mātājī, we have no money. Please give me some."

Sumati Morarjee: No, that is different, but these things . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, so, but Vṛndāvana and Navadvīpa I want to make some provision. So I'm negotiating for that. This is one business. So Bombay . . . Bombay ke liye to ap hi . . . (For Bombay, you yourself are . . .) huh?

Sumati Morarjee: Of course, you won't get so much rent for London properties. They're also very much appreciated.

Prabhupāda: London property is very costly.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, very costly, but they're day by day appreciating.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Śyāmasundara: Doubled. In one year it's doubled.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no. Forty percent has gone up in a year's time, on one property.

Prabhupāda: Because the Indians are coming.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, they'll take all the property.

Prabhupāda: (laughs)

Sumati Morarjee: And started taking all the shops. All the cinema theaters.

Prabhupāda: And London is practically now Indian.

Sumati Morarjee: I always say that I see more Indians in London than really the people who are . . .

Prabhupāda: Ye idhar bhi ap khada hoke khatiye, ek mandir accha banaiye na. Nahi, ye public hai interesting. Ap thoda din thehriye na toh idhar bhi ho jayega. Dus tarikh ke bad. Accha. (So you stay here and work hard, build one nice temple. No, the public is interested. If you stay here then the work will be done. After tenth. Okay.)

Sumati Morarjee: Ha wo to hoga. Abhi to mere ko to jane ka hai aur mai October ke dus tarikh ko yaha ane wali hu. Nahi, dus me to mera meeting hai. To do char din pehle mai aungi. October char pach ko. To ap kabhi jane wale ho Swāmījī? (Yes, that will be done. Now, I have to go and I will be coming here on 10th October. No, on the tenth I have a meeting. I will come two to four days earlier. October 4th or 5th. So when are you going to leave Swāmījī?) Oh, so much prasāda.

Dhanañjaya: Oh, we have prepared just a little for you.

Sumati Morarjee: All right. I'll take and send it back, because the children are at home.

Prabhupāda: All right, all right, all right.

Sumati Morarjee: I'll take, send you back your vessels. Did he give you last time?

Prabhupāda: So if you have got some paper, you wrap it.

Śyāmasundara: Here's a bag.

Sumati Morarjee: So now, what . . . what is your problem? Ah, this is better.

Prabhupāda: Ek ap hukum kar dijiye. Ki ek . . . (You issue an order. That one . . .) this boy, he's president of . . . of my Detroit.

Sumati Morarjee: So what does he want?

Prabhupāda: He wants to give me some car. To usko dispatch karne ka bandobast kar do. Ha, Detroit me. To idhar bhejna hai, phir apka jahaj me. Nahi, India me. (So make some arrangement to dispatch it. Yes, in Detroit. So it will be sent here, then on your ship. No, in India.)

Sumati Morarjee: Ha, wo . . . kaha Detroit me? Kaha bhejega, yaha? (Yes, that . . . where, in Detroit? Where will he send it, here?) So ask . . . you write to me a letter in Bombay, Scindia address, that such-and-such car, so when is the ship due in Detroit. And then I will let you know, finding out the whole detail. Because UK office doesn't know the movement of the American ships.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: It's only Bombay who . . . which knows. So you write me in a letter to Bombay.

Prabhupāda: When everything is settled up.

Sumati Morarjee: When you are settled, when is the ship due, and we want to send. So there won't be any trouble in port?

Prabhupāda: That he'll clear up.

Sumati Morarjee: You better clear first.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah . . .

Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise what happens.

Śyāmasundara: Kṣīrodakaśāyī knows.

Sumati Morarjee: Government of India doesn't allow any import of car in India; otherwise you will come . . .

Prabhupāda: His, his admission is that I am the guru of the Americans. I have no car. (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: I know. But if, how, you have to take either through the American Embassy permission or government of India's permission is needed.

Śyāmasundara: Yes, but Prabhupāda is an alien registered as living in the United States, so he can take his personal car.

Prabhupāda: I am immigrant. I am immigrant, and I think I heard that one who has lived in America more than three years, he can take.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, you can bring car.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, that is the law, I think.

Sumati Morarjee: So you can find out all this from India office. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah, Gurudāsa can do that.

Sumati Morarjee: And then will give you in Indian High Commission all details.

Prabhupāda: Another, another is that we get some incense imported from Hong Kong.

Sumati Morarjee: I know. So what is that incense?

Śyāmasundara: Punks. Punks.

Prabhupāda: Punks.

Śyāmasundara: Just a punk.

Sumati Morarjee: Can you show me?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Show me some.

Prabhupāda: Show, show, Spiritual Sky.

Sumati Morarjee: I know, we also use that incense, but, uh, I don't know the name of it.

Prabhupāda: So kindly get them carried from Hong Kong to Los Angeles.

Sumati Morarjee: So let us see.

Śyāmasundara: They're punks, without any scent, and then it . . .

Sumati Morarjee: I know it . . . (indistinct)

Śyāmasundara: And when they come here, then they dip them into oil and make a scent.

Prabhupāda: Anyway . . .

Sumati Morarjee: That's why I . . .

Prabhupāda: You get from Hong Kong . . .

Sumati Morarjee: And take where?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Take to Los Angeles. That is a . . .

Sumati Morarjee: No, but one thing, if it is brought to Bombay via Hong Kong, then we can send it to Los Angeles by ship.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Sumati Morarjee: By ship we can send it.

Prabhupāda: Your ship does not go to Hong Kong?

Sumati Morarjee: Sometimes it goes.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Sumati Morarjee: So, at that time it is handed over to Hong Kong ship. It will be delivered in Bombay. Then we reship it to Hong Kong . . . to Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: Is that on a regular basis, that it goes to Hong Kong?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, mostly. I'll let you know, because that service is also Bombay. These people, they don't know. So you can write one letter for this car, and another letter for this, so they're not intermixed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, all right. Scindia Steam Navigation meant for carrying Kṛṣṇa conscious . . . (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Everytime we carry.

Prabhupāda: That was written in the beginning.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: I think it was done by . . . at your expense.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That small pamphlet.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Scindia Steam Navigation Company carries Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to Western countries.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, I know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. She's a great devotee of Kṛṣṇa. In her office there is Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Everywhere.

Prabhupāda: These Gujaratis are especially, worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa, and they belong to Bhāratia community. They're all Vaiṣṇava. The whole, I have to say, Viṣṇu Svāmī Sampradāya, or Vallabha Ācārya Sampradāya.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, Vallabhācārya.

Prabhupāda: Their guru.

Sumati Morarjee: Vallabhācārya is our guru.

Prabhupāda: So, they, they're originally all Vaiṣṇava family. All Vaiṣṇava family. Bāla-Kṛṣṇa. They are worship of Bāla-Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: I have that Gujarati Back to Godhead.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we're printing the Gujarati Back to Godhead.

Sumati Morarjee: What? Let me, what is it?

Prabhupāda: We have got some . . . giving, give her that.

Sumati Morarjee: This is from where you get?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we get from Hong Kong.

Sumati Morarjee: Hong Kong. Why, is it good?

Prabhupāda: No, it is not good. It is raw. That we re-scent it . . .

Sumati Morarjee: How?

Prabhupāda: . . . different, in different way.

Bhagavān: They dip it into oils.

Prabhupāda: Scented oil. That's . . .

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, and then it becomes . . .

Dhanañjaya: They're known as firelighters, because sometimes they use them for lighting fireworks.

Sumati Morarjee: I know. Oh, I know now. I understand. So you can present, tell me. Yes, this is Dvārakādīśa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dvārakādīśa to apka hai. (Dvārakādīśa belongs to you only.)

Sumati Morarjee: So you, you have started?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have started.

Śyāmasundara: It's printed in Bombay.

Sumati Morarjee: Where?

Śyāmasundara: In Bombay.

Prabhupāda: Recently.

Śyāmasundara: This is the first one.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, because I have not seen it.

Śyāmasundara: This is the first issue.

Prabhupāda: This is the first issue. They have sent one copy. (knock on door) Yes?

Sumati Morarjee: So, Swāmījī, can I take this?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you can take.

Sumati Morarjee: So you must, you . . . initials.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, here. (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: And this also, so I will always remember that I've been in London to meet Swāmījī, my . . . Swāmījī's godson.

Dhanañjaya: And you're also president now, board of trustees.

Prabhupāda: You, president, you give her this garland.

Sumati Morarjee: Me?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: But did you put it round Swāmījī's head?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Then I can take prasāda garland of Swāmījī.

Dhanañjaya: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhagavān: Jaya. Haribol.

Prabhupāda: You consider Śrīmati Morarji as the mother of the Institution. (laughter)

Dhanañjaya: And you're our father. (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Because, you see, today, then Swāmījī was in so much trouble, I still remember. He wrote to me some letter from America that, "I am sitting in the Central Park, all alone." (laughter)

Śyāmasundara: Daddy can't be alone. You've got so many students, you have no time to be alone.

Prabhupāda: I was going to your agent's office, Battery . . .

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen Battery Place.

Sumati Morarjee: Yeah, 17 Battery Place.

Prabhupāda: So I was asking him, "Find out when Scindia Navigation is going back." He said such and such date. "All right." Then I thought, "Let me stay another month, what I can do." Then again I was going . . .

Sumati Morarjee: To find out.

Prabhupāda: Find out. (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Because you know . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . so he said: "Swāmījī, you are coming to find out, but you are not going back. What is?" (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: Because you know, there was one old man, now he has retired, who used to look after all service in that office. So he wrote to me that, "This Swāmījī wants to come. What to do?" I said: "Yes, whenever he wants to come."

Prabhupāda: No, I got return ticket.

Sumati Morarjee: "Yes, so you send him back, if he wants to come. But see that a good captain is on the ship." Then, uh, then . . . once he . . . came to Bombay, said: "Swāmī doesn't come." I said: "Now he won't come." (Prabhupāda laughs) And also give me, Swāmījī, that Gujarati . . . so I'll preserve all this.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, yes.

Dhanañjaya: Remember you were asking me just a few days ago about Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, I was. I heard Swāmījī, you know, came to my house to read. Rāsa-pañca-adhyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: From Bhāgavata. That is supposed to be the . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, when I shall go to Juhu, I shall regularly begin all Bhāgavata.

Sumati Morarjee: I want to hear, Swāmī.

Prabhupāda: Yes, all Bhāgavata.

Sumati Morarjee: And you know, rāsa-pañca-adhyāya is really the pañca-prāṇa of Bhāgavata; otherwise it is all right. There is nothing important. That is the real soul of the Bhāgavata, this rāsa-pañca-adhyāya.

Prabhupāda: (to devotee) You have got duplicate copies of this?

Sumati Morarjee: Have you got? Otherwise don't give me.

Bhagavān: Yes, I have some copies I brought.

Prabhupāda: All right, then that's all right.

Sumati Morarjee: He has come from where?

Bhagavān: Myself? I just came from Detroit.

Sumati Morarjee: Detroit. And this Swāmījī from where?

Revatīnandana: I'm staying here, in London.

Sumati Morarjee: No, but you come from where?

Prabhupāda: He's from America.

Revatīnandana: From California.

Sumati Morarjee: All from California?

Śyāmasundara: He travels around England and preaches in all the villages, small towns.

Sumati Morarjee: Where's that?

Śyāmasundara: Here, in England, Scotland.

Revatīnandana: I also met you in Bombay once.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, I have seen you in Bombay. And what about you?

Dhanañjaya: I'm Scottish.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, because you look . . .

Prabhupāda: In Edinburgh we have got a temple.

Sumati Morarjee: Is it?

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nice temple

Sumati Morarjee: This Swāmījī's from there.

Śyāmasundara: This boy is son of a Muslim family, Pakistani family.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so you have come from Pakistan.

Devotee: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Which side?

Devotee: Lahore, West Pakistan.

Sumati Morarjee: I have been to Lahore. We had a very big office in Karachi. I've been to Karachi so many time. Next to, you know, the . . . (indistinct) . . . the office area.

Prabhupāda: Now, what is the position of Pakistan now?

Sumati Morarjee: Today that Bhutto is come and gone.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: You know he has left for today for Pakistan back. He came to see the Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Sumati Morarjee: No, our Prime Minister.

Prabhupāda: Oh, our Prime Minister.

Sumati Morarjee: And they were both met in Simla for four days, five days, and then they discussed various thing, and now they have come to an understanding that everything must be mutually done, and with the good faith, and they have to be . . .

Prabhupāda: So, what is the use of keeping Pakistan? Let it, let, let, let them have another.

Sumati Morarjee: I know, I know. But what about this Bangladesh also? You'll have to . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Sumati Morarjee: . . . do something. Because I met so many people from Bangladesh, they were completely forgotten our culture.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Śyāmasundara: That's . . . we're going there next month, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. I think you remember him.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, very well.

Śyāmasundara: He's got his visa now. He's taking a party there, to Bangladesh.

Sumati Morarjee: Very good, but I hope they put . . . don't put you somewhere. That's not a very . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, reliable, I say. You have your office in Dacca?

Sumati Morarjee: Huh?

Prabhupāda: Dacca? No?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, our office used to be. We had property. We have lost about twenty-six lakhs of rupees with both sides of Pakistan.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you had to close your office?

Sumati Morarjee: We had our own . . . (indistinct) . . . our own house in Chittagong, then our offices, then . . . (indistinct) . . . and our manager he was interned, and we turn a lot of them . . . in Karachi also.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: We had big properties in Karachi.

Prabhupāda: So, so they cannot return?

Sumati Morarjee: They're not returning anything. With great difficulty. I put up a fight with the British to get back my ship with that interned one passenger.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that ship I saw when I was going.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: We met on the way.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah.

Prabhupāda: And that ship was returned.

Sumati Morarjee: That was returned. So that I put pressure on the British here. That's how we got back the ships. Otherwise we would have lost those two ships.

Prabhupāda: They're very uncultured.

Sumati Morarjee: Very, very uncultured. And he came to see the Prime Minister, he brought all his sons, all his daughters, whole family he brought, to our . . . (indistinct) . . . because Bhutto, he is from Junagadh. I know him.

Prabhupāda: Ah, he is a Gujarati?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, he is Gujarati Muhammadan. He is from Junagadh. His father . . .

Prabhupāda: Jinnah was also.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, yes, Jinnah was from Karachi, Bombay, but this Bhutto 'till he went away, he was in Junagadh. His father, son was Bhutto, was the Mayor of Junagadh.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Sumati Morarjee: He was brought up in Junagadh. He was in Bombay all these . . . he's educated in Bombay.

Śyāmasundara: Juna, Juhu?

Sumati Morarjee: No, no. Junagadh.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Junagadh is a city.

Sumati Morarjee: You know, in Saurashtra.

Prabhupāda: Saurashtra.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: There, he was born, bred, educated. He is from Bombay and Junagadh, Saurashtra. Like Jinnah. Jinnah, last time before Pakistan, came to my house, we were old friends, so he came to my house, so I . . .

Prabhupāda: Jinnah was older than you?

Sumati Morarjee: Oh?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, he was of Gandhi's age.

Sumati Morarjee: I know. And he was a Communist member before.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Home Rule and all that. He was the man. So I knew him some many years. So he came to see me, and I talked to him. At that time, you know, his position had become very bad. So he said that . . . I started talking to him in English, he said: "Why do you talk to me in English? You talk to me in Kachchhi. We have common language." I said: "I thought you forgotten." He said: "How can I forget my mother tongue?" (Prabhupāda laughs). And after that, you know, he . . . this movement of Pakistan, and India became very strong and he went away.

Prabhupāda: He was . . . he was paid for that running on the League of . . .

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I know.

Prabhupāda: Was the Muslim League.

Sumati Morarjee: I know.

Prabhupāda: This all Englishmen subscribes.

Sumati Morarjee: Because you know is the policy, "Divide and rule."

Prabhupāda: Yes, that was it. Jinnah was made.

Sumati Morarjee: Otherwise, nobody will do anything. So, I won't take your time Swāmījī.

Prabhupāda: No, you can sit down.

Sumati Morarjee: Because you are tired, old. I'm going to preserve this mālā.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Sumati Morarjee: I put it, give it to my daughter. She is very fond of roses.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, yes, she's crazy . . .

Prabhupāda: How old she is now?

Sumati Morarjee: She's ten. Today I'll . . . starting today in the afternoon, I remembered so much that I wish Swāmījī was here, she gave a Manipuri dance recital in our office and became Rādhā.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice.

Sumati Morarjee: You know, aṣṭa nāyaka.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Sumati Morarjee: So the eighth nāyaka she became.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Sumati Morarjee: Rādhā getting angry with Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So there are other girls also.

Sumati Morarjee: Hmm?

Prabhupāda: Other girls?

Sumati Morarjee: No, she was alone, but the offices, we wanted to see. So I said: "All right." We had tape, so she danced on that, and the other one is Mākhan-chori.

Prabhupāda: Acchā.

Sumati Morarjee: Two things she did. So I remembered so much.

Prabhupāda: Just see how this girl is being trained. So similarly, we are teaching our students, small children . . . we have opened a school at Dallas, to . . . because these boys and girls, they're having children, they're being trained up. We are creating a new generation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Sumati Morarjee: I tell you, we have got a very good Manipuri teacher.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Sumati Morarjee: Last year I was in Manipura, I took this girl with me, my little girl, and I stayed there eight days, went to Govinda's temple and all these places.

Prabhupāda: I, we cannot pay—we have no money.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, no. If these girls come to my school, I will teach them this dance.

Prabhupāda: Where is your school?

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, just opposite to you, my house.

Devotee: Next to the temple, Juhu.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.

Sumati Morarjee: These small girls, whatever you have got, they can come twice or four or four times, three times a week. This Manipuri girl comes.

Prabhupāda: No, we are opening here in America one school for training small children to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, so I told, Swāmījī, this Girirāja to come to our school, and tell them all mythological stories, and tell them . . . make them do some bhajana and all that. I hope he has started.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Sumati Morarjee: Ap (You.) . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: What is your name?

Sumati Morarjee: His name is Mr. Girish Joshi. He is from Dakore.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.

Sumati Morarjee: Dakore Ji's temple.

Prabhupāda: Now, in future, in Joshi family, Lord Kṛṣṇa will appear as Kalki.

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so here is Joshi.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is named there in the Bhāgavata, Viṣṇu Joshi. The father's name of Kalki is Viṣṇu Joshi, and He will appear in Śambhala. Śambhala.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I know that. They have built a temple.

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Sumati Morarjee: In . . . near Purī, there is a place, I forget the name, and in that they're building a temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Sumati Morarjee: When Kalki avatāra . . . they've built a very big . . . huge, big temple. When Kalki . . . without any image. When Kalki avatāra takes place, Jagannāthajī will come there, from the Purī temple, and They will be worshiped . . .

Prabhupāda: But that is after four lakhs of years.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, I don't know that. Building a temple. (laughter) I, this time, I asked, I said, "Who's building all these temples?" They said: "It is for Jagannāthajī." I said: "Jagannāthajī has past." They said: "No, when the Kalki avatāra takes place." There is a Śambhala town somewhere near, small village, and . . .

Prabhupāda: So you'll not remain here upto Ratha-yātrā.

Sumati Morarjee: No, I have my Ṭhākurjī's Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see.

Sumati Morarjee: At home.

Prabhupāda: I see.

Sumati Morarjee: So I today only wrote a very big letter what to do, how to do. I'll go there.

Prabhupāda: At Juhu?

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, my house.

Prabhupāda: I see.

Sumati Morarjee: So . . . (indistinct) . . . Ratha-yātrā. My Ṭhākurjī must be waiting.

Prabhupāda: It is taken outside? No.

Sumati Morarjee: No, inside. In the house.

Prabhupāda: Within the compound. That's right.

Sumati Morarjee: Here I have seen Ratha-yātrā, the first time in . . . when these people came here. I had no idea. That day I arrived. (laughter) So I said: "What is all this?" There were so many people and all hari-bolo and all that. "What is happerning?" So then I saw Ratha, I said: "This is Ratha-yātrā," near this place.

Devotees: Marble Arch?

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, no. I was passing Marble Arch, Hyde Park corner. I saw all the people. I said, "What . . ." Then I found out. I thought . . .

Prabhupāda: In San Francisco we hold, very gorgeous.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah.

Prabhupāda: Three rathas.

Sumati Morarjee: I have seen those pictures.

Prabhupāda: Three rathas, and thousands of . . . oh, they're very much, I mean to say, enthused to take prasādam and dance. So this year they asked me to come here. Therefore I have come to see the Ratha-yātrā, how they . . .

Sumati Morarjee: But, ah, you will be here in October?

Prabhupāda: Ah, maybe.

Sumati Morarjee: Ah, if you are here, you, you must write to me about Swāmījī's program.

Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.

Sumati Morarjee: So if you are here, I'll be here by 6th, 7th of October, because 10th is my meeting.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Sumati Morarjee: In London. So I will take your leave, Swāmījī.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Jaya. Sumatijī ki jaya. All glories to Sumatijī. (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: All glories to Lord Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sumati Morarjee: Ap utha lijiye. (You pick up.) So you write to me about this Hong Kong.

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And for you becoming the president of the Trustee, I shall write to Girirāja.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, you write to Girirāja, and we will discuss ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Thank you.

Sumati Morarjee: So much.

Prabhupāda: Yes, take it. She can take whole . . .

Sumati Morarjee: I'll take and then . . .

Prabhupāda: She'll return the pot.

Sumati Morarjee: And I'll send all the bati (utensils) and everything, including handkerchief. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Jaya! Go with. Go with. Take this. Take this. Help her. No, no, he will help you.

(Sumati Morarjee leaves)

Revatīnandana: Do you know how old she is, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Maybe over sixty.

Revatīnandana: She's very much alive. So much alive.

Prabhupāda: Her father was one the richest men in Bombay, and her husband . . . her father-in-law also one of the richest men. They're coming from very rich family in Bombay. And she's so intelligent. That Scindia Steam Navigation Company, very big company. It is a semi-government, and she's the managing director. All the big, big officers respecting as mother, carries out her order. And she's great devotee of Kṛṣṇa, but she does not agree with her husband. (laughter) Hmm? The husband and wife, not very agreement. Yes.

Revatīnandana: Her husband is alive?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They live separate building. They meet, but they live separate building, separate establishment. She looks one department of business, and he looks another department. That child, adopted. She has no own child.

Revatīnandana: Oh.

Bhagavān: So perhaps she'll ship the punks, and the vehicle.

Prabhupāda: And the car also. And I've asked her to become the president of the trustee for construction of Bombay. She has agreed.

Revatīnandana: What will the business of the trustees be?

Prabhupāda: Hah?

Revatīnandana: What will their business be as trustees?

Prabhupāda: To raise fund.

Revatīnandana: Hmm?

Prabhupāda: Raise fund. That's all. We approach these person for raising fund, that's all. Not for taking any lesson from them. Now, to have a temple here, we shall hold a meeting on the Indian gentlemen to raise the fund. You find out some place, immediately, so that while I am remaining, by performing Bhāgavata-saptāha, I'm influencing the Indian rich men here; they can purchase. She will also contribute for October. July, August, September, October. So the negotiation will go on for at least three month; in the meantime, she will come. She will also contribute. I have already given her hint and she agrees. So let us find out some nice place.

Bhagavān: You won't be here that long, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You're going to be leaving on the 20th, and . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I may come back.

Bhagavān: You may come back?

Prabhupāda: Yes, finish the business.

Bhagavān: Would you like myself or Haṁsadūta to stay here and help with this building?

Prabhupāda: Yes, all together.

Bhagavān: I was thinking of going to Paris, but I'll stay for a while and help here.

Prabhupāda: Paris is not far off. You can go and come.

Bhagavān: Go and come. It's too crowded here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is good.

Bhagavān: Yeah! (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Instead of becoming empty, it is better crowded. Our building, in the morning it was . . . there was no place to bow down. It was just matchbox packed up.

Revatīnandana: Yeah, that's right.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: That is because all the devotees are here from all the temples. But still . . .

Prabhupāda: Could not sit even. That is good. And it is always like that?

Devotee: No.

Revatīnandana: Well, like I say, all the devotees are here from all the temples in England, so Edinburgh and Manchester, they're all here too. But always it is crowded, and, uh, on Sundays it's no good at all, because so many people come, they can't even come in to see the Deities, you know. They can't fit all in the temple. And, uh, and we don't advertise the Sunday feast. If we advertise the Sunday feast, we couldn't get them in the whole building. So we can't even advertise. So therefore they don't even mention it, people still come, and we can't fit them all in the building. And we're hoping that it would get so full that Kṛṣṇa will see and He'll give us a place quickly.

Prabhupāda: Give her some position. And she's very influential, rich. But everyone wants some post. That is natural. Therefore I told . . . offered her the presidency of Bombay Trust, to raise the fund. In Bombay we have got very nice place. The best place of anywhere. And it is so nice in summertime, you'll find in paradise. So many coconut trees. You have seen?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupāda: And we are . . . Nara-nārāyaṇa has been engaged to make it a nice garden. All vacant land, we are getting nice garden, and the owner of the land, he has given me the best facility. First of all, the land is worth minimum thirty hundred thousands rupees.

Revatīnandana: Thirty lakhs?

Prabhupāda: Thirty lakhs. But he has given me for fourteen lakhs. And that's also by installment, in three years, er, four years, without any interest . . .

Devotee: Who is that man?

Prabhupāda: Mr. Nair. Mrs. Nair. She is . . . she is also very nice devotee. So every year four lakhs of rupees, in three years, er, four years, fourteen lakhs, without any interest. So we have got good facility. And in Vṛndāvana, some gentleman has given us the land.

Revatīnandana: Is the land in Vṛndāvana, is it in the city? Is it on the outside of Vṛndāvana, or is it right in the city?

Prabhupāda: No, it is just in front of Bon Mahārāja's college.

Śyāmasundara: It's in Rāman Reti.

Prabhupāda: (laughter) The best place in Vṛndāvana. All aristocratic quality. And we have got potency. There are so many buildings, they are not being properly utilized. If we want to, you can purchase the whole area.

Revatīnandana: How is the Gauḍīya . . .

Prabhupāda: Now you have got enough place in Vṛndāvana, in Navadvīpa, in Bombay. There will be no difficulty if you go by thousands to India. You can live very comfortable. So you can go, batches by go—you can go and come back. So that foreigners, they visit, and gradually there will be unity between the so-called Hindu, Muslim—all Kṛṣṇa's servant. This is the idea behind Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We don't believe in this skin disease. (cut) (end)