720630 - Lecture at Indians Home - San Diego

Lectures by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

720630LE-SAN DIEGO - June 30, 1972 - 54:22 Minutes

(kīrtana)

Prabhupāda: (prema-dhvani)

Devotees: All glories to Śrī Guru and Gauranga. All glories to His Divine Grace Śrīla Prabhupāda. (devotees offer obeisances)

Prabhupāda: So I will attempt to speak something? (indistinct Hindi)

Jaya the Indians who are outside India, they have got a special duty. So far our economic condition is concerned, as I explained yesterday, that one is destined to certain material comforts and discomforts, according to his body. Already he has got. So either you stay in India or stay in America, the bodily comforts, or sense gratification, that will be achieved either in India, America. What you are destined to achieve, you will have it, because as soon as your body is manufactured, your standard of comfort and discomfort is also manufactured. In Bengal there is a proverb that jadi jau bange kapala jabe sange: "Wherever you go, your fortune will go with you." Fortune and misfortune, that will also go with you.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said one thing that, "Any Indian, any man who has taken birth on the soil of Bhārata-varṣa, India, he has got a special duty. That duty is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra

janma sārthaka kari kara para-upakāra

(CC Adi 9.41)

To do good to others, para-upakāra. So those Indians who are here, it is all right you are earning for some economic development, but at the same time, you try to make your life perfect by Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it to the foreigners as far as possible. That's your duty. Not that . . . that you are getting decent salary than India, and enjoy life and forget your culture. That is suicidal.

You have got a culture. So this culture is Vedic culture, and Vedic culture means Kṛṣṇa conscious. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa. One who has not understood Kṛṣṇa, he has no Vedic culture. But every Indian is supposed to have Vedic culture. And to have Vedic culture means to understand Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all Indians, they should cultivate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness personally, make their life successful, and distribute it to the . . . our neighbors. Of course, I do not think . . . if you invite your neighbors, they do not come, you said?

Guest (1): Obviously, they have got some other work, this, that.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. But anyway, because you are living in this country, you must have some friends. Whenever you talk with your friends, you talk about Kṛṣṇa. Don't waste your time in other ways. That will be beneficial for you and for your friends. And before talking about Kṛṣṇa, you should know about Kṛṣṇa. And you can know about Kṛṣṇa very easily by understanding Bhagavad-gītā. So read Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, try to understand it, and you can distribute it. That is a great service to Kṛṣṇa, to your personal self and to the person you are speaking about Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

And four principles of impious life, as it is accepted by our Vedic followers, namely no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That will give you strength, and over and above that, if you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra . . . you can chant. It is not difficult. There is no loss. You can chant. That will give you spiritual strength. And in this way try to become spiritually powerful and serve Kṛṣṇa. It doesn't matter where you are. It doesn't matter. Everywhere is Kṛṣṇa's kingdom. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor everywhere. So if you be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so wherever you may be, you'll be with Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you remain with Kṛṣṇa, you are not living within this material world; you are living in the spiritual world.

So especially I request Indians, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41): "Anyone who has taken birth on the holy land of Bhārata-varṣa, India," janma sārthaka kari, "just make your life successful by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and preach it." This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. So if you take it you'll be happy, your neighbors will be happy, the world will be happy. And kṛṣṇa-kathā means to present Kṛṣṇa as He is. Don't misinterpret by ras . . . just like some rascals do. Even a great scholar known all over the world practically in scholarly circle, he has practically vilified Kṛṣṇa by his so-called scholarship. Now he's suffering. He has lost himself, we have practically seen. So that is a great offense, to vilify saintly persons or God. That's great offense. So read Bhagavad-gītā as it is; present it as it is. Then your life is successful.

Now, if you have got any question we can discuss.

Guest (2): Swāmījī, the four principles you were telling about, are they for purposes of just other-worldliness, or is it for material gains in this world or what?

Prabhupāda: No. We belong to the other world actually. We spirit soul, we belong to the spiritual world. Just like fish belongs to the water. Fish does not belong to the land. So if the fish is brought from the water to the land, it cannot be comfortable at any stage. It will die. Similarly, you are Brahma, part and parcel of Brahma, particle of Brahma. So unless you return to Brahma, you cannot be happy.

Guest (2): But if we look at the world as it is today, we'll find that people who are the most powerful in this world are those who . . .

Prabhupāda: Who is powerful? First of all let us see who is powerful.

Guest (2): Like United States, like Soviet Union. There is no other power in this world who can . . .

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by powerful? Then President Nixon is not afraid of anything, do you think?

Guest (2): He personally may not, may be afraid of something, but as a country, yes, it's very powerful. The whole world is afraid of them.

Prabhupāda: Well, President Nixon means this country. Why he went to China? Why he went to Russia? He's also afraid. If there is war, there will be great calamity. So everyone is afraid. Everyone is under the control of the laws of nature. Everyone is hungry. So actually nobody's powerful in this material world.

Even if he's powerful, it is for temporary. So many Hitlers, so many Napoleons, so many Churchills and others came and gone. There was powerful British Empire, powerful Roman Empire. So nobody's powerful. That's a wrong idea. In due course of time everything will be kicked out and finished. That is the law of nature.

Guest (2): Yeah, but what I'm trying to get at is that it seems to me that if you carefully look at the world history during the past . . .

Prabhupāda: World history is that history repeats itself. Everything comes into existence and then vanquished.

Guest (2): No, that's not what I mean. What I meant is that during the past two thousand years, whoever was very powerful was who was doing all these four things which we are, which you are suggesting that we should give up, you see.

Prabhupāda: But I say that my challenge is nobody's powerful. That is my challenge.

Guest (2): I mean . . .

Prabhupāda: You mean, but that is not the fact.

Guest (2): It's a fact. I mean, when they are powerful they rule the whole earth.

Prabhupāda: Where is your Hitler? Where is your Mussolini? Where is Napoleon?

Guest (2): Yes, Hitler is gone, but then we have that U.S., you see. If tomorrow U.S. goes, maybe there will be Soviet Union.

Prabhupāda: So that means everyone will come into power for some days, then it will be finished. That's all.

Guest (2): Yeah, but all the people who are getting into the power are people who are having these four vices, you know, and . . .

Prabhupāda: Therefore their power is finished. If you become sinful, then your power will not exist. Just like Rāvaṇa became powerful. He was so powerful that he dared to take away Sītā. But he also became vanquished. That is the history.

Guest (2): Yes, but people say that power . . .

Prabhupāda: People say, that is other . . . you see the fact. Nobody is powerful; nobody can exist here. For the temporary, say for some years, you may be so-called powerful, but it is not powerful. We are concerned with eternal life. We are not interested in the so-called power for a few days. That is not our aim.

Guest (2): Yes, but if we say that everything is destined, you know, like the moment your body is manufactured and . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): . . . everything is destined, then we are probably as well destined to be Kṛṣṇa conscious or to be non-Kṛṣṇa conscious, you know.

Prabhupāda: No. That destiny can change. Śāstra says . . . destined means so far you're . . . suppose you are to get, say, one thousand dollar per month. So that you'll get. You try for it or don't try for it, you'll get. Therefore we should not waste our time for getting one thousand dollar. We should utilize the time for developing our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our philosophy.

tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido

na labhyate yad bhramatām upary adhaḥ

tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ

kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā

(SB 1.5.18)

Just like nobody tries for becoming unhappy, but unhappiness comes. Nobody tries that "Let me become unhappy." But people become unhappy. Why? He does not try for it. Similarly, that happiness also, even if you don't try for it, it will come.

So śāstra says: "You don't bother yourself for worldly happiness or unhappiness. Whatever you are destined, you'll get it. You try for develop your Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which in other life, in the animal life, you could not do." In the animal . . . (break) . . . advised . . .

If the animal is advised that, "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious," he cannot do it. He has no power. But a man can do it. Therefore the man's main business should be how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for so-called economic development. Economic development will come automatically, what you are destined to have.

This is our philosophy. We don't try for any economic development. All our members, we have no concern what we shall eat tomorrow, although we haven't got any source of income. We are pushing this movement all over the world. We have got about one hundred branches, and similar devotees are there, each branch, not less than twenty-five. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Twenty in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: Twenty. And about two hundred somewhere. And in America, you know the expenditure. We are living in the best part of the city. But we have no source of income. We take some books, some incense, but there is no guarantee that it will be sold. So it is not a book of technology, general demand. Kṛṣṇa Book. So if somebody's kindly interested in Kṛṣṇa, he'll purchase.

So we are living in this way, depending on Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa's supplying all necessities. We have got seventy thousand dollar expenditure per month. So this is practical. We don't try for getting any job or any business. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. But our main business is to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness and follow the rules and regulations, chant sixteen rounds Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. So we are . . . there is no problem for us. To collect seventy thousand dollars and spend every month, do you think is very easy job? A big government is concerned, or a big company, to collect seventy thousand dollars and distribute it again, It is a big problem. So how . . . we are increasing our centers. Practically every month, two, one, two. And we have got huge expenditure. But Kṛṣṇa is supplying.

So we should see the example, be confident, depend on Kṛṣṇa, and then everything is all right. Kṛṣṇa is powerful. He's omnipresent. He knows better than me. Our business is to satisfy Him. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So we are preaching this, that "You take to Kṛṣṇa. Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." Kṛṣṇa said the same thing we are saying. We are not manufacturing it. Why should we manufacture? The words are already there. We haven't got to manufacture anything. We simply . . . just like I have come to your place. What am I speaking? I am speaking that, "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." We don't talk of any economic problem, political problem. We don't talk.

Guest (2): How can you separate out economics, politics . . .

Prabhupāda: There is no separation. Kṛṣṇa is the all-inclusive. Economic problem means eating, sleeping, mating or getting some money. So we are getting money. I have already given you account.

Guest (2): Yes, but . . . no. As far as ISKCON is concerned, maybe that is true. But supposing if you take an individual devotee, see, who is married and who has a family and all that, you know, he cannot . . .

Prabhupāda: There are so many married families. So many married families. He is married family, he is married family, he is married family. They have got children, wife, everything. There is no problem. The children are getting nice education, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, dancing, eating nicely. Just now we are purchasing one house in front of our temple, seventy thousand dollar, for providing gṛhasthas.

Husband, wife, children will live there. So we have no problem. The gṛhasthas are there, the brahmacārīs are there, sannyāsīs are there—everyone is there. We maintain the Vedic culture: brāhmin, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, or brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. The eight orders of social structure we maintain. But they're all engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is the distinction. Everyone is twenty-four hours engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service.

Guest (2): What are the kṣatriyas of this order supposed to be doing now?

Prabhupāda: They are taking to politics. Yes.

Guest (2): Whom are they fighting? Whom are they going to fight?

Prabhupāda: No, some of our members, they are standing for election in the government. Election. And we hope one day some of our men will become president. That is kṣatriya's business, to take part in administration.

Guest (2): No fighter. No fighting. They are not going to fight? They're not going to become warriors, not like the real kṣatriyas.

Prabhupāda: Well, when you take part in politics, you have to fight. (laughter) Yes.

Guest (2): I don't mean that. I mean muṣṭi, muṣṭi, muṣṭi fighting.

Prabhupāda: Well, if required, muṣṭi fight will be there. Arjuna, Arjuna was fighting. He was Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Guest (2): Yes. You see, but what I'm basically asking is what are these kṣatriyas going to fight with?

Prabhupāda: Kṣatriya fought . . . why don't you take the case of Arjuna? He was a kṣatriya. He fought for Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): Yes, but in those days, you see, there is some kind of a clear-cut . . .

Prabhupāda: Those days or in these days, the same principles are there. Kṣatriyas should fight for Kṛṣṇa. That is his perfection of life.

Guest (2): Okay. Then the question is whom shall we fight now? Okay, supposing we are all . . .

Prabhupāda: Those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious. Yes.

Guest (2): Fight in a real . . . sword, fight with swords?

Prabhupāda: The demons. Demons. Demons. Just like Lord Rāmacandra fought with the demons, so similarly, Kṛṣṇa conscious person will fight with the demons. That is already there. Demons and demigod always fight. Devāsura-yuddha, you know? That is history. We don't say that fighting should be stopped. We don't say that.

We don't say that becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious: nonviolence. That is bogus. In Delhi, when there was not . . . declaration of war between Pakistan and India, press representative came: "Swāmījī, what is your opinion about this fight?" I said, "You must fight." And it was published in the paper. It gave some agitation. They were glad. I said, "You must fight." And that was published in big letters in . . . so we are not that kind of sādhu and Vaiṣṇava that we don't take care of practical things. When there is need of fight, we shall fight.

Guest (2): Yes, but if that is the case, you see, then the Muslim mullah, mullah, or whatever you may call, says, "Fight all non-Muslims."

Prabhupāda: Well, Muslim . . . it is not the question of Muslim and Hindus. When there is right cause for fighting . . .

Guest (2): But what I mean is a Muslim mullah can say all non . . .

Prabhupāda: Well, why you are making . . .? We are talking of philosophy. That is applicable to the Muslim or to the Hindus or everyone. When there is right cause of fight, one must fight. This is philosophy.

Guest (2): Yes, but what is the basis on which you decide whether a cause is right or wrong? There should be a common basis. You see?

Prabhupāda: Just like aggressor. Aggressor. Just like you are living in this room. If somebody enters your room and attacks your wife, you must fight. You immediately kill him. That is the law. This is fight. You cannot see your wife being insulted before you. You must fight. You must kill him. That is the law. Aggressor.

Guest (2): Does this apply to the brāhmins?

Prabhupāda: You should fight to the . . . no, brāhmins will not fight; the kṣatriyas will fight. The brāhmins, kṣatriyas, they are part and parcel of the same unit. Just like hand. Hand is the part of your body. When there is attack, you first of all spread your hand. So this is kṣatriya's business. When somebody is coming to attack you, you don't put your legs, you put your hands.

And the hand is raised by the order of the brain. And the hand and the brain is maintained by the belly. Why don't you study your own body? As in your own body there is brahminical department, there is kṣatriya department, vaiśya department and śūdra department. (laughter) But nobody is less important.

Guest (2): How do you define a brāhmin?

Prabhupāda: The brain.

Guest (2): That is for a man, but . . .

Prabhupāda: That is for everything. The brain of the society should be brāhmin.

Guest (2): By brain what do you mean?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean, that you learn. You come to our school. Then you learn. You cannot learn everything in one minute.

Guest (2): (laughs) No.

Prabhupāda: Then you just hear. Don't make yourself laughing stock.

Guest (2): No, what I mean is, you see, does brāhmin mean by birth or by action or . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not by birth; by action.

Guest (2): By action only.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): So you don't recognize brāhmins by birth, then.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then how they are becoming brāhmins? They are not by birth brāhmin. Why don't you see yourself? They are brāhmin.

Guest (2): So if there is a brāhmin by birth, if he doesn't . . .

Prabhupāda: No, there is no brāhmin by birth. That is not sanctioned by the śāstra.

Guest (2): Oh, I see. So there is no real brāhmin by birth.

Prabhupāda: No. There is no . . . that is not sanctioned by the śāstra. That is artificial.

Guest (2): I see. So according to you . . .

Prabhupāda: Brāhmins means by quality. He must have the brahminical quality; then he's brāhmin.

Guest (2): So under these principles, then, there are no brāhmins in India, really, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. At the . . . not only . . .

Guest (2): Not all the brāhmins who are supposed to be brāhmins.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We . . . our . . . this philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to the Bhagavad-gītā and Bhāgavata, we don't accept brāhmin by birth. We accept brāhmin by quality. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Quality and work.

Guest (2): What are your qualifications for a śūdra?

Prabhupāda: Śūdra is serving others. Get some salary and be satisfied. That's all. He has no more culture. That is śūdra. He cannot live independently. Anyone who serves others for his livelihood, he's a śūdra. A brāhmin never serves anyone, a kṣatriya never serves anyone, a vaiśya never serves anyone. A śūdra . . . paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). They want some service: "Give me some money, sir. I am helpless." "All right, you work like this." That is śūdra.

Guest (2): So in other words, all dependent employees, they're all śūdras.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the statement of the śāstra. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra."

Guest (2): So only those who have independent means, then, would come in the . . .

Prabhupāda: They can be counted, yes. Because a brāhmin is advised not to accept service at any circumstances. That is the injunction of the śāstra. He can take the profession of a kṣatriya or a vaiśya, but not the śūdra.

Guest (2): I see.

Prabhupāda: That is brāhmin.

Guest (2): So whoever cannot stand on his own legs as an independent businessman or landlord or whatever it be, he's a śūdra.

Prabhupāda: Yes. These are described in the Bhagavad-gītā. I have not manufactured these things. These are śāstra that, "He's brāhmin"—the qualification. "He's kṣatriya"—qualification. "He's vaiśya"—qualification. "He's śūdra"—by qualification. And Nārada Muni says, but we have to judge by the qualification. Yasya hi yad lakṣaṇaṁ varṇābhivyañjakam, tat tenaiva vinirdiśet, yad anyatrāpi vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35).

"These are the qualities of different caste. If it is found in other place, you should designate him according to the quality." Just like a man born of a brāhmin family, but if he has got the śūdra qualities, then he should be śūdra. And a man born of a śūdra family, if he has got the qualities of brāhmin, then he must be designated as brāhmin.

Guest (2): What about intermarriage between all the castes?

Prabhupāda: Well, intermarriage, that has introduced according to the social system. But so far we are concerned, we are allowing intermarriage from any country, any . . . if he's Kṛṣṇa conscious, we help him marry. There are so many intermarriages in our Society.

So try to understand this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and spread it so that there will be oneness—one God, one scripture, one nation, one religion—according to Vedic injunction. Not that we are manufacturing something. That is the Vedic injunction.

Guest (2): What is the speciality of Vedic injunction compared to Hebrew scriptures, if you like?

Prabhupāda: Vedic injunction is, the ultimate goal of human life, to go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. This is not . . . as I have already explained that this is not our home, material world. We are spirit soul. Our real home is spiritual world. So in the lives, different species of life, 8,400,000's of species of life, they cannot understand it that we are spirit soul, our home is in the spiritual world.

They cannot understand it. That opportunity is available in this human form of life. Therefore if we don't take advantage of this information and prepare our self accordingly, then we are losing the opportunity. Tad api aphala-jatam. Anāśrita govinda-caraṇa-dvayam.

Guest (2): But how does this differ from the Hebrew scriptures? Hebrews also say the same thing, you know, that you have fallen down from the heaven and go back . . .

Prabhupāda: But Hebrew . . . Hebrew, Indian, there are . . . the aims is the same—back to home, back to Godhead. The process may be different. The process may be different. Just like everyone wants some money. Without money he cannot exist. The process may be different, how he's earning money.

Similarly, every religion, the aim is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Now the process may be different according to country, time, climate, men. That is another thing. But the . . . the same example: either you are businessman or in service or working, craftsman, the aim is you require some money.

Without money you cannot exist. This is crude example. Similarly, the aim is we are part and parcel of God. We . . . unless we go back to home, back to Godhead, there cannot be any peace.

That understanding is possible to develop in this human form of life, not in the animal form of life. Therefore every human being should take advantage of this human form of life and develop this idea of going back to home, back to Godhead. Either you do it through Hebrew religion or Christian religion or Hindu religion, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. If your aim is . . .

Just like at the present moment people want money. If he gets money, it doesn't matter in which way he gets the money. Money we must have. Similarly, the aim should be fulfilled. Either you fulfill it through the Hebrew or through Hindu or Christian or Muhammadan, it doesn't matter. But if the aim is missed, then you miss everything. That is the definition in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ

viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ

notpādayed ratiṁ yadi

śrama eva hi kevalam

(SB 1.2.8)

Everyone has got his particular type of religion or occupation. That's all right. Dharma svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsām. The result will be . . . by executing your particular type of religion, the result must be there. The result is, "How I shall go back to home, back to Godhead." If that desire is not developed, it is simply waste of time.

You may profess this religion or that religion or this religion or that religion, it doesn't matter. You are simply wasting time by following the dogmas and ritualistic this or that. That will not help you. Phalena paricīyate. Whether you have come to this consciousness, "What I am? I am not matter; I am spirit. I have to go back to my spiritual." That . . . that is wanted.

So either you may be Hebrew or may be Hindu or Christian—we want to see whether that consciousness has arisen. If it is not, then you have simply wasted time. Either you be Hindu or brāhmin or this or that, it doesn't matter. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Simply wasting time.

Guest (2): But in order to really get any interest in any of these things, you see, you should really believe that . . .

Prabhupāda: It is not a question of believe. It is question of fact.

Guest (2): . . . that there is another world and that you go there or you come back and all. This is a belief, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: It is not belief; it is a fact. One who does not know, he thinks it is belief. That is ignorance.

Guest (2): So how do we . . .

Prabhupāda: You have to learn it. You have to become student. How do you expect to learn it for nothing?

Guest (2): Learn what? Learn that there is . . .

Prabhupāda: That is the process, Vedic process. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet samit brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). You have to learn. Just you learn so many things from teacher, similarly, these things also you have to learn.

Guest (2): In other words, this question of there being another world, it could be actually learned. There is no belief in world in that.

Prabhupāda: It is a fact.

Guest (2): You could actually find out, experience yourself that there is another world.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. Just like you have come to America. (laughter) Yes, similarly.

Guest (2): So you are saying that there is a process by which you can see the other world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Guest (2): Does this take a whole lifetime to learn, or what?

Prabhupāda: It takes only one minute. (laughter) If you are serious. If you are not serious, it will not be understood even millions of years. That is the fact.

Guest (2): I see. It's so simple, then.

Prabhupāda: If you are serious, then it is a one minute's business. And if you are not serious, it is not fulfilled in millions of years. That is the . . .

Guest (2): I see.

Devotee: What determines, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if one is serious or one is not serious? What makes one . . .

Prabhupāda: Well, this seriousness comes after many, many birth. It is also not so easy. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, tatra laulyam ekalaṁ janma sahasra sukṛtair na labhyate. He wrote a verse, kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate (CC Madhya 8.70, Padyāvalī 13, 14): "The kṛṣṇa-bhakti, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this thing, if you can purchase somewhere, just immediately purchase it."

Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatām. "Just purchase." Yadi kuto 'pi labhyate. First of all, if you want to purchase, the things must be available, yadi kuto. Therefore kuto 'pi, "If it is available, immediately purchase." Then next question is, "What is the value? What is the price I have to pay?" Then he said, tatra laulyam ekalaṁ mūlyam: "Simply your serious eagerness to have it. That is the price." "Oh, that I can have very easily." "No." Na janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate: "That laulyam, that seriousness, is not obtained after thousands of years' pious activities."

It is so difficult. Na janma-koṭi-sukṛtair na labhyate. People are acting piously, but that kind of seriousness is not available even after executing pious activities for thousands of lives.

So that seriousness is also very difficult, to become very serious that, "In this life I shall finish my business and go home, back to home, back to Godhead." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Kṛṣṇa says: "After many, many births, when actually one becomes in knowledge, he surrenders unto Me."

Guest (2): Are we all part of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are part. Yes, we are part of Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): If we are all part of Kṛṣṇa, then what does it matter whether we really worry about becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or not? We already are part of Kṛṣṇa, so whether we are conscious or not, we are there, you know, and it really doesn't have . . . need any effort at all.

Prabhupāda: Then you are part of human society. Then why you are trying to improve your position?

Devotee: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Why you are trying?

Guest (2): To be more powerful.

Prabhupāda: Just see. You do not know. You have forgotten the power, part of Kṛṣṇa, what is the function of part of Kṛṣṇa. You are thinking you are part of this material world. That is the difficulty.

Guest (2): Yes, but that is what Kṛṣṇa gave me, though.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa . . . you have taken it.

Guest (2): The moment my body is manufactured . . .

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa . . . Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Kṛṣṇa says that.

Guest (2): Yes, that is provided He gives me that . . .

Prabhupāda: Not "provided." There is no "provided." Kṛṣṇa says this. This is Kṛṣṇa's order that, "You give up all nonsense. Simply surrender unto Me." That is your business. But you are thinking, "No, I am part of this world. I must work in this world. I must have this. I must have that." That is your thinking.

Kṛṣṇa's order is, "Simply surrender unto Me." That's all. But you are thinking, "How can I surrender?" And that is your business. If you do not surrender, then you go . . . see to your own business. So whatever you are creating, you are creating by yourself. "Man is the architect of his own fortune." So you are creating your fortune and misfortune, both. Kṛṣṇa is giving you facilities: "All right, you want this? All right, take this."

Guest (2): How does this tie in with the other thing, saying that if you are destined to get something, you will get it. But now you are saying, "If you want it you'll get it." These two seem to be contradictory.

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa . . . not contradiction. You have created your destiny. You have got a certain type of body. So you must enjoy and suffer. And again, if you want something, you'll be offered another body. What is the difficulty to understand?

Now you wanted something; you have got a particular type of body. You finish it. Now you want something more, you'll be . . . "Give me another type of body." Similarly, if you want Kṛṣṇa, you'll be given a type of body where you can go to Kṛṣṇa.

Guest (2): I see. So you are saying that if you ask for something now, you may not immediately get it. You may get it in another birth.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. That is natural. Just like these children. If he says, "Give me one boy," is it possible? He has to wait. (laughter) Suppose a boy . . . girl is married. If the girl says, "Give me immediately boy," is it possible? When she's married there will be . . . wait.

Guest (2): Maybe somebody like Kuntī can do that, you know. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Well, everyone is not Kuntī.

(pause) So, let us go. (japa) (cut) (end)