720624 - Conversation - Los Angeles

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720624R1-LOS ANGELES - June 21, 1972 - 53:50 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . to serve the Supreme Lord. America has got special advantage for serving the Supreme, and by the grace of the Lord you have got everything. Man's first necessity is arrange for eating, sleeping. Of course, there is nothing is to be arranged, everything is arranged already. But still, due to our ignorance, we are anxious for what we shall eat, where shall I sleep, how my sense gratification will be done, how my country will be defended.

Just like this morning we have seen in newspaper that eastern part of the country is inundated. So you cannot defend by nature's onslaught. When there is nature, you cannot defend. At any time within a moment, the whole thing can be finished. Nature is so strong. Just like here the Pacific Ocean is. One big wave six-stories high, it can immediately over-flood. And to raise a wave of six-story high from Pacific Ocean is nothing. It can be done at any moment. And a six-stories-high wave, if it is coming the Los Angeles side, where you shall remain? Everything will be finished. So nature is so strong, you cannot defend. Although we call the word "defend". Defend, you can defend against mosquito or bugs, that's all.

Atreya Ṛṣi: (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Not against the onslaught of nature, that is not possible. So you can defend yourself from the onslaught of the nature by surrendering to God. Otherwise there is no way. So people should learn this art, how to surrender to God, then every protection is there. So, other countries they may plead, just like in India, people were completely dependent on God. Now they have learned to defend themselves by so-called science, economic development, but the ultimate protector is God. Without His sanction, nobody can defend. You try for defense, you try or not try, if you are not defended, protected by God, nobody can protect you.

This is nature's law. So by nature's law it is so made that everything is there complete. So we can depend on God and do little work and get our economic development complete. Anywhere, any part of the world you go, a little . . . you can produce very easily little grains, fruits, and if you have got cows, milk, your economic problem is solved. But if you want high roads, three dozen motorcars, three dozen slaughterhouse, six dozen naked club, that is different thing. That is different thing. But for your living condition, by God's arrangement, everything is complete. You haven’t got to endeavor, little endeavor. Just like you have to eat. The eatables should be there, you have to simply exert like this, that's all.

Similarly, all things are there by God's arrangement, eatables. You simply exert this much, that's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that you become God conscious, all your problems will be solved and you’ll be happy. All problems are solved automatically. Just like the animals, less than human being, whose intelligence is less than human being, they have no problem. Eating problem, they have no problem. They rise early in the morning (makes sounds like birds), the birds, and anywhere they go there are little fruits, they eat, that's all. And eating sleeping, they sleep nicely on the branches at night, very cool air. And sometimes when they lay eggs, they prepare a little nest, they put on the eggs say for two months. And when the, what is called, cubs?

Devotees: Chicks. Little birds.

Prabhupāda: Ah, little birds they have grown up, they have learned how to fly, they have no connection with home, finished. When the female bird is pregnant, they create some nest to lay eggs. At that time, they collect the sticks and do it nicely for their purpose. No use of skyscraper building. (laughter) Similarly, we can also build nice cottage. There are so many woods. Anywhere you can cut some tree and have nice cottage, till the ground, get grains and keep cows, gives milk, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is nature's arrangement. But we want to violate nature's law.

Therefore, 50,000 men are being killed in auto motor accident in your country because you have got the largest number of cars. You must die, 50,000 a year. That is another nature's law. You are creating so many roads, flyways, one after another, one after another, one after another, still 50,000 men are being killed, is it not? So the more you want to be artificially happy, the more you create problem. This is law of nature. But we don’t discourage the material advancement, we don’t discourage. But we simply request that whatever you do, you be God conscious. Then you will be happy. This is our . . . (indistinct) . . . you do, you build nice house.

Just like we are having this temple, 24 hours program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that does not mean we are lying down on the street. We are also having nice apartment, we are using this dictaphone, this telephone, electric fan, everything, but for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other purpose. We are 24 hours engaged, all our men, simply for Kṛṣṇa's business. Similarly, whole thing, whole business, factory, anything that we have created for our comfortable life, they can be all engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And then there will be happiness really.

Now in spite of so much advancement in material comforts, there are so many frustrated youths. They are lying down on the street, on the beach, without any sufficient clothing. They think this is natural. I say, therefore, to my countrymen that you say that your country, or India, is poverty stricken so many men are lying on the street, they have no shelter, no food. But I am in a country, America, where is food supply more than necessities, why they are lying down on the beach? Just see. They have no want, there is no scarcity, and still they are like wretches. And the university, Hawaii University, all the students just like urchins, no nice dress. Everyone has come to become hippies. Why? They haven’t want. They have got nice fathers, rich father, rich grandfather, rich country, nice university building, but they are becoming frustrated, dressing like urchins, poverty stricken, artificially. Why?

So, therefore, our protection . . . the father does not want that his son or daughter should be so wretchedly dressed. But they dress . . . I have seen in Beverly Hills the hippies coming out from very respectable houses, must be his father very rich, having nice motorcar, but that torn dress. So this is the position, that if one is neglected by God, so despite all possession, he will be poverty stricken. Just like you are a rich man, your son is sick. You have engaged the first-class physician, first-class medicine, and still he dies. What is the reason? From scientific point of view you are giving all first-class help, but why the child dies? That means these things are not only the cause of the child's protection, there is something else.

That something else is God. Until His sanction, nobody can be happy, nobody can be peaceful. This is the law of nature. So artificially by materially, we cannot make ourselves happy. Then we shall find out happiness in that way. The hippies are finding out, lying down on the street, wretched dress, no regulative principles. They are thinking they are happy than their father. So in that way, everyone has got his own standard of happiness. That is one kind of happiness, but real happiness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, God consciousness. That is real happiness.

Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam (BG 6.21), in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, the real happiness is uncovered by this material encagement. Now our happiness is covered. Take for example, you cannot enjoy sex happiness covered, but when it is not covered, that is happiness. Similarly, our present happiness is covered because we are covered by this material encagement. When we are uncovered of this material encagement, then real happiness is there. Sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyam grāhyam. That atīndriyam means super-consciousness, and super-consciousness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is very simple.

Now we are working for our own sense gratification, everyone is working. When you work for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, that is super-consciousness. It is not very difficult. A child is whimsically thinking of his own happiness, but the father, who loves the child, he's working whole day and night to see how the child will be happy. His happiness is there. He wants to see his children nicely grown up, nicely fed, that is his happiness. But child is thinking that by eating dirt, I shall be happy. He is eating dirt. So our happiness, real happiness will be felt when we serve Kṛṣṇa, this is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

You can . . . just like here in my room there is Kṛṣṇa's picture, we have given it a small, nice place to sit down, offering something to eat. This consciousness. Actually whatever we are offering we are eating our self, but the consciousness is that Kṛṣṇa is eating. This is wanted. Kṛṣṇa is not hungry. If we offer to Kṛṣṇa, He is self-sufficient, God, He doesn’t require anything because His things we are eating. These fruits and flowers, it is not manufactured by me, it is manufactured by God, we are enjoying. So what is the harm if we simply admit, "Sir, it is your thing. You first take, then we shall take." How much nice this consciousness. To acknowledge His grace, His mercy. You cannot manufacture this flower, it is manufactured by Kṛṣṇa, by His intelligence. So why not offer first to Kṛṣṇa, then you take it.

Or by the side of Kṛṣṇa, we put the flowers by the side of Kṛṣṇa and we see Kṛṣṇa beautiful, more beautiful with the flowers, His creation. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So everyone can do it, where is the difficulty? Is there any difficulty? So you American people, you are intelligent, you are not poverty stricken. So you take this, try to understand, you take this and be happy. Why you are becoming hippies? Be happies.

So we have come to give you something, not to bluff you that I give you some special mantra, give me my fees and I go away. It is not like that. It is something tangible we are giving. And those who are accepting, they are becoming happy. You have seen our temple, our temple? As soon as you go, you will feel some spiritual advancement immediately.

(aside) So, it is better than dāl.

Devotee: Oh, shall I bring this everyday then?

Prabhupāda: Hm. You have seen our books?

Guest (1): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Kṛṣṇa . . .

Guest (1): I have most of them.

Prabhupāda: Read these books, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow the regulative principles, be happy, individually or collectively. Great saintly persons in India, they would sit down underneath a tree and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, read these books, and they will forget their big post of ministership. That Rūpa Goswami, Sanātana Goswami, they were ministers in the government service. And they went to Vṛndāvana and lived underneath a tree, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and reading and writing books, that's all.

Guest (2): How do you know which is the best path to follow?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (2): How do you know which the best path to follow?

Prabhupāda: By practical experience.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Best path.

Prabhupāda: Best path.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is the best path, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, because people are becoming happy. From hippies they are becoming happies now. Therefore, it is the best path. They were confused, frustrated, now they have got hopes of life. Thousands of boys and girls, they are admitting that, "You have given us a life." Ask any of the students, they will admit. That is the best path.

Guest (2): It is so confusing.

Prabhupāda: Confusing for those who do not understand. But if he tries to understand with little cool brain, it is not confusing. The simple thing is to understand that we are under the laws of nature. Just like there is flood. Not only flood, another news was there, some, what is that? High jet, high . . .

Atreya Ṛṣi: Highjack, highjack.

Prabhupāda: Highjack. He has taken 500 thousand, 502 thousands of dollars by threatening the government. So this kind of miseries by highjack, it is called adhibautic. And the flood is called adhidaivic. Besides that, there is another misery which is called adhiatmic. Adhiatmic means due to your personal body and mind. Adhibautic means miseries offered by others. And Adhidaivic means miseries which is offered by nature. So these three kinds of miserable condition of life is always there. If there is no highjacks, then there is headache, mental anxiety. If there is no natural disturbance, there is highjack department, disturbance.

So either of these three, either three or two or one must be there always. This is your position. But it means you are controlled by the laws of nature. But these laws of nature is also controlled by somebody. Because as soon as you call "law", there must be somebody law-giver or law controller. Just like in the state there is department of law and order and there is departmental head also, director of law and order. Similarly, the laws of nature are very strong, stringent, but there is a controller of.

The scientists admit that they simply study the laws of nature but they do not know who has made these laws of nature. But we can say who is the maker of these laws, law of nature. That is the difference. Scientists, they are also trying, material science, to make you happy by different discoveries, inventions. But they have failed because they do not know, they are trying to overcome the laws of nature, that much. But they do not know who is the maker of the laws of nature.

We know that we are suffering by the stringent laws of nature but if we surrender to the maker of the laws of nature, then there is relief. Just like a man by law, state law, he is ordered to be hanged, but he takes shelter of the supreme executive, president or the king, he can excuse. He can excuse from, for being hanged. Nobody can. The high court judge or the governor or so many, there are others who are executing the laws, they cannot excuse. By law he must be hanged. But if he appeals for king's mercy or the president's mercy and the president becomes merciful, he may be saved. Similarly, the laws of nature are very stringent, you cannot be saved. But if you take shelter of the person who makes the laws of nature, you will be saved. That is the best path. Is it not?

Atreya Ṛṣi: What other alternatives do you see?

Prabhupāda: You cannot get out of the laws of nature, that is not possible. (pause) And surrender to God, Kṛṣṇa, is also very easy. We have got this bag and chanting these beads, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare. There is no expenditure, there is no loss. What is the cost of these beads, they are very inexpensive.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: You can chant.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Isn’t Kṛṣṇa the purpose of all paths?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Isn’t Kṛṣṇa the purpose of all other paths ultimately?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the objective.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Every path?

Prabhupāda: Somebody knows Kṛṣṇa, somebody does not know. Just as child crying for mother cannot express. He has no language, but he is crying for mother. One who knows, he brings the child or brings the mother together and there is happiness. The experienced man knows the child is crying for mother so calls the mother, or the child is taken to the mother and there is happiness. Although the child does not express, "I want mother", but he knows. Similarly, those who are expert, they know everyone is wanting Kṛṣṇa, but he does not know, he cannot express due to his ignorance. So:

upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ

jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ

(BG 4.34)

One who is experienced, he tries to combine Kṛṣṇa and the other. And actually he becomes happy as soon as he will come in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Is that alright?

Atreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you know or not know, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, either being requested by us or by your conscience, you will be happy. Somehow or other if you touch the fire, it will act. So we are bringing everyone, trying to bring everyone, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And someone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is happy.

Guest (2): What's the difference between chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and other forms of meditation?

Prabhupāda: What is that other forms of meditation, I must know.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Such as?

Guest (2): Such as Transcendental Meditation.

Prabhupāda: What is that, explain?

Guest (2): Repetition of a mantra.

Prabhupāda: So we are also repeating mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But what does the mantra say?

Prabhupāda: No, no, apart from. We are, this is mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is the difference?

Guest (2): I don’t know.

Prabhupāda: There is no difference. The only difference is that the so-called Transcendental Meditation is a special mantra, a special mantra?

Guest (2): Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is not scientific. Science is not special for you, science is for everyone. Just like this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is for everyone. It is not special for any person, person, and secret. This is bluff. If there is something good in connection with God, that is open secret. That cannot be secret. God's sunlight is open for everyone. It is not that only rich man will get the sunlight who can pay for it.

Sunlight is free and open to everyone. That is God's grace. Similarly, the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is open for everyone, it is God's grace. This mantra should be meditated, then there will be perfection. Other things are bluff. That is the difference. One is genuine, and the other is bluff. That is the difference. You wanted to know the difference. The difference is this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is genuine and any other thing, that is bluff, cheating, that's all. This is the difference.

One is genuine, and the other is bluff. Why it is genuine and what is that bluff? That bluff, some especially for a person. That is not God's gift. God's gift is open to everyone without any charge. The example I have already given, the sunlight. Sunlight is not meant for the rich, the richer section of the city. It is open to the ocean also. Just like pouring of rain from God's gift, the cloud, open to everyone. The land requires raining for being moist, but the water does not require, but the rain is there also. It is so sufficient. It is on the hill also. Hill does not require rain. On the hill there is no production, nobody is going to produce grains, neither on the water. But it is so sufficient and liberal that it is on the water, on the hill, besides on the land. That is God's gift. God's gift is not for a particular person, individual.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This Hare Kṛṣṇa is not only for one person, it is so free we’re offering it on the streets.

Prabhupāda: Even for the children, they are taking part. The children also dance. The small children, not even one year, when there will be chanting, on the lap of the mother they are . . . every day we see. It doesn’t require any education, natural. Soul's function. As soon as there is soul, it will act, immediately. That is the difference. This is also meditation.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Prabhupāda, could you explain how soul acts to the mantra?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Atreya Ṛṣi: How the soul acts to the sound vibration?

Prabhupāda: Because it is spiritual vibration and soul is spirit, so at once it is attracted on the same level, same platform. (pause)

Guest (2): How do you meditate, how . . .? Do you just say, do you just sit and say Hare Kṛṣṇa, or do you do it all the time?

Prabhupāda: You have not seen our class in the morning?

Guest (2): No.

Prabhupāda: You come and you see how we do it, meditate. Practically you will see how our meditation is going on. Come between seven and eight, you will find in the morning.

Devotee (2): Earlier also we are chanting japa.

Prabhupāda: Early also. If not early, you can come between seven and eight.

Give them a little prasāda.

Devotee (2): There is some for them.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): Would you like me to get some for them? There is some saved for them.

Atreya Ṛṣi: There is some saved.

Devotee (2): Also I’ll show Terry Stevens your books also.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): I’ll show him your books also.

Prabhupāda: So. Jaya.

(devotees offer obeisances)

Guest (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Guest (1): I should have spoken sooner, I suppose, but I didn’t know if I should. How does Lord Jesus fit in, that was my main problem all along, because I'm so strongly Catholic and yet I’ve been drawn to Kṛṣṇa consciousness too, and I can't seem to reconcile them. I’ve talked to the devotees and yet I can't get them completely set . . .

Atreya Ṛṣi: She would like to know how Lord Jesus would fit into Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Lord Jesus says that you love God. We love God, that's all.

Guest (1): Yes, but there are such different rules in the two.

Prabhupāda: That is not very important thing. Actually if you have learned to love God, that is wanted.

(break) . . . by Lord Jesus Christ is different from the standard of our perception of lord of God, love of Godhead. Love of Godhead is one. God is one and how to love Him, that is also one. Now, we have to see by the result.

Just like two physicians are there. One physician is over-crowded, another physician is counting the contents of his table. So people go to that physician who is curing very quickly, but both of them are physician. One may be very experienced, another may be not very experienced. But somehow or other one is crowded, another is not crowded. Similarly, both Christian religion or this Vedic religion is instructing people love of Godhead.

Now you have to see where is the best result. That's it. Then you judge yourself. But we want that you love God. Either by this method or that method, the method is nothing. End justifies the means. If the end is that actually you have developed your love of God, then the means which you have adopted, that is alright. And if the end is not very good, then the means is also not good. So you have to judge yourself whether you are developing love for God or love for dog. Then you can judge. Why you are asking me?

Guest (1): Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Why you are asking me? You can judge.

Guest (1): Oh. Well, because I have been very confused for the last eight months.

Prabhupāda: Why should you be confused? If you really want to love God, so you can test yourself whether I'm increasing my love of God or increasing love of dog. People are generally in love of dog, especially in your country. Everyone has got a pet dog. And we are preaching not dog, but God, that is the difference. So you have to test yourself whether I am loving God or loving dog. That's all.

And our point of view is that you love God, never mind whatever the means, whether Christian means or Jewish means or any means, Hindu means, Muslim means, it doesn’t matter. You love God, that's all. Somehow or other you come to that point. That is our missionary activities. We are teaching, "Love God".

Guest (1): Yes, but what confuses me is some of them . . . well, no, I shouldn’t put it that way. To love God in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to chant and follow the four regulative principles and then have association, which practically means living in a temple. Well, I'm from Fresno and there is no temple, so it's very difficult.

Prabhupāda: So why don’t you come to the temple? Live near the temple.

Guest (1): (laughs) I tried that.

Prabhupāda: You live near the temple if you cannot live with us.

Guest (1): Uh huh.

Prabhupāda: Take an apartment near the temple, join temple service, and you will learn everything automatically. You live fortnight with us, you will love God. Fortnight, give a try, fortnight.

Guest (1): Pardon?

Prabhupāda: Fortnight one, fifteen days. You live with us, and you will learn how to love God.

Guest (1): I did that, your Grace, for three weeks I did.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So it is very easy. Just like to love God is not difficult because that is natural. Just like father and the son or mother and the son, the love is already there, fixed up. The son may forget, but the mother does not forget. But as soon as the mother and son comes together, the original love revives immediately.

Similarly, love of Godhead is natural. So by somehow or other you come near God, then you again love God. That is the purpose of temple. There is God, Radha-Kṛṣṇa, living. We are giving Him everything, we are dressing Him, we are bathing Him, cleansing, we are praying, we are offering obeisances, in this way, the original love of God awakens. By this process.

man-manā bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru

(BG 18.65)

"Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me, offer Me your obeisances, and you become God conscious." Very easy. It doesn't require much education, Ph.D. title, nothing. So you can try for a fortnight here. If you like, you can live with us. Or you come. Now give them little prasāda.

Devotee: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So, Hare Kṛṣṇa. (cut) (end)