720618 - Conversation in Garden - Los Angeles

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720618GC-LOS ANGELES - June 18, 1972 - 13:06 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . what happened, not only this birth; in previous . . . (indistinct) . . . let me explain. Previous to this he has also sinned. What is that? Oh (chuckles).

Devotee: (reading from Kṛṣṇa book, 'Delivery of the Message of Kṛṣṇa to the Gopīs) "So Lord Rāmacandra, as a kṣatriya, should have fought with Vāli face to face but, instigated by His friend, He killed him from behind a tree. Thus He deviated from the religious principles of a kṣatriya. Also, He was so attracted by the beauty of Sita that He converted Śūrpaṇakhā, the sister of Rāvaṇa, into a ugly women by cutting off her nose and ears. Śūrpaṇakhā proposed an intimate relationship with Him, and as a kṣatriya He should have satisfied her. But He was so selfish that He could not forget Sītā-devī and converted Śūrpaṇakhā into an ugly women."

"Before that birth as a kṣatriya, He took his birth as a brāhmin boy, known as Vāmanadeva, and asked charity from Bali Mahārāja. Bali Mahārāja was so magnanimous that he gave Him whatever he had, yet Kṛṣṇa as Vāmanadeva ungratefully arrested him, just like a crow, and pushed him down to the Pātāla kingdom. We know all about Kṛṣṇa and how ungrateful He is, but here is the difficulty: In spite of His being so cruel and hard-hearted, it is very difficult for us to give up talking about Him. Not only are we unable to give up . . ."

Prabhupāda: This is the difficulty. "He is the most sinful, but we cannot give up His talking. That is our difficulty." This is love . . . (indistinct) . . . all life for Him, I love him . . . (indistinct) . . . all life forms I love Him. Similarly here, gopīs position is they are finding out so many discrepancies in the life of Kṛṣṇa, but they cannot give up. The difficulty is they cannot give up to stop this thought.

Devotee: "But here is the difficulty: In spite of His being so cruel and hard-hearted, it is very difficult for us to give up talking about Him. Not only are we unable . . ."

Prabhupāda: This is called real love—that the lover may be most cruel, but still the lover cannot withdraw the love. That is perfect love. Āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ (CC Antya 20.47, Śikṣāṣṭaka 8). This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. "Kṛṣṇa may be very cruel, but I cannot withdraw my love for Him." This is real love. "If Kṛṣṇa benefits me, then I will love," then that is not love, that is business.

But, "In spite Kṛṣṇa's all cruelty, I cannot withdraw," this is real love. That is only possible with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted that there is no better conception of worshiping Kṛṣṇa than it was contemplated by the gopīs. That is the topmost worship of Kṛṣṇa. There is no comparison. There are different grades of devotees, but nobody can be compared with gopīs, the topmost love for Kṛṣṇa.

Go on.

Devotee: "But here is the difficulty: In spite of His being so cruel and hard-hearted, it is very difficult for us to give up talking about Him. Not only are we unable to give up this talk, but great sages and saintly persons are also engaged in talking about Him. We gopīs of Vṛndāvana do not want to make any more friendships with this blackish boy, but we do not know how we shall be able to give up remembering and talking about His activities."

Prabhupāda: That is . . . (indistinct) . . . "We don't want this blackish. (laughter) But how to give up His thought? That is our problem. We don't want Him at all." One . . . there is a prayer. Kṛṣṇa, great sages, yogīs, they tried to capture Him within your heart—but they cannot do. "But our position is that we want to drive You away from our heart, we cannot do that." They want to capture Kṛṣṇa within the heart, but they cannot. But "You are so strongly seated in our heart that we want to drive You away so that we can divert our attention to other things. But we cannot do it. So please go away from our heart." This is gopīs . . . (indistinct) . . . Ramyā kācid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā (Nārada Pañcarātra 1.2.6).

Go on.

Devotee: "Since Kṛṣṇa is absolute, so-called unkind activities are as relishable as His kind activities. Saintly persons and great devotees like the gopīs cannot give up Kṛṣṇa in any circumstances. Lord Caitanya therefore prayed, 'Kṛṣṇa, You are free and independent in all respects. You can either embrace me or crush me under Your feet, whatever You like. You may make me brokenhearted by not letting me see You throughout my whole life, but You are my only object of love."

"'In My opinion,' Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī continued, 'we should not hear about Kṛṣṇa, because as soon as a drop of the nectar of His transcendental activities is poured into the ear, one immediately rises above the platform of duality— attraction and rejection. Being completely freed from the attraction of material attachment, one gives up the attachment for this material world: family, home, wife, children and everything which is materially dear to every person. Being dispossessed . . .'"

Prabhupāda: Once Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he has no other thought. No duality. This is monism: one. According to gopīs, this is monism.

Go on.

Devotee: "Being dispossessed of all material acquisition, one makes his relatives and himself unhappy. When he wanders in search of Kṛṣṇa, either as a human being or another species of life, even as a bird, it is very difficult to actually understand Kṛṣṇa—His name, His quality, His form, His pastimes, His paraphernalia and His entourage."

"Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī continued to speak to the black messenger of Kṛṣṇa: 'Please do not talk anymore about Kṛṣṇa. It is better to talk about something else. We are already doomed, like the black spotted she-deer in the forest who are enchanted by the sweet musical vibration of the hunter. In the same way we have been enchanted by the sweet words of Kṛṣṇa, and again and again we are thinking of the rays of the nails of His toes. We are becoming more and more lustful for His association; therefore I request you not to talk of Kṛṣṇa anymore.'"

"This talk of Rādhārāṇī with the bumblebee messenger and Her accusing Kṛṣṇa . . . and Her accusing Kṛṣṇa, and at the same time Her inability to give up talking about Him, are symptoms of the topmost transcendental ecstasy called mahā-bhāva. The ecstatic mahā-bhāva manifestation is possible only in the persons of Rādhārāṇī and Her associates. The ecstatic mahā-bhāva manifestation is possible only in the persons of Rādhārāṇī and her associates. Great ācāryas like Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī and Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura have analyzed these mahā-bhāva speeches of Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, and they been described . . . and they have described the different sentiments such as udghūrṇā, bewilderment, and jalpa-pratijalpa, talking in different ways. In Rādhārāṇī is found the science of ujjvala, or brightest jewel of love of God."

"While Rādhārāṇī was talking with the bee and the bee was flying hither and nither, it all of a sudden disappeared from Her sight. She was in full mourning due to separation from Kṛṣṇa and was feeling ecstasy by talking with the bee. But as soon as the bee disappeared, She became almost mad, thinking that the messenger-bee might have returned to Kṛṣṇa to inform Him all about Her talking against Him. 'Kṛṣṇa must, must have been very sorry to hear it,' She thought. In this way She was very much overwhelmed with another type of ecstasy."

"In the meantime, the bee, flying hither and nither, appeared before Her again. She thought, 'Kṛṣṇa is still kind to Me. In spite of the messenger carrying disruptive messages, He is so kind that He has again sent the bee to take Me to Him.' Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī was very careful this time not to say anything against Kṛṣṇa."

"My dear friend, I welcome you,' She said: 'Kṛṣṇa is so kind that He has again sent you. Kṛṣṇa is so kind and affectionate to Me that He has sent you back, unfortunately, in spite of your carrying My message against Him. My dear friend, you can ask from Me whatever you want. I shall give you anything because you are so kind upon Me. You have come to take Me to Kṛṣṇa because He is not able to come here. He is surrounded by new girlfriends in Mathurā. But you are a tiny creature. How can you take Me there? How will you be able to help Me in meeting Kṛṣṇa while He is taking rest there along with the goddess of fortune and embracing her to His chest?"

"Never mind. Let us forget all these things about My going there or sending you. Please let Me know how Kṛṣṇa is faring in Mathurā. Tell Me if He still remembers His foster father, Nanda Mahārāja, His affectionate mother, Yaśodā, His cowherd friends and His poor friends like us, the gopīs. I am sure that He must sometimes sing about us. We served Him just like maidservants, without any payment. Is there any possibility that Kṛṣṇa will again come back and place His arms around us? His limbs are always fragrant with the aguru scent. Please put all these inquiries to Kṛṣṇa."

"Uddhava was standing near, and he heard Rādhārāṇī talking in this way, as if She had become almost mad after Kṛṣṇa. He was exceedingly surprised at how the gopīs were accustomed to think of Kṛṣṇa constantly in that topmost ecstasy of mahā-bhāva love. He had brought a message in writing from Kṛṣṇa, and now he wanted to present it before the gopīs, just to pacify them."

"He said: 'My dear gopīs, your mission of human life is now successful. You are all wonderful devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore you are eligible to be worshiped by all kinds of people. You are worshipable throughout the three worlds, because your minds are wonderfully absorbed in the thought of Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa. He is the goal of all kinds of pious activities and ritualistic performances, such as giving in charity, rigidly following the austerity of vows, undergoing severe penances and igniting the fire of sacrifice."

"He is the purpose behind the chanting of different mantras, the reading of the Vedas, controlling the senses and concentrating the mind in meditation. These are some of the many different processes for self-realization and attainment of perfection of life. But actually they are only meant for realizing Kṛṣṇa and dovetailing oneself in the transcendental loving service of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."

"This is the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā also. Although there are descriptions of different kinds of processes of self-realization, at the end Kṛṣṇa recommended one should give up everything and simply surrender unto Him. All other processes are meant for teaching one how to surrender ultimately unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. The Bhagavad-gītā also says that this surrendering process . . ." (break) (end)