720422 - Lecture SB 02.09.02 - Tokyo

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



720422SB-TOKYO - April 22, 1972 - 47:25 Minutes



Pradyumna:

. . . māyayā bahu-rūpayā

Prabhupāda:

bahu-rūpa ivābhāti
māyayā bahu-rūpayā
ramamāṇo guṇeṣv asyā
mamāham iti manyate
(SB 2.9.2)

Bahu-rūpa means varieties of forms, 8,400,000's of forms. Ivābhāti: "It appears like that." Therefore, when one is advanced in spiritual consciousness, he does not see the varieties of form, because these varieties of form are not real. Anyone can understand that. Any form . . . Today we have got a form. Take a photograph of it, and few hours after, the form has changed. So that is not permanent form. It is changing. Just like you see in the cloud. From airplane you can experience.

The cloud . . . You are running. You are seeing one form. After few minutes, that form is changing to different form. Therefore it is called ivābhāti. You immediately see a cloud just like big elephant, but after a few minutes you see the cloud, the same cloud, is changed into just like a big hill, another, a big tree. So this is going on. Today I am Indian, you are American, but next birth or after few years, although American, the body is changing. Body is changing. Therefore it is written there, ivābhāti: "as if it has got a body." "As if." Ivābhāti: "It appears." But māyā is so strong. Bahu-rūpa ivābhāti . . . What is the next word? Māyayā?

Bali-mardana: Māyayā bahu-rūpayā (SB 2.9.2).

Prabhupāda: Bahu-rūpayā. These bahu-rūpa, these varieties of rūpa, form, is given by māyā. So this is intelligence. Just like mother, or like a small child, dressing morning in some way, in the evening another way, changing dresses. Māyā is our mother, and she is giving us a different type of dresses, māyayā bahu-rūpayā, and therefore we are changing into bahu-rūpa.

But because we are attached to the dress, so according to the form, we are forming our consciousness. Now I have got a different body, different form, so I have got a different consciousness. You have got a different body; you have got a different consciousness. So everyone, all living entities . . . The dog is thinking . . . Because he has got a dog's body, he thinks, "I am dog." "I am American," the same way. This is all māyā. Bahu-rūpa ivābhāti māyayā bahu-rūpayā. Then, next?

Bali-mardana: Ramamāṇo.

Prabhupāda: Ramamāṇa.

Bali-mardana: Ramamāṇo guṇeṣva . . .

Prabhupāda: Guṇeṣu. And according to the body, he is enjoying different variety of enjoyment. So when I have got a tiger's body, so my taste for food will be most abominable, fresh blood, like that. And if I have got a hog's body, then I shall feel pleasure by eating stool. And when I am a Vaiṣṇava—Vaiṣṇava's also transcendental—or a brāhmaṇa's body, then I will be pleased with nice foodstuff, sattvika, sattvika foodstuff. Sattvika foodstuff means rice, wheat and vegetables, fruits, milk products and sugar. These are foodstuffs in goodness. Similarly, foodstuff in passion, foodstuff in ignorance. These are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eighteenth Chapter.

In Hong Kong I saw from the garbage one Chinese woman was finding out rejected serpent-like preparations or something. First of all, it is rejected; it is thrown in the garbage. And from the garbage, according to her taste, she is finding out some nice foodstuff. You see? Just see. Kadarya bhakṣaṇa kare, nānā yoni . . . (Prema-bhakti-candrikā). So according to the body, dehinam. Deha yogena dehiṣu.

According to the body, we get different taste of enjoyment. Somebody is enjoying most abominable things, somebody is enjoying very nice—but according to the body. Therefore, if you become transcendental to your body, then your taste will be transcendental. If your taste is . . . As the body is changing, ramamāṇa, you cannot enjoy. If you are in the transcendental position, you cannot enjoy like the woman in Hong Kong, finding out in the garbage. You see?

So people are trying to give service to the humanity. What service they can take, give? I have got a taste for a certain thing. How you can change my taste? Ramamāṇa. I want to enjoy because I am under the grips of material nature. So I have got a certain type of taste. You cannot change it. If I say, "Don't drink," unless you are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is impossible to give up this drinking. That has already been tested. The American government, they are trying.

They are spending so much money to stop these intoxication habits of the young men. They cannot, because they are ramamāṇa māyayā. They are pulled by the ear of the person: "You must drink this." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, material nature is pulling you: "You must drink." So unless one is free from the management of the prakṛti, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni, it is impossible. So they are trying to give lesson that "Don't drink," "Vegetarians." There are so many societies. In Hong Kong I saw so many societies.

(aside) Hong Kong, or where I saw?

Devotee: Australia.

Prabhupāda: Australia. Yes. There are so many societies, vegetarian societies, nondrinking societies. That is nice, but they cannot stay. By forming ordinary society or imposing some law by the state, you cannot stop. You have many laws to stop stealing, still there are thieves. That is not possible. You have so many laws not to do something. But because everyone is under the grip of prakṛti, material nature, how he can change? It is not possible.

So that is the mistake of the modern civilization. They do not know that by passing laws or giving some moral instruction, we cannot change the habits. Prakṛti is very strong, material nature. The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unless one comes to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform, he cannot give up his habits. It is not possible. So if you want to . . . Therefore it is purificatory process.

The more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you become purified from all this influence of māyā, because it is acting by māyayā bahu-rūpayā. And as soon as you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even if you have got a different form, a different bodily form, because you are aloof from that, your . . . you are not affected by the influence of māyā.

Just like anyone who is coming to Kṛṣṇa consciousness in any country, they are forgetting their bodily consciousness. Just like in our Society we have got members from different parts of the world. Especially in Africa we have seen, there is very much distinction between white and black. But in our Society there is no such distinction. The Indians there, they hated with the . . .

Because the Africans are working as servant to Indians. So now this time they agreed to take prasādam, all in the same line. The Europeans, Americans, Indians, Africans, even brāhmaṇas, high caste, all. I also. We sat down to take prasādam. In our Māyāpur they are distributing prasādam. Perhaps it is for the first time that Hindus and Muslims are taking prasādam in the one line.

Devotee: All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is for the first, at least the first time. And Congress arranged during Congress session, Hindus and Muslims . . . But that was not with heart. And after the Congress meeting was finished, they . . . But here they daily, they are daily coming, taking prasādam. Why not? Prasādam is Kṛṣṇa's prasādam.

So actually, the United Nation or united people can be possible only in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise it is not possible. The māyā. Everyone is under the influence of māyā, bahu-rūpayā. So long he is under the influence of māyā, he must think in terms of his own form. That is temporary, but he is attached to that temporary form. He must think that "I am this," "I am that," "I am . . ." So it is a very important verse. Read it again. Bahu . . .

Bali-mardana: Bahu-rūpa ivābhāti.

Prabhupāda: Bahu-rūpa ivābhāti.

Bali-mardana: Bahu-rūpa ivābhāti māyayā . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: Māyā's three guṇas, modes. So somebody is in passion, somebody is in ignorance, somebody is in goodness. Even one is in goodness, goodness is also another. It may be higher quality, but that is māyā quality. One has to go above goodness. Here there are many persons, they are very clean.

That is a brahminical quality, sattva ṣama śauca, very clean, truthful, controlled, so many qualifications, but still, that is māyā. Still that is māyā. To become on the platform of brahminical, satya śama dama titikṣa ārjava, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam brahma-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.42), so even . . . This is the platform of goodness, brahminical qualification.

So even in brahminical qualification, it's still māyayā. He is thinking, "I am brāhmaṇa. I am so pure. I am better than him." But he does not know that he is identifying himself with māyā. "I am not brāhmaṇa, I am not śūdra, I am not kṣatriya, I am not vaiśya, I am not a sannyāsī, I am not a brahmacārī, I am not a gṛhastha. Nothing of the sort." Then what you are?

Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). "I am these qualities," so this identification also will not help. Today I may be brāhmaṇa, and tomorrow I shall become a bhaṅgī. A . . . (indistinct) . . . nothing of the sort. "Then what you are?" Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ. "I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa." This pari bhram(?), Kṛṣṇa's servant.

First servant Brahmā; next servant, his servant, Nārada; his servant, Vyāsa; his servant, Madhvācārya; his servant, the servant's servant's servant, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu, then Caitanya Mahāprabhu's ṣaḍ-gosvāmīs. In this way, when we think that we are servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa, that is our perfection. Otherwise, even if we think that "I am not brāhmaṇa. I have got sacred thread. I am very clean. I am taking bath . . ." That is required, of course, because if you are actually servant of servant of Kṛṣṇa, then these qualities will be there as subordinate.

Just like when you have earned 100,000's of dollars, it is not that the ten dollar is not there. Ten dollar is there, but it is not very important. Similarly, to become a servant of the servant of servant of Kṛṣṇa means that the brahminical qualification which is worth ten dollars, that must be also there. But even at that stage, if your ten dollar quality is lacking, then you cannot become proud of becoming the servant of the servant (CC Madhya 13.80).

You cannot become proud of possessing 100,000's of dollars if you cannot pay ten dollars. Do you follow? If you say, "Now I am in possession of 100,000's of dollars," and if I ask, "Give me ten dollars," "No. I haven't got." So similarly, if you actually have become transcendental servant of Kṛṣṇa, if the qualities of brāhmaṇa is lacking, then you are not perfect. The brahminical qualification must be there. Then you are falsely possessing.

If you falsely say that "I possess 100,000 dollars," and if I ask, "Give me ten dollars," "No. I . . ." This is false prestige. So these ten dollars will not serve my purpose. I will have to acquire 100,000 dollars. That is Vaiṣṇava qualification. But when we are actually in possession of 100,000 dollars, you must be able to pay ten dollars. You cannot say, "No. I haven't got ten dollars." Then we are falsely advertising that you have got 100,000.

So the conclusion is the expert manager, the bank manager, so, if some man in the establishment is absent, he can do the work immediately, because he has learned all the things. Bank manager becomes from the lower clerk. When I was manager in Bose's laboratory there was a strike. So there was no packer.

So I asked all the clerks to "Come on. Let us pack." As soon as we begin packing, the strike was broken. So a man claiming to be in the high position, he must be expert in everything. He must be expert in everything. So therefore a Vaiṣṇava is called dakṣa, expert. Expert. So our this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement being the highest, topmost quality, so in case we require to do the work, some lower quality, we cannot say that "I do not know." We must do it.

But we are not in touch with that quality. Prakṛteḥ . . . There is a verse, etad īśanam īśasya (SB 1.11.38). Just like Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being in this material world, but He is not affected with any of the qualities of the material world. That is therefore called nirguṇa. Nirguṇa means the material qualities cannot touch you. Similarly, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa also, when he is in service of Kṛṣṇa, he is also nirguṇa.

The material qualities cannot touch him. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). He immediately becomes transcendental to all the material qualities. But that does not mean I cannot act in the material quality. Kṛṣṇa is working just like ordinary prince. He was born of a king, in the royal family. But He has nothing to do. Na māṁ karmāṇi limpanti (BG 4.14). Kṛṣṇa is not affected.

Dhari māccha nāce pāni. There is a Bengali proverb that "You go to catch fish, but don't touch the water." You see? If you are clever, if you have that rod to catch fish, take out the fish, but don't touch the water. Similarly, for our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have to go in so many places. They are all materialistic, but we cannot become materialistic. We will take some service from a person for Kṛṣṇa's service. So we'll do some good to him, but we don't accept his quality. That should be our position.

So in this way we should know that bahu-rūpa ivābhāti. Ivābhāti. Iva means "just like"; ābhāti, "appears." Actually these are temporary. Bahu-rūpa iva . . . Māyayā bahu-rūpayā ramamāṇo guṇeṣv asyā (SB 2.9.2). Guṇeṣu, in the quality, asyā, of māyā. Eh?

Bali-mardana: Mamāham iti.

Prabhupāda: Mamāham iti manyate. Now, because we are identified with this body, therefore we are so much attached to this material world, "my" and "I." "I am this body, and I have got some bodily relation with somebody, so he is mine, she is mine." There are thousands of women, but because I have got one bodily relation with one woman, "Oh, she is my wife." There are thousands of children, and because one child is bodily related, that is my child. There are many houses, but the house in which I take rest, that is my house. There are many cars, but which car I use, that is my car. So this mamāham iti manyate.

The body is not mine, and in bodily relation, anything, that is also not mine. That is the conclusion. But due to the influence of māyā I am thinking, "I am this body, and anything in relation to my body, that is mine." So "my wife," "my children," "my house," "my family," "my society," "my country," "my nation," this is going on. This rascaldom is going on. It is very difficult. You see? The whole world is being pushed on with this "I" and "mine." That's it. The "I" is mistaken . . .

(aside) Don't sit like that. You must not show your feet to the Deity.

"I" and "mine." This is going on. Mamāham iti manyate. Janasya moho 'yam. This is called illusion.

So the māyā is acting very nicely to keep us under her control. Māyayā. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī (BG 7.14). Māyā wants to keep you under her control, every one of us. Why? Because we are offender to Kṛṣṇa, she wants to punish us, kick us very nicely. That is her business. And therefore she wants to keep under her control everyone. And therefore she has three qualities, tri-guṇa. Just like tri-guṇa. Guṇa means rope also. You have seen? In the rope there are three fibers. And three fibers, if it is twisted nicely and again twisted together, it is very strong rope. Tri-guṇa. So guṇa means rope. So we are bound up.

The verse? That . . . Na te viduḥ svārtha gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ . . . te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa tantra. By the stringent laws of superior authority, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. You are bound up, uru-dāmni. Uru means strong; dāmni means rope. Uru-dāmni, very strong rope. Just like big ship, immediately bound up on the pier by some rope. You have seen it?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A ship carrying thirteen thousand tons of goods, but the strong rope brings it on the pier. Then he cannot move. In spite of having good machine and in spite of so much strength, it is baddhāḥ, uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Julius Caesar, he was a great soldier, and she (he) became captivated by one beautiful woman. What is that? Cleopatra? You see? She's an ordinary woman, but because she had some . . . Every woman is beautiful, but it is through the eyes I see that "This woman is beautiful." Woman's nature is fair sex. By nature she is beautiful. But I see "This is beautiful," I am entrapped. Is it not?

There is a Bengali proverb, dekha yāra lāge bhāla . . . If I like somebody, it doesn't matter what he is or she is. There are so many instances. The attachment, there is attachment. There is no such hard-and-fast rules and regulation that "This man should be attached with this . . ." No. It is māyā's action. I become attached with somebody. That is going on. So māyā is acting so nicely, māyayā bahu-rūpayā ramamāṇa, and we are enjoying, ramamāṇa. Guṇeṣu asyā. Actually, that individual living entity is enjoying the influence by guṇeṣu asyā, influence by one kind of modes of material nature. Mamāham. And in that way he has form. The whole world is going on.

Just study this analysis of the whole world, this verse. This is Bhāgavata. By two lines the whole world is analyzed. Now you see the whole world is working under these two lines. Ramamāṇa guṇeṣu asyā. Guṇeṣv asyā. Ramamāṇo guṇeṣv asyā mamāham. And whole world is struggling: "This is mine. This is my country." "I am Japanese," "I am Indian," "I am German," "Let us fight. We shall take . . . For country we shall give our life." So many. And after death, where is your country? "Mister? Get up. Where is your country?" Just see. This is going on. Mūḍha. Mūḍha, all rascals, all rascals. All rascals from our angle of vision. Why . . .? It is actual fact. One who has got eyes to see who is a rascal and who is intelligent . . . Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal, we accept him. He may be very big man, but a very big means means amongst the rascals, another set of rascals, because they are also under the influence of māyā. Just like in the society of asses, one ass is singing,

(imitates ass noise)

they . . . ass feeling, "Oh, how nicely he is singing." (laughter) All asses. One ass is singing, and they appreciate. "Oh, great singer." And you are all, "Stop it. Stop it. Please stop it. Stop it. Stop it." This is going on. So all these leaders, all these rascals, they are all rascals. At least you must know. You may behave gentlemanly—that is your duty—but you should know that he is a rascal number one.

We don't hate anyone. Otherwise there will be no preaching. And Lord Jesus Christ said that you hate disease, not the man who is suffering from disease. That is very nice. So we shall hate this influence of māyā but not the man who is now under the influence. Then how we can preach? That is our business. Doctor knows that this man is infected with some serious disease. But if he hates, then he cannot make treatment. He requires treatment.

So if he hates, "No. He is diseased. I cannot go there," then how can . . . So we shall hate this influence of māyā. We should know how māyā is acting, but still, we have to do our duty, preaching work on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, sometimes taking risk also.

What can be done? This is the position of the world. All rascals, the so-called Ph.D., DAC, NAC. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura has sung one nice song: jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava tomāra bhajane bādhā: "My dear Lord, all this material scientific advancement of education, they are simply expansion of the three qualities of māyā. That's all." Jaḍa-vidyā saba māyāra vaibhava. They are all the different combinations. What is called? Permutation and combination? What is called?

Devotee: Permutation means a change.

Prabhupāda: So different qualities. All these, whatever you see in the material world, they are simply permutation, combination, like that, of the material qualities, tri-guṇa. Daivī hy eṣā guṇa-mayī mama māyā (BG 7.14). They are nothing more. So this jaḍa-vidyā, this material science, expansion of material qualities, so Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says the jaḍa-vidyā, this kind of education, they are simply expansion of material qualities. And they are simply impediments for . . . to advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The more you become technologist and attached to this material world, then more you go far away from Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So therefore we have to accept everything: nirbandhe kṛṣṇa-sambandhe (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.255). We can accept all this material advancement in relationship with Kṛṣṇa. We can accept a tape recorder—this is material advancement—but we can use it for Kṛṣṇa. We take the typewriter, but we use it for Kṛṣṇa. We take a car—we use it for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we don't want. What is the use of car? We can walk. But if for Kṛṣṇa's sake if it is wanted . . .

Suppose we are going to preach somewhere, and if you say, "Oh, this is material, māyā. Why shall I take it? I shall go, walk," this is nonsense. You take advantage. Sometimes they criticize that "You criticize material advancement. Why do you take car? Why do you take this?" No, we can take everything, because we see everything in relationship Kṛṣṇa. This combination of matter, that is all right, but it is Kṛṣṇa's matter. Bhūmir āpo analo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4).

So our vision is different. We are not under the control of māyā. At least we should be like that. Then we remain in the transcendental state. Otherwise all these people, those who are not working under Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are under the influence of these material modes. So therefore they are all rascals. They are mistaken. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's a rascal. This should be our conclusion.

So any question on this verse? It is very important. Every verse, Bhāgavata, every verse is illumination. (break) Therefore those who are yogīs, ramante yoginaḥ anante (CC Madhya 9.29), they are not desirous of enjoying this creation of māyā. Yoginaḥ anante. They want to enjoy in the association of the ananta, not māyā. Māyā is temporary. However māyā may exhibit in so many ways, it is temporary. This nice city or this nice country, this nice world, decorated—one day it will be finished, all finished. Pralaya-payodhi-jale dhṛtavān asi vedam. When there will be inundation, all these planets will be merged into water, finished.

Devotee: In the material world, we are bound by māyā, mahā-māyā. In the spiritual world, is there another relationship of yogamāyā?

Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā.

Devotee: Could you explain a little bit about that?

Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā means . . . Here, this is also Kṛṣṇa's exhibition of māyā, but it is temporary. In the another, spiritual world, that is also exhibition of Kṛṣṇa's māyā, but it is permanent. Here is a perverted reflection, we say. Just like shadow, shadow, the shadow of the tree in the water—everything is perverted, opposite. So that shadow is not the substance. The substance is there. On the bank of the river, that is really.

Similarly, the spiritual world is There also, everything is there. There are trees, there are fruits, there are flowers, there are men—everything is there, birds, beasts, everything. But they are all real. Here, bahu-rūpa. Bahu-rūpa means which it is not reality. That, this bahu-rūpa is also reflection, but it is not real. That is the difference. Ivābhāti. Therefore it is called ivābhāti: "It appears like that." Actually it is not. Just like in some shop you see so many ladies and gentlemen are standing with nice dress. What is called that . . .?

Bali-mardana: Mannequin?

Prabhupāda: Mani?

Sudāmā: Mannequin. Like doll. In department store.

Prabhupāda: Department store. But they are ivābhāti; they are not fact. Ivābhāti. It appears like ladies and gentlemen and so many things, but they are not fact. Therefore ivābhāti. Iva means "it appears like that." It is not fact. But actually there are ladies and gentlemen. It is simply an imitation. So spiritual world, actually. And it is ivābhāti; it appears like that. But those who are fools, they are attached to this ivābhāti. If somebody goes, "Oh, here is nice, beautiful woman. Let me embrace," that is foolishness. That is ivābhāti. That is difference. So therefore this very word is used, ivābhāti.

Actually it is all matter, but they have been changed into different forms. The Māyāvadi philosophers, they say, "It is ivābhāti. There is no form. Therefore make it formless." But our is that ivābhāti means there is form, but this is simply imitation. That is the difference between Māyāvada and . . . They say, "Because it is false, therefore reality must be zero. It is formless. It must be zero."

Śūnyavādi. Nirviśeṣa śūnyavādi. There are no varieties. They will say, "No varieties," and somebody will say, "No. It is zero." We say, "No. There is variety." This is ivābhāti. It appears like the reality; it is not real thing. The real is different. A comparison is given: just like water, the desert. There is no water, but it appears like water.

But that does not mean there is no water. As soon as you say ivābhāti, that there is reality, but this is not. It appears like reality. That is the actual meaning of ivābhāti. Iva, "like"; ābhāti, "appears." The snake . . . (break) (end)