711129 - Parikrama on the Way to Gokula - Vrndavana
(Śyāmasundara aside to tape: November 29th on the road to Gokula)
Dr. Kapoor: . . . Prabhupāda's time. Otherwise he would have have taped. Tape recording was not (break). The parikramā organized by Prabhupāda in 1932, you were there?
Prabhupāda: I think. Yes. Not all. I simply . . . I think you were also there.
Dr. Kapoor: I was there. My mother was there. I was initiated in Rādhākuṇḍa, you know. I was initiated . . .
Prabhupāda: Ah. I went there, Koṣi.
Dr. Kapoor: You joined at Koṣi? I see. That was a wonderful thing.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Such a parikramā has never been organized after that.
Prabhupāda: It is not possible.
Dr. Kapoor: Not possible. (break) (arrival at new location) It's a new bridge. Ye pull nayi hai? (Is this bridge new?)
Indian Man: Ji haan naya bana hai bahut. (Yes it is brand new.) (break)
Dr. Kapoor: Very old city . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Go to Daujī or Gokula? (break)
Indian Man: Dauji theek nahi vaise? (Isn't Dauji all right?)
Dr. Kapoor: Haan. (Yes.)
Śyāmasundara: What is Daujī?
Prabhupāda: Daujī is Lord Krsna . . . Balarāma.
Dr. Kapoor: Balarāma. Lord Kṛṣṇa's elder brother.
Śyāmasundara: His birthplace?
Prabhupāda: Kya hua? (What happened?)
Indian Man: Aur nahi jaa sakte aage. Nahi mandir toh prabhu aa gya. (We cannot go any further. But the temple has come prabhu.)
Prabhupāda: Aa gaya? Acha acha. (It has come? Okay good.)
Śyāmasundara: What is this place, Prabhupāda? Is this where Balarāma was born? Balarāma was born here? Or He had some pastimes?
Prabhupāda: No, it is a temple of Balarāma.
Śyāmasundara: Ah. (break)
Indian Man: Kya hai zara batao, kya leela hai isme. (Come here and tell me what is the pastime here.)
Dr. Kapoor: This place is the place of maternal uncle of Lord Balarāma, and He was born here.
Indian Man: Balarāma was born here?
Dr. Kapoor: This is the place of maternal uncle.
Guide: Ghar bhi nahi hai yeh, sasural nahi hai Balrāma ka janambhoomi hai. Janmstan hai Balrāma ji ka. Jo batate hain, galat kehte hain . . . (indistinct) . . . Yeh aathvi puri hai Balrāma ji ki. Alag janmsthan. Idhar se Bhagwan Dwaraka puri se Jagdish puri chale gaye Krishna Bhagwan . . . (indistinct) . . . Balrāma ji yahin prakat hue hain. Ye khas Balrāma puri . . . (indistinct) . . . Yeh Revati, yeh Balrāma ji ka . . . (indistinct) . . . avatar hai. Yeh . . . (indistinct) . . . Revati ji ka hai aur Dau Balrāma ji ka hai. Revati raja Revat ki beti rahi, Junagarh ki. Yeh jo batate hain . . . (indistinct) . . . Yeh janmbhoomi, Balrāma sthal jiske raja Balrāma ji. (This is not a house or in-laws house. This is Balarāma's birthplace. What people tell, they tell incorrectly . . . (indistinct) . . . this is the eighth town of Balarāma. Different birthplace. From here Lord went to Dvārakā then Jadishpuri after Lord Kṛṣṇa . . . (indistinct) . . . Balarāma appeared here. This is specially the town of Balarāma . . . (indistinct) . . . this is Revati, this is Balarāma's . . . (indistinct) . . . avatār. This . . . (indistinct) . . . is Revati's and is Balarāma's . Revati was king Revat's daughter, from Junagarh. What people say . . . (indistinct) . . . this birthplace is Balarāma's place whose king is Balarāma.)
Dr. Kapoor: Yeh wahi yeh baat batayiye. Wahi keh rahe hain. Janmbhoomi bataya angrezi mei. (He is saying the same thing. It is the birthplace said in English.)
Guide: Balram swayam prakat hue hain, saat puri nahi, aathvi puri hai Balraam ji ki. (Balarāma has manifested Himself here. Not seventh, but this is the eighth town of Balarāma.)
Indian Man: This is the birthplace of Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Birthplace of Balarāma. You are our paṇḍā.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, I am your paṇḍā. (laughter) I am trying to be your paṇḍā.
Prabhupāda: Doctor paṇḍā. (laughter) (break)
Dr. Kapoor: Bhaktisiddhānta Gosvāmī Maharaja Gaudiya Math ka mei panda hoon. Kesav maharaj, Madhav maharaj . . . (break) (I am the paṇḍā of Bhaktisiddhānta Gosvāmī Mahāraja Gaudiya Math, Keśava Mahāraja, Madhava Mahāraja . . .) (break)
Śyāmasundara: (in bus again) Did Nanda and Yaśodā live here first?
Dr. Kapoor: Who?
Śyāmasundara: Nanda and Yaśodā?
Dr. Kapoor: In Gokula. That is where we are going now.
Śyāmasundara: Then why was Lord Balarāma born here?
Dr. Kapoor: This is the maternal uncle's place and He was born here.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, maternal uncle's place. I see.
Prabhupāda: Ah, Śyāmasundara?
Śyāmasundara: Yes, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: What all money is being paid by him, you return it.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, yes.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) Barely paid five rupees. (laughs)
Indian Man: Yahan thodi der khada kar lein? (Should we stop here for a little while?)
Prabhupāda: Haan. (Yes.) (kīrtana) (break)
Prabhupāda: Lord Kṛṣṇa showed the whole universe within His mouth.
Śyāmasundara: Ah. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're looking for the driver, Prabhupāda. Right now he is not in the bus. (to devote) Can you blow the horn? (horn sound)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here he comes. Here he comes.
Śyāmasundara: Brahma-kuṇḍa is in Gokula itself? Hmm. Kṛṣṇa was raised in Gokula.
Prabhupāda: (break) London, it is always gloomy. You cannot find such bright sun; very rarely.
Dr. Kapoor: Very rarely.
Prabhupāda: Now it is December, snowfall there.
(break) Early in the morning at ten o'clock, and evening, half-past three. Only, say, about five or six hours day, and eighteen hours night, nowadays.
Dr. Kapoor: Yet it is so healthy there.
Dr. Kapoor: Yet the days are healthier, even though you have too little sun. (break)
Prabhupāda: . . . meat and drink liquor. That's there. According to Āyurveda, if anyone eats meat he flourishes in growing skin.
Dr. Kapoor: Skin, ah. (break)
Prabhupāda: We have got better brain, undoubtedly. (break) Idhar matti khane padega. (Will have to eat dust here.)
Śyāmasundara: This is where Kṛṣṇa used to live, in this very place?
Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa used to live in Gokula. Gokula is very near, I think.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, this is not Gokula.
Prabhupāda: Here He used to come to play. (break) So why not take bath here?
Devotee: You will take bath, Prabhupāda? You can take bath in the Yamunā?
Prabhupāda: Why not? Is it very cold?
Devotee: No, no. It is not . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: Here Kṛṣṇa used to eat dirt while playing, and His friend, will complain to mother, "Oh, your son is eating dirt." "Kṛṣṇa, You are eating dirt?" "No, they are enemies; they are telling lies. This morning we had some quarrel, so they have become My enemies and are telling lies." (laughter) And they charged again, "No, He has taken. He has taken. We have seen." "All right, open Your mouth. I want to see." And as soon as Kṛṣṇa opened His mouth, she saw whole universe within; therefore brahmaṇd. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the program here, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: If you like, you can take your bath. (break) We go to the Yamunā.
Indian devotee: Come on now, come with me. Sarasvatī, come with me. Take your bath here.
Prabhupāda: Is it very cold?
Sarasvatī: Very cold!
Śyāmasundara: Is it cold?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Warm.
Śyāmasundara: It's warm, they say.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Cold. (laughter)
Dr. Kapoor: Early morning is warm. Early morning about four o'clock, when you have bath . . .
Prabhupāda: Cold water for me is not good.
Dr. Kapoor: Should I make some arrangement to bring some water for you, Prabhupāda, if that is possible?
Prabhupāda: How can you? That is not possible. No, no, no. We can wash our head. (break)
Indian Man: Kyu koi gadha vadha toh nahi hai? Kapda bhi nahi hai hamare paas. (So there are no pits here? We do not have spare clothes also.)
Devotee: Nahi, nahi gaddha nahi hai. Arre toh, baniyan ko toh utaar do. (No, no there are no pits. Oh then at least take off your undershirt.) (break) (sound of water splashing and devotees bathing)
Indian Man: Bahut gehara hai ji. (It's very deep.)
Prabhupāda: Bahut thanda hai. (It's very cold.)
Indian Man: Thanda toh nahi hai ji. Theerth ka jal Maharaj ji. Nahi thoda theerth ka jal. Teerth ka vidhi, thoda mitti ka bhakshan, Bhagwan ne matka khaya na. (No it's not cold. The water of the holy place Mahāraja ji. No, a little water of the holy place. The ritual of the pilgrimage, eat a little clay, God ate clay so.)
Prabhupāda: Liya. Nahi, nahi liya hai. Sab pee liya hai. Haan, haan. (I have taken. No, no I have taken. I drank it all. Yes, yes.)
Śyāmasundara: (to Sarasvatī) Take your pants off.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything they can do, they add an extra rupee.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything they do, they will add a rupee.
Śyāmasundara: It's his river? He's charging? (break)
Prabhupāda: Why don't you take bath, eh?
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Everyone should take.
Indian man: Śyāmasundara is going to . . . (break)
Sarasvatī: . . . want to go down there?
Prabhupāda: She is going the other side.
Sarasvatī: Go down there.
Śyāmasundara: Will you come too?
Prabhupāda: (to Sarasvatī) Take all bath. Take bath. Śyāmasundara?
Śyāmasundara: She took. She took a bath.
Śyāmasundara: Yes, right there. She took a bath up to her waist.
Prabhupāda: Everything all right? If you take bath like this daily, all jaundice and everything will go away.
Śyāmasundara: Should I give her complete bath, Prabhupāda? Should I give Sarasvatī complete bath?
Prabhupāda: Why not? (laughter) (break) All go to the bus.
Śyāmasundara: Okay, everyone to the bus.
Sarasvatī:' I want to bathe.
Śyāmasundara: No, too late now.
Prabhupāda: . . . standing here. You can pay . . . oh, Kṣīrodakśāyī! Kṣīrodakśāyī! Tumhara pradhan kaun hai? (Who is your chief?)
Devotee: Ek unko dijiye, ek woh bhai ko dijiye. (Give one here and give one to that brother.)
Prabhupāda: Bhai ko? (To the brother?)
Devotee: Aao bhai idhar. (Come here brother.) Śyāmasundara! Hey, Śyāma! (devotees calling) Come here. Aa jaao idhar. Come here. Aap idhar aayiye. Uncha sunta hai. Yahan aao maharaj, panda ji. Ye bhai ye wala. (You please come here. He is hard of hearing. Please come here Maharaja, paṇḍā ji. This brother, this one.)
Prabhupāda: Give him five rupees . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . for this botheration, no gentleman will come here. They are losing their business, but still they will do.
Dr. Kapoor: They will never be satisfied with whatever you give—whatever you give.
Śyāmasundara: They make it so that you don't want to come back.
Śyāmasundara: The government can't do anything.
(indistinct comments by devotees) (break)
Prabhupāda: Kīrtana, kīrtana. (break)
Dr. Kapoor: This is the place where, while playing with His friends, Lord Kṛṣṇa took some earth in His mouth, and when He went back, Lord Balarāma told Yaśodā-mātā that, "Kṛṣṇa has taken some earth in His mouth." He said: "No, I have not taken any earth. Because these people, I defeated them by playing, so they are complaining against Me."
And then Lord Balarāma told Yaśodā-mātā, "You see inside the mouth of Lord Kṛṣṇa." And when Yaśodā-mātā saw inside the mouth, she found that all the Brahmās and, I mean, Brahmā, they were inside the mouth of Lord Kṛṣṇa.That is right this ghat, this river ghat, is known as Brahmāṇḍa ghat.
Prabhupāda: You can bathe here. (break) . . . kīrtana and let us go. (kīrtana) (break)
Śyāmasundara: (in bus) Vṛndāvana is up the river in that direct . . .? Vṛndāvana is up the river that way?
Dr. Kapoor: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: And where did Yaśodā and Nanda's house . . .? (break) Kṛṣṇa used to walk here from His house?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Playing with His boyfriends.
Śyāmasundara: How far away was His house? Miles?
Prabhupāda: Maybe a hundred miles. (laughter) (devotees shout obeisances as bus leaves)
Dr. Kapoor: It special you see, like . . . (indistinct) . . . so the material conception of distance and time doesn't apply, you see, and the Vṛndāvana is always in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you see? So when it is necessary that a particular place is a hundred miles from the feet of Kṛṣṇa, it will be hundred miles, and when it is necessary it should be only hundred feet, it is hundred feet. Do you follow?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is Yogeśvara.
Dr. Kapoor: He is Yogeśvara, you see?
Prabhupāda: And by His mystic power He can do everything.
Dr. Kapoor: Kṛṣṇa is not subject to time and space, you see, but time and space serve Kṛṣṇa, you see? It is absolutely different from what it is here. Yes. We have to submit to time and space, but in the case of Kṛṣṇa, time and space have to submit to Him. You see? (break) This is what you call bajra, grain. What do you call it in . . .? I don't know. (break)
Prabhupāda: Jowar. Hum log kidhar jaa rahe hain? (referring to grain) (Jowar. Where are we going?) (break)
Devotee: Ji hum log Gokula jaa rahe hain. Aage se Gokula milega. Yeh Mathura road hi hai vaise. Ji haan. Mathura road hi hai aur Gokula hum logon ko left mei jana hoga aage se. Board laga hua hai. (We are going to Gokula. Next will be Gokula. Actually, this is the Mathura road only. Yes. This is the Mathura road only and moving forward to the left, we will reach Gokula. There will be a signboard.) (break)
Dr. Kapoor: Gaadi toh jayegi nahi. (The vehicle will not go.)
Devotee: Pata nahi maharaj mereko. 10 saal aage gya tha. (I do not know mahāraja. I had visited 10 years back.) (break)
Śyāmasundara: What is that? Something is carried?
Prabhupāda: From there. Kṛṣṇa was carried from Kaṁsa's . . .
Guide: . . . wahan se Yogmaya ladki ko mandir mei leja karke raja Kansa ko diya. Itna samajhiye, "ki tu dusht Kansa mujhko kya marta hai, tere maarne wala Gokula mei Krishna Baldev dono bhai paalne par jhoolta hai." Koi Bhagwan paalne jhulta hai idhar. Ye sawa kos ke upar Quila hai maharaj ka. Iske upar . . . (indistinct) . . . bansi bajaya hai, raas rachaya hai, makhan churaya hai, mitti khaya hai . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . (took Yogmāya girl to the temple and gave to Kaṁsa. Understand this much, "That you evil Kaṁsa, you cannot kill me, but the ones who will kill you Kṛṣṇa, Baladeva are swinging in cradles in Gokula." God swings in the cradle here. Quarter kos (type of unit) from here on the top is the fort of Maharaja. On top of this . . . (indistinct) . . . has played a flute, has done rasa, has stolen butter, and eaten earth . . . (break))
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So this is where He was first taken, Prabhupāda? (break)
Prabhupāda: Yeh purana Gokula hai? Idhar kyu le aya? (Is this old Gokula?)
Indian Man: Yeh naya Gokula hai? (This is new Gokula.)
Prabhupāda: Idhar kyu le aya? (Why did you bring us here?)
Indian Man: Aapne bola . . . aapse humne bola thaa. (You all said . . . we had told you.)
Prabhupāda: Kaun bola? Kya bola tha? (Who said? What did you say?)
Indian Man: Yehi bola ki acha chalo udhar se. Udhar jo bola aap Brahmand ghat pe ki bus udhar nahi jayega bhitar tak. Aapko toh bola thaa. (Said that okay let's go from there. You all said at Brahamand ghat that the bus cannot go up till there. We had told you.)
Prabhupāda: Agar nahi jayega toh hum log paidal jaata. Gokula aur ek hai ke nahi. (If the bus couldn't go then we could have walked. Is there one more Gokula or not.)
Indian Man: Wahi jo Mahavan jisko kehte hain wahi waha par hai. Toh woh toh gaadi aapko kidhar lagega. Toh hum toh apako kaha thaa pehle hi. (There is a place that is called Mahāvana. So where would the vehicle go there.)
Prabhupāda: Udhar khamba hai? Udhar chalo. (Is there a pillar? Go there.)
Śyāmasundara: This isn't Gokula?
Prabhupāda: This is not original Gokula.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's Kṣīrodakśāyī wanted to go. Yes, this is not the original.
Prabhupāda: Then why they have brought us?
Devotee: They say one-minute walk from Gokula.
Prabhupāda: Three miles, four miles. We have come to Gokula. (break)
Śyāmasundara: Where is Gokula?
Dr. Kapoor: Gokula is from here a one-mile walk.
Śyāmasundara: One-mile walk? Oh, one-minute walk.
Dr. Kapoor: Not one minute, one mile.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's saying one mile.
Devotee: Is Prabhupāda going to have to walk one mile?
Prabhupāda: We have come to see Gokula. It may be one mile or two miles . . . why you have brought me . . .? Why we have been brought here?
Devotee: Why have we come here?
Dr. Kapoor: That is also Ballabhācārya's birthplace.
Prabhupāda: That may be, but we want to see the original Gokula.
Dr. Kapoor: Original Gokula . . . yes (break) (end)