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710705 - Conversation - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

710705R1-LOS ANGELES - July 05, 1971 - 63:20 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . simply our literatures are meant for selling not for reading, is that very good sign? Reading first, selling secondary.

So you tasted this śukta?

Devotee: Yes, very nice.

Prabhupāda: Very nice? You have also tasted?

Karandhara: I had a little that was left over that was cold.

Prabhupāda: Never mind . . .

Govinda dāsī: It's delicious.

Prabhupāda: Indian dishes, especially in Bengal, Bengal especially, the śukta is the beginning. Śāk and śukta. Beginning vegetable and śukta, in the beginning. And at the end, milk, banana, sweet. Eating: beginning bitter, ending sweet. Madhureṇa samāpayet. All kinds of tastes: bitter, sour, pungent, gradually ending in sweet. That is eating.

Catur-vidha. Catur-vidha-śrī-bhagavat-prasāda (Śrī Gurv-aṣṭaka 4). Carvya, cūṣya, lehya, peya. Something chewing, something . . . what is called? Licking, something swallowing. Carvya, cūṣya, lehya, peya. Cūṣya, cūṣya means just like a lozenges. What is called? Just not taken at once. What is?

Devotees: Sucking.

Prabhupāda: Sucking, yes. Sucking, cūṣya, sucking. Carvya, chewing. Chewing, sucking, swallowing and drinking. Four kinds of food must be there: carvya, cūṣya . . . catur-vidha. Catur means four, and under four headings there are many items, tastes. That is tastes: bitter, sour, salty, pungent and so on. Then that is variety, this . . . variety is the mother of enjoyment. Then you enjoy eating.So it was cold, it was not tasteful?

Karandhara: Oh, it was nice.

Prabhupāda: This flame was not nice, otherwise it would have come still better. There was some defect in the flame, so it absorbed more ghee than necessary.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the phone came?

Devotee: Washington.

Prabhupāda: Who was talking?

Devotee: Kālindī.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa.In India we have spent not less than five lakhs of rupees, in so many ways. That has been collected only by selling books. Only Birla paid me twenty-five thousand for purchasing . . . (indistinct) . . . otherwise whatever collection is there and is spent, it is the books. Huge festivals in Calcutta and Bombay—two lakhs.

And I have toured over all India—Calcutta, Bombay, Delhi, Amritsar, Indore, Surat . . . Gorakhpur, Rajamandri. In these places I was present. Disciples, they have independently gone Agra, Ahmedabad, Vṛndāvana. And our monthly expenditure is more than ten thousand rupees. We are paying four thousand rupees' rent in two places, besides touring and eating. So all this money has been collected by selling this Kṛṣṇa Book and Nectar of Devotion, the magazine.

Why not here? India is not English-knowing country. And here all of them are English nation. We should make vigorous propaganda for this membership program, and there is no financial difficulty.

Devotee: Today we distributed a thousand Back to Godheads.

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Devotee: Nine hundred and ninety three to be exact.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That's all right. 9-9-3. So you work Back to Godhead together. So you collected at the rate twenty-five?

Karandhara: Oh, much more than that.

Prabhupāda: Much more than that?

Karandhara: I think we averaged about forty cents a magazine.

Prabhupāda: You have collected about five hundred dollars?

Karandhara: Should be four hundred and fifty or five hundred dollars. I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: I think that Dai-Nippon says that he shall print 200,000 copies. Send them money and take it. Distribute.

Karandhara: As it is, there is . . .

Prabhupāda: Dai-Nippon is a good patron. They are giving us credit, up to 100,000 already. In BTG fund they are allowing us seventy and eighty thousand dollars, and Book Fund $20,000. Why should we not take advantage of it? They give us goods worth $100,000, and we make profit and pay. Why not make this arrangement? For, say, 50,000 worth dollars goods we take from him, we make at least $200,000. Is it not?

So where is this financial crisis? Simply you have to organize distribution. You haven't got to pay from pocket Dai-Nippon. Pay whenever. Collect and pay. That, for this arrangement, I went there. Collect unpaid. But actually, at least in India, I did not take any money from here. Simply I ordered books there, and with that books we made so much work on collection. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So organize. That is our, I mean to say, material financial difficulty as well as making propaganda—distribution of literature. Your have not gone into the actual reading public: schools, colleges, university libraries. They are only on the street. But the scholarly reading public you have not yet touched. Is it not? Scholarly reading public means libraries, schools, colleges, universities. But you have not touched them. You are simply distributing on the street.

Our literature is meant for higher section, scholarly section. That section we have not yet touched—philosophers, religionists, highly intellectual public. We are meant for that, our literature. That you have not touched yet. So we should endeavor to deal with it. What these great delete philosophers will speak before us? We have got so much stock. They can simply present some theories or thesis, and we can defy all their . . . you are better delete than they are.

Dhruva Mahārāja, by his meditation, he startled the whole universe. And we are so many, and by our devotional service we cannot startle? What is that word? Startle? Hah? The whole America. Is it not possible? That is possible. If we go according to the prescribed, we can startle by that spiritual power. That is possible. I am explaining now in my tape how Dhruva Mahārāja startled the whole universe by his spiritual meditation.

In Calcutta we defeated Ramakrishna Mission. Nobody is going there.In India we have now cut down all the svāmīs. Everyone is thinking of us, not of them. There are so many big, big svāmīs—Chinmayananda Swami, Vivekananda Swami. Now people are talking about us. They are bringing Vivekananda . . . as soon as our talk is there, he gives reference to Vivekananda, and he is doing more than Vivekananda. But we are doing many millions times more than Vivekananda. What Vivekananda has done, and what he has power to do? What does he know? But if we say like that, that will be little pride. But that's a fact.

Vivekananda's institutions are here for the last eighty years, or more than that. He started in 1893. Vivekananda came here, in America, in 1893 and started a center in New York, 72nd Street. But in comparison to their center and our center, there is ocean of difference. Here, Los Angeles, they have got their branch?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And what they are doing, and what we are doing, ISKCON's right here. Similarly in New York. And where they have got . . . I think in America?

Karandhara: They have one in San Francisco. They have about ten in America.

Prabhupāda: Ten.

Karandhara: Ten.

Prabhupāda: And we have got forty in three years. And in eighty years they have established ten. And how many American students are there working for them? They are . . . every center is conducted by Indian svāmīs. Is it not?

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And where is the Americans are working? Huh? For working their missionary work they have to bring from India svāmīs, but here American svāmīs are working, in our branches. Where is the Indian svāmīs? Before my coming I was talking with Bon Mahārāja. He was of opinion then you can talk of our philosophy only, but if you try to convert them, then it will not be successful. That is not preaching. You have to take them to your philosophy. That is successful preaching. That is what my Guru Mahārāja . . .

Otherwise what is the preaching? Simply talking? Because he did so. He never attempted. He was three years in London. Not a single person came to understand this philosophy, and later on Guru Mahārāja was disgusted and called him back. Guru Mahārāja sent him, that "You go and create some situation, then I shall go." But he could not create that situation. This is our telephone? Nobody is there?

Karandhara: I think everyone is at ārotika.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Sit down, sit down. Don't bother. At least one man should remain in the office. That Nixon meeting, is that . . . is there any attempt to do it?

Devotee: Not yet, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Because we did not know what Your Divine Grace was going to do, how long you are going to be here. And as I mentioned, we wanted to try and get one with a couple of other people first, because we thought it would be a better chance to get it with Nixon if you want—that is being attempted—and if Mayor Lindsay first.

Prabhupāda: Who is that?

Devotee: Mayor Lindsay.

Prabhupāda: Mayor Lindsay?

Devotee: Mayor Lindsay, of New York City.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Mayor. Oh.

Devotee: Some years ago his office wrote a letter . . .

Prabhupāda: He was Lindsay?

Devotees: Lindsay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Lindsay. Yes. He is important.

Devotee: Yes, he is very important. Then we thought we would try for Nixon.

Prabhupāda: Unfortunately, these leaders, actually they do not want people should be very intelligent. You see? They want to keep the people in ignorance and exploit their ignorance for their personal benefits. That is their policy. Actually they do not want welfare of the citizens. They want only post, and bluffing the citizens they want to get vote and sit down. That is their policy, all these politicians.

They have no thinking how people will be happy. That is beyond their dreaming, neither they want it. But actually these position—this mayor or governor or topmost head—they should be thinking of the welfare of the people. But it is just opposite. Instead of thinking of their welfare - how to exploit them and make his position secure. That's all. Therefore I do not expect any good result by seeing people like that.

Devotee: Should we continue? Should we bother with them?

Prabhupāda: Bother in this way - if you can arrange some meeting, inviting some of these big men, and if some big men come—just like here we can do, some big men—then subordinate big men will come. Then we get a chance to present our philosophy. In that way you can try it. Do you follow what I say?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If . . . suppose the governor is coming in our place, and you invite the magistrate, the judges, the secretaries, big, big men, they will come. Now when they are assembled we can present our philosophy. And public will see, "Oh, such, such big men, they have come." So we get some publicity. Otherwise you cannot get any other benefit from it. They are politicians. They are not interested that people should go back to home, back to Godhead.

They are interested that they must remain foolish and pay tax and enjoy, that's all. That is their position. And you cannot expect from rascals. All bad character rascals, cheater. That is my opinion. Cheater number one. They have no good wishes for the people at heart. So how we can convince them about our good philosophy? They don't want that people should be advanced in philosophy, in religion, in character. No. They don't want. They want to keep them in darkness.

Devotee: So should we continue seeing these men, these congressmen and senators?

Prabhupāda: Provided that you can arrange a meeting of them. Individual seeing is no good. It will not produce any good effect. Now you can . . . suppose that if we say that we are not allowing illicit sex. Do you think they will like it very much? If the rascal is himself addicted to these habits, so what will be effect of our . . . if we say that we are training our students to this principle, character, they will laugh, because they don't want that the citizens should be so advanced . . . (indistinct) . . . life.

They want to make them thief, cunning, rascal, drunkard, so that they can exploit. That's all. Now that boy, Ranchor, his father was canvassing, "What is wrong there in illicit sex?" His father, "Take a car, enjoy girls. Why not?" like that. His father was instructing. His father was like that; his mother was like that. His . . . he told me all this. The only benefit we can derive that if they become a member, then that membership will lead many others to become, "Oh, Nixon has become member? I shall become." That's all.

Because they are their ideal. Nixon has become, ah, then whole America will become, if you make Nixon member. If that much you can do.Somehow or other that, "It is a good movement, and it is only 1100 rupees, a good cause. Please become a member." Somehow or other if you can do that, then his membership will help you to recruit another 100,000 members.

Devotee: I don't see how we can convince Nixon. Nixon is the worst of the lot.

Prabhupāda: That is . . . then utilize; otherwise it is very difficult to convince them about our philosophy. They are themselves rascals. All of them are drunkards, illicit-sex hunters, meat-eaters, gamblers and everything. All good qualifications. And they are in the higher position. If you go instruct them, they will: "Ah, these rascals, they are begging, and they have come to instruct me!"

Because their idea is that, "This religious sect, they could not do anything in the material world; now they have taken the shelter of the spiritual world." They think like that. Because they have no meaning for that, anything of spiritual, they do not understand.

Each airplane company has got at least five hundred to one thousand planes, and there are so many companies, many thousands of planes. Each airplane is flying, but we can see hardly one accident. Many thousands are flying—only your country; I am not speaking of other countries. Many thousands of planes are flying, day and night, Europe and America. Space is so big. Koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam (Bs. 5.40). And there are many crores of planets. Each planet has different character, different climate. What they are talking about that Russian failure? Capsule?

Karandhara: I haven't heard the latest news on that.

Prabhupāda: Capsule. Capsule dead. They will create platform?

Karandhara: Yes. That's what they are attempting. A space station.

Prabhupāda: It is not station; it is moving. And how the station will help them? What is the idea?

Devotee: They hope to stockpile materials and build one rocket ship up in the station, and from there they can send the rocket ship off. They want to assemble one rocket out in space that will be suited to travel to other planets.

Karandhara: When they shoot a rocket up from the earth they have to spend so much energy just to get it off the earth. They figured they will conserve by being able to shoot it from outer space.

Prabhupāda: So first of all, suppose twenty-five thousand miles away they have got a station, then they go there. Then? What is the benefit of it?

Devotee: Well the most difficult part is getting out there, because the earth's gravity burns up all their fuel. So they need many small rockets to bring up all the parts and put it together and then shoot it from there. Because just getting from here to there takes most of the energy to overcome that gravity. When they get up there there's no more gravity; they are free to travel freely.

Prabhupāda: What is their idea? I could not understand.

Govinda dāsī: It's insane.

Devotee: I'm not sure whether it's correct, but they have to have so much fuel, which takes up a lot of room, to get them from earth to, say, Mars, and most of that fuel is consumed getting away from the earth's gravity. But if they were to build a rocket ship away from the earth's gravity, they wouldn't need so much fuel and they could get it to Mars and back with a smaller ship, with less fuel.

Prabhupāda: And how that ship will go?

Devotee: The same fuel, but less. They can't make a rocket ship big enough yet to carry all the fuel they need to get them to the planets they want to go to and then back again.

Karandhara: It's like a middle station.

Devotee: Yes. It's like a filling station.

Prabhupāda: But the filling matter must be there, material.

Karandhara: They will transport that up by many small rockets. They'll shoot many small rockets carrying supplies, and then they will stockpile them.

Prabhupāda: How utopian.

Govinda dāsī: It's insane.

Prabhupāda: Childish. And they are claiming to be scientists. Small rockets . . . they will also finish. Small rockets also consume so much fuel. How many hundreds of small rockets have to be sent? And the fuel has to be taken from here. Just see. How they are making themselves . . . if the supply, everything has to be taken from here, it is just like picnic in the sky—take everything from there and hold a picnic there. Like that. So much huge quantity of gas, petrol, required, and they will be carried from the station, another station. Simply dreaming.

And before executing the plans, so many men died. And still they are hoping. First of all let them finish their moon planet business. What they have done about the moon planet? Why again they are aiming at Mars or Venus? Go to moon planet. Your flags are there—go live there. They are selling land there also, there was advertisement. And many people purchased return ticket. Is that fact?

Karandhara: That is some advertisement they are doing, yes.

Prabhupāda: So what happened to these ideas? Why not make a colony? That's a good idea. But they said that no living entity can live there, at the same time? Then what is the use of going there? What is the exact idea?

Karandhara: Well, their idea is they will make . . . one idea is they will build a big dome, and they will just create an atmosphere, just like what's on earth. So the only way they can live there is to bring the earth there—all the atmosphere, all the things.

Devotee (2): Then they are hoping there will be mineral resources they can exploit on the moon.

Prabhupāda: And how to bring them, the minerals?

Devotee (2): Oh, they can build up there, make factories and . . .

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Devotee (2): They can make factories and make more rockets on the moon.

Prabhupāda: They say like that?

Devotee (2): Yes. Another station.

Prabhupāda: By covering them with that dress which cost over $40,000. (laughter) And they will run on factory? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: pralayāntām upāśritāḥ (BG 16.11) thinking of, planning for, sense gratification till the time of death. Just like all big men—Jawaharlal Nehru, Gandhi—simply making big plans—Hitler or Churchill. And before executing the plan, everything is finished. So many Hitlers and so many Gandhis and Jawaharlal, Churchills came and gone. Nobody could improve the situation of the world. Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, so many came, and the world is going on in the same way, pralayāntām upāśritāḥ.

So why they do not make factory here? There are so many deserts and barren land, rocky land. From airplane you can see. In Canada there are hundreds and thousands of lakes. From the plane we could see it. So why they do not make development of this land if they are scientist? Thousands of miles desert and rocky land, unutilized. Australia, that is not bad land—very nice land—but no work there. Thousands and thousands. I think one percent or two percent of Australia land has been utilized. So why they do not utilize these lands? What benefit they will derive by going?

Karandhara: They are also eager to gain more, but they are not even using what they have. They just want to get more and more and more.

Prabhupāda: Piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna (Prema-vivarta). Pramatta. They are being called pramatta: intensely mad.

Devotee: Yes. Intelligence—they have no . . . their intelligence is stolen by sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Intensely mad. Nunam pramatta. Pramatta, this very word is used. Instead of utilizing the human form of life intelligently for real purpose, simply wasting. Bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These words are used. Unnecessary they have created some . . . what is called? Bharam. Bharam means falsehood. What is the exact English word, bharam? To make a show which has no utility. That is called bharam. When that first aereonautic, aeronaut from Russia, one boy, went and traveled around the world for one hour twenty-five minutes . . . Russia it was?

Karandhara: I think the United States was first to do that. Russia had the first sputnik, but the United States had the first spaceman.

Prabhupāda: So that man who went, he was received by India, and Jawaharlal Nehru received him. Now nobody talks about him. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. In the Bhagavata the exact wordings are so nice. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). The happiness derived out of it is māyā, illusion. It has no substance.

But for that purpose they have made so much gorgeous arrangement. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). Bhagavata is the only literature in the world meant for very highly intelligent class of men. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (SB 1.1.2). Highly intellectual persons will understand Bhāgavatam very nicely. Try our best.

Devotee: So at least these highly intelligent men, Śrīla Prabhupāda, ah, they're not in the government. These men are not in the government. Actually they are in the education.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: The professors and advanced students.

Prabhupāda: But at the present moment the professors also addicted with these four prohibited. They are lusty, drunkard, gambler. The priests also. All servants of māyā.

Devotee: We still have nowhere to go except the young people to make devotees.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Less vitiated, less contaminated. Actually that is happening. Our . . . somebody asked me in Paris a question, "Why younger generations are attracted?" And I immediately, "Because they are not so polluted." The older generation, they're polluted, it will take time for forgetting what they have done. The younger generation, they are receptive and they are not so much polluted. They are not old fools.Actually that is the fact.

So old generation, they are sophisticated. By nature younger generation they are inquisitive and receptive, by nature. Therefore from the very beginning if they are given good guidance, their life is successful. That is the Vedic civilization. Just like that small boy. You ask him to offer obeisance, he does. Doesn't matter what will happen in his future life. But this life he is so innocent, you could train him. Just like your son: the training from the very beginning, just like we have been trained by our parents—and that makes value. So our New Vrindavan was meant for training small children, and that is not being done. Then? What is the use of it? What for it is now being used?

Devotee (3): Well, the money . . . all the money has been used for acquiring land. Now there is one building that they are beginning. You have seen a plan.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (3): That is the first modern building to be constructed. Already they have begun. They have bulldozed the land. They haven't built the house, but they have bulldozed the land; they've leveled the land.

Prabhupāda: Which portion?

Devotee (3): Hmm?

Prabhupāda: Which portion of the land?

Devotee (3): Oh, you know . . . you remember where the school, that little white schoolhouse was, by the road? At the beginning of the road.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Schoolhouse it is known.

Devotee (3): Yes. Not far from there, up higher, where some trees are. I would say maybe a hundred yards back down the road, the macadam road. Off the road, in the trees.

Prabhupāda: That is our land now?

Devotee (3): Yes. It is very nice. We have all the hay we need now. So many hay fields. Before we were purchasing, expensive. But now there is enough hay for all the cows. So Hayagrīva prabhu's plan is to continue the construction gradually. And with this building, if this building is done properly, there will be a place for the children.

Devotee (2): That will be the place?

Devotee (3): At least there's room. The children don't have to live in that building necessarily, but there has to be some bathing facilities.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee (3): The bathing facilities would be in that building.

Prabhupāda: So there is water supply?

Devotee (3): I don't know the details.

Prabhupāda: Oh. In the śāstra it is said that when there are many hills, it attracts lightning. Is it a fact?

Devotee (3): I don't know, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Karandhara: They have lightning rods on all the houses.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Karandhara: They have lightning rods on their houses.

Prabhupāda: Lightning?

Karandhara: Lightning rods. You put them on the house, so if the lightning comes it will strike the rod and will be grounded into the ground.

Prabhupāda: The rocks are broken. You have seen sometimes rocks are broken? Huh? So that is due to lightning. Just like we sometimes break the rocks by dynamite, nature's way, as soon as rocks are out from the sea, by nature's way they are broken by the lightning, and then gradually level land comes. So the thunderbolt generally falls on the hills. Is it a fact? Huh? That is stated in some ślokas in the . . . example is given. Ah. When Varāhadeva killed that Hiraṇyākṣa, this example was there.

Just like the lightning thunderbolt shatters the hills, immediately He broke the big giant into pieces. This example. Therefore the big hilly tract of land attracts thunderbolts. Then that tract of land must be inviting some thunderbolt? Because West Virginia is full of hills only, is it not? That is very good for living condition?

Devotee: I haven't heard of a lot of lightning striking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Hayagrāva prabhu has never mentioned a lot of lightning.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Hayagrāva prabhu has never mentioned that there has been a lot of lightning striking. I haven't heard. There's also an alternative to temporary. Bhagavān dāsa prabhu has gotten this house, additional to the temple in Detroit. It's the . . . a big carriage house with facilities. He has suggested . . .

Prabhupāda: Carriage?

Devotee: Carriage house. Like a garage, behind the other house. This has rooms in it, everything—full house, with facilities. Perhaps the children could go there and attend school. That's a possibility we discussed. To keep them together.

Prabhupāda: All airplanes, they are made by Boeing company?

Karandhara: No. There is two big ones: Boeing and Douglas.

Prabhupāda: Douglas?

Karandhara: Douglas.

Prabhupāda: Where it is?

Karandhara: It's in Long Beach, Lakewood. Not far from here.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Throughout the whole world they are manufacturing?

Karandhara: Yes. Douglas is very big also. Not as big as Boeing, but very big.

Prabhupāda: Because all airplanes I see: Boeing. So there are so many companies they are taking supply from Boeing.

Karandhara: Boeing is the biggest.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is Seattle?

Karandhara: Seattle . . . Boeing has factories all over.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Karandhara: Seattle, Los Angeles, all over the United States.

Prabhupāda: In Europe they are also being supplied? No. France they have got some factories.

Karandhara: Yes. They supply all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: Boeing supplies all over the world. In fact in Seattle . . . Air India bought two of those great big ones in Seattle. We were going to get some free rides there, but Air India, they decided not to give them to us.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Karandhara: Air India, they bought two great big 747 jets, like the one you went to Hawaii in when you left here.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Karandhara: They bought two big ones, and they were bringing them to India. So we inquired from them if we could have some free passages to India.

Prabhupāda: Ha.

Karandhara: So at first they said we could, but then they changed their mind and said we couldn't. The man in Seattle, the Air India man, said we could. The Air India man in New York said no, he wouldn't let them do it. So it's too late. They have already gone to India.

Prabhupāda: They will go empty, India?

Karandhara: No. They sold seats to diplomats and people, other people, at a discount rate. They sold seats. (end)