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710702 - Conversation - Los Angeles

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

710702R1-LOS ANGELES - July 02, 1971 - 43:15 Minutes

Prabhupāda: The fighting must be there, but that does not mean separation. I fought with my wife all along, yes, but there is no question of separation. I have . . . I have since made provision for my wife . . . (indistinct) . . . so one must be responsible. Marriage is not a joke.

Govinda dāsī: In this country it is such a joke that it is hard for them to understand.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

(break) . . . of marriage, there must be some struggle, but the marriage is required. They have introduced new . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: We have never had a single marriage in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: We have never had a single marriage in Hawaii, although we have been here two and a half years.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Govinda dāsī: I guess because . . . (laughs) I don't know. No one wants to get married. Because it's a serious thing, it is not taken lightly. (break)

Prabhupāda: Why did not . . . (indistinct) (break)

Gaurasundara: Fourth of July, Independence Day weekend, so . . .

Prabhupāda: Independence Day you are free?

Gaurasundara: No. But there's so much traveling that it becomes too . . .

Prabhupāda: Crowded.

Gaurasundara: Yes. So perhaps we will wait.

Govinda dāsī: 'Til Monday.

Gaurasundara: Until Monday.

Prabhupāda: There is very much crowd?

Gaurasundara: Pretty much.

Prabhupāda: People are coming or going?

Gaurasundara: Coming and going.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this Independence Day will be observed?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Govinda dāsī: In the United States.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: It is American Independence.

Prabhupāda: But it is observed in New York especially, no everywhere?

Gaurasundara: Not particularly. In Hawaii they are shooting off firecrackers all night. Everywhere, everybody is throwing firecrackers.

Govinda dāsī: It sounds like a war, and it smells like gun smoke.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Govinda dāsī: It sounds like a war . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Govinda dāsī: . . . in Hawaii. It is so bad, firecrackers going all the time, it sounds just like a war. And you smell the powder, gunpowder.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere?

Govinda dāsī: No, especially in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Hawaii was included when America declared independence?

Gaurasundara: Oh, no. About five years ago. No, I think it was . . . I think it was 1960 it became a state.

Prabhupāda: 1960.

Gaurasundara: There was 48 states for a long time, and then about the last 10 years, Hawaii and Alaska were added, made 50.

Prabhupāda: At that time, before that, Hawaii was under some king?

Gaurasundara: No, Hawaii was a territory. It was a United States Territory, but it wasn't attached to the United States.

Prabhupāda: Territory means, er, conquered?

Gaurasundara: Well, it was . . .

Prabhupāda: Occupied by force.

Gaurasundara: Well, it was purchased, purchased from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee: No, that was Alaska.

Gaurasundara: Oh, Hawaii was . . . yes it was, more or less taken over by Americans. It was also a territory.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why don't you . . . (indistinct)

Gaurasundara: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . tomorrow is also . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: Yes, maybe . . . (indistinct)

Gaurasundara: Yes, tomorrow is . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: At what time? I wish I had known . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is this called? . . . (indistinct)

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . so many . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: Do you need a new sweater, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Govinda dāsī: Do you need a new sweater?

Prabhupāda: I have got many.

Govinda dāsī: Ah, never mind.

Prabhupāda: Sweater I have got many now.

Gaurasundara: One.

Govinda dāsī: One. Is it that saffron one?

Prabhupāda: I got . . . last year I got over one dozen.

Gaurasundara: But not here.

Govinda dāsī: You gave them all away.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: You gave them all away. (laughs)

Gaurasundara: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: I distributed some in London; I distributed some here. (Govinda dāsī laughs)

Devotee: And in India there are still many.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: In Bombay there are still many. There are so many clothes in Bombay from the devotees. One . . . one girl here, she was asking what she could make for you. And I suggested that she should make a sweater. And she . . . (indistinct) . . . the devotee that come in . . . come in said please . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That is nice. The spirit is nice.

Devotee: So I told one girl . . .

Prabhupāda: To do something, to serve something, that is the way of understanding Kṛṣṇa.

sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
(CC Madhya 17.136)

When you have the service attitude, then Kṛṣṇa becomes pleased. Whole process is service, according to one's capacity. So it is not required in that one has to serve in this way or that way. No. The spirit should be service to the best capacity. Take, for example, I came here with a service position, that I must give some service to my Guru Mahārāja, not that I thought of success. But the spirit was that Guru Mahārāja told me I must do something, whatever I can. It may be failure; it may be success—let me try. This service spirit is the only goal. There is no other way.

You must be a servant—either you're a servant of māyā, or the senses, or Kṛṣṇa. You cannot become master. We are all servant. The so-called karmīs are servant of their senses, that's all. They're working so hard, being servant of their senses. The karmīs, they are servant of sex, that's all. That is their encouragement: they are working so hard, they will enjoy sex. That is their only solace. Is that not? What other things they have got to enjoy? The are simply suffering, simply suffering, working hard; their only satisfaction is enjoying sex. That is the center: the servant of sex. All karmīs.

Not only karmīs, everyone—all animals, all beasts, everyone—servant of sex. And the human so-called civilization, they have made arrangement: big sex interest. They are advertising sex, their theater is sex, their club is sex, their home is sex. What do they know beyond sex? So they are servant of sex. Is it not? Servant of sex, senses. Sex is the ultimate sense, but there are many other senses. Tongue is sense, ear is sense, nose is sense, eyes are sense. Eh? Then genital is sense. The sense organs, different.

So everyone is servant. Somebody is servant of Kṛṣṇa, somebody is servant of sex. If you remain servant of the senses, you are never happy. If you became servant of Kṛṣṇa . . . you have to remain servant; you cannot be master. Rather, if you serve Kṛṣṇa then you become master of your senses. That is gosvāmī. To become servant of Kṛṣṇa means master of senses. So the senses cannot now order, "You do this." "No, I am engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service." Therefore he becomes master. Then he becomes gosvāmī. Go means senses, svāmī means master. When you become master of the senses, then you're gosvāmī. And when you become servant of the senses, you are godāsa.

Now our whole process is to become servant of Kṛṣṇa so that automatically I become master of the senses. There is no separatedness. One becomes servant of the king, he gets a post, master of the citizens. Is it not? Minister, big post, secretary. He becomes servant of the king or state but becomes master of the people, governor. So if you become servant of Kṛṣṇa, you become master. Otherwise you remain servant of senses. If somebody says that, "What is the wrong to remain servant of the senses? After all, I am servant. Instead of becoming servant of Kṛṣṇa, if I remain servant of senses, what is the wrong? Tell me."

Govinda dāsī: They are never satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: They are never satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the . . .

Govinda dāsī: They are never . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: A little service to Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa is so kind and He is so much satisfied. And here, you go on serving . . . they're never satisfied. The servant of the world is said that he . . . my practical example, that I have made provisions for my wife and children so they can simply eat and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, but still they want me to become their servant. So dangerous . . . (indistinct) . . . hmm?

Even if you keep them very nicely, still they will require your service.What does he do, what . . . (indistinct) . . . never happy. You cannot make happy, māyā's servant. But if you give little service to Kṛṣṇa, He immediately . . . (indistinct) . . . and immense profit. The māyā is so strong that you go on the best service, life long, we still we will find no satisfaction.

Therefore the service attitude is the only process to elevate oneself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And this automatically. Why these girls and these boys, why you are all trying to serve? That is natural. It is natural. Kṛṣṇa is not directly contacted, so Kṛṣṇa's representative that, that attitude, "Let me serve to the servant of Kṛṣṇa." That is good policy. And we have to accept this. We cannot deny it. The service spirit will be . . . otherwise I don't require anyone's service, by living alone. And now we are creating so many servants of Kṛṣṇa, when they offer some service, we accept . . . (indistinct)

Actually I don't require service; I can remain alone. I was doing that, (laughs) actually. But when preaching was there, the creating servant of Kṛṣṇa, then I have to accept, to encourage them, to train them. That is spiritual master's business. But the service is accepted on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, not for personal benefit. I cannot accept any service for my personal account unless I serve Kṛṣṇa. I serve Kṛṣṇa means I make you a perfect servant of Kṛṣṇa. So I have to train. That is my . . .

Gaurasundara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can I cut up one of these mangoes for you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

(break) Come on. Very good.

Govinda dāsī: (indistinct conversation with Gaurasundara)

Prabhupāda: No . . . (indistinct) . . . what is that?

Gaurasundara: Govinda dāsī suggested that I peel like this, because sometimes there are some worms.

Prabhupāda: Worms?

Govinda dāsī: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do they have worms in them in India? There is a little bug. It stings the skin, and if it stings the skin there may be some tiny, tiny worms.

Gaurasundara: I should peel the whole?

Prabhupāda: No.

Gaurasundara: Peel it off?

Govinda dāsī: He can't eat it like this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Govinda dāsī: (laughs) That's how we eat it in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: I am expecting . . . (indistinct)

Gaurasundara: They might do it. They have done it before. No more? You want me to . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Govinda dāsī: (laughing) It's the sweetest sweetball I've ever had.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Who has made it?

Gaurasundara: I think Śilāvatī.

Prabhupāda: Śilāvatī is good cook . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: Would you like for me to cut it?

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is . . . (indistinct) . . . in mango season, my father used to purchase a full basket. In India they are sold in baskets. They were very cheap in those days. Three rupees, a big basket at least containing more than hundred mangoes, first-class mangoes. Otherwise one rupee, two rupees. So in our childhood we take each mango, and while playing, we were eating like this, in this way.

Govinda dāsī: The children in Hawaii, they are always eating mangoes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Govinda dāsī: Their faces are always yellow from eating.

Prabhupāda: I remember I was traveling with my father . . . (indistinct) . . . a train, and he gave me a big mango. At that time I was small, so all sides had become moist with mango juice, and when it is dried up, I was feeling so much inconvenience, but there was no water. Finally, I knew how to undo it. I remember that precarious time. (pause)

Govinda dāsī: That's how we eat them in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: That's how we eat them in Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Hmm . . . (indistinct)

Govinda dāsī: I prefer to eat them that way. Gaurasundara will not eat them unless they are cut into little pieces.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: I prefer to eat them like that. But Gaurasundara will not eat mangoes unless they are cut into little pieces. They are juicy.

Prabhupāda: How Kṛṣṇa has arranged. How is nicely cut, it is total juice. Still they cannot keep all.

Govinda dāsī: They come in such abundance, just during the heat of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Govinda dāsī: They come in such abundance, just during the heat of the sun or whatever such fruit is needed.

Prabhupāda: In Russia there was no mango, no fruit or nectar. Whatever you have prepared, you have to take from government's store. Stand up in the line, wait for one hour, two hours. And for meat, you can get easily.

(long pause)

Manufacture such a nice thing in your factories. Then you say that there is no God. In the name of becoming scientist they are so fools and rascals. What do you think? Do you admit or not?

Gaurasundara: Yes. They sent . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gaurasundara: Did you know the Russians sent three men to space for twenty-four days? Did you hear that?

Prabhupāda: I was . . . I was hearing from Karandhara.

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What happened? They are dead.

Gaurasundara: Yes. They were talking with them on the radio, and everything nice, and then when they landed they opened the capsule and they were dead. And they thought perhaps that's why they died. They think because they were in weightless condition, they could not return any more to the earth's surface.

Prabhupāda: All nonsense. What is the benefit of sending a man in that condition? Simply propaganda. Unlearned. In that senseless way, why they come back on this planet? Why not other planet? What was the idea?

Gaurasundara: Oh, they want to establish a space station. They want to build like a building up in space, floating around the earth.

Govinda dāsī: They've completely lost their minds.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Govinda dāsī: They've completely lost their minds. They don't even know their ideas anymore . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Rāvaṇa tried to make a staircase for going directly to heaven, it is like that. Rāvaṇa said that, "Why there should be religious life for going to heaven?" Just like they are also challenging that, "Why one should be religious, godly, for being elevated to the heavenly planets? We shall go by missile." That is their plan. So this challenge of Rāvaṇa class of men is always there. You cannot conquer the laws of God or nature by Rāvaṇa's mentality.

That is not possible. You can try, but it will never be successful. So the result is instead of establishing a platform, they establish a dying. That is the natural result. But still they are proud of their science. Why don't you write?

Gaurasundara: Yes, I should write.

Prabhupāda: And they cannot explain why he died. What is the advancement? What is the next . . . or what is the actual result of this expedition?

Gaurasundara: They become very depressed.

Prabhupāda: They have written?

Gaurasundara: Yes. The whole Russian nation is shocked.

Prabhupāda: Then they will be depressed more and more. Your Lenin or Stalin cannot save you. They await more depression. In a godless country you will simply be depressed. Note it down. Māyā bhraṣṭa divesena. When one becomes too much attached to the influence of māyā, they talk like that and become disappointed. Again attempt, another; again disappointment.

There is a story in India. There is a province, Orissa. The people of that province are very cowardly. There is a story of the Orissan man that one man, he was quarreling with him, so he challenged him, "All right, you have said you can slap me. Slap me. All right. I am . . . (indistinct) . . . slap me." So he slapped in this way. "Oh, you have slapped me. All right, you have slapped this side. I see you have slapped this side, again you slap this side." Still he said: "All right, you have slapped enough. You can slap . . . can you can slap my son?" and slap. So the slapping is going on, and still he is challenging.

These rascals are like this. Nature's slapping is going on, "All right, now better this attempt, and this attempt, this attempt." Exactly the same theory after . . . (indistinct) . . . in every item they are being failure, but still, "All right. Slap me. Attempt like this." The Americans, they advertise they have gone, and they brought some dust, without any profit.

They are also proud. And the Russians, they are killing so many men, and afterwards they are proud. "All right, this was failure. All right, try again." The same slapping process. Nature is slapping, seriously, but still, "All right, you have slapped in this way. Can you slap like this?" . . . (indistinct)

They are so shameless, shameless rascals. They have no shame even that, "we have been proved, useless. You stop this rascaldom." No. They will, "Another. Slap me in this way." That I have seen. This is going on. In every respect they are being slapped, but still challenging, "All right, you can slap. You can slap me in this way." We have . . . (indistinct)

Why they have become successful? Still they are proud of their learning. Simply wasting time and teaching others to waste time. This is going on. From time in memorial, Rāvaṇa's society like this. Hiraṇyakaśipu tried to become immortal. So these attempts are going on perpetually, but history proves that nobody has become successful. When this news came?

Gaurasundara: The one yesterday?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. What was the heading?

Gaurasundara: "Three die in space."

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Govinda dāsī: In the Bible also there is somebody who tried to build a tower of Babel.

Prabhupāda: What is that story?

Govinda dāsī: I don't know.

Gaurasundara: They tried to build one tower to Heaven

Prabhupāda: Ah. And what happened?

Gaurasundara: It failed. The whole thing broke.

Govinda dāsī: It smashed.

Prabhupāda: (aside) What is that?

Devotee: Śacī-suta prabhu requests that you chant on some new beads for him.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee: He said he lost his old tulāsi beads a year ago, and he needed some others. That's why he asked. Also there is one set of beads from one prabhu on saṅkīrtana.

(aside) So you like Gaura-śakti prabhu.

Prabhupāda: So I am enjoying this mango in this way.

Devotee: I am enjoying mangoes, so many mangoes. Can I ask you one more question, Śrīla Prabhupāda, about these initiations? Tomorrow's the last batch.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee: There are (counting) three, four, five, six . . . there are eight for . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee: There are eight for harināma initiation and nine for gāyatrī, but one of the names for gāyatrī is Loka-mālā, which you have just initiated, either today or yesterday, Loka-mālā. But she is supposed to be married to one boy who is a brāhmin this Sunday coming. She is supposed to be married to one boy who is a brāhmin, and so they are recommending her for second. Is that all right?

Prabhupāda: When she is . . . (indistinct)

Devotee: She is going to be married this coming Sunday.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Devotee: That is all right?

Prabhupāda: So building up the platform in space is faster?

Gaurasundara: Yes. If they go up, they cannot come back again. They have to stay there.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Gaurasundara: If they go out and live on that platform, they cannot return again to earth. Because their heart can no longer pump; it becomes lazy, and when they return to the gravity the heart is smashed. So it means that if they go up there, then they have to stay.

Prabhupāda: That proposition is nonsense. Either they can stay, and if they come, they die. That is good proposition. (laughter) Why not stay here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Like that. But your position is that, "You go, we cannot stay there. We have to come back." And if you come back you die. So why not they should stay and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and then prepare yourself to go to the highest planets, or any other planet?

Kṛṣṇa can give you any other planet you like. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja wanted his father's kingdom, so Kṛṣṇa gave him . . . (indistinct) . . . gave him the polestar. That is Dhruva Mahārāja's kingdom. Kṛṣṇa can give you anything you want. Why you bother yourself with that? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

So we are the most intelligent persons in the world, because we don't take such foolish trouble, but we are assured through injuction of the best planet, or wherever we want to go. So the mūḍhā, they will not accept this. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15).

They will never become Kṛṣṇa conscious, because they are rascals. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ. They are always sinful, eating meat. They cannot do this. They will travel like . . . (break) (end)