680825 - Conversation - Montreal
Prabhupāda: All these universes, all these planets, all the suns and moons, sky and everything, they have come from the original source, the Absolute Truth. Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited?
So the theory, nonviolence . . . nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when a violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and Arjuna was denying to fight, but Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight. So the fighting was good, because it was the will of the Absolute Personality of Godhead. Therefore at the end of understanding Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna agreed, "Yes, I shall fight."
So fighting for the matter of executing the desire of the Supreme Will is also absolute. It is not different from Absolute Truth. So sometimes it is . . . just like we sometimes see mock-fighting, because that fighting spirit is there. The father and son, the little son is fighting with the father. That is not fighting, but the mock fight. But the fighting spirit is there. You cannot deny it.
Similarly, the fighting spirit is there. Sometimes that is exhibited by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And He wanted to exhibit such fighting spirit, so who will fight with Him? Ordinary living being cannot fight with the Supreme Lord. Therefore some of His devotees, some of His associates, must fight with Him.
Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that Arjuna was inquiring from Kṛṣṇa that, "You say that millions of years before, You spoke this Bhagavad-gītā yoga to the sun-god." Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). The Lord said that, "Many, many, many, many millions of years before, ago, I explained this science of Bhagavad-gītā to the sun-god." Now, to eliminate any doubts in the mind of ordinary persons like us, Arjuna inquired that, "Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. We are almost of the same age. How do you say that You explained this Bhagavad-gītā millions and millions of years ago to the sun-god? How can I believe that?" In answer to this question, Kṛṣṇa said that "Both you . . ."
(break) ". . . descended on this material world many, many times, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the nature of ordinary living entity. The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa.
So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us . . . (indistinct) . . . when fighting should be taken. Fighting is not very good thing, but if there is necessity . . . just like in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was organized by two rival parties. One party was pious; another party was impious. So Kṛṣṇa took side of Arjuna, and he was victorious. That is the history of Kurukṣetra fight.
So the Lord wanted to exhibit His fighting spirit. And who will fight with Him? Therefore two of His devotees were resigned that they should go in the material world and fight with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Because in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no question of fighting. There is no enmity. Everyone accepts the Supreme Personality of Godhead as the protector, as the master, as the Lord, and they serve faithfully. So there is no question of fighting.
In the material world everyone wants to be the lord, everyone wants to be God, so therefore there is fight. The fighting here takes place because everyone wants to lord it over the material nature, so there is difference of interest. I want to be lord, you want to be lord: now there must be fight. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is one Lord and all others servitor. Therefore there is peace.
So fighting was not possible in the Vaikuṇṭha world—therefore these two doorkeepers were sent to the material world by the plan of the Supreme Lord so that they could fight as Hiraṇyakaśipu and Hiraṇyākṣa with the Lord. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Now, the spiritual spark is entering into the material world, penetrating seven layers. This is called avyakta, non-manifested. Just like in the sky there are non-manifested and manifested things. If you go high, some twenty-five thousand, fifty thousand miles up, you'll simply find in the sky nothing manifested. But if you go still higher, higher, higher, you will find so some other planet existing.So the part which is nonmanifested is called avyakta and the part which is manifested that is called vyakta. So, these two souls from Vaikuṇṭha , they are coming into this material world. So they are penetrating the non manifested matter. As the matter . . . five elements - earth, water,fire,air, ether. And then . . . these are gross elements, and there are subtle elements . . . mind, intelligence, ego. And then spiritual.
Our body is composed of three things the spirit soul, and it is covered by subtle body mind, intelligence, ego and then gross body. Earth, water . . . earth, water, fire, air, ether. So this universe, this universe is only one universe but there are millions of universes and they are covered with the gross and subtle elements. And penetrating the gross and subtle elements. When one comes to the sky there are innumerable planets.
The planets are seen or the suns and stars like that. So the two souls Jaya and Vijaya, they are coming on this earth and there is . . . (indistinct) . . . now they came as demons because they have to fight with the Supreme Lord. The devotees will not fight. The devotees are servitor . . . but the atheists, the demons, they are always inimical to the Personality of Godhead. That is the nature, demonic nature means they do not believe in God. Oh, what nonsense God. I am God. Although he is a dog, he thinks himself as God. That is demonic nature.
These being kicked every minute by the laws of nature and still, he is super . . . appreciate a thinking that I am God. God is not so cheap. But they have made to become God is very cheap. If you pay thirty five dollars to a person, he will give you a mantra and you become within six months God. This is very nice statement and people will follow. Thousands and thousands will follow.
But if you say oh, we have to undergo much austerity penance regulation and tapasya, oh this is botheration. We shall enjoy material life at the same time become God. These cheap things are exhibited by the demons, and when a demon is born,the natural disturbances are there. When there are natural disturbances, we must know that there is some demonic principle. That is stated in the all vedic scriptures. At the present moment because we are increasing daily demonic principles . . . a demonic population is increasing, we are meeting with so many disturbances.
So when these two demons . . . playing the part of demons, they also took birth on this planet. There are so many disturbances and this picture is there, that so many disturbance has been created at the time of their birth. . . . (indistinct)
So when the demons become full fledged human being. Body . . . demons and . . . there are two classes of man, one is called demon and another is called demigod or God. The demigod . . . the difference between demons and demigod is that the demigods, they are also human being but they obey the Supreme Personality of Godhead and they believe in the Supremacy of the Supreme Lord. But the demons, they do not believe in the existence of God or they obey the Supremacy of the Lord. That is the difference between demons and demigods. In the Bhagavad-gita also and other scripture also you find:
- Dvau bhūta-sargau loke
- 'Smin daiva āsura eva ca
- (BG 16.6)
There are two classes of man. Man means living entities. Either in this planet or any other planet, but in this planet the number of demons are great. Not in other planets. So, there are two classes of man, one class is called demon and other class is called god or demigod, and what is the difference between them? Viṣṇu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ. The godly person, who are devotee to the Lord, they are called demigods and āsuras, tad-viparyayaḥ. Asura means demon. They are just opposite . . . (indistinct) . . . they are very much against anything . . . they want simply . . . cheaply to become God. That is their demonic principle.
So when there was fight, the demons are always very much inimical to the gods. If you . . . there are many man . . . you have got experience, some of you. That if you speak something about God, they become very angry, what nonsense God, I am God. Everyone is God. What is special qualification of God? This is demonic principle.
So there is always, not now, there is always a fighting between the gods and the demons. So when these demons grew up with full fledged strength, by the grace of the Lord. So they fought with the demigods in other planets, and sometimes the demons become victorious sometimes the gods became victorious.
So when the god became victorious, Hiranyakashipu, his wife was arrested. At that time his wife was pregnant.And the demigods, arresting the wife of Hiranyakashipu, was dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet. In the meantime Narada Muni met. Narada Muni ask them what were you are doing. This innocent women you are dragging. They replied that, "The women is innocent I know." . . . the head of demigod Indra.
But she is pregnant and the child is born of the demon, so we shall keep this women under our custody . . . and as soon as the child is born, we shall kill him. That is our program. We are not going to do any harm to the women. Then Narada Muni informed that this child, although he is born of his demon father, he is a great devotee. He is a great devotee and do not try to kill him. And neither you can kill him, this is not possible. But the demigods, they accept the instruction of the authority, Narada is an authority.
So immediately they accepted, that this women has got the child who is a great devotee. So in order to show respect to the child, they offered their obeisances and circumbulated the mother and they left the women, they went to their own places. And Narada advised the wife of Hiranyakashipu, “My dear daughter, you don't worry, I shall give you protection”.
Your husband has gone away, so long he does not come back I will give you protection. You come to my ashram. So he took the women to his ashram and as it is the duty of saintly person to instruct about God and His activities.
So he was daily explaining about God and His activities and the child was hearing from the womb of his mother. Mother was anxious to give protection to the child but the child was fortunate that he was hearing directly from the Narad. And as a result of this when the child came out of the womb of his mother, he became a great devotee (break)
Devotee: Will you go and steam up (someone laughs)
Prabhupāda: It's quarter to nine . . . (indistinct) . . . all right, next day we shall discuss . . . later (break) (end)