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680623 - Lecture SB 07.06.06-9 - Montreal

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

680623SB-MONTREAL - June 23, 1968 - 82:28 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa)

om ajṣāna-timirāndhasya
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
sthāpitaṁ yena bhū-tale
svayaṁ rūpaḥ kadā mahyaṁ
dadāti sva-padāntikam
vande 'haṁ śrī-guroḥ śrī-yuta-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca
śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitaṁ taṁ sa-jīvam
sādvaitaṁ sāvadhūtaṁ parijana-sahitaṁ kṛṣṇa-caitanya-devaṁ
śrī-rādhā-kṛṣṇa-pādān saha-gaṇa-lalitā-śrī-viśākhānvitāṁś ca
he kṛṣṇa karuṇā-sindho
dīna-bandho jagat-pate
gopeśa gopikā-kānta
rādhā-kānta namo 'stu te
rādhe vṛndāvaneśvari
vṛṣabhānu-sute devi
praṇamāmi hari-priye
vānchā-kalpatarubhyaś ca kṛpā-sindhubhya eva ca
patitānāṁ pāvenebhyo vaiṣṇavebhyo namo namaḥ
śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya prabhu-nityānanda
śrī-advaita gadādhara śrīvāsAdi-gaura-bhakta vṛnda
hare kṛṣṇa hare kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa kṛṣṇa hare hare
hare rāma hare rāma rāma rāma hare hare

So Prahlāda Mahārāja's proposal is that kaumāra ācaret prājno. Intelligent. Who is intelligent? He should begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from childhood. Not that we have to wait. And he is presenting an analytical study of the whole life, that unless we begin Kṛṣṇa consciousness from childhood, hardly there will be opportunity to practice this transcendental method.

Because in the beginning he has said that this life, human form of life, is very rare. The present educational system, they do not know it, that how important this human form of life is and how it has to be utilized. So that is being explained. So he is analyzing the whole life, that puṁso varṣa-śataṁ hy āyuḥ (SB 7.6.6). Accepting that we have got one hundred years of life, but we have to waste half of it, fifty years, by sleeping at night. So immediately fifty years minus. Niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ śete 'ndhaṁ prāpitas tamaḥ (SB 7.6.6). When we sleep, we have no activity. We cannot make any advance, any department of knowledge. Sometimes we sleep more by intoxicating habit. So niṣphalaṁ yad asau rātryāṁ. The whole night is wasted, because we cannot produce anything.

There are two kinds of production: material production and spiritual production. Arthadam. Artha means factual profit. So there are two kinds of profit. Those who are materialists, they calculate profit by dollars, and those who are spiritualists—they calculate profit, "How much I have advanced today in spiritual or Kṛṣṇa consciousness?"

Both of them are profits. So either make this profit or that profit, but don't waste your time. That is the proposal. But the best profit is, for human form of life, to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he has analyzed that mugdhasya bālye kaiśore krīdato yāti vimśatiḥ (SB 7.6.7). So fifty years immediately minus from our life. Then, by playing in youthhood and in childhood, another twenty years. Seventy years minus. Then jarayā grasta dehasya yāty akalpasya vimśatiḥ. Then, when old age come, by disease, by invalidity, another twenty years minus. That means fifty plus twenty plus twenty. Out of hundred years, ninety years gone. Then:

durāpureṇa kāmena
mohena ca balīyasā
śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya
pramattasyāpayāti hi
(SB 7.6.8)

The balance ten years, because the whole life we have spoiled in material activities, in the balance, ten years are wasted, "What I have done, and how to pull on? Oh, this was not successful. How I have to make successful? This boy was not educated. That boy was not properly brought up. He has gone out home . . ." so many anxieties. That means if we do not practice from childhood, then in the advanced age it is not possible. That is the proposal of Prahlāda Mahārāja.

There is a proverb in Bengali that kaṣcaya noyale bhas pas korbe nyastas. Bhas means bamboo. Bamboo, while it is green, you can bend it, but when its yellow, or dry, oh, it cannot be bent; it will break. It will be break. Therefore schoolchildren . . . just like Prahlāda Mahārāja is instructing his class fellows. Schoolchildren, from five years old, they should be given lesson about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Otherwise, in advanced age, oh, it is not possible.

Generally, we find in our class or in this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, the youngsters, they become little more interested, but we don't find any old men. Why? Because whatever they have been taught, oh, they cannot forget. It is very difficult to forget what he has been already taught. So they do not become interested.

ko gṛheṣu pumān saktam
ātmānam ajitendriyaḥ
sneha-pāśair dṛḍhair (baddham)
utsaheta vimocitum
(SB 7.6.9)

"One who has passed his life simply being attached to household affairs, sneha-pāśair, and when the affection of household life is too strong, it is very difficult to get out of it." That will be very nicely explained, one after another.

Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory get-out from household life. Compulsory get-out means paṣcāś ordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. Paṣcāś means fifty years. As soon as one passes over fifty years of age, he should get out. That is the injunction of the scriptures. No more in household affairs. The life is divided into four parts, four divisions.

First of all brahmacārī, just like Prahlāda Mahārāja is teaching. Brahmacārī, a boy from five years old is taught, and up to twenty-five years. And if he is not . . . of course, he is properly taught, but if he is not properly convinced that "Worldly life is botheration. Better remain brahmacārī for throughout the whole life . . ."

There are many brahmacārīs in India still, naistika-brahmacārī. They are called naistika-brahmacārī. That means they had never any experience of sex. They are called naistika-brahmacārī. Just like my Guru Mahārāja was naistika-brahmacārī. He never married. So boys are taught like that, the inefficiency of this family life, encumbrances, because the aim is to advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So we have to minimize our bodily necessities of life and we have to expand the spiritual necessities of life. That is the perfect way of civilization. In the modern age, the more we can increase the demands of . . . artificial demands of the body, it is called civilization. And when one is engaged, minimizing the demands of the body and utilize the valuable time for advancing in spiritual consciousness, they are accepted as uncivilized, or not advanced, in so many words.

But actually, India's civilization was based on this principle. We can find in the history of old days that they knew everything. From the books we can understand they had advanced knowledge for material civilization. Because we find description of aeroplanes, description of television. But they were used very, I mean to say, only limited circle, not that extensively. Because the whole process of civilization was not to divert your attention too much for material advancement, but whatever little span of life you have got, just utilize it for spiritual advancement and get out of this material entanglement. That is the basic principle of civilization.

Therefore the social life, human society, was divided into eight divisions. They are called varṇa and āśrama. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, you will find, cātur-varṇyaṁ māyā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13): four divisions of society, for spiritual advancement and for material advancement both. For spiritual advancement, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa.

So first twenty years, twenty-five years, or twenty years, because education begins from five years . . . up to five years the child is given full liberty—whatever he likes, he may do. Lālayet paṣca-varṣāṇi (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita). It is said that you can give liberty to the child only for five years. And tadayet daśa-varṣāṇ: and as soon as he is on the fifth year, you must be very strict on the child, on the boy, so that he may not be spoiled. Very strict. Simply engage him in proper education. Tāḍayet daśa varṣāṇi. And prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varse: and as soon as he is on the sixteenth year . . . ṣoḍaśe means sixteenth year. Prāpte tu ṣoḍaśe varṣe putraṁ mitravad ācaret: the son, the boy, should be treated as friend. No more punishment. Then there will be reply. So there must be restraint.

So from sixteenth year to twenty-fifth year, higher education. And after higher education, if the boy is still after sense gratification, he should be allowed to get himself married and enter into family life. That family life is allowed for another twenty-five years. When youthhood is very strong, let him beget some children and . . . of course, there is regulation of children. One has to take care of the children and he has to educate children, not that irresponsibly begetting children. No. So family life.

Then as soon as he reaches fiftieth year, or little advanced, when he might have a grown-up child at home, then the father and mother leaves home. Paṣcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. The gentleman, when the boy is grown up, he may get his boy married and get out of home. The wife may remain with him as friend, but there is no sex life. That is called vānaprastha. Vānaprastha means retired life. And that is also another training.

First training is brahmacārī, so that when he becomes householder, he lives very restrained and regulated life. And then, after satisfying his senses, when he is grown up to fiftieth year, he is advised to get out: "No more sense gratification. Now you prepare yourself for the remaining days of your life for spiritual culture." That is called vānaprastha. So vānaprastha means retired life and training for completely renouncing this worldly life.

And when he is prepared, the wife is asked to go back home. The grown-up boys will take charge of her. The woman is always protected. In childhood she is protected by the father, in youthhood she is protected by the husband, and in old age she is protected by the grown-up boy. That is the system. She is never given independence. In the Manu-saṁhitā it is stated, na striyaṁ svatantratam arhati: "Woman should never be given independence."

That is good for him . . . for her. Yes. Just like a child should not given independence—then he will be spoiled—similarly woman also should not be given independence. That is the injunction of Manu-saṁhitā. They should be always given protection. The child, woman, brāhmin, the cow and the old man—they should be given proper protection. That is the injunction.

Anyway, the vānaprastha, when the gentleman is completely educated for renouncing this world, then he sends back the wife to grown-up boys and he takes sannyāsa. This is sannyāsa dress. This is preparing, not preparing is finished. Sannyāsa means he should distribute spiritual knowledge from door to door. That is his business. He has no family attraction, he has nothing to think for his maintenance, because the society is advised to take care of brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa.

Just see. This is spiritual communism. One section of people, the householders, they have to maintain the three other divisions. We have divided the society into four divisions: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. Only the gṛhasthas are allowed to make money, to earn money. But the brahmacārī and the vānaprastha and sannyāsī is to live at the cost of the gṛhasthas.

Brahmacaris shall go from door to door and beg alms and bring it for the spiritual master. The spiritual master is a sannyāsī. So whatever the brahmacārīs bring, they cook and they eat, and they cultivate spiritual Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the system. That means it is the duty of the gṛhasthas, or the householder, to maintain the other three section of the people. And that is varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ (SB 1.2.13). Or another place you will find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that the perfection of varṇāśrama, these four divisions as we have stated . . . and in the gṛhastha there are still four divisions. That divisions are brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya and śūdra. Those who are doing intellectual works, just like studying philosophy, science, astronomy, so many intellectual works, they are called brahmins.

And those who are in the administration class, they are called kṣatriyas. Those who are in production, mercantile industry for producing things, they are called vaiśyas. And those who are laborer class, they are called śūdras. So these eight divisions. And that is known as varṇāśrama-dharma, the institution of eight divisions.

The Hindus means those who follow these eight divisions of human society. That is called Hindu. Now it has become a name only, but actually this is . . . actually this is Hindu religion . . . this is not Hindu religion. This is actually the occupation or the basic principle of human civilization. If you do not divide human society in such eight divisions, there is no proper advancement of human society's ultimate goal. The ultimate goal is to make perfect in this life or to realize the Absolute Truth. That is ultimate goal.

In other place the Bhāgavata says . . . the ultimate goal, they do not know. Not nowadays—in all the days there are a class of men who are called demons, and here Prahlāda Mahārāja instructing to the children of the demons, those who have no idea of what is the ultimate aim of life. They are called demons. The Āryans and the demons, sura and asura.

Āryan means those who are advancing. And those who are static, not advancing . . . static means limited with the animal propensities of life, āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam (Hitopadeśa 25): Eating, sleeping, mating and defending. This is animal propensities of life. And when there is question of spiritual advancement, that is called human society. Because the spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, cannot be injected in the animal society. So na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi visnum (SB 7.5.31): they do not know what is the ultimate goal of life.

The ultimate goal of life is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to understand God, to understand oneself, "What I am, what is God, what is my relationship with God." This is human civilization. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is trying to instruct his class fellows like this.

So he says that unless you practice from childhood, when you will be grown-up, then you will be encumbered with so many things that there will be practically no possibility. And this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement, by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, is recommended in this age, because that classification of eight divisions of human society is gone, and it is not possible to introduce it again.

I am not speaking that it cannot be introduced in this country or that country. Even where it was being practiced, in India, there also it is gone. There also it is in the name only, that which you have understood . . . you have perhaps heard "The caste system." The . . . instead of accepting the scientific division of the human society, they have misused it in the form of caste system. Just like a person, a gentleman born in the family of a brāhmin, he is brāhmin.

But originally the idea was different. The originally idea is, in the society, those who are intellectuals, those who are engaged in intellectual work, they are called brāhmins. To understand Brahman, to understand the situation of this world, they understand spiritual knowledge. Those who are engaged in such cultivation of knowledge, they were called brāhmin. But at the present moment anyone who is born in the family of the brāhmin, he is called a brāhmin. But actually he may be a cobbler. But that is not the idea.

So, these eight divisions of human society, scientific division of human society, is now lost. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu instructed that kalau, "In this age," nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā (CC Adi 17.21): "There is no other alternative for advancement of human society's goal of life." Because human society is meant for advancing in the goal of life, and that goal of life is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says . . . that is the sublime gift of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. And Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī adored Him, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53): "My dear Lord, You are the most munificent, magnanimous incarnation, because You are distributing love of Kṛṣṇa." This is very rare thing, love of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa personally failed.

He canvassed, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66): "You give up everything. Just surrender unto Me, Kṛṣṇa, personally." But nobody surrendered; only a few persons of the Pāṇḍavas, Arjuna, Bhīma, or the gopīs in Vṛndāvana. But at that time there were others. And later age, people misunderstood Him. But the idea is that Kṛṣṇa also came to distribute love of Kṛṣṇa, but He actually could not induce people to this cult. They misunderstood Him.

But Lord Caitanya, by His grace, by this saṅkīrtana movement, He very easily distributed this love of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore He is called namo mahā-vadānyāya: "My dear Lord, You are the most magnificent, munificent personality, incarnation, because," kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53), "You are distributing kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, the most important thing, the goal of life." And that was the mission of Lord Caitanya.

He said kalau, in this age, when everything has become topsy-turvied, there is no more chance for systematizing the whole human society. It is lost. The regulating processes are lost now, and neither it is possible to reintroduce it. It is not possible. People have become so much degraded that it is not possible. Therefore direct method. Direct method: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will revive your old consciousness. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā: "In this age there is no other alternative, there is no other alternative." The so-called meditation, yoga or karma, jnāna, mental speculation—everything will fail. They are, of course, standard processes, but that is not possible to execute at the present age. What is to speak of present age, even five thousand years ago, when Arjuna was taught to learn yoga system . . .

That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, the practice of yoga, the sitting posture, the breathing exercise, and controlling the senses and regulating eating, sleeping. So many things, they are recommended. And after hearing, Arjuna said: "My dear Kṛṣṇa, it is not possible for me." Actually, Arjuna was a fighter, a military man. Where is his time to practice this meditation, all these things? He frankly admitted. But we are so proud that we want to surpass even a personality like Arjuna.

So these things are not possible in this age. If somebody is imitating, that is simply imitation. So imitation has no value. The real thing is this meditation: you chant and hear. This is meditation. Meditation means to absorb your mind in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is meditation, real meditation.

In all the standard scriptures and in yoga practice formula, the whole aim is to concentrate one's mind in the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is called samādhi, samādhi, ecstasy. So that ecstasy is immediately brought by this chanting process. You begin chanting and hear for the few seconds or few minutes, you immediately become on the platform of ecstasy.

Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommended this process not only for India but for all the people of the world. He said that pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126). Pṛthivī means "on the face of the world"; ache, "when there is." Nagar means "towns," and grāma means "village" or "county." So He said that "As many villages, towns or counties, the human society, there are on the surface of the globe," sarvatra pracāra haibe more nāma, "My name"—means Lord Caitanya's name, because He introduced the simple method of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa—"will be celebrated." That is His prediction.

So we can see practically also that somehow or other, in your country this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is introduced practically only for one year, but it is being popularized. People are taking it very seriously. Even some places where I never visited, they are organizing centers. I have received information from Buffalo, from Atlantic City. One little boy, Terry, he is organizing.

He has invited some of our brahmacārīs to go there. And I have received letter from Germany, from Holland, they also have begun chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. In England, the Beatles, or Beatniks, they are also chanting. So this is getting popular in the Western country, and it will get, I am sure.

So this chanting process introduced by Lord Caitanya should be seriously taken up so that our aim of human life will be successful. We have forgotten. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). We have forgotten. The modern civilization has . . . in your country I was reading a little history that in 1813 or some year the government introduced that, "We trust in God," "Trust in God," and that was declared by the secretary to be published on the coins or on the paper currency, and we see sometimes. But simply trust in God is not sufficient. We must know what is God.

Trusting something oblivion, something fantasy, that is no trust. You must know where to put your trust. That is Bhagavad-gītā. You have to know this, what is God. You simply believe in God . . . faith in God is very nice. That is said then the . . . very nice. It is better than godless person, that one who believes in God. That is all right. So this writing that, "We trust in God," it is very good. It is better than the Communist countries, who say: "We do not trust in God." It is better. But simply official writing or trust will not do. We have to understand.

And if you want to understand God, then this is the movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other alternative. You cannot place any other scripture collected from the world where the science of God is so elaborately stated, which you can test with your all reason and argument. That is Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

So we have to learn the science. As you are learning so many department of knowledge, similarly, this is also another department of knowledge, to learn the science of God. The government should come forward to popularize this movement and to educate people in the science of God. So in the Bhāgavata it is said, jṣānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijṣāna-samanvitam (SB 2.9.31): "The science of God is, or the knowledge of God, is most scientific." Jṣānaṁ me para . . . "And it is very confidential." Jṣānam means knowledge, and me, the Supreme Personality says, "Knowledge about Me is very confidential." And yad vijṣāna-samanvitam: "And it is most scientific." Science of God is not sentiment. It is science. It is . . . actually it is science, the science of sciences. Every science takes his, what is called, data, from this science.

Just the material science begins from the sunshine, but the sunshine is based on this science, God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Philosophy, any philosophy, er, any science you take, you have to accept some axiomatic truth. Then you go on. But wherefrom the axiomatic truth? Science is discovering some subtle laws of the nature, but who made that law? As soon as you say that "Here is a law which is being carried very nicely," there must be a law maker. You have to accept it. The science of astronomy—the planets, the stars, the sun, the moon moving in their orbit very nicely, very perfectly and accurately—there is law.

This is law of nature. You might have discovered—you are great scientist—that under this law, the law of gravitation or this law, that law, so many laws there are. But the background you have to inquire, "Who is the law maker?" Unless there is law maker, how there can be law? Take for example your state laws.

As soon as you say that this is law, "Keep to the right," you have to accept there is a law maker under whose direction this law is being carried out nicely. If you don't carry out, then you are punished. Similarly, nature's law is not ultimate. There is law maker, and that law maker is God. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10): "Prakṛti," means nature, "is working under My superintendence." "Under My superintendence." How you can deny? If there is nature's law, who made this law? You see that the clock is running very nicely, the machine is going on, but that is not the ultimate. There is a maker of the clock or watch. Without understanding the maker, simply if you understand the clock only, that is not sufficient knowledge.

So these things are very nicely explained in Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and we are trying to explain the science of God or knowledge. If you like, you can take, and we are sure that your life will be successful. This chanting and combined with this hearing of this Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will advance you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness.

And as Prahlāda Mahārāja is advising, instructing his class fellows, that this is to be learned from the beginning of your life, but if you have missed the opportunity, but it is better late than never. Here is a process introduced by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We can accept it immediately even though it is late.

Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Any questions?

Lady guest (1): Where was Kṛṣṇa born? Was Kṛṣṇa born, and if so, where?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa was born, but you have to know how Kṛṣṇa is born. That is your intelligence. Just like sun is born every morning. There is no sun now, but in the morning we will see sun, and from the eastern side. So do you think that eastern side is the mother of sun? Because sun is born from the eastern side, you can take it for granted that eastern side is the mother of sun. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa appears in similar way, but that does not mean that He is born.

That is stated in the Fourth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9): "Anyone who understands in truth how I take My birth, how I work, how I am transcendental . . ." Simply by knowing these three things—how Kṛṣṇa is born, and how does He work and what is His actual position—the result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: "My dear Arjuna, simply knowing these three things, one comes to Me after quitting this material body." Punar janma naiti: "He never again comes back to . . ." That means, in other words, if you can understand the birth of Kṛṣṇa, then you will stop your any more birth. You will be free from this birth and death.

So try to understand how Kṛṣṇa takes His birth. Simply by understanding this . . . tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti. If you can understand how Kṛṣṇa takes his birth, then your birth and death problem is solved. He becomes liberated. So birth of Kṛṣṇa has to be understood. And who can understand? That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3): "Out of many thousands of men"—sahasra means thousands; thousands, many thousands, means many hundreds of thousands' men—"one is interested for spiritual advancement of life." Kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhaye means perfection.

Not all men are interested. "What is perfection, nonsense? Let us eat, drink, be merry, enjoy. Don't care for perfection. This is perfection." They are eating, sleeping, mating, that's all. Who knows what is going to be happened after death? Who can . . . they don't care. This is the position of general population. So out of that rascal population, one may be intelligent enough, "What is the aim of life? What I am? Why I am suffering? Why suffering is imposed upon me? I want to be happy. Why happiness is not there? Why it is simply temporary?" So many things, questions.

So these question arises in the mind of a person out of many thousands of men. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. Siddhaye means one is trying to reach to the point of perfection; not perfection, but simply trying. So . . . and yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3): "And out of many thousands of such persons who are trying to approach the Absolute Truth," kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ, "one can understand Me as I am."

Therefore one who can understand Kṛṣṇa, His birth, His appearance, His disappearance, His activities, all these things . . . that is also confirmed in another place, tato māṁ tattvato jṣātvā: "Thus one understanding Me in truth," viśate tad-anantaram, "he is allowed to enter into My kingdom." Yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55): "Only by devotional service one can understand Me, actually what I am." So if we engage ourself in submissive way in the devotional service of Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will let you know what is His birth, what is His appearance, disappearance, activities—everything revealed. These things are not to be understood by mental speculation. These things are revealed to a heart of a devotee when he is engaged in devotional service. So that is the process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As you make more advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you understand everything.

Any other question?

Guest (2): Chanting is devotional service?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Devotional service are discharged in nine different ways: śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). To hear about the Lord from proper source; and kīrtanam, and to glorify the Lord; smaraṇam, meditating upon the Lord; pāda-sevanam, to engage oneself in the service; arcanam, worshiping; prayer . . . there are nine different ways of devotional services. So you can accept nine all together or eight or seven or six or five or four or three or two. So even you accept one, you will advance. If you simply come here and hear this chanting, your devotional service will be perfected one day. So although there are nine different processes, but if you can accept even one, you will be advanced in devotional service.


Devotee (1): What is the relationship between Lord Kṛṣṇa and Lord Jesus Christ?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that you know. Why do you ask me? What is Lord Jesus Christ? Don't you know?

Devotee (1): The son of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore relationship is father and son. But there is no difference between father and son. Both of them are authorized. Just like your father, and if you are a trustworthy son of your father, then the work done by your father and by you is the same.

Devotee (2): Swāmījī, Kṛṣṇa being the cause of all causes, how can we use our individuality if we are always under His direction?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): If we are always under Kṛṣṇa's direction, how is it we can use our individuality?

Prabhupāda: That is individuality, that even under the direction of Kṛṣṇa, you can use your individuality. Don't you do that? Your father says: "My dear boy, do this." You say: "No, I don't do this." That is your individuality. Otherwise what is the meaning of individuality? Individuality means if I like, I can accept; if I don't like, I do not accept. That is individuality. If I am forced to do something, that is not my individuality.

Janārdana: We are marginal energy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Marginal energy is that, that by your individuality you can abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa, and if you like, you do not abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. That is your choice. That is practical everywhere. The father and son—the son may obey the father, and the son may disobey also. That is the choice of the son. That is given there, that every individual living entity has got this minute quantity of independence. And as soon as we misuse this minute quantity of independence we are in the hands of māyā.

Just like in every country . . . you are American. You are considered to be independent. But that does not mean that you are absolutely independent, you can do whatever you like. But you have got the right to do whatever you like. But as soon as you misuse your independence, you are in danger, although you belong to the independent nation. So there is possibility of misusing the independence at every moment. Therefore we have to continue Kṛṣṇa consciousness so this possibility of misusing the independence will no longer live.

All right.

Guest (3): Swāmī, one more question. If you have misused the energy of the past and go on with the results of your misuse, are you still responsible for those forms?

Prabhupāda: As you had misused your independence in the . . . in your past life or in past, similarly, you can immediately properly use your independence. Do you follow? You . . . somehow or other, you misused your independence. Similarly, immediately, if you use your independence properly, then the result of that misuse of independence is corrected. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Because the conditioned souls here in this material world, they have all misused their independence . . . anyone, beginning from the highest planet down, beginning from Brahmā down to the small ant, everyone has misused his independence. This conditional life, this material body, is due to that. Therefore our reactions of that misuse is going on life after life.

Now, Kṛṣṇa says that, "If you surrender immediately, then I take charge of you." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: "You just give up all your other engagements. Just surrender unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I shall give you protection from all reaction of your misuse of independence."

Guest (4): The false . . . (indistinct) . . . is that he is misled by material consciousness to execute the things, really. If he is misled by other, by circumstances, this is . . . he has no fault of his own.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but innocence is no excuse of law. If you say that, "Somebody misled me to go to the left side" in the court, oh, that does not mean that you will be saved from the fine. So you have to become such intelligent person that you may not be misled by others. You have got the intelligence. Why should you be misled? Then what is the meaning of this human form of life?

And you have to be educated. You have to take the opportunity of education so that you may not be misled. Why do you agree to be misled? Then you must agree to take the punishment also. If you, by innocence, put your hand on the fire, so fire will not excuse you. (laughter) So innocence is no excuse. You have to be learned. Therefore we are here to give proper education to the people.


Guest (5): Is not Kṛṣṇa a God of compassion?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee (6): Is Kṛṣṇa not a God of compassion?

Prabhupāda: Oh, who can be more than, compassion, than Him? He is canvassing you, "My dear boy, please come to Me. I will give you all protection. Why you are suffering here?" Can you find out any person more compassionate than Kṛṣṇa?

Guest (5): . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: He is the most compassionate.

Guest (7): Cannot, then, Kṛṣṇa understand that . . .?

Prabhupāda: First, the only thing is that we are misusing our independence. That's all.

Guest (8): Do we ever personally contact Kṛṣṇa in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. He is within your heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61): "The Supreme Personality of Godhead is situated in everyone's heart"—in your heart, in my heart, in everyone's heart.

Guest (8): How do you reach this?

Prabhupāda: That requires practice. Kṛṣṇa is always with you. In this explanation of Prahlāda Mahārāja we shall come to that point. Kṛṣṇa is not without you. Aṇḍāntarasthaṁ paramāṇu-cayāntarastham (Bs. 5.35). Kṛṣṇa is even within the atom. That is realization. One has to realize, and one has to talk with Kṛṣṇa. So that means he has to qualify himself. Just like in your body there are so many things. Do you know everything? Do you know everything? Then? Do you know? You are eating, and how it is being transformed into blood? Can you see it? Then it requires knowledge. Similarly, by knowledge you will understand that Kṛṣṇa is with you.

That is the mistake of this modern civilization. Everyone thinks, "I know everything. I don't require any authority to understand anything." But the Vedic literature, the Vedic civilization, they direct, tad-vijṣānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12): "If you want to understand that science, you must approach a bona fide spiritual master." This is very simple thing. If you want to learn engineering, then you must admit yourself in engineering college. If you want to be medical man, you must admit yourself in a medical college. Similarly, if you want to understand Kṛṣṇa, then you must approach a person who knows Kṛṣṇa. It is not fanaticism or mental speculation. You have to learn the art scientifically.

(pause) What is that? Begin Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (prema-dhvani) Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances)

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . if anybody here would care to make a contribution to help us in our movement . . . (indistinct) . . . as soon as His Divine Grace leaves, we have a new record, a 45 . . . (indistinct) . . . a 45 record, a Nārada Muni record, just published, and also a 33 record and . . . (indistinct) . . . (end)