Collaborate with us to invoke and fully manifest Srila Prabhupada's Vani-presence.
670116 - Lecture CC Madhya 22.31-33 - New York
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the original sun; therefore wherever Kṛṣṇa is present there cannot be any ignorance or illusion. Darkness is compared with ignorance, illusion, sleeping, laziness, intoxication, madness. These are all darkness. One who is in the quality of darkness, these things will be visible in his person: too much sleepy, lazy, ignorant. Just opposite, the opposite number of knowledge. So these are called darkness. So if actually one is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, these qualities will be not visible in his person. This is a test of progressing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
- kṛṣṇa—sūrya-sama, māyā haya andhakāra
- yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa tāhāṅ nāhi māyāra adhikāra
- (CC Madhya 22.31)
Yāhāṅ kṛṣṇa: wherever Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is absolute. He can be present in His various potencies. He can be present by His name only. Just like we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa—He is present, because His name is not different from Him. That is the absolute sense. In relative sense... Suppose somebody calling me in my apartment, "Swāmījī." Swāmījī is here. The response cannot be. Just like in telephone. Yesterday Raymond was calling us by phone three thousand miles away. As soon as we took the, I mean to say, hanger, we could immediately hear him.
If by material ways we can be touch in swift..., so swiftly, just see how much spiritual potency has Kṛṣṇa. Although He's not present before us, He can be present in so many ways. He can be present by His name. Otherwise, all these great ācāryas, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, would not have bothered themselves simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare.
There is actually presence of Kṛṣṇa. If you take any material thing... Suppose a very nice thing, a rose flower. "Rose flower, rose flower, rose flower"—how long you can chant "rose flower"? Say thrice, four times, ten times, twenty times. Any more, you'll become disgusted. This is the test. But Hare Kṛṣṇa you can chant twenty-four hours, you'll not feel tired. That is the test of absolute and relative.
So relative name and absolute name. Kṛṣṇa, if you always keep Kṛṣṇa in your presence, then where is the possibility of ignorance and delusion? No. There is no possibility. And this is the shortcut way of keeping Kṛṣṇa always with you on your tongue—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare / Hare Rāma... And if you are rigidly in this chanting process, you must understand that Kṛṣṇa is with you and there is no danger, there is no illusion, there is no māyā.
Kṛṣṇa can be present by His fame. Just like we read something, we discuss something about Kṛṣṇa's activities—"Oh, He was present in the Battle of Kurukṣetra. He became the charioteer and He delivered the lectures on Bhagavad..." These discussions, that is also presence of Kṛṣṇa. Then His pastimes. Just like His līlā in Vṛndāvana or with any other devotees. There are many līlās.
Then Kṛṣṇa's associates, those who are devotees of Kṛṣṇa, if you speak about them, that is also a presence of Kṛṣṇa. If you talk about Nārada Muni, if you talk about Vyāsa Muni, if you talk of Lord Caitanya, if you talk Rūpa Gosvāmī—those who are, I mean to say, unalloyed devotees of Kṛṣṇa—if you discuss about them, then Kṛṣṇa is there. He is present by His name, He is present by His fame, He is present by His pastime, He is present by His associates. Anything in Kṛṣṇa connection, that makes Kṛṣṇa present in that spot. This is actual fact. One has to realize this, that's all.
So we may not... Just like the sun is so many millions miles away, but he is..., sun can be present before us by his sunshine, his potency, sun's potency, energy. Similarly, these are all Kṛṣṇa's spiritual energies, and He is compared with the sun because He is the original sun. Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40).
From the spiritual planet, Goloka Vṛndāvana, the glowing effulgence, brahma-jyotir, is coming out. How it is coming out? That we can very easily understand. As the sunshine is coming out, emanating incessantly from the sun disc, similarly the real sunshine, brahma-jyotir, is coming out of the spiritual planet Goloka Vṛndāvana incessantly. That is called brahma-jyotir. Yasya prabhā prabhavato (Bs. 5.40). And due to that incessant shining, all the shining which you are experiencing, even this lamp, even this electricity, fire, moonshine, sunshine, any shining, that is due to that brahma-jyotir.
So yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi (Bs. 5.40). In that shining, this material world, the spiritual world, they are resting. So impersonalist, they are concerned with the shining, that's all. The difference between the personalist and impersonalist is that impersonalist, they take that shining as final. But the personalist, they take, "No. Kṛṣṇa is final." That is their difference of opinion. Otherwise, both of them in the spiritual realm.
And so far Kṛṣṇa is the cause of brahma-jyotir, there are many evidences from Vedic literature. In Īśopaniṣad and other Upaniṣads, in Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā: "I am the source of brahma-jyotir." You'll find in the Fourteenth Chapter, last verse, brahmaṇaḥ ahaṁ jyoti.
(aside) Is there any Bhagavad-gītā? You find out Fourteenth Chapter, last verse (BG 14.27).
Satsvarūpa: The English?
Satsvarūpa: "For I am the abode of Brahman, immortal, and the imperishable, of eternal law and of absolute bliss."
Prabhupāda: That's all? So He's the source of brahma-jyotir. So if we have such realization that Kṛṣṇa is absolute, and if we realize... It is a question of realization.
Now, when you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, if we chant mechanically, then the effect is different. I have already given you the ten kinds of offenses there are in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So mechanical way of chanting is also another offense. So offenseless chanting... Of course in the beginning, neophytes, we are apt to commit so many offenses. But we should be careful that the chanting should be offenseless. Then we shall realize that Kṛṣṇa is present by His name. He is present. You'll realize, and you'll have the same effect as you expect by meeting Kṛṣṇa personally.
You can see Kṛṣṇa and you can hear Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa is absolute, there is no difference between seeing and hearing. That is the absolute sense. People give more stress on the eye: "Oh, can you show me Kṛṣṇa?" Oh, can't you hear Kṛṣṇa? Why do you give...? This is also one sense; that is also another sense. Do you think by seeing you'll understand everything? You are seeing so many things daily. Do you understand? So this is all foolishness, that "Can you show me?"
Now we have got so many senses. So perception through any sense, because He is absolute, the same effect. Either you see Him personally or you hear Him. Rather, hearing is better, because by seeing you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present, all people saw Him, but they could not understand Kṛṣṇa. But one who heard of Kṛṣṇa even five thousand years after, just like we are hearing, we can understand Kṛṣṇa as far as possible. So hearing is most important thing. You'll find in the Thirteenth Chapter, śruti parāyaṇa (Gītār Gān 13.26). Śruti parāyaṇa. Śruti parāyaṇa means one who is very much eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa, he's a very nice qualified man.
So hearing is very important thing than seeing or touching or smelling. Hearing is very... Hearing is the, is so important. When all other senses are not acting... Sleeping, no other sense is acting; as soon as telephone bell is called, you get up. No other sense will act. So hearing is so perfect. Therefore according to Vedic principle this hearing is very important thing. Hear. And one who is very much eager to hear about Kṛṣṇa is very expert, because hearing is knowledge.
So if we hear Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa, His name, His fame, then Kṛṣṇa is present before us. And Lord Caitanya is giving another instance:
- vilajjamānayā yasya
- sthātum īkṣā-pathe 'muyā
- vimohitā vikatthante
- mamāham iti durdhiyaḥ
- (CC Madhya 22.32)
In the Bhāgavatam, where describing the illusory energy... When Vyāsadeva wrote Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam he, first of all, he meditated himself in bhakti-yoga.
- bhakti-yogena manasi
- samyak praṇihite 'male
- apaśyat puruṣaṁ sākṣāt
- māyāṁ ca tad-apāśrayam
- (SB 1.7.4)
Māyā ca yat, yaya sammohito jīva (SB 1.7.5). So this māyā, Kṛṣṇa's māyā, this illusory energy, external energy, also saw. Vyāsadeva saw. He saw Kṛṣṇa, apaśyat puruṣaṁ pūrṇam. He saw the Supreme Personality as well as His māyā. So māyā, yad-apāśrayam. Māyā cannot come before Kṛṣṇa. Because... Just like the sun. Sunshine, there ignorance or darkness cannot come, cannot approach. So he saw.
Vilajjamānayā yasya sthātum īkṣā-pathe amuyā. The māyā is ashamed to come before Kṛṣṇa because she is entrusted with very thankless task. Māyā is entrusted by Kṛṣṇa to take the conditioned soul and take charge of them. And māyā has taken charge of all us conditioned soul, and her task is to punish, simply beating. So that is a very thankless task. She is discharging the duty entrusted to her by Kṛṣṇa, but everyone, especially the transcendentalist, oh, they are hating, "Oh, māyā, māyā, māyā." Nobody will like, transcendentalist, māyā, either personalist or impersonalist. But she's engaged.
Just like police. Police is engaged by the state, but nobody likes police. Everyone will criticize police. Thankless task. Because they..., unless they become strict, unless they become red-hot (indistinct), they cannot execute their duty. That is their way of punishing. But people do not like them. Nobody likes police. You see? Even a police comes all of a sudden here to sit down here to hear us, we'll suspect, "Oh, he has come with some purpose." (laughs) It is such a thankless task. Similarly, māyā is entrusted with thankless task. She cannot approach Kṛṣṇa, neither she is liked by the conditioned soul.
So here it is said, vilajjamānayā yasya sthātum īkṣā-pathe 'muyā (CC Madhya 22.32). Why? Vimohitā vikatthante. And illusioned by that māyā, vikatthante, talks like a madman. What is that? Mamāham iti durdhiyaḥ. The foolish conditioned souls are absorbed in two things: "I am," and "mine." "It is my. It is I am first." "I am the lord of all I survey," and "This is my country," "This is my society," "This is my body," "This is my son," "This is my children," "This is my home."
This is..., this is the absorption. Although nothing belongs to him—in a moment notice everything finished—but still he's so much vikatthante. "O my society," "my country," "my father," "my mother." So many, "Mine, mine." Nothing belongs to him, but he says always, "Mine, mine." "My" and "I." This is māyā.
So this māyā cannot approach to a person who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the version of Lord Caitanya, and with evidences. So if we want to be free from the clutches of māyā, then this is the only path—to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no other way. Because here it is clearly stated, kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama. Just try to understand the argument.
Kṛṣṇa sūrya-sama: Kṛṣṇa is just like sun; māyā andhakāra: and the māyā is just like darkness. It is darkness. So just you cannot imagine where there is sunshine there can be darkness. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is just like sun; how can you imagine that Kṛṣṇa and māyā can exist together? No. That is not possible. If there is māyā, there is no Kṛṣṇa. And if there is Kṛṣṇa, there is no māyā. This is the test.
If we are still in māyā, that means I'm out of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if I am actually in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is no existence of māyā. And what is the symptom of māyā? Mamāham: "my country," "my society," "my father," "my mother," "my wife," "my children," "my property," "my position," "my, my, my." There is no end of "my," although nothing belongs to him. This is called māyā.
So the more we make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this "my" consciousness and "I" consciousness will vanish. Just like while eating, the hunger and weakness will vanish. When you are hungry, you have not eaten in three days, you become weak and you become hungry. So this is natural consequence. And as soon as you begin to eat, this weakness will disappear and the hunger will disappear, and satisfaction will come. There is no doubt about it. Similarly, if these two things cannot stand together, māyā and Kṛṣṇa, then if I am in Kṛṣṇa consciousness then there is no question of māyā.
It may be that I'm not fully Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That may be. Just like while eating it is not that immediately my hunger is satisfied or immediately I get my lost weakness. Takes little time. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa consciousness may be a gradual process of advancement, but this is the rule. If we are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there cannot be any existence of māyā, illusion. That is the test. If I am still in illusion, then I should understand that my business in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not progressing. This is the test.
- 'kṛṣṇa, tomāra haṅa' yadi bale eka-bāra
- māyā-bandha haite kṛṣṇa tāre kare pāra
- (CC Madhya 22.33)
This is a very nice thing. Why Kṛṣṇa consciousness does not advance? Because due to our lack of surrender. We have got doubts, that "Whether Kṛṣṇa consciousness can make me actually advance?" We have got doubts. So long we have got doubts, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not progressing. We should clear all doubts. That is, you have got, everyone has got right to clear doubts. Clear doubts. If we think Kṛṣṇa as ordinary man, then there is doubt. Ordinary. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍha mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). "Foolish persons, they think Me as ordinary man." But He's not. He's God. We should not be, I mean to say, detached from Kṛṣṇa because He's sitting on the lap of Yaśodā. Still He's Kṛṣṇa. There are instances. Therefore we have to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when He was only three months old, oh, very beautiful child... As beautiful child, He's taken care of (by) other ladies and girls. Oh, it is very nice.
So Pūtanā, a demonic, she, in the dress of a very nice girl, approached Yaśodāmayī, and she had the desire... Because she was the agent of Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was searching out to kill Kṛṣṇa. So she came with poison in her breast so that she'll take the child, and naturally, the child, they suck breast of ladies. And as soon as Kṛṣṇa will suck the breast, and there is poison, it will die. That was his plan.
Now Yaśodāmayī, she's very innocent lady. She came: "Oh, Yaśodā, you have got very nice child. Will you kindly give in my lap?" "Yes, yes. Why not? Take." And she at once put the child on the breast, and Kṛṣṇa sucked. Kṛṣṇa sucked the poison and Kṛṣṇa sucked the life also. At once the demon fell, a gigantic body, and there was... "Oh, how He is powerful." So you see's. He's all-powerful there in the lap of His mother. Yaśodāmayī thought, "Oh! God has saved my child! This demonic, they came to cheat me." Yaśodāmayī does not know that here is God on her lap.
This is another māyā. This is called yogamāyā. If Yaśodāmayī understands He is God, then (s)he cannot, I mean to say, bring up the child just like her own child, ordinary child. Therefore she must be in ignorance, that she... Because there is the connection of love only. That's all. So out of love, as somebody forgets what he is or she is, similarly Yaśodāmayī, constantly seeing so many wonderful things played by Kṛṣṇa, still she is thinking, "Oh, He is my child. These things are happening by some supernatural power. It is God's grace. It is God's grace that my child is saved." She is simply anxious to save her child. That's all.
So these things are to be studied, to be seen. Therefore unless we hear about Kṛṣṇa perfectly, then we cannot surrender. Therefore hearing is very essential. And kṛṣṇa tomāra... And when, as soon as we surrender unto Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is very intelligent. He's more intelligent. At least two inches intelligent more. So how far I have surrendered, He knows.
Simply artificially saying that "I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious," He can understand. He can understand. But if actually one surrenders, then there is no question of attack of māyā to him. All attack of māyā finished. But the difficulty is that we have got doubt, we do not surrender, we do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and therefore the difficulties always disturbing.
Thank you very much. (end)