670102 - Lecture CC Madhya 20.391-405 - New York

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada



670102CC-NEW YORK - January 02, 1967 - 27:56 Minutes



Prabhupāda:

aiche kṛṣṇera līlā-maṇḍala caudda-manvantare
brahmāṇḍa-maṇḍala vyāpi' krame krame phire
(CC Madhya 20.391)

So we have already discussed how kṛṣṇa-līlā, or the pastimes, different manifestation of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes during one hundred and twenty-five years, beginning from His birth up to the disappearance, as many pastimes there are, they are being manifested in some of the universe, out of the innumerable universes.

So God is never dead. Kṛṣṇa is never dead, as some of the modern philosophers, they are putting forward the philosophy of "God is dead." God is dead for those who are following the owl philosophy. Owl has never seen sun, or it does not like to see the sun. Therefore the owl says, "There is no sun." Similarly, the atheistic philosophy is... There are so many logic.

Just like the owl philosophy, the frog philosophy, the camel philosophy and the dog philosophy, the hog philosophy—there are so many philosophies. (laughter) So only the persons who are..., who have got two hands and two legs, but they are counted amongst the animals. And therefore they cannot think of the eternal, blissful existence of the Supreme Lord at all times. So premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38).

If one takes to this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and develops love of Godhead, then he can see God at every moment, in every step, in every thing. He's not, for a single moment, is out of the sight of God. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, teṣu te mayi. The devotee who has loved, who has developed love for God, he's also seeing God at every moment.

Similarly, God is also seeing him at every moment. They are not separated. So simple process. This hari-kīrtana, this is the simple process recommended in this age, and if we sincerely do it without any offense and with faith, then seeing of God is not difficult for a devotee.

So,

kona brahmāṇḍe kona līlāra haya avasthāna
tāte līlā 'nitya' kahe āgama-purāṇa
(CC Madhya 20.395)

So similarly, in some of the brahmāṇḍas, or universes, there is already present kṛṣṇa-līlā; Kṛṣṇa is there. There is another Bengali verse, very nicely:

adya 'pi akāri līlā gaura-rāya
kona kona bhagavane dekhibāre pāya

Lord Caitanya's pastime is going on, still going on, but some of the fortunate devotees, they can see. Anything, God's pastime, that is perceivable through devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55).

Only. This is the process. No other process. No amount of speculation, no amount of academic education, no amount of philosophical discussion can..., one can... It is confirmed in the Vedic literature: nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahudhā śrutena (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23).

Na ayam ātmā... This self-realization is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, simply by discussing, nobody can arrive. Nobody can understand what is self-realization, what is Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena, na medhayā. Medhayā means one who is very..., who has got very good brain substance, he also cannot.

Simply by agitating the brain, brain substance, one cannot understand. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena, na medhayā. Śrutena, one who is highly educated, very good scholar, he also cannot understand. Then, what is the pro...?

Janena saba puruṣe tena labhya: a person to whom God reveals Himself, he can understand. So we have to wait for that, and for God's mercy. We have to be engaged in loving, transcendental service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then He'll reveal.

goloka, gokula-dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama
kṛṣṇecchāya brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe tāhāra saṅkrama
(CC Madhya 20.396)

Now, goloka, gokula dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama. Because the Lord is absolute, therefore His name, His fame, His quality, His form, His associates, His paraphernalia—everything absolute, nondifferent. God and God's name, nondifferent. God and God's place, nondifferent. And for that reason, when Kṛṣṇa comes, the Absolute, the Vṛndāvana, the place where He descends, that is nondifferent.

Actually you can see that, that Vṛndāvana-dhāma, that place is a small spot of land, say about eighty-four-miles area, but any person, and however atheistic he may be, and however nonsense he may be, if he goes to that place, he'll feel Kṛṣṇa's presence. Still. Still, simply by going there, he'll at once change his mind that "Here is God." He'll accept it.

Still. If you like, you can go to India and you can see, make an experiment. So, although Vṛndāvana is a..., is a place for the personalist, now all the impersonalists school of India, they're making their āśrama at Vṛndāvana. Because they have failed to achieve the sense of God anywhere, they are coming to Vṛndāvana. It is such a nice place.

So here Lord Caitanya says that goloka, gokula-dhāma-'vibhu' kṛṣṇa-sama. Just like Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, similarly, His place is also unlimited. It is not limited by the material laws. Similarly, His name is unlimited. When you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name, the holy name, has got unlimited potency. Simply you have to realize it.

Even God is present before us, we cannot realize. When Kṛṣṇa was present before us on this earth, not that all people of the world or all people of India could recognize. Only few people—the Pāṇḍavas and the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, inhabitants of Dvārakā, some of them could understand. So it requires training only. Otherwise, the unlimited God can be seen even within this limited sphere of material existence.

ataeva goloka-sthāne nitya vihāra
brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe krame prākaṭya tāhāra
(CC Madhya 20.397)

So when Kṛṣṇa, or God, comes, He's not out of His eternal abode, because absolute. Whenever, wherever God is present, His absolute abode is also present there. Just like it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61): "The Supreme Lord is situated as Supersoul in everyone's heart." Now suppose there is a dog or there is hog. So there is also God. So does it mean that God is living with a dog or God is living with a hog? No. For Him, even within the heart of a hog, even within the heart of a dog, there is Vaikuṇṭha. The same thing. These are the inconceivable energies of the Supreme Lord.

Similarly, a God's pure devotee, wherever he may be, he lives at Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvana is not limited or God is not so limited that He is under the boundary of certain limitation. No. They can... God and God's devotees, wherever they are, the same transcendental abode, God's place, Goloka Vṛndāvana, is manifested there. So in each and every brahmāṇḍa, or universe, wherever Kṛṣṇa is there, there is Goloka Vṛndāvana there. Brahmāṇḍa-gaṇe krame prākaṭya.

vraje kṛṣṇa—sarvaiśvarya-prakāśe 'pūrṇatama'
purī-dvaye, paravyome—'pūrṇatara', 'pūrṇa'
(CC Madhya 20.398)

Now God's manifestation, fullest manifestation, is at Vṛndāvana. Fullest manifestation. Full freedom. In Kṛṣṇa, when He's at Vṛndāvana, He has full freedom. Now there was a question: When rāsa-līlā..., Kṛṣṇa performed rāsa-līlā. So Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he questioned. Mahārāja Parīkṣit was hearing the description of rāsa-līlā from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. So he cleared out one question which is generally discussed about the character of Kṛṣṇa, because He enjoyed these rāsa-līlā pastimes at dead of night, He played on His flute and all the gopīs of Vṛndāvana, they came into the forest and they had the rāsa dance.

So Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the King Parīkṣit, inquired to his teacher, Śukadeva Goswami, that Kṛṣṇa is on this earth, He appeared on this earth for paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām, dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya... Dharma saṁsthāpanārthāya (BG 4.8): Just to establish the process of religiosity. And India at least, still, the Vedic principle is that a, a lady or a girl who is especially married, or unmarried, she cannot mix with any other man. So that is against religious principle.

So this question was raised that these girls who were already married, how they went to Kṛṣṇa for dancing with Him, and how Kṛṣṇa allowed them to dance with Him, because against religious principles. This question was raised by Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Of course, you cannot imagine that a girl going to a friend and dancing with him, that is not against religious principle. But according to Vedic principles, this is irreligious.

So this was questioned by Mahārāja Parīkṣit to Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī replied in many ways, but the summary is that "How this can be impure?" That "If by chanting Kṛṣṇa's name one becomes pure, how dancing with Kṛṣṇa can be impure?" And he gave that example, tejīyasāṁ na doṣāyet. (SB 10.33.29)

One who is powerful, to..., for him there is no question of contamination. Just like the sun. He gave the example, the sun. Sun is so powerful that sunshine is touching all contaminated place, but sun is not contaminated. Rather, by the sunshine it is sterilized—contaminated place becomes sterilized—as a crude example in the material world. Similarly, in God's association there is no question of irreligiosity. If there is ecstasy, intense love for God, there is no question of contamination.

So contamination is considered within the material world. In the spiritual world, there is no contamination. And actually, when the gopīs went to Kṛṣṇa, they approached there in their spiritual body, not with material bodies. Because it is stated in the Bhāgavata that when the gopīs left their house, their husbands saw that the wife is sleeping on the same bed. So Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say, danced with the gopīs not with their..., in their material body, but in their spiritual body. These are the descriptions are there.

So Kṛṣṇa is always pure. Always pure. Perfect. So sarvaiśvarya-prakāśe. There is pūrṇatama, the fullest expression of God. Now this connection of Kṛṣṇa and with the gopīs, apparently it is abominable, but in the spiritual sense, it is the highest, highest perfectional stage of love of Godhead. So this world is perverted reflection. There...

There is such psychological things, that a married woman wants to mix with his..., with her friend, or a married man wants to mix with another. Wherefrom this idea comes, this psychological...? It comes from God. In God there is. But there, it is in perfect order. Here, it is contaminated. Here, it is contaminated. So we should not imitate the perfect thing in the contaminated place.

So we have to rectify ourself. Unless we approach to the spiritual stage... That is the process. Just like a diseased man, he cannot imitate the healthy man. A healthy man eats as he likes, but a diseased man, if he eats as he likes, he'll die. Death is sure. So he has to be restricted, not the healthy man. So if you want really happiness, if you want really freedom, and if you really want everything is reality, then you have to transfer yourself to the spiritual world, in association with Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

And for that purpose, just like a student for getting a degree in the university, he, I mean to say, tolerates all kinds of inconveniences—"Never mind. Let me pass and go away"—similarly, we have to make use..., the best use of this bad bargain, this material body, and continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness just to achieve the highest perfection of life, freedom, love. This is the process.

And if we imitate—the same example—if we, in diseased state, if we imitate a healthy man's activity, then death is sure. Death is sure. Nobody can say, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa enjoyed with so many girls. Oh, let me enjoy also." You cannot, because you are in diseased condition. If you do that, then you continue your diseased life and you'll die.

So for us, so long we are conditioned by this material nature, we have to live under regulation, under restriction. And as soon as we are free from this material entanglement, when we come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully, even in perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness here, you'll have that transcendental nature. Just like several times I have cited one śloka from Yamunācārya. Yamunācārya was a great king and later on, he became a great devotee.

He has written his life's experience in one verse. Yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor: "So long my mind and attention is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness," tadavadhi, "since then," tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame (Yamunācārya) "sex life, as soon as I remember about that, it becomes very nasty thing for me." This is the experience. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also... Sex life is there in Kṛṣṇa, not exactly like this, but there is a, I mean to say, unification or embracing, kissing, everything is there, but there is no pregnancy, there is no abortion. That is the perfection.

That we cannot do here. Therefore we have to avoid. Yes. We have to avoid. The perfection... Kṛṣṇa mixed with so many girls, but there was not a single case. And Bhīṣmadeva certified that "If I had been among such beautiful young girls"—because Bhīṣma was famous as brahmacārī—"so I think I could not protect myself. But Kṛṣṇa is so nice that He, He was always..." Kṛṣṇa is all-perfect. It is because the girls wanted Kṛṣṇa as their husband; therefore Kṛṣṇa accepted them. Kṛṣṇa did not, I mean to say, need the assistance of any other person or girl or boy or anything for His... He's fully satisfied. He's God. He's full perfect.

So His pastimes are manifest in different way, and in Vṛndāvana His fullness is exhibited. That is described here by Lord Caitanya. Vraje kṛṣṇa-sarvaiśvarya-pūrṇe prakāśe pūrṇatama. There is no restriction. He is fully manifested there. Purī-dvaye, paravyome-'pūrṇatara', 'pūrṇa'. Purī-dvaye means Mathurā-purī and Dvārakā-purī. Mathurā-purī... As there... As in this universe there is Mathurā-purī and Dvārakā-purī, similarly, in the transcendental abode of Kṛṣṇa, there is Mathurā-purī, Dvārakā-purī. They are represented here. So India there is Mathurā-purī and Dvārakā-purī. They are... In Mathurā-purī and Dvārakā-purī, in these two places, Kṛṣṇa's fullness is not manifested. But His fullness is manifested at Vṛndāvana.

ei kṛṣṇa-vraje 'pūrṇatama' bhagavān
āra saba svarūpa-'pūrṇatara' 'pūrṇa' nāma
(CC Madhya 20.402)

This subject matter is very confidential, but still, Caitanya Mahāprabhu is describing to Sanātana Gosvāmī, and we are trying to take advantage of this. But a little advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is little difficult for others, how Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Lord, manifests Himself fully and manifests Himself less than full. These consideration are there. But let us try to understand as far as possible.

saṅkṣepe kahiluṅ kṛṣṇera svarūpa-vicāra
'ananta' kahite nāre ihāra vistāra
(CC Madhya 20.403)

Now Lord Caitanya is summarizing about Kṛṣṇa's, I mean to say, līlā, pastimes. Saṅkṣepe. They are all, whatever, which I have already spoken to you, that is only summary of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Otherwise, ananta kahite nāre ihāra vistāra. Ananta... The Śeṣa incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, He's called Ananta. Ananta means unlimited. So it is said that Ananta is describing about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes for unlimited years and eternally; still it is not yet finished.

ananta svarūpa kṛṣṇera nāhika gaṇana
śākhā-candra-nyāye kari dig-daraśana
(CC Madhya 20.404)

So far the forms of Kṛṣṇa are concerned, they're also unlimited. Śākhā-candra-dig-daraśana kari. So śākhā-candra-nyāye. There is a logic, śākhā-candra logic. What is that? That the sun, uh, moon, at night, is far, far away, but one is pointing out that we can see the moon through the branches of the tree. So there is a location. So through that location one can see the moon. Similarly, although kṛṣṇa-līlā and Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's forms, no human being can describe, still, as far as possible, Lord Caitanya says, this śākhā-candra-nyāye: just like the branch of a tree is far away from the moon, still, one can see by perspective view through the branches of the tree.

ihā yei śune, paḍe, sei bhāgyavān
kṛṣṇera svarūpa-tattvera haya kichu jñāna
(CC Madhya 20.405)

Now here is Lord Caitanya's order. Whether we do understand or not understand, if we simply submissively give aural reception to these messages of Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we shall understand the whole philosophy and science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the summary. We may not understand at the present moment about the extensive constitutional position and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa. Still, if we submissively give aural reception to these messages, as it is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Lord Caitanya, that will help us—Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta.

This hearing process is very nice. That is recommended by Lord Caitanya. Simply by hearing. We do not require to be very highly educated or very good scholar in Vedānta philosophy. Whatever you are, you remain in your place; that doesn't matter. Simply try to hear, and by hearing everything will be... Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (CC Madhya 17.136).

Because the process is that we cannot understand God or we cannot see God unless He reveals. So this revelation will come if we submissively hear. We may not understand, but simply by hearing, we can achieve that stage of life.

Thank you very much. (end)