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660812 - Lecture BG 04.34 - New York

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

660812BG.NY - August 12, 1966


tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Now, this verse we are discussing in our last meeting. Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, has concluded that all kinds of sacrifices that we can expected . . . we are expected to do, the best sacrifice is to acquire knowledge. Acquire knowledge. Because whole our this material conditioned life is due to ignorance. Therefore the purpose of sacrifice, penance, yoga and philosophical discussion—everything—the ultimate aim is to acquire knowledge.

And even in that knowledge field also . . . of course, transcendental knowledge, as we have discussed already, they are viewed in different . . . three different angles of vision—the knowledge of Brahmavāda, or impersonal, impersonal Absolute Truth; and the knowledge of Paramātmā, the localized Supersoul; and the knowledge of Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There are different stages of development of knowledge. But the first beginning knowledge is that we must understand that, "I am not this body, I am spirit soul. And my aim of life should be how to get out of this material entanglement." That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge.

And that knowledge, when developed gradually . . . the first, first stage of knowledge is impersonal Brahman realization, and the next stage is the Supersoul realization, and the last stage is realization of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam we have got this information, that the tattva, that the Absolute Truth, is realized in three visions: brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11).

Brahman means impersonal Absolute Truth, and Paramātmā means Supersoul, and Bhagavān means the Supreme Personality of God. That Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. You'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28).

There are description of different manifestation of Viṣṇu, or God, because God expands Himself in various ways. We are also expansion of God. So similarly, there are degrees of expansion, and the central point, or the primeval Lord, is Śrī Kṛṣṇa. We have got evidences from various Vedic literature that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

The Bhāgavata confirms, ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam, that . . . there is a list of incarnation of Godhead. There are many thousands and thousands of incarnation, and there is a list. Especially in Caitanya-caritāmṛta there is a specific list. Now, after giving that list, the conclusion is made that ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam.

Now, we have given the list, the author of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but all these incarnation of Godhead, they are either plenary manifestation or manifestation of the plenary manifestation, like that. Ete cāṁśa. Aṁśa means plenary manifestation, and kalāḥ means manifestation of the plenary manifestation. So the conclusion in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is that "This name 'Kṛṣṇa,' which is given here . . . because Kṛṣṇa also appeared, and He proclaimed Himself that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata, tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7).

So He is accepted as the original Supreme Personality of God. Similarly, in the Brahma-saṁhitā, another Vedic literature, that is also confirmed that:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(Bs 5.1)

There are many gods. Many gods means that in one sense we are also god. God means controller, that's all. God, the literary meaning of god, this word, is controller, īśvara. So every one of us has some controlling capacity. Everyone. Either we control the family, or control the office, we control the state, we control the municipality or so on, so on, everyone is a controller. But nobody is the supreme controller.

Similarly, if you go on, make your progress, then you come to the Brahmā. Brahmā is the controller of this whole universe. And there are many, innumerable universes and innumerable Brahmās also. And their controller is the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. And the Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu is controlled by Mahā-Viṣṇu, and Mahā-Viṣṇu is controlled by Saṅkarṣaṇa, and Saṅkarṣaṇa is controlled by Nārāyaṇa. And Nārāyaṇa is controlled by Vāsudeva, and Vāsudeva is controlled by Baladeva, and Baladeva is controlled by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat asti kiñcid dhanañjaya (BG 7.7):

"My dear Arjuna, there is no . . . nobody greater than Me." And Arjuna also accepted that "You are asamordhva: nobody is equal to You, and nobody is greater than You."

And our Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana . . . there were six Gosvāmīs. They were very good scholars, especially Jīva Gosvāmī. They have analyzed the characteristics of the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead, and they have established that Kṛṣṇa has got the all the transcendental qualities of Godhead in Kṛṣṇa. And in Nārāyaṇa there are sixty-four . . . er, ninety-four percent of the transcendental qualities of the Absolute Truth. Similarly, in Lord Śiva there is eighty-four percent of all the transcendental qualities of the Absolute Truth. And in living being, as we are, we have got seventy-eight percent of the transcendental qualities. That is also in fraction, not in full. So there are some scholars, analytical study like this.

Now, the point is that Kṛṣṇa says that "All kinds of sacrifices, whatever sacrifice you can undertake . . . there are different kinds of, mentioned: dravya-yajña, jñāna-yajña, yoga-yajña, so many there are different types of yajña. But here Kṛṣṇa concludes, "All the different types of yajña," sarvaṁ karmākhilaṁ pārtha jñāne parisamāpyate (BG 4.33).

"Whatever yajña you can perform, that's all right. But that is the different steps, different steps to come to the point of real knowledge."

Just like you have got your Empire State Building here, hundred-and-two–story building. So you go on, you go to the twenty-fifth floor, you can go to the fiftieth floor, you go to the seventieth, seventy-five, eighty—in this way, unless you reach that hundred-and-second story, that is not the perfect progress. That is also progress. Suppose if you have gone to the eighty-fifth story, that is also progress from the downwards. That's all right. But the highest, highest perfection of knowledge is, so far we study from the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19).

Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante. Bahūnām means after many, many births of culturing knowledge, when he comes to the real knowledge, real, I mean to say, summit knowledge. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān. Not the fools, but jñānavān. He especially mentions jñānavān. Jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. Jñānavān, the sign is that jñānavān surrenders unto the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. That is the highest stage of knowledge.

Either you take it, grant it . . . just like Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66):

"You give up. Because you are My very confidential friend, therefore I say unto you that you don't bother with anything else. Just surrender unto Me." This is the most confidential. So in all points of view, if you make an analytical study of the Vedic literature, the ultimate summit knowledge is to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa.

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ
(BG 7.19)

And what kind of surrender? The surrender means full knowledge. After scrutinizingly studying all the process of self-realization or transcendental realization, when one comes to the perfectional point, he understands that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: "Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything." As it is confirmed in the Brahma-saṁhitā that:

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
(Bs 5.1)

Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam means the cause of all causes. Just like my existence. I have got this body. The cause was my father. And the father, his father was cause. You go on searching, father, father's father, his father, grandfather, great-grandfather . . . go on searching, searching, searching. Don't think that because you cannot see just now your great-grandfather, oh, there was no father of the grandfather. Don't think like that. There was. Although he is . . . don't think that "Anything which is out of my sight, because I cannot see, so there is no existence." No. This conclusion is not good. This is not very intelligent conclusion. Because I cannot see what is happening beyond this wall, oh, that does not mean there is nothing beyond this wall.

So everyone wants to see God immediately. God you can see when you are perfectly qualified. When you are in perfect knowledge, you can see God eye to eye, just like you are seeing me, I am seeing you. But that requires qualification. You have to wait. That qualification is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That qualification means Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

This Kṛṣṇa consciousness begins with śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam (SB 7.5.23).

Śravaṇam, hearing. We have to hear about Kṛṣṇa. Just like the Śrīmad-Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of understanding or hearing about Kṛṣṇa. Hearing about Kṛṣṇa.

Just like suppose I came to your country, United States of America. Oh, in my childhood I heard of it in school when I was reading geometry or something like, history or geography. I heard first of all. I did not come first of all. So hearing, hearing, when I understood, "Oh, that's a very wonderful country, and it is far away, and if I go there . . . similarly, as you think also about going to India, so first of all hearing. Hearing. Not immediately seeing what is America or what is India. First of all hearing. So similarly, if we want to see God, then we have to hear. That is the process. Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is first is hearing. Śravaṇam. Śravaṇam means hearing.

Then kīrtanam. Kīrtanam means to chant about the glories, about the holy name, about the form, about the quality. Then this is association with Kṛṣṇa. Because Kṛṣṇa, or God, is absolute. He is not different from His name, from His quality, from His form, from His pastimes. He is not different. So hearing and chanting of the quality or form or name of the Supreme, of the Absolute, means our association with Him. Association. Direct association, in transcendental quality. So as we go on making association, then Kṛṣṇa helps us to understand Him.

Śṛṇvatām . . . it is in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is a verse:

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi
vidhunoti suhṛt satām
(SB 1.2.17)

Suhṛt satām. Kṛṣṇa is sitting within your heart. Kṛṣṇa is the . . . is acting as your spiritual master, caitya-guru. Caitya-guru. Caitya-guru means the guru, or the spiritual master, who is sitting in my heart, citta. So śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ.

When you begin to hear about Kṛṣṇa, then the hearing of kṛṣṇa-kathā, the topics about Kṛṣṇa, is puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ. It is, even if you do not understand, it will increase your virtue. Puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi. We have accumulated so much dust by our material contact. By so many years' association with the matter, we have accumulated so much dirty things within our heart. That becomes gradually cleansed. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi. Hṛdy antaḥ-stho means the dirty things which we have accumulated within our heart, that becomes cleared.

That . . . how it is cleared? Hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām. Śrī Kṛṣṇa is friend of everyone, but He's a special friend to the devotee. That you will find in Bhagavad-gītā. Samo 'haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu na me dveṣyo 'sti na priyaḥ (BG 9.29):

"I am friend of everyone. Nobody is My enemy and nobody is My friend. But I am equal to everyone." Sama, sama means equal. Ye tu bhajanti māṁ bhaktyā teṣu te mayi (BG 9.29): "But a person who is devoted to Me and is engaged in devotional service with Me, I have got special attention for him."

Therefore Kṛṣṇa's another name is suhṛt satām. Satām. Satām means those who are trying for having eternal life. Because in this material world we don't get anything eternal. All, everything, temporary. Therefore it is called asat. Asato mā sad gama. The Vedic injunction is, "Don't try to remain in this temporary world." Sad gama: "Just try to go to the eternal world." Tamaso mā jyotir gama: "Don't try to remain in this darkness. You go to the kingdom of light." These are Vedic injunctions.

So Kṛṣṇa, He is within our heart. Hṛdy antaḥ-sthaḥ. Therefore, as soon as we become a little inclined towards Kṛṣṇa, then from within our heart He gives us the, I mean to say, favorable instruction so that we can gradually make progress. Gradually.

Kṛṣṇa is the first spiritual master, and when we become more interested, then we have to go to a physical spiritual master. That is enjoined in the next verse:

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Now, Kṛṣṇa advises that, "If you want to know that transcendental science, then you just try to approach somebody." Praṇipātena. Praṇipātena, paripraśnena and sevayā. What is praṇipāta? Praṇipāta means surrender. Surrender. You must select a person where you can surrender yourself, because nobody likes to surrender to anyone.

We have got . . . everyone, we are puffed up with our whatever knowledge we have got. Everyone is puffed up: "Oh, who can give me knowledge?" There is regular propaganda that "For spiritual realization there is no need of spiritual master." But so far Vedic literature is concerned, so far Bhagavad-gītā is concerned, so far Bhāgavata is concerned, so far the Upaniṣads and Vedic literatures are concerned, they do not say. They say that there is need of a spiritual master.

Take for example the Upaniṣads, the Vedic Upaniṣads. In the Vedic Upaniṣads it is said, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet, śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham. (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.2.12)

This mantra, that: "If you want to learn that transcendental subject, then . . . first word is that if you are eager to learn that subject.

In the material world also, suppose if I want to learn the art of music. Then I have to find out somebody who is a musician. Without having the association of a musician, nobody can learn the art of music. Or any art. Suppose if you want to become an engineer. So you have to enter yourself in an engineering college or technical college and learn there. Nobody can become a medical practitioner simply by purchasing book from the market and reading at home. That is not possible. You have to admit yourself in a medical college and undergo training and practical examination, so many things. Simply by purchasing book, it is not possible.

Similarly, if you want to learn Bhagavad-gītā or any transcendental subject matter, here is the instruction by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself. Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, because He is the speaker of this Bhagavad-gītā, He says that tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34):

You must go to a person where you can surrender yourself. That means you have to check, "Who is the real person who can give me instruction on Bhagavad-gītā or any Vedic literature, or any scripture, right?" And not that to search out a person as a, whimsically. No. You have to search out a person very serious, that who is actually in the knowledge of the thing. Otherwise why you shall surrender? No. There is no necessity of surrender.

But here it is said clearly that, "You have to surrender to a person." That means you have to find out such a person where you can voluntarily surrender. Without finding, your mission will not be fulfilled. Because very word, first thing, is . . . just like Arjuna in the beginning. We have discussed that point. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa in friendly terms, just like friend. He was . . . Kṛṣṇa was saying something, "Oh, you cannot . . . you are a kṣatriya. You are a military man. How can you give up the fighting?" Just like friendly talks. But when Arjuna saw it, that "Our friendly talk will not make a solution," so he surrendered unto Kṛṣṇa that, "I'll . . . siṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7):

"I just become surrendered disciple unto You. Please instruct me what is my duty." So this is the process. Here also, Kṛṣṇa advises that "If you have to learn," say, for Bhagavad-gītā, "then you have to go to a person where you can surrender." Not only surrender—not blindly surrender—you must be able to enquire. Paripraśna. The next qualification is paripraśna. Paripraśna means enquiry. Without enquiry, you cannot make advance. Just like a student in the school who enquires from the teacher, he's very intelligent. Even a boy, a child, if he enquires from the father, "Oh, father, what is this? What is this?" that child is very intelligent. Very intelligent.

So enquiry is required, so not only praṇipāta . . . "Oh, I have found out a very good spiritual master, very learned and very good, soul. All right. I have surrendered. Then all my business finished." No. That is not . . . you may have a very good spiritual master, but if you have no power to enquire, then you cannot make progress. Enquiries must be there. But enquiry, how enquiry? Not to challenge. Enquiry, not that "Oh, I shall see what kind of spiritual master he is. Let me challenge him and put some irrelevant question and talk nonsensically, this way and that way." Oh, that will not make . . . enquiry on the point. Paripraśna means enquiry on the point, and that enquiry should be sevā.

Sevā means service. Not that: "Oh, I have enquired so many things from such-and-such person. Oh, I have not rendered any payment or any service, so I have gained." No. Without service, your enquiry will be futile. So three things here: praṇipāta, paripraśna and sevā. Praṇipāta. Praṇipāta means you must have the qualification to, at least, to find out a person who is actually qualified to give you real instruction. That you have to do. That remains on you.

Suppose you have to purchase some gold or jewelry, and if you do not know where to purchase, if you go to a grocer shop to purchase a jewel, oh, then you'll be cheated. If he says . . . go to a grocer shop and ask, "Oh, can you give me diamond?" he will understand that "Here is a fool. So let him . . . give him something: This is diamond." "Oh. What is the price?" He can charge anything, and when you come home, your relatives say, "What you have brought?" "This is diamond. I went to the grocer shop." So that kind of finding spiritual master will not do. You have to become a little intelligent. Because without being intelligent nobody can make any spiritual progress.

Athāto brahma . . . in the Brahma-sūtra, in the Vedānta-sūtra, it is stated, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā means to enquire, enquire about the supreme subject matter, Brahman. That requires a qualification. Atha. Atha means those who have become experienced of this miserable life of this material world. They can enquire. They can enquire what is Absolute Truth, what is spiritual life. Athāto brahma jijñāsā.

Similarly, in the Bhāgavata also it is stated, tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21).

Śreya uttamam. Uttamam means the udgata-tamam. That is transcendental. Tama means darkness. Anything of this material world, that is in darkness, because this material world is dark. You know that the whole world, whole universe, is dark. Therefore there is requisition of the sunlight, moonlight, electricity. It is dark. So uttamam means which is beyond this darkness. Beyond this darkness. That means transcendental subject, spiritual subject. In the spiritual world there is no darkness.

So if anyone is desirous of inquiring about the spiritual world, then he requires to find out a spiritual master. Otherwise there is no necessity. For a man who wants to remain in this darkness, for material benefit . . . suppose I want some spiritual master or I want to study Bhagavad-gītā or Vedānta-sūtra so that I may make some material improvement. Oh, that is not required. For material improvement you can work, just so many people are working; they are making, trying industry or something like . . . that is prescribed. But if you are at all interested about the Brahman subject, the spiritual subject, then you require a spiritual master.

That is clearly stated. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta (SB 11.3.21). Tasmāt means "Therefore one has to surrender unto the spiritual master." Who? Who is jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam: "Who is very much eager to understand about the transcendental subject." So any Vedic literature the same instruction you'll find, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Jñāninaḥ means jñānī, or a man who is in perfect knowledge. Perfect knowledge means one who has perfect vision of the perfect—not theoretical, but actual vision of the spiritual subject matter. He is called jñānī. Jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ. Tattva, tattva means the Absolute Truth. Now, so far tattva is concerned, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā that Kṛṣṇa is the supreme tattva, Absolute Truth.

Now, He explains that manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3): "Out of many, many thousands of people, a few people may try how to get spiritual salvation." Not all. Everyone is not expected to hanker after spiritual salvation. That requires also many, many years' qualification. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu. After many . . . out of many, many thousands of people, one is very much anxious for spiritual realization. And then Lord Kṛṣṇa says, yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3):

And out of many perfected spiritualist, some may know what is Kṛṣṇa. Just try to understand. First of all, out of many, many, many thousands of people who wants to have perfection in spiritual life, then those persons who have attained such perfection, out of them, one or two may understand what is Kṛṣṇa.

So the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa is not so easy. It is very difficult also. But one can understand very easily. That process is also prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā:

bhaktyā mām abhijānāti
yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ
tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā
viśate tad-anantaram
(BG 18.55)

Bhakti, devotional service. That devotional service if you accept, you can understand that difficult subject matter of Kṛṣṇa very easily. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti. Abhijānāti means perfectly you can understand. Yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ. Tattvataḥ means the Absolute Truth as it is, you can understand. And tato māṁ tattvato jñātvā: and after understanding the Kṛṣṇa science very perfectly, he becomes eligible to enter into that spiritual kingdom. These things are stated. So here, we are discussing this point that:

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

So if we actually want to reach that point of perfectional knowledge where we can fully surrender . . . now, the intelligent person . . . according to my opinion—I have several times discussed this point—that if it is a point that after many, many births, when I am fully perfect in knowledge, I have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa, then why not immediately surrender to Him? Why shall I wait for many, many births? Oh, that is very intelligent proposal. If that is the end of perfection, then why not accept the perfection immediately? But people are doubtful.

Somebody asked me . . . that, I think, Mr. Moscowitz asked me this question; I answered this point. His enquiry was, "How long it will take to be perfect in Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" So I replied that Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be had in one second, and it cannot be had in thousands of birth and death. So why? But if we understand this principle that after attainment of full knowledge, I have to ultimately surrender to vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, I have to become the, I mean to say, sa mahātmā, a great soul like that, why not immediately surrender to Kṛṣṇa? Why not become immediately the supreme, I mean to say, great soul, sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ? That is a process.

But we are, some of us, or most of us, we are not prepared to accept immediately Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme, or we have got many doubts. Therefore, in order to drive away, dissipate all your doubtful ideas, the śāstras, the scriptures, the Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, are there, and if we make scrutinizingly study of these two books, we can understand the Kṛṣṇa science very nicely, and our progress in the matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be definite.

Thank you very much. If there is any question, you can ask. (break)

Brahman and Supersoul, we have been discussing this morning. Perhaps just we began the verse and you have forgot. Just like myself, I am soul, the spiritual soul. My place is within this heart. Now, in the medical science, they have found it that the heart is the center of all vitality of this body. The, I mean, modern materialistic science, they have found that whatever we are eating, it is going to the stomach and it is being transformed into various types of secretions, and the important secretion is coming to the heart and it is becoming red by coming to the heart. Then again from the heart there are many veins; it is being distributed to different parts of the body. So . . . but they could not found that where is the point where from this vitality is coming. Where from this vitality is coming, they could not find it. They have localized that "Here is the source of all energy."

Now, in the Bhagavad-gītā you will find that Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate . . . ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8):

"I am the origin, fountainhead of everything, and everything what is being produced, it is from Me." Similarly, the soul is a fragmental, fractional portion of Kṛṣṇa. So now the modern scientist, they have localized the point wherefrom the energies are coming. Now that point is there. That fragmental portion of Kṛṣṇa is there in the heart. That is Brahman.

And . . . but that is fragmental portion. So Brahman means this fragmental portion. And the Supreme Brahman . . . what was that question? Brahman? Supersoul. Supersoul is Kṛṣṇa. Supersoul is Kṛṣṇa, and we . . . I am, you are, you are soul, we are jīva, and the Supreme Soul is Kṛṣṇa. This verse the next morning we shall discuss. We came this morning just up to that point. We've come up to anyam, that verse.

So Supersoul, Supersoul is the Supreme Lord. Supersoul is also there. They are situated together. From the Vedic Upaniṣads we get this information that two birds are sitting on one tree. The one bird is eating the fruits, and the other bird is simply witness. So witnessing bird is the Supersoul, and the bird which is enjoying and suffering of this material contamination, or attachment, that is soul. Is it clear?

Devotee (1): You mean actually Kṛṣṇa is in here?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa . . . yes. He is in the still more higher position. You are very intelligent. This Supersoul is also partial representation of Kṛṣṇa. Just like the sun, the real sun, and the reflection of sun. If you have got thousands of pots in your presence, you will find the reflection of the sun in thousands of the pots, but the real sun is one. Similarly, this Supersoul is the reflection of the reality, partial reflection of the Supreme. Is it clear?

Just like you are standing here, and at noon the sun is on your head. And five thousand miles away you enquire from somebody, "Where is sun?" he will say: "Oh, it is on my head." Five thousand miles this way or that way, any way you enquire, many, many people, many thousands of people you enquire, they will say, everyone will say that, "The sun is on my head." Similarly, although the sun is one, as he is perceived that he is present on everyone's head, similarly, although Kṛṣṇa is one without a second, by inconceivable transcendental power He can be present in everyone's heart. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs 5.37).

That is the power of Kṛṣṇa. That is the power of Supersoul. We cannot. Suppose I am sitting here, you are sitting here. You are not at your home. I am not in India, I am sitting here. I cannot sit simultaneously in India and America. That is not possible for me, because I am not Supersoul. But the Supersoul can be present everywhere. You will find this explanation in the Thirteenth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā. Now we are discussing the Fourth Chapter. When we go to the Thirteenth Chapter, this point will be more clearly explained.

Devotee: (indistinct) . . . [break)

Prabhupāda: . . . about the spiritual master. So your question should have been on the matter of spiritual master, because we invite questions on the subject which we discuss in this point. This is also relevant question, because we will read from the Bhagavad-gītā. Now we have discussed about the position of the spiritual master. Now, if you have got any question about that, the relationship between the spiritual master and the disciple, if you have got any doubts, if you have any questions, that you ask.

Devotee (2): If one surrenders to a spiritual master, what then is their relationship to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Oh. Spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, surrendering to the spiritual master means surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. He is the bona fide. Spiritual master is just like, as just I explained the śloka, hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām (SB 1.2.17)

I'll try to relate one nice story in this connection, the story of Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja was a child, and he was insulted by his stepmother. So he went to his own mother and he prayed, "My dear mother"—he was five years old only—"my stepmother has insulted me in this way. I was sitting on the lap of my father, and he (she) dragged me out. She told me that 'You cannot sit on the lap on your father.' " So he was the son of king, so he felt insulted and he went to his mother and cried. Then he asked his mother, "What is the remedy?" Because he was a son of a kṣatriya, he was resentful.

So his mother directed, "My dear son, your father do not care for me, so he will not hear whatever I say. So if God can help you, then you can get revenge." Then—he was child—he said: "Oh, where is God?" Then mother replied, "Oh, we understand that God is in the forest. Somebody goes to the forest and realizes God. So you cannot go, my dear son." "No, I shall go."

So he went to the forest. He went to the forest, and he was asking the tiger, "Oh, you are God?" The elephant, "You are God?" Just like a child. Then when he was so serious, then, because God is within himself, then he was . . . Nārada was sent to him that, "You go to the boy. How he is anxious that what is the actual point, you just try to help him."

So this is the process. When we are seriously anxious about understanding the science of God, then God is within you—He will make your relationship with such a spiritual master who will enlighten you further and further. So practically, the spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa. Now, it depends on me. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham (BG 4.11).

The degree of my serious thought, if I am seriously about actually perception of the Supreme Lord, then I will get such a spiritual master who can give me information of the Supreme Lord. But if I want something else, then Kṛṣṇa will help you in that way also, you will get something else.

So ye yathā māṁ prapadyante. The spiritual master is the representative of Kṛṣṇa, and He, Kṛṣṇa, is sitting within your heart. And as you are anxious, your degree of anxiety will be helped by Kṛṣṇa by sending similar quality of spiritual master.

Let us have kirtan. (end)