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| <div class="code">760809mw.teḥ</div>
| | '''Please note''' |
| | | *The first part of the text that was on this page is now found here: '''[[Garden Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran]]''' |
| Prabhupāda: And mix with mustard oil and this, what is called, eggplant. Eggplant roasted in the fire and put with little mustard oil, salt and chilis, it becomes very tasteful. So puffed rice and that, they take in Bengal. That is tiffin, for breakfast. Formerly they were happy simply by eating palatable dishes according to...
| | *The second part of the text that was on this page is now found here: '''[[Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran]]''' |
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: Today they have become so rich they cannot eat.
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| Prabhupāda: That's it. Simply they can eat meat.
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| (Morning Walk)
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| Prabhupāda: Drinking is prohibited.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, absolutely not. The modern Muslims drink.
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| Prabhupāda: Therefore I say drinking is prohibited.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: Prohibited. Yes. It is not permitted, prohibited.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, I say prohibited.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: Muslim religion, it seems to me, is closer to Vedic culture than Christian. [break]
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| Prabhupāda: ...given to the modern scientist one proposal, egg proposal. You explain.
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| Hari-śauri: That if the scientist are so expert then they should be able to back up their claim of life coming from chemicals. Then why can't they produce an egg which will give life? They can take some chemicals and make the white, and take some little coloring to make it yellow inside, and wrap it up in some modern synthetic casing, and then put it in an incubator and let it produce life.
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| Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty? These rascals, it is proposed that life comes from chemicals. So take a small egg and analyze, find out the chemicals, same chemicals combine together, and bring life. Why? What is the answer? He's for the modern scientists. (laughter) He represents them.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: And the scientists will sit on the eggs?
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| Prabhupāda: Scientist may not be. They're putting the incubator, producing so many chickens. So why the egg is taken from the chicken? Why not manufacture and produce hundreds and thousands of chickens, chemical? First of all, begin with chicken then with other.
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| Parivrājakācārya: They say they are working on this.
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| Prabhupāda: Rascal, working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Where is your credit? [break] Mines, as soon as it is national, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gauḍīya Maṭha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. Machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. [break] ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: Not so much. They are not as peaceful as Indians. They are not as pious as Indians.
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| Prabhupāda: They cannot be. In India still you'll find hundreds and thousands of men are going to take bath in the Ganges in the morning. They might have only one cloth and one napkin. Still, they will take twice bath with the napkin, they change the cloth and wash it and spread it on the ground. By the time he finishes his bathing, the cloth is dry. That is India's advantage. And he puts some fresh cloth. And the napkin is also dry. And he'll become refreshed. And in his loṭā he'll take some water of the Ganges and he'll go home. In Vṛndāvana you'll find many thousands in the morning, with loṭā they go out, evacuate somewhere, and then wash hands, mouth, with cloth, taking bathing in the Ganges, Yamunā. Now they are polluting the Yamunā water, the government. In Vṛndāvana government is opening oil refinery, and people are being encouraged, "These are new temples." Everywhere people are being degraded. They have no tendency to become purified, God conscious, honest. Because they do not believe in the next birth. This garden belongs to the palace? No.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: It so-called belongs to the people, to the government. But here palace has a lot of influence.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, the king must have. That is... Clean here.
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| Hari-śauri: No they're just looking. Probably the amount of cleaners that's been past, this should be the cleanest spot in the whole park by now. (Iranian men talking)
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| Iranian: Pustu.(?)
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| Prabhupāda: Tustu(?) language, tustu. This language resembles like that. This Irani language. [break] And they are claiming it is ours. Nobody has created anything. God has created for His pleasure. Everything is God's property, and they have made an unfavorable situation, "My property." Now here is a city, it is all right, there is no trouble. If I say it is my property and you say it is your property, then there is trouble. Then there is immigration department, "Why you are coming here?" Then the dogs barking, yow yow yow. This is going on as civilization. First of all, they claim God's property falsely their own, and they create a situation. And for this purpose the whole world is working, how to create a bad situation of proprietorship right on God's property, that's all.
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| Nava-yauvana: The statement made the other day by the king that all the forests and natural resources were made by God. No man can make these things.
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| Prabhupāda: The king?
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| Nava-yauvana: The king said that.
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| Prabhupāda: That's a fact.
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| Nava-yauvana: But his conclusion was not correct. He said therefore these things are owned by the government which represents the people. He didn't understand.
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| Prabhupāda: It belongs to God. This is accepted. And God... And everyone is God's son. Therefore as the son can enjoy the father's property, they can enjoy. But they cannot claim proprietorship. As directed by the father, one can enjoy the father's property, but he cannot claim that it is his property. This is the correct position. And the king is supposed to be representative of God to see that things are rightly going on, that's all. Nobody's unnecessarily claiming proprietorship. He should remind that "It is God's property. You can utilize it as far as you need; you don't take more. Whatever you need you take, but you cannot take more." Like the birds and beasts they are living. They do not make stock. They need to eat something, they'll eat some fruit, then they go away. When they are hungry they will go another tree. They never claim that "This is my tree, this is my fruit." This is natural. If you put a bag of rice here, the birds will come, they will eat some grains and go away. But a man, he'll go and try to stock something, and he will take more.
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| Hari-śauri: But they say that that's intelligence, to make preparation for the future.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, to steal God's property is certainly intelligence. Very good intelligence. They must suffer. Must be punished. For this intelligence they must be punished. (men talking in background) So if they want to hear, these men...?
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| Hari-śauri: Their idea is that God may have made everything, but now it's for us to divide up and enjoy between us.
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| Prabhupāda: Hmm?
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| Hari-śauri: God may have made everything, but now He has no connection with it now.
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| Prabhupāda: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.
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| Hari-śauri: No, He gives up the connection.
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| Prabhupāda: Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?
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| Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.
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| Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. [break] ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā [[ISO mantra 1]] . The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.
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| Hari-śauri: They're not interested in increasing the unnecessary items.
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| Prabhupāda: That's it. Why? If there is already sufficient supply of my necessities of life, why shall I waste my time? They knew how to utilize time.
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| Nava-yauvana: One argument that people sometimes give when we say that the world was created for His pleasure, they say that God...
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| Prabhupāda: How shall we go, we shall sit?. It is very...
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| Hari-śauri: I think the earth is very damp. If you sit on it, it becomes wet.
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: You sit on another bench. There's many benches.
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| Prabhupāda: The park belongs to government of the king. So you can come, sit down here, enjoy. Why should we claim proprietorship? Then there is trouble. Otherwise, it is kept very nicely. You come, sit down, enjoy the atmosphere. Everyone has got the right. But why shall we claim proprietorship unnecessarily and create trouble? Because you are allowed to sit down here, if you say, "From henceforward, I am the proprietor," then others will say, "Then I am the proprietor. Then why you are coming here?" Then there is trouble.
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| Nava-yauvana: They say that God has no need to enjoy.
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| Prabhupāda: Beat him with shoes on his face. Because He has created and He has no need to enjoy. Why He has created? He's your father's servant, that He's created for you? He has created for His enjoyment. That is the tendency everywhere. I create something for my enjoyment. But I can allow others to enjoy also with me, that is another thing. How can you say that God has simply created for your enjoyment? What is his claim? Is there any practical example in the world, that somebody creates something for others? Is there any example? Why do you claim in this way, which is unusual? What is the ground of your this rascal philosophy? Wherefrom you get this idea that I create something for somebody else? I create for myself, for my enjoyment. But I can allow you to enjoy with me. That is another thing. A father creates family for his own enjoyment. Wife, children, he wants enjoyment—society, family. Therefore he takes the risk of maintaining so many people. He feels some enjoyment, therefore he takes the risk. Otherwise he has no business. Why should he create unnecessary trouble to maintain a family, maintain wife, children and society? The principle is if you create something, it is created for your personal enjoyment. But I can allow my sons, my wife, my family members to enjoy with me. But the basic principle is for my enjoyment. This is natural. Where do you get this philosophy that...? What you said? That God cannot enjoy.
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| Nava-yauvana: Yes, He doesn't need to enjoy.
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| Prabhupāda: Why?
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| Nava-yauvana: They say because He's not like human being.
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| Prabhupāda: Because He's not like a human being, therefore He cannot enjoy. There are so many animals, they are not like human beings. Why they enjoy sex? Can you forbid him that "You are not like human being, you cannot enjoy"? This is all nonsense philosophy. Because they do not know what is God, what He is, what is His position, relationship, therefore these nonsense things are said.
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| Parivrājakācārya: They think that God is their servant.
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| Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
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| Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
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| Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.
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| Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?
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| Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.
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| Prabhupāda: Pleasure... So that is child. The child also feels pleasure with something. But it is the duty of the parent to train him to the right point of view. The child takes pleasure playing the whole day. But the father does not allow him. If you leave, let the child seeks his own pleasure, then you are spoiling him. Then there is no need of becoming your father, guardian, let him be spoiled by his whimsical pleasure. There is no need of training, schooling, colleges. There is no need. In my childhood I was not willing to go to the schools. My mother forced, by force she used to... My father was lenient and my mother kept a special man, yamadhara (?), that, "Your duty is to take him by force to the school." Yes. My father, my mother would complain that "Your boy did not go to school." "Oh, he did not go to school?" And I was sure he was very affectionate. "Why?" "No, I shall go tomorrow." Then father, "All right, he will go tomorrow, that's all right." But that tomorrow will never come. This is my practical. My mother forced me. So I thought, "It is pleasure. Why shall I go to school? Let me play whole day." But it is the duty of the guardian to see that this is not pleasure, this is spoiling. A child may think something pleasure, but the guardian should not think that this is pleasure. This is spoiling him. Otherwise why the guardians are required? Why government is needed, why king is needed, why father is needed, why guru is needed? Just to guide. Therefore whatever you think whimsically it is pleasure, the guru, the father, the king, the government, they should guide—"No, it is not pleasure, it is ruining. You should take like this." If the guru and father and the government, they are themselves rascals and fools, how they will guide? And that is the position. General public, they require guidance, but the guides themselves are rascals and fools, cheaters, bluffers. Therefore the condition, social condition... (passerby says something) He said in English?
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: No.
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| Prabhupāda: We shall go now?
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| Ātreya Ṛṣi: Whenever you like.
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| Hari-śauri: It's half past seven.
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| Prabhupāda: No, I have no objection. This is nice place.
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| Nava-yauvana: Because the leaders, they are thieves, they are taking the most, and then they...
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| Prabhupāda: They have become thieves because their guardians did not care for them. This is going on paramparā. The paramparā is that God's instructions should be distributed. Evaṁ paramparā. But there is no followers of God's instruction. Therefore the fool's, rascal's paramparā is there. The father is a rogue and the son is rogue. The grandson is a rogue. What is wrong? The paramparā is rogue. And if they follow God's paramparā, then everything is all right. In the beginning, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam: [[BG 4.1]] "I said." That is perfect instruction. God is all perfect, He is speaking. Now you follow that speaking, then you become perfect. And if you follow Satan, then you become a rogue, thief. The difficulty is they are not following the words of God. And religion means the words of God. It doesn't matter what kind of religion it is. If they actually follow the words of God, they become good. Just like in the Ten Commandments, the good instructions are there. So what is the wrong there? You follow, you become a good man. Similarly, in Koran also, there are good instruction. You follow, you become a good man. After all, religion means to try to understand God. So if you sincerely want to understand God and follow His instruction, any religion, it doesn't matter, you become a good man. Comparatively, according to the time, circumstances may be... Just like, who told me? You told me that they cut throat of the lamb. There is a... Suppose that the blood goes to the Mecca side, still there is sense of God. A sense of God. Similarly, if they follow strictly the words of God, so everything is all right.
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| Dayānanda: But, Śrīla Prabhupāda, nowadays when people follow this so-called religion, they...
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| Prabhupāda: No, no, we are talking of religion, not so-called religion. So-called religion is finished. That is not religion.
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| Dayānanda: Then it is very difficult to find out what is real religion.
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| Prabhupāda: Why not? Why the original, any religious scripture you can see.
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| Dayānanda: Then they will interpret.
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| Prabhupāda: No, that is wrong. You cannot interpret, you cannot change by resolution. That is not.
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| Dayānanda: Then they must have someone to tell them. Then they must have an authority.
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| Prabhupāda: It is already there, just like in the Bible.
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| Dayānanda: A spiritual master, I mean. They must have the person.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual master, yes, must be there. That is Vedic injunction. Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12] . Spiritual, that I have already explained. Spiritual master, good father, good king, good teachers, they are required. That is defect. There is no guru, there is no spiritual master, there is no nice king, nice father, whole society... [break] (in room) If you find out sand and rocks, you must also (indistinct) there was water. And from water, vegetation comes. From vegetation, other life comes. What we speak, we don't speak unscientifically. It is scientific. How this rascal says all of a sudden in the sky there is rocks? Wherefrom the rock came?
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| Hari-śauri: Well, they say originally from gas.
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| Prabhupāda: Gas?
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| Hari-śauri: Gas.
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| Prabhupāda: So gas, without water, there cannot be gas.
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| Hari-śauri: Gas and then it liquifies and then it solidifies.
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| Prabhupāda: Liquid means water. So as soon as there is water, there is vegetation. You'll find everywhere. Water dries up, vegetable comes.
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| Parivrājakācārya: Today they are exploring Mars, and they are saying that they're finding water on Mars.
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| Prabhupāda: Water's there. Everything must be there. Pañca-bhūta, mahā-bhūta. Ether, then fire, then water, then land. Everything is described in the Bhāgavatam. They cannot speak nonsense. They can speak nonsense through the other literatures, but we cannot speak. Without water, how there is possibility of sand? Sand means it is salt.
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| Parivrājakācārya: If you go out here, there is big desert.
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| Prabhupāda: That means there was water.
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| Parivrājakācārya: Yes, and under the desert always. I took a trip a few weeks ago, all over Iran, to the deserts, to villages, and always just forty feet, forty meters under the desert, lots of water. They would bring the water up and then there would be green, they would grow vegetables. So even here there's water.
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| Prabhupāda: The water, sea, as it becomes solidified, the outer surface, by sunshine, they become, it is called sodium silicate. Salt is sodium chloride. So from sodium chloride, the sodium silicate. So cover(?) of the sea they can solidify by the sodium silicate. But underneath there is water. Just like our, this skin, bone, coming from where? We are eating liquid and or some vegetables or some whatever, they are becoming liquidified. And first transformation is blood. Blood is liquid, and from blood everything is coming. The muscle is coming, the bone is coming. The more the liquid portion becomes solidified by air, gas, then these things coming. The formation of this body beginning the liquid semina, liquid ovum, mix together. From liquid. Then they form pealike solid thing, from that liquid. And then the body forms. Wherefrom the solid body forms? The man injects liquid. Liquid inject, everything is coming. So wherefrom the solid molecules? By chemical composition the body forms, from liquid to solid. So as soon as you see some solid thing, you must know that it has come from liquid.
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| Parivrājakācārya: It got its form from liquid. The form, it had to come from liquid somehow.
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| Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Yes, liquid. The discharge of semina is liquid. It is not solid. So how this body comes? You cannot bluff that a solid has come all of a sudden. There was liquid, or there is liquid.
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| Hari-śauri: Well, they'll accept that there was liquid.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, then there must have been vegetables. As soon as there is liquid there is vegetation.
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| Hari-śauri: Their argument is that because there's no atmosphere then there's no vegetation.
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| Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... That is another bogus. The atmosphere is the same everywhere. Little more. Just like... [break]... say in the sun planet there is living entity, there is fire. So what do you mean by atmosphere if even in fire there is life? Dahati pāvakaḥ. Bhagavad-gītā. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Pāvakaḥ means fire. Does not burn the soul. So where there is fire only, he develops fiery body. Not that by the fire it is finished. Nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Where there is gas, air, nainam... Find out this verse. Acchedyo' yam adāhyo' yam.
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| Hari-śauri: Gītā?
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| Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, yes. You do not read even. You should have reference immediately.
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| Parivrājakācārya: Even here on the earth, even ice in the South Pole of the earth, they find much life inside the ice.
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| Prabhupāda: Just see. Here inside the ice there are life.
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| Parivrājakācārya: They are very surprised. They said how is this happening.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with this material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.
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| Hari-śauri:
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| <div class="conv_verse">
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| nainaṁ chindanti śastrāṇi<br />
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| nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ<br />
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| na cainaṁ kledayanty āpo<br />
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| na śoṣayati mārutaḥ<br />
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| [[BG 2.23]]
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| </div>
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| "The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind."
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| Prabhupāda: So where is question of atmosphere influence? Suppose there is rock and sand and always hot weather. That does not mean there cannot be any life. The life is never affected by all these things. Make propaganda about this knowledge. People will understand that Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not joking; it is something serious. That boy was saying that these scientist, they know me. What is this boy's name, this boy said about the so-called astronomer, scientist? Who was this boy?
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| Pradyumna: Who came last night?
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| Hari-śauri: One of our boys, American boy, that tall boy.
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| Pradyumna: Here in this temple?
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| Hari-śauri: Yes. Jñānagamya. He used to do some science research as well.
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| Parivrājakācārya: The scientists are like all materialists. They think if we have not seen it...
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| Prabhupāda: You have to see from the book. Seeing from the book is real seeing. What you can see with these blunt eyes? I have seen in these navigators. They see in the different plans and books, and they direct their ship or airplane accordingly. How can he see where we are going?
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| Hari-śauri: Just like they land an airplane.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got all plans and direction, and altitude, latitude, which direction is going on(?) in front of the pilot. So everything is there. In what position the plane is there, how high it is and how low it will be, where it is, everything. On that direction they can fly. Otherwise, what they can see with the eyes? At most ten miles, and it is running at six hundred miles? What ten miles will do them? So śāstra-cakṣuṣā. Authoritative literature should be the eyes, not these blunt eyes. What is the value of these eyes? Here is authority: nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. You should go to the school, colleges, and from Bhagavad-gītā give them rascal knowledge. The whole world is in darkness, and these rascals are guiding them. You have tasted the baḍā ? Nim baḍā?
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| Pradyumna: This morning.
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| Prabhupāda: Huh? Did you like it?
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| Parivrājakācārya: It tasted very healthy.
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| Prabhupāda: Healthy?
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| Parivrājakācārya: Healthy. It tasted like it was good for me.
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| Hari-śauri: That means it didn't taste very nice, but we accepted it was good.
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| Parivrājakācārya: I know by my intelligence that it is good to keep eating, even though my tongue was saying "Stop."
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| Prabhupāda: No, this nim is good. They say that if you eat at least two leaves of nim daily, you'll never lose your appetite, appetite will be continuing.
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| Hari-śauri: Who can eat two leaves of nim ? (laughing)
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| Prabhupāda: No, if you practice, it is not impossible.
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| Pradyumna: I ate them one time. Remember in Bombay I thought I had worms? You told me to eat nim ?
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| Prabhupāda: Effective? What happened?
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| Pradyumna: Well, I didn't notice anything happened, but it was very, very bitter, so bitter.
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| Prabhupāda: So that worms cured or not?
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| Pradyumna: I don't know. Sometimes I think I have worms.
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| Prabhupāda: You should not eat sweet.
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| Parivrājakācārya: You cannot get nim in Iran. I have never seen a nim tree in Iran.
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| Prabhupāda: No tree. In the desert, where is tree? All desert. All this Middle East, desert. So they can be allowed to eat meat. Otherwise, what they'll eat? So everyone must eat something. So if there is no vegetation, if there is no sufficient, they can be allowed.
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| Parivrājakācārya: I visited some of these small villages in the south of Iran, and the tents of nomads who kept sheep, that was their life. They had a tent and they had hundreds of sheep, and they would move the tent every month. They would take the tent, for one month they would live here, next month they would move.
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| Prabhupāda: Why they're changing?
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| Parivrājakācārya: Because they're desert people. The sheep eat all the little green, and then they have to move on.
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| Pradyumna: Same thing as the Bible. When the sheep eat up all the green in that place, then they have to go to another place with their sheep. In the Bible the same thing. All that Abraham, Joseph...
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| Prabhupāda: Bible was produced here, in this desert. Jerusalem is not far away. Mecca, (indistinct), Arabia.
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| Parivrājakācārya: All they had to eat was the milk of sheep and goats and sometimes when they would camp near a farm they would have vegetables. Sometimes. And then the meat of the sheep.
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| Prabhupāda: And these dates. In the desert the date tree grows. Sometimes they eat camel also. Do they not?
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| Parivrājakācārya: Yes. But I don't think if they...
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| Prabhupāda: They cannot be strictly vegetarian; it is not possible.
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| Parivrājakācārya: It is difficult.
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| Prabhupāda: But even they eat meat they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no harm.
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| Parivrājakācārya: But now they are farming in the desert. The Iranian government has started farms. They are irrigating the land with water, and when they put water on the desert they get all kinds of vegetables and grains very easily. So if they do that then they can become vege... They have no excuse. The excuse of the people is that "We have to eat meat."
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| Prabhupāda: They can have rains from the sky by chanting. The rain will fall from the sky. Who can check it? Kṛṣṇa gives the water from the sky. Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ [[BG 3.14]] .
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| Parivrājakācārya: They say in the books that this area used to be all forest with many, many trees two to three thousand years ago. It was a very thick forest. But since then it has become desert, the rain has stopped since then.
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| Prabhupāda: Because the yajña stopped.
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| Pradyumna: The Sahara Desert used to be all trees, very fertile. Sahara Desert in Africa, it is the biggest desert in the world. Nothing...
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| Prabhupāda: Sahara, Sahara.
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| Pradyumna: Sahara Desert. It used to be very rich thousands of years ago, but then became desert.
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| Hari-śauri: It's supposed to increase its size by ten miles every year.
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| Pradyumna: Desert growth. Formerly, that city Carthage used to be there. Carthage was fighting Rome. Carthage was very rich, all farms.
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| Prabhupāda: Cartharian civilization was very big civilization. The thing is that the more people become sinful, they'll be disturbed by this natural atmosphere. Therefore I'm surprised that moon planet is inhabited by pious inhabitants, how there can be desert?
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| Pradyumna: But does moon planet have something to do with Pitṛs ? Does the Pitṛ..., Pitṛloka is different?
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| Prabhupāda: Pitṛ?
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| Pradyumna: Pitā, Pitṛ?
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| Prabhupāda: No, Pitṛloka is different. That is downwards.
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| Hari-śauri: Does that Pitṛ, does that refer to the original progenitors?
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| Pradyumna: No, forefathers.
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| Prabhupāda: Latest development they are finding water in Mars?
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| Parivrājakācārya: It is very difficult for them because they are using their eyes and other instruments. They have found places where there were rivers, and they are finding ice, other things. So, I don't know the latest about it. It is obvious to them there is life, different kinds of life.
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| Hari-śauri: The way of testing for life...
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| Prabhupāda: Why you are spoiling your nails? It may come to a boil and then you'll understand. It is very dangerous habit. If there is little (indistinct) then it will become a boil.
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| Pradyumna: Jñānagamya said that on Mars they found something like a crater with a house. Looked like a... Or a bombed-out thing. This Jñānagamya was working with a, he works with some information service, U.S. Information Service. So he was in charge of designing something here for Fourth of July. Some program. So he got this information from this U.S. Information Service which generally..., sometimes it isn't made public. It's just in their U.S. service. They'd seen some kind of a crater with...
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| Parivrājakācārya: Roads in it as well.
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| Pradyumna: Yes, something with roads in it or something.
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| Hari-śauri: The way they test for life is they take some soil and mix certain things with it, and then they wait and see if there is some life development from that.
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| Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.
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| Hari-śauri: Yes. They mix ammonia and...
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| Prabhupāda: Chemical theory. Why do they not in the end mix something and see if life is coming? They are all rascals, speaking one after another, rascals.
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| Hari-śauri: That's their whole thing, that if...
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| Prabhupāda: If by mixing something they can bring life, why not in the egg?
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| Hari-śauri: Yes, they can't even do it here.
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| Prabhupāda: Simply for... But you rascals you cannot understand how they are speaking rascaldom.
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| Hari-śauri: No, I can see now. I've been with you so long I can understand now.
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| Parivrājakācārya: They have sent this one ship to Mars at a cost of one billion dollars. They are making these tests.
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| Hari-śauri: Now there's a second one going around as well. That's Viking 1 that's on there now, and they have another one, Viking 2, that's designed to orbit.
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| Pradyumna: Vikings were names of pirates. Viking means pirates. Pirate's a thief. Vikings, they used to be thieves. They named their spaceship Viking. (laughs)
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| Prabhupāda: [break]...the idea going to the other planet? Colonization or what?
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| Pradyumna: One thing, they say, is security, that American and Russia are fighting. So it was a race to get to the moon because they think that from other planets they can control conditions on the earth. From another planet they can control weather or they can control different things.
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| Prabhupāda: Just see how bogus.
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| Pradyumna: That is one thing they say, we must get to the moon first, for security.
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| Prabhupāda: That is now failure. Now they'll do it from Mars.
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| Hari-śauri: Not so much from there for security, it's just...
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| Parivrājakācārya: Their pride, one country, just like children playing, one can say "I can fly higher than you," and so "We can go to the moon before you can." For no reason than just to show they can do it.
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| Hari-śauri: It's an excuse to spend money. It's for fun.
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| Prabhupāda: They cannot settle up their misunderstanding here. By going to the moon planet, they'll do it.
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| Hari-śauri: That's one thing that they said they were going to do, actually. They had some Russian astronauts and some American astronauts, and they had them meet in space, and then they joined their spaceships together and then they had a meal together and did some experiments, and then they left again. So that was very much acclaimed as bringing the two nations closer together.
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| Prabhupāda: We are afraid of these two classes of rascals. "Afraid of" means we don't want their association. It is very dangerous.
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| Pradyumna: You said in the Bhāgavatam just that, that we are afraid of the materialistic men.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.
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| Hari-śauri: A lot of the devotees had that experience living with their parents before they joined the movement. It was so hellish they had to get out. Then they, some way or other, met...
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| Prabhupāda:
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| <div class="conv_verse">
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| tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās<br />
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| janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ
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| </div>
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| Bhakta-sane bās , that is the essential part of progressing. Dayānanda's daughter came today, in my lavatory.
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| Hari-śauri: When you were in?
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, I was going... [break] Generally, this baḍā are made with paṭola (?) leaves, paṭola leaves mashed and mixed with this dahi.
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| Hari-śauri: Is that just as healthy as nim leaves? Paṭola leaves? Just the same.
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| Prabhupāda: It is better. [break] ...the influence of the moon planet, the vegetation grows. Do they accept, the modern botanists, influence of moon planet?
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| Parivrājakācārya: All the farmers, they...
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| Prabhupāda: They do believe?
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| Parivrājakācārya: They believe that. They plant certain seeds according to the moon.
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| Pradyumna: Even in the West they only plant certain things on the waxing moon, not on the waning moon. On śukla-pakṣa.
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| Prabhupāda: And moon is vacant. By the influence of moon, other vegetation growing, and it cannot grow itself.
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| Hari-śauri: They admit that the moon rays have some kind of potency. They know that.
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| Prabhupāda: No, it is stated in the Bhāgavatam.
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| Pradyumna: In the Jyotiṣa it has, it controls liquids. And I think even in hospitals here, near Pūrṇimā, where some of the times they don't like to do the operations because there will be more..., the blood will run more. Something, they have some, somebody told me. The tides are also going according to the moon. The rivers are running according to the moon. In the Ganges, one time we went...
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| Prabhupāda: The ebb tide, low tide, according to the moon.
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| Pradyumna: One day the Ganges was very peaceful, and then we went again and it was rushing. If you went in you would just be carried away. (long pause)
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| Prabhupāda: You can do it here.
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| Hari-śauri: You don't want to go outside today?
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| Prabhupāda: Outside is bright. (end)
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