770703 - Conversation - Vrndavana
Prabhupāda: And you think it is religion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, and he's an animal. What does he know?
Śatadhanya: And he's limited to a certain atmosphere.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. He is animal. Know that. What is his idea? And he has not correctly estimated that how high is Himalaya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. A gross underestimation-five miles instead of eighty thousand. Not even close. That means he has no idea.
Prabhupāda: There are... I have seen many places by aeroplane, hilly tract. Perhaps you have also seen. They could never go there. Hundreds and thousands of miles, simply stone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that we've seen.
Prabhupāda: Who is going there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah...
Prabhupāda: You have seen from aeroplane?
Śatadhanya: Some. Some mountains.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Alps no one can go there. There's places in the Alps. There's simply so many mountains, no one can go there. The map as the modern people show it—India, Africa, Europe, America, North America, South America—do we accept that much?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do we accept the contour of the continents? Do we accept the general continents?
Prabhupāda: We accept nothing of their theory. They are prejudiced and nonsense. Formerly they were speaking that the world is flat. Now they have changed: "It is round." So what is the value of his estimate? And you'll find in that book, "probably."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was the most frequent word used.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is the value of their knowledge? Besides that, they'll insist that life is combination of chemicals, and they cannot produce it. Simply useless. So it is, what is called, childish obstinacy. So why shall I believe them? Just like a child cries, "I want. I want," it is like that. There is no science. Still they will say it is science.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's nescience.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nescience.
Prabhupāda: Where is the proof that you produce life from chemicals? We say it cannot be, and they say, "Yes, it is..."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything in life comes from some other life.
Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Post-dated check.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So something's wrong with their instrument. When they fly from Los Angeles and their compass...
Prabhupāda: Nothing is wrong. From their estimate it is all right. But there is superior power.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They go due west and they hit India from Los Angeles, but according to our calculation, that's not possible.
Prabhupāda: You can go further, but you cannot go. That is condition. You are restricted. The same, that you are bound up. If an animal can go further... But he cannot, because he is bound up. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate BG 3.27 . He is thinking, "I am free." He is not free. So what is the value of his education? This is the real point.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll want to talk about another point.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll want to talk about the point that the point on their compass that points west while they're flying in the airplane, and they keep it going west, and they eventually land in India from Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: You are flying west or east—you do not know. You are controlled.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "No, our compass shows it. And you accept the compass."
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You are going west, but do you think where you think that the west is end, that is not end. You can go further.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say it never ends because we're going around the planet.
Prabhupāda: No, that is his dog's mentality, going round. That is dog. He is thinking that "This is the area. Now I..." He's controlled by superior power, that "You cannot go." An example is... There are so many. There are so many stars, moons, and we'll go there. But he cannot go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say, "We accept this premise, that we are limited."
Prabhupāda: But then limited, you cannot say final.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "But we say within our limited means we can understand that..."
Prabhupāda: And limited means if you understand that "I am bound up. I am going round the law," that is all right. But don't say that "Beyond this limit there is nothing."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, they don't.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But supposing that within this limit we accept that we are limited.
Prabhupāda: That is all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we say that we're going west and...
Prabhupāda: That's right, west up to this point, rascal, not more than that. Why don't you understand this? West you have gone. That's all right. But up to this point, no more. You cannot go. You don't say that there is no more after this western... They are saying that.
Śatadhanya: Yeah, they say, "Then west becomes east."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right, they say.
Śatadhanya: They say.
Prabhupāda: No.
Śatadhanya: But why? Just because it is finished for them...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śatadhanya: ...'cause they are limited.
Prabhupāda: Unlimited.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do they fly direct to India?
Prabhupāda: Unlimited way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This question they're still going to put. They're still going to put this question, that they... We say, "Here is Jambūdvīpa, and this is Bhāratavarṣa on the bottom, and you cannot go beyond Bhāratavarṣa because you're conditioned. You're limited. That is our position. And within Bhāratavarṣa there is India. We accept that. Even we accept that. There are oceans. There are continents, seven continents, as described in the Bhāgavatam. " So their question is: "Okay, but then how do you explain that you can go this direction and you come out in India, over, back here?"
Prabhupāda: We don't say that, that this direction, what you are saying, it is end. That is not. We say that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That it doesn't end.
Prabhupāda: That you can go further, but you cannot go. Therefore you are thinking, "This is end of the position." The same dog mentality. He is within that small area. He is thinking, "There is no more, other space." That example is another, that bull. His eyes are closed, and he crushes the oil mill, going. He's thinking he is going three hundred miles.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They keep the eyes blinded so he won't...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...understand what's going on.
Prabhupāda: Because in one place, simply going round, going round, it makes one mad. So those eyes are closed. He is thinking, "This is the end of world."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So you have said that, but still you have not given the solution.
Prabhupāda: This is solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've explained it...
Prabhupāda: Solution is that you are thinking, "This is this." You are making solution. You are making solution.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're trying to make.
Prabhupāda: But I say, because you are limited, this is not this. What you are thinking, "This is this," that is not.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So what is it?
Prabhupāda: Kūpa-maṇḍūka, the frog in the well, he is thinking that "This is the whole water area."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then what is it? If it is not what I am thinking, then what is it?
Prabhupāda: That I am explaining. Take it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we can't explain it. That's the problem.
Prabhupāda: No, no, why cannot explain?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the problem.
Prabhupāda: It is there, given in the book. What you are doing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the book, according to Bhāgavata and the picture that we have drawn, there's only one way to go from America to India.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's only one way to go from America to India, not two—at least to our vision. So far, we have not been able to explain it. That's our problem.
Prabhupāda: I do not... What...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'd better... I can bring our diagram.
Prabhupāda: Here is America. Here is India. If you go immediately, then one way, that's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, only one way. But they go two ways.
Prabhupāda: Two way?
Śatadhanya: From New York or from San Francisco.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can go from New York, that direction, or they go from Los Angeles, the other way. Either way, they come to India, and they say, "That proves the world is round 'cause we can go like this or we can go this way." But we say, "No, you can only go this way." But the compass shows I am going due east...
Prabhupāda: So we don't say differently. You can go this way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But we don't say that. Because there's no round, we say... Simply it's a lotus. It's not...
Prabhupāda: No, I... It is the same example. Just a animal is bound up, so he's going this round or this round, the same thing. But you cannot go beyond that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That they'll... "We accept." I take the view of the scientists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. We don't say. Suppose you are going round, you'll go this round or this round, but within the round.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But the whole question we're saying is that we say, "No, you can only go one way."
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But according to our...
Prabhupāda: If you are going round, you can go round this way or that way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But there is no round.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is round. You are thinking round. You are going round... (end)