770527 - Conversation C - Vrndavana
Prabhupāda: You haven't got to think over, "What shall I do now?" Never forget. So our first business is preaching. You should always remember. This is the education. These rascals, they have no father-mother-orphans. They may think as well-educated how to earn money. We have no... We are rich man's son. Economic problem is already solved. That is already taken. Tal labhyate yad anyataḥ sukham. We don't care for all this so-called improvement. That is already settled up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Just see how to become a man of character like Nārada, Vyāsa. That is our goal. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Not for any other. "And what about your material problems?" That is already taken. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Don't care for maintaining body. "What Kṛṣṇa will give, I take. If He does not give, don't mind." So discussing all this twenty-four hours and death takes place. Death, if takes place, then where is the wrong? Where is the lamentation? There is nothing... You are not permanent. You have to die. But if you die discussing all these things, that is your glorious death. Death is sure. You cannot avoid it, today or tomorrow or hundred years after. But die a glorious death. Yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ BG 9.14 . That is wanted. It is not... So I have called you for that purpose. So if death is to take place, let me die in your association and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no harm. That is glorious. Now it is very important point, Nārada's qualification.
Rāmeśvara: Purport: "These are the necessary qualifications of a..." [break]
Prabhupāda: This Nitāi, as soon as he mixed with some pseudo devotee, fell down. Rascal. He's searching after guru. And where is now?
Rāmeśvara: In America.
Prabhupāda: What does he do?
Rāmeśvara: Some karmī job to get money.
Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) And he's asking my blessings for a guru. He's a fanatic. [break] ...know that story, punar muṣako bhava. (laughter)
Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's a very suitable story for this case.
Prabhupāda: "Again become a mouse." That's all. "I made you tiger. Now you want to eat me? All right, you become again a mouse." [break] That is called dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination. Hm. Go on. [break] Doesn't create any... That is bhakti life. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa CC Madhya 7.128 . Bas. So where is the difficulty? The things are already there. I have to repeat it only. Why shall I create, make hodgepodge everything? But that they do not know. Bhaktivedanta has no difficulty. The things are already there. Simply you have to present them as it is. That's all. You become Vaiṣṇava. Where is the difficulty? And as soon as you change, become over-intelligent, spoiled, everything spoiled. That is the... (recording grows very faint, then inaudible) [break] What arrangement is...? What arrangement is made? [break] And if they do not repeat, they fell down(?). You have to bring. You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Here Nārada Muni is blaming Vyāsadeva, "You have not repeated." And here is a scholar, and he has repeated. The actual position is repetition. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ CC Madhya 7.128 . That is the position. So we shall go on doing that. Yes?
Rāmeśvara: Jaya. "Purport..." [break]
Prabhupāda: (Bengali)
Guest (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: They are now taking prasādam ? Give them prasādam.
Guest (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation with scattered English and Sanskrit) Kṛṣṇa says... You understand English?
Guest (2): No.
Prabhupāda: "I am the owner of all planets." Sarva-loka-maheśvaram BG 5.29 .
Guest (2): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (Bengali conversation) Treatment? Ei. They are always reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (1): Reciting nāma-saṅkīrtana. They are doing all the best and most proper thing.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) And Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes?
Prabhupāda: Where is that magistrate's...?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one from London?
Prabhupāda: Yes. How the magistrate has... We are getting good judgment in so many big, big cases.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The London one we won.
Prabhupāda: We have owned one case, very important case, in the Supreme Court of New York. I have translated into Hindi.
Guest (1): The case has been decided in your favor.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (1): Yes, that he told me and he...
Prabhupāda: No, I, by... A very learned judge has translated it. Because there are so many technical... And the Indian...
Guest (3): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) For this.
Guest (3): He is the greatest guru of the age.
Devotees: Jaya!
Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran, in the courts, the prince and princes are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in the court, in the palace.
Guest (3): Śrī Gaurāṅga's incarnation on his tongue.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have both, that one from London and New York.
Prabhupāda: That London is shorter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: London is a lot shorter. This happened in London, England. It says, "Next morning in the court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us." This is... "Our men were doing nagara-saṅkīrtana, so some constable, police officer, said that 'You are blocking the footpath with your nagara-saṅkīrtana, and I must arrest you.' " So they were taken to court. "The next morning in court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us. The judge, therefore, deferred our case to a later time, the 2nd of February at two p.m. It was not until the day before the hearing that we realized the actual significance of the appointment. The second day of February was the appearance day of Lord Nityānanda Prabhu. After ending a morning of fasting and chanting with a blissful ārati and splendid prasāda, we set off for the great Marlborough Street magistrate's court in a confident mood, sure that Lord Nityānanda would protect us. We were accompanied by a new and enthusiastic visitor to the temple, the Reverend Norman Morehouse, second only to the Bishop of Norwich, who came to observe the proceedings."
Prabhupāda: He's our great friend.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man is very big man in Christian church. He's a very good friend of ours.
Prabhupāda: He's very big man.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came with us to the court.
Prabhupāda: Impressed.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We arrived at the courthouse and waited in the big hallway while the Reverend went through to the public gallery. The plainclothesman who arrested us soon turned up, now dressed in uniform. It took a little persuasion before they cautiously took some of Lord Nityānanda's prasāda in the form of cookies while we waited for our case to turn up." The devotees brought prasādam with them to the courtroom and were distributing. "A stir went... At last we were beckoned into the courthouse itself and ushered into the dock. A stir went around the assembly in the court. Shaven heads and saffron robes were the last thing anyone expected to see in Her Majesty's court on a Tuesday afternoon. The magistrate, a balding, portly man in his late middle age, a red nose in his dark grey suit, surveyed us over the top of his gold-rimmed spectacles. We affirmed our plea of not guilty to the clerk of the court, and one of the constables who was sworn in at the witness box proceeded to report the supposed conditions of our arrest. The actual number of the chanting nagara-saṅkīrtana party miraculously grew from the original five first of all to seven when he started his account, and later to eight persons when he described how three devotees ran off and escaped arrest. According to his description, it seemed that many more people had been using Oxford Street than we had been aware of. Indeed, unlimited numbers of pedestrians had been obstructed and forced into the road at the grave risk of being run over by the almost nonexistent traffic. The judge listened impartially and then, since we had no advocate to speak on our behalf, he asked if we would like to cross-examine the evidence of the policeman. When we humbly pointed out that the constable, like everyone else, had imperfect senses, that he had contradicted himself in assessing the actual number of devotees, the judge politely suggested that it was a mathematical error. A titter of laughter rippled around the courtroom at his remark, while the police constable shuffled his feet and looked embarrassed. We were asked if we ourselves would like to speak for our defense, so having been previously chosen as a spokesman, I volunteered to be sworn in at the witness box. Surprised when the usher asked me to hold a copy of Bhagavad-gītā, I read out the words of the card presented before me." He didn't swear on the Bible; he swore on the Bhagavad-gītā. " 'I swear by almighty Śrī Kṛṣṇa that the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.' Encouraged by smiles from the devotees in the dock, I began to describe the circumstances of our arrest, this time as they actually had happened. The magistrate listened as I went on to say, 'We understand that the police have a duty to perform, sir, but we also have a duty. We have been instructed by our spiritual master. Indeed, we are instructed by all the principle scriptures of the world, the Koran, the Toraḥ, the Bible, and in the Vedas, that we should glorify God by chanting His holy names. Whether you know the Lord by the name of Allah, Jehovah, Rāma, Govinda, or Kṛṣṇa, God is one.' 'Oh, quite so, quite so,' affirmed the magistrate. Encouraged, I went on. 'It is said in the Vedic scriptures, in the Bṛhad Nāradīya Purāṇa, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam CC Adi 17.21 . ' 'In English. What does it mean in English?' the magistrate asked. ' Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. This is written in the Sanskrit language five thousand years ago. It means, "In the age of Kali, the present age of materialism and quarrel, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative for making positive spiritual advancement but the chanting of the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord." ' The judge, in fact the whole courtroom, sat there fascinated. I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction..."
Prabhupāda: Bring some fruits.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and I began to speak further. 'Although mankind has made great material advancement in so many spheres, we can factually say that there is a fault in the social body at large. People are not happy with their day-to-day activities, and there is an increasing disturbance of drug addiction, prostitution, violence and crime. The root of the problem is lack of God consciousness. People are unaware of the actual purpose of life.' The judge, intrigued by this sound philosophy coming from the witness box, relaxed his judicial appearance, sat back, and took a sip of water from his glass. Encouraged, I asked, 'Your honor, with your permission I would like to read a short passage which appeared in the London Observer in October, 1972. It is an excerpt from an article written by the eminent English historian Sir Arnold Toynbee. "The cause of it, the world's malady, is spiritual. We are suffering from having sold our souls to the pursuit of an objective which is both spiritually wrong and practically unattainable. We have to reconsider our objective and change it, and until we do this, we shall not have peace either amongst ourselves or within each of us." ' Then the devotee continued. " 'As devotees of the Lord, we strictly follow four principles, cultivating the qualities of human life: mercifulness, truthfulness, cleanliness and austerity. The absence of these qualities means the degradation of society. So the spreading of spiritual understanding amongst humanity at large is the highest welfare work, and an essential part of this program is the distribution and the congregational chanting in the street of the holy names of God.' 'Is that all?' inquired the judge. 'Yes, sir,' was the reply. 'Then you may step down,' he instructed. Adjusting his spectacles and regarding the devotees, who were once more assembled in the dock, he said in a very firm yet amicable manner, 'In legal terms you are guilty of obstruction, although it is of a very minor degree. Taking this into consideration and because of your obvious sincerity, I have decided to dismiss the case.' We smiled jubilantly and, thanking the magistrate, were about to step down when Kṛṣṇa prompted me to say, 'Sir, we were wondering if you had a court library here, in which case we would like to present a book for addition to the collection.' 'Thank you,' replied the judge. 'I am quite sure we can accommodate it.' Giving a copy of Śrīla Prabhupāda's Śrī Īśopaniṣad to one of the clerks, who promised to pass it on to the judge, we left the courtroom, thanking Lord Nityānanda for His mercy." Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda
Guest (1): (Bengali)
Prabhupāda: And that judgment is still wrong.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was written by one Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa brahmacārī. Named Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's one of Prabhupāda's English disciples.
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation)
Guest (3): (Hindi) You will be all right in due course of time.
Prabhupāda: No, I am confident when I am in Vṛndāvana I'm all right.
Guest (3): (Hindi) So many people committing crimes, they are doing sins. They have got their own fortunes. And you are affected by all that. Therefore you are... (Hindi) (Hindi conversation with Prabhupāda)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) You just receive him very well.
Guest (2): Bombay temple ke ... Girirāja.
Prabhupāda: He is the president.
Guest (3): (to Girirāja:) I am coming on llth June, so some day by will of the Supreme, I will be there.
Girirāja: You can stay with us if you like.
Guest (3): ...program I will come. (pause)
Prabhupāda: He is useless, tell(?).
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Whole thing. We have no hope for...(?)
Guest (1): (Hindi) I have asked this boy to give me some necessary points about your life.
Guest (2): Biography.
Guest (1): He's my brother-in-law.
Bhavānanda: Last year, when you came to Māyāpura... This is the motto of the mandira we're going to build.
Guest (3): Māyāpura? Navadvīpa?
Bhavānanda: You were there last year?
Guest (3): We had been there for three or four days in temple block.
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Guest (3): He's M.A. from Oxford.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Guest (3): Or he was the chief editor of Sarasvatī and Bhārata Daily paper.
Prabhupāda: Sarasvatī... (Hindi)
Guest (3): In Allahabad. He's from Allahabad.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) So you just take his address and go and see him. He'll help you.
Girirāja: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Take his address immediately.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: "Yes," what means? You take now address. Sarasvatī... (Hindi) It was started by some woman?
Guest (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (3): And he had been one of the chief editors, and he...
Prabhupāda: (Hindi)
Guest (2): Colonel Gaines(?).
Guest (3): Colonel Gaines.
Prabhupāda: Colonel Gaines, oh. (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) (pause) Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Sva-deśe pūjyate rāja-vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. (Hindi conversation) [break] Because in India, I can understand, there is an undercurrent. Is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Undercurrent is the right word.
Prabhupāda: Just now everything is going on, but after my demise it may be taken away from your hand.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew! You understood that from this discussion here with this man?
Prabhupāda: I understood it long ago. It has been stayed, (?) Bombay, Vṛndāvana. So how you are going to guard yourself? That is the problem.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I... Your order that it be a trust property with lifetime trustees...
Prabhupāda: So now you are all here. Very cautiously and everything agree.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will protect it. At least the property will be protected.
Prabhupāda: You should be very much determined, strong-minded. Otherwise it will slip. Such huge property...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually these properties are the envy of all of India. They're the best properties in each place.
Prabhupāda: Not only property. Our prestige, our position... Everything is envied. Everywhere we are first class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's no rival.
Bhavānanda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who want to try and pose themselves as guru.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Mādhava Mahārāja...
Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.
Prabhupāda: Very strong management required and vigilant observation. (background whispering, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Bhavānanda) So you are foreign...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Beg your pardon?
Prabhupāda: You are foreign trained up. And you also idea how to protect our interest.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm always...
Prabhupāda: There is very great undercurrent.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never trusted them much. I know those things. (background whispering, Bhavānanda)
Prabhupāda: Make it... (end)