[[Category:1977 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1977-03 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Bombay]]
[[Category:Conversations and Lectures with Hindi Snippets]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1977 - New Audio - Released in July 2012]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1977 - Conversations|1977]]'''</div>
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Hari-śauri: ...for myself? That boy who was with me from Australia, I've sent him back this morning. He's gone back this morning. There is actually two or three major things going on there, so I have to try to get back as soon as possible. There is a purchase of the farm, eight hundred acre farm, which comes up in about seven or eight days, and then we have to consider whether to buy that building in Sydney. You've seen that picture already. And also there's a big court case coming up in Melbourne. The deprogramming thing is going on there also. But this time the court case is being pressed by... It's a civil case. The police wouldn't take it up. So the girl who was kidnapped, we are pressing charges, but through her against the parents. So this is going to be a big case also. So that's coming up in the end of April. So I have to see what the presentation is like and get more information from Ādi-keśava and make sure that we will press it very strongly, the whole issue. Someone just sent a newspaper clipping about the whole thing. I expect to be going to Delhi in about two days, to try to speed up the process of getting a re-entry permit. Then once I do that, I can go on. (long pause) [break]
Girirāja: This evening, the chief guest is going to arrive at about a quarter to seven.
<div class="code">770326R1-BOMBAY - March 26, 1977 - 13:43 Minutes</div>
Girirāja: Yeah. He is supposed to be one of the leading doctors in India. Especially of heart, cardiology. So I also thought this would be a good night for Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu to make his presentation, so that this leading doctor can also attend that.
Giriraja: <span style="color:#ff9933">Aisa nahi hona chahiye na, yehi to kehne aaya hoon mai. Yahan likha hai Jay Prakash Narayan ke gurde itne kharab ho gaye the, agar ye . . . ka tasvir hi doosra ho gaya. Tab India me treatment hua, barabar jaanch karate below the bladder . . .</span> <span style="color:#128807">(It should not happen like this, this is what I have come to tell you about. It is written here that Jay Prakash Narayan's kidneys were damaged to a great extent, if this . . . the scenario was totally different. He took his treatment in India, if he had got it diagnosed below the bladder . . .)</span> (break)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Girirāja: And similarly the today's government leaders should also take advice from the saintly person.
Girirāja: And the television people are also supposed to come tonight, and show you and them the drama.
Prabhupāda: We can give nice instructions.
Prabhupāda: When you have to go?
Girirāja: He wanted to arrange a meeting with Morarji Desai in this week, but I told him that it would be better not to arrange anything until he comes back to Bombay in a week. But he gave me his phone number in Delhi if we want to contact him.
Akṣayānanda: The boys can leave at 6:15.
Prabhupāda: You want me to go there?
Karttikeya Mahadevia: We have enough time one hour. And K. K. Dattrey and I are working together in one association for the psychic surgery. He is the president, I am the vice-president, so I know him very well, personally.
Girirāja: No, I think it's better . . . first of all, as you mentioned last . . .
Prabhupāda: Cardiologist.
Prabhupāda: If he comes, I'll come.
Karttikeya Mahadevia: Cardiologist. He was cardiologist to the president also. He is very well known. And he is utilizing yoga for reducing the blood pressure in the heart, āsana and all those things. He is very much interested in yogic philosophy also. Yoga, haṭha-yoga.
Girirāja: Yeah.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: God conscious? Is he God conscious?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that Bombay is very important, so Morarji Desai must visit here. And when he visits here, he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so we can invite him to our temple. And at that time he can see you.
Karttikeya Mahadevia: I think so. He is a very open minded man to find out good things about anything, whether herbal medicine or yogāsana.
Prabhupāda: With his associates, invite him, give him ''prasādam''.
Prabhupāda: So after one hour we shall go?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be more impressive than . . . you should not have to go. The administrator comes to the guru. And if he won't come to you, then there is no question of his helping, anyone.
Guest (1) (Indian man): And about these two people, Girirāja Prabhu and (indistinct) who are willing to come, I will take them whenever possible, in April-May or June-July.
Girirāja: Right.
Prabhupāda: We have to take the proper... [break] ...is not good. You should avoid it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.
Girirāja: I think it was Kṛṣṇa's grace.
Girirāja: Now, for tonight's program, I was thinking that actually there is no need for you to come to the ''paṇḍāl'', because it's very strenuous, and Dr. Jawar knows us very well. He won't take offense. And he could, if you wanted, he could come for your ''darśana'' anyway, which would be less taxing.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Girirāja: Actually she is... Now the mayor, the mayor is scheduled for tomorrow, but he had agreed without checking his diary, and he has to come earlier, so what my idea is that he wants to come at five o'clock.
Bhavānanda: This Dr. Ojha says that your blood pressure is about 210 to 220 over 100. He said it should be about 150 over 90. He said any strain moving around . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So where he will be best.
Prabhupāda: But if required, I can go. If it is required, I can go.
Girirāja: Yes. So what I was thinking is that he could stop here for a few minutes and meet you. Actually his term expires on March 31st.
Girirāja: Well, I don't think it is actually required, because we have a very nice program.
Prabhupāda: When the chief minister or something like that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about tomorrow?
Girirāja: Chief minister is coming on Tuesday, on Rāma-navamī.
Girirāja: Well, tomorrow is a very big day. Rāma-navamī. The Chief Minister is coming.
Prabhupāda: But I am going to Juhu on Monday, is it not?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Initiation.
Girirāja: Well, we were originally thinking you could go on Wednesday, but...
Girirāja: And probably the Industry Minister will also come.
Prabhupāda: Oh. If they have arranged. I do not know what is your arrangement.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today, you were saying, it is Monday.
Girirāja: Oh, I'll find out. (long pause)
Girirāja: I was saying that since today is Monday, yesterday was Sunday, so most people probably thought that "I'll go Sunday or else I'll go on Rāma-navamī." So today I think fewer people will come.
Prabhupāda: When you'll call Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow speak.
Girirāja: Some of the newly elected members from the Janta party are coming back to Bombay today and tomorrow. So we will try to invite one of them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what you were thinking originally, that you would be going only on certain days to the ''paṇḍāl'', important days. (to Girirāja) Do you want to ask Prabhupāda about the press conference?
Prabhupāda: You say we have to go back to Juhu on... They say. [break] This is the center of mass movement.
Girirāja: So we wanted to invite the newspaper men to Juhu, and usually they are more inclined to come for these meetings if we give them a nice meal. So that would be . . . what I was thinking is that if you are taking your meal at twelve o'clock, then if you could meet them for a short time after that, say, at about twelve-thirty, and then after that then they can take their ''prasādam''. Otherwise we could have it in the afternoon, but I don't think we'll get as good response, because they are after that; they like that meal to be served.
Girirāja: Dr. Bigelow was also a heart specialist. You had that exchange of letters, this doctor in Canada. So he said that he felt that at the moment of death some particle or some force left the body which was not material and which could be called the soul, and he called upon theologians and scientists to research what is that thing that leaves the body and makes the body become dead.
Prabhupāda: Well, whatever time, you decide. But after taking my meals, I require a little rest.
Prabhupāda: Instead of going on Monday, we shall go on Wednesday.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that is fixed up now. I think Saurabha will be quite relieved. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the turn-out at the pandal has been quite good. Many good class of people have been coming. So Girirāja Prabhu and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Prabhu are thinking to extend the pandal on about another week, because there is not any extra costs more than about a thousand rupees, since the main cost is in actually building it. So Bhavānanda Mahārāja and myself felt that they could continue the pandal, and you wouldn't have to attend. Perhaps on the last day, which would be very big again, next Sunday, you could come. But they could, the devotees themselves could speak as they....
Prabhupāda: One hour.
Prabhupāda: I know that very nice. I want it may be possible for you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So by one-thirty or two.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that time would be better.
Prabhupāda: Why it should be closed?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two would be good, I think. You could invite them by one for prasādam. They could take for an hour or so. You could show them the movies, and then by two they could see Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. You once told us in Delhi that if we could arrange to continue it throughout the year, that would be good.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you invite them at one.
Prabhupāda: You want to do that, then do it. I don't mind. Every week, you can... At least...
Girirāja: Okay, that's good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. That means that we will have to send out regular invitation every week on a regular program to our life members.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be nice. One o'clock to one thirty, ''prasāda''; one thirty to two, movies; two o'clock, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: It is all right, you do it. We have got so much subject matter for speaking.
Girirāja: We can take them on a tour also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there will be an initiation on Rāma-navamī.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He can give them a tour of the whole Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. I think the more publicity we can get now of these temple and towers, that will get the people's anticipation all over Bombay very keen, so when it finally opens, millions of people will come.
Prabhupāda: Rāma-navamī is upavāsa up till the... Go to observe fasting up to the evening.
Prabhupāda: And if Morarji Desai comes to Bombay . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So moon.
Girirāja: I asked Mr. Rajda if he was coming, so he said that . . . (break)
Prabhupāda: Sunset.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that this is a sign of inhumanity. That we . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sunset, moonrise.
Prabhupāda: Inhumanity means I do not like you; still, I have to mix with you. Is that inhumanity?
Prabhupāda: Authorized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if you are my relative, then . . .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Rāmacandra, and Nṛsiṁhadeva also? Those three.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be. If you have no business with me, I have no interest in you, why shall I mix with you? That is everywhere. If some very busy businessman is sitting in his room and some other man comes, he, first he will ask, "What is the business?" If he says something else, then "I have no interest." This is common thing. What is the wrong there? If he says that, "I have no interest," what is the wrong there? How I can accuse that is inhumanity?
Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can I prepare this one? (indistinct) No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said that the family unit is the basic unit of civilization.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā Mahārāja's troupe will be performing Rāmāyaṇa. They are starting to perform tonight the Rāmāyaṇa. Tonight and continuing or through, as far as I know, till Rāma-navamī.
Prabhupāda: Well, family, that is all right. But even sometimes a father does not like the son, although it is the family. Or the son does not like the father. So what is the wrong there? They must agree to the point that of the same interest. So those who are interested in permanent, I mean to say, life, why they should be interested in this temporary so-called adjustment? (break)
Prabhupāda: I have taken six cāpāṭis.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The goal of life is different. Those who accuse us, they don't know that goal.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six cāpāṭis!
Prabhupāda: Nobody knows goal. Everyone is living like animal. Many other goal. They do not know. ''Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ'' ([[SB 7.5.31|SB 7.5.31]]). This is the modern civilization. They do not know what is the goal of life. And without knowing the goal of life, they are trying to adjust things on this material platform. That will never happen. ''Durāśayā''. Now suppose this race . . . on the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? The dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? <span style="color:#ff9933">Boliye . . .</span> <span style="color:#128807">(Tell me . . .)</span> What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die; and he will have to change, he'll have to change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be dog like that. ''Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ'' ([[BG 2.13 (1972)|BG 2.13]]). So my problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. ''Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu'' ([[BG 13.22 (1972)|BG 13.22]]). If you associate with certain type of modes of material nature, then you will have to accept the next body accordingly. The nature will not excuse you. The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.
Bhakti-caru: Do you require anything specific at night? Or that mungoli?(?)
Indian: So that is the big problem, because people don't know how to get out of it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By starving you at night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your appetite in the noontime is becoming increased.
Prabhupāda: No, they should know. Here we are teaching right. Why the rascals do not take advantage of us? They do not know. Therefore there is preaching. Why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there? Because these rascals, they do not know. Na te viduḥ. We are teaching. Kṛṣṇa is coming. ''Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata'' ([[BG 4.7 (1972)|BG 4.7]]). As soon as they forget, immediately Kṛṣṇa comes. He sends His representative to remind that, "This is not your life. This is life." Now if he does not take advantage of it, it is his fault. The knowledge is there. University is there. You can go, pass your M.A. examination. But if you go to the prison house and become a pickpocket, that is your fault.
Prabhupāda: No, I should not take at night. At night, a little milk and barley water. Light.
Girirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think we can go out. (end)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today we'll leave at twenty-five of seven instead of a quarter to seven. We'll arrive by seven at the pandal.
Girirāja: The thing is that the chief guest is reaching at a quarter to seven.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So then we can leave at 6:30. So Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara will speak this evening, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Would you like us to read from some book, or...
Girirāja: When do you want us to show a few slides, that slide presentation?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think only just four or five explaining in terms of precedence. It's solid that way. The words are just empty. (indistinct) ...taking that way. Becomes more, er...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hari-kathā, is it dark at 7:15?
Hari-kathā: 7:15 is dark.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's dark. No, Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu will lecture after the chief guest, but just before Śrīla Prabhupāda. But by then it will be 7:30, quarter to eight.
Hari-kathā: 7:30 definitely dark.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we can arrange for a slide show.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also we can speak from slides.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think it's possible. (discussion about the slide show between devotees) [break]
Prabhupāda: So if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat [[BG 7.5]] . Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific... Then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals, that "You have got power and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda's mercy.
Prabhupāda: What Dr. Dattrey says, after hearing your lecture?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many..., some engineers came, and some doctors also came. They wanted us speak in Bombay Hospital. And just now also I got a letter from England from Jagadguru Swami. He said that on our way to the United States we should stop in England. He says that he talked something about Bhaktivedanta Institute in England. He said we should speak in Oxford and Cambridge Universities. He said there is a very good preaching background there. So he invited us to...
Prabhupāda: You will be invited. You stick to your position and train up your assistants and recruit more and more. We shall come out successful. Write books. You can take. Now yesterday Dr. Dattrey, did he say anything?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some life members came later on when the greeting of the pandal was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.
Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not... When you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is (indistinct)." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut phut phut phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bāla-kṛṣṇa told me that we have doctor, medical doctor, M.B.V. He's from Russia. He is going to join us.
Girirāja: Yeah, Dr. Sharma. He lives on Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. He's an Indian who took his degree in Alaska and he has two sister-in-laws also who took their doctor's degree in Moscow, and they have great faith in Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh... They are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and... Organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.
Prabhupāda: Let them come.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or... Turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.
<div class="conv_verse">
yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas<br />
tat tad evetaro janaḥ<br />
sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute<br />
lokas tad anuvartate<br />
[[BG 3.21]]
</div>
These people. Bring important men, important student. Take this opportunity. Give them nice place so that they may not be uncomfortable. Give them good food.
Girirāja: Yes. We have a lot of facility.
Prabhupāda: Then there should not be any scarcity for their comfort. People are trained up to the modern comforts. Therefore I am building so big, big institution. Otherwise, I... That's a fact. Rādhā-Dāmodara temple is sufficient for me. It is not for me I want these big, big buildings. I am accustomed to live anywhere. But those who are educated, scientists, they are accustomed, Europeans, Americans... They must be given proper place. That was my Guru Mahārāja's policy. Not that all of a sudden they should now live on the floor. No, that's not possible. Then they will be disturbed. Give them nice place, give them nice food, nice instruction. You are all intelligent boys. Do it immediately. Another building construct. That colony should be for first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious people, to preach. So Gargamuni, you also help.
Gargamuni: Yes. We stopped in a college, Acyutānanda and myself, a D.A.B. college, and we spoke to some of these professors of physics, and we showed him the books and especially that Scientific Basis...
Prabhupāda: On the whole I very much appreciated your presentation. I thank you very much.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Girirāja: They like that book, Scientific Basis.
Prabhupāda: The real scientific method is that the life which is in contact with this matter, he's suffering. And the real, I mean to say, enjoyment or peaceful life is to get him out of this condition of material contact. That is the best benefit. But these rascals, they are trying to adjust material things to give him happiness. "You are walking, all right, you take this car." That is not happiness. He does not know that in the car there are so many problems—more danger than walking. This is the mistake going on. Car is good, but that is not the solution. Solution is different. That we must... Na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum [[SB 7.5.31]] . Let us go back to home, back to Godhead. (pause) So that Sharma is more impressed.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Sharma just came here from the United States. He studied for a few years. So he is also a cardiologist.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And he had some friends there in Bombay Hospital, and he is going to definitely make arrangement so we can give a seminar in the hospital.
Prabhupāda: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will also make some engagements in... There is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: These things the swamis cannot do.
Girirāja: No. None of them. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Either Cinmayananda or this Sai Baba or this...
Indian man: Muktananda.
Prabhupāda: They cannot.
Gargamuni: None of them. Especially in India, this will be a great attraction, if we speak these subjects... We should call a press conference. Whenever these scientists make some new discovery they hold a press conference. So we should also hold a press conference and say "Life comes from life."
Prabhupāda: That will come automatically. We are not very great scientists.(?) Let us speak important institute.
Śrīdhara: In India they have a club, and some of the famous scientists in India belong to it. It's called the "Life Comes From Matter" club.
Devotee: Really?
Prabhupāda: Challenge them.
Śrīdhara: I think you met one of the head men.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I met a head man. He is in Trombay, the Bhava(?) Atomic Research Center. But I discussed for about three and a half hours, and he showed me all the laboratory that he is doing. And then we sat together and then we discussed the...
Prabhupāda: Did you record all the talks?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This was not recorded.
Prabhupāda: It should be recorded.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't have my cassette with me.
Prabhupāda: You keep one assistant, to record you.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I pointed out the mistakes, the defects that we have in scientific studies, and he thought very carefully and he agreed to the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes, any intelligent man should agree to the right point.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what we were doing. That was the...
Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.
Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.
Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.
Śrīdhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.
Prabhupāda: No.
Girirāja: They keep the money in black.
Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.
Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.
Prabhupāda: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Indira Gandhi.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal importance they have...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in... Formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya.(?) These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief: "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his... This is going on.
Śrīdhara: I remember one example, you said we do not care who is manager of the stool room.
Prabhupāda: Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. So make plan to speak in these big, big institutions. And recruit members from them.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: : Do you think that in America there will be much receptivity at this time?
Prabhupāda: Make first of all in India.
Girirāja: From India you can be famous.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, first of all, when we have this journal out, this volume, first volume is going to be out in about three months, and then it will be more effective. We are going to speak, at the same time distribute the journals in the form of written forms, as evidence of what has been spoken. So that way it has more weight. And if they don't understand they can read it and study, and they can...
Prabhupāda: In the meantime let us recruit some important... Just like this Russian scientist.
Girirāja: This Dr. Khorana is supposed to be...
Prabhupāda: I think as our books are entering Russia, it will create something.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I think it will be...
Prabhupāda: Eighteen books, Bhāgavata, they have ordered.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a joke. Someone is going to read them. The Russians are the biggest readers in the world.
Prabhupāda: Not only that. They are anxious to read from Indian literature. They know there is substance in these books. That they know.
Gargamuni: In some of the libraries where we left books, we have gone back, and the librarians have said that your books are very heavily read. They are taken out and read. We have gone back, because I wanted to find out, to see how many, and they said, "Oh, they are very popular. They are always being taken out." We asked some librarians. So they are definitely being used.
Śrīdhara: Tell him about that one vice-chancellor.
Gargamuni: Yeah, I did. I told him. Even your old Bhāgavatams, we looked in the back. One boy looked in the back where they have the check-outs, and they were heavily used for many years. At least thirty times they were taken out in last few years. The old Bhāgavatams. [break]
Prabhupāda: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement... Art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. If you have got Nārāyaṇa background, then what is the cause of being afraid?
<div class="conv_verse">
nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve<br />
na kutaścana bibhyati<br />
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv<br />
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ<br />
[[SB 6.17.28]]
</div>
Prahlāda Mahārāja, so much obstacles by his father at home. Still, he is speaking to his father:
<div class="conv_verse">
tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ<br />
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt<br />
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ<br />
vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta<br />
[[SB 7.5.5]]
</div>
The father was astonished that "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatās... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ [[SB 6.3.20]] . We have got small boys also as good as Brahmā, more than Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ prahlādaḥ kapilo manu, prahlāda. Immediately comes Prahlāda also. Amongst svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ... . janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakiḥ. Read Bhāgavatam, amalaṁ purāṇam. Read yourself, let them read. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no question of cheating or getting some some material profit out of this movement. We have no such thing. Material profit will automatically... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "You are thinking of material things so. We should come and fall down at your feet, 'Why you are worrying? You go and speak the real truth.' " (Bengali:) " 'Go and speak the truth.' " No compromise. So I never had scarcity of money. He is from the very beginning.
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Coming, money was... You know. You were also.
Gargamuni: You made the landlord a member. Mr., hm,...
His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
770326R1-BOMBAY - March 26, 1977 - 13:43 Minutes
Giriraja: Aisa nahi hona chahiye na, yehi to kehne aaya hoon mai. Yahan likha hai Jay Prakash Narayan ke gurde itne kharab ho gaye the, agar ye . . . ka tasvir hi doosra ho gaya. Tab India me treatment hua, barabar jaanch karate below the bladder . . .(It should not happen like this, this is what I have come to tell you about. It is written here that Jay Prakash Narayan's kidneys were damaged to a great extent, if this . . . the scenario was totally different. He took his treatment in India, if he had got it diagnosed below the bladder . . .) (break)
Girirāja: And similarly the today's government leaders should also take advice from the saintly person.
Prabhupāda: We can give nice instructions.
Girirāja: He wanted to arrange a meeting with Morarji Desai in this week, but I told him that it would be better not to arrange anything until he comes back to Bombay in a week. But he gave me his phone number in Delhi if we want to contact him.
Prabhupāda: You want me to go there?
Girirāja: No, I think it's better . . . first of all, as you mentioned last . . .
Prabhupāda: If he comes, I'll come.
Girirāja: Yeah.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that Bombay is very important, so Morarji Desai must visit here. And when he visits here, he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so we can invite him to our temple. And at that time he can see you.
Prabhupāda: With his associates, invite him, give him prasādam.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be more impressive than . . . you should not have to go. The administrator comes to the guru. And if he won't come to you, then there is no question of his helping, anyone.
Girirāja: Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.
Girirāja: Now, for tonight's program, I was thinking that actually there is no need for you to come to the paṇḍāl, because it's very strenuous, and Dr. Jawar knows us very well. He won't take offense. And he could, if you wanted, he could come for your darśana anyway, which would be less taxing.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Bhavānanda: This Dr. Ojha says that your blood pressure is about 210 to 220 over 100. He said it should be about 150 over 90. He said any strain moving around . . . (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But if required, I can go. If it is required, I can go.
Girirāja: Well, I don't think it is actually required, because we have a very nice program.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about tomorrow?
Girirāja: Well, tomorrow is a very big day. Rāma-navamī. The Chief Minister is coming.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Initiation.
Girirāja: And probably the Industry Minister will also come.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today, you were saying, it is Monday.
Girirāja: I was saying that since today is Monday, yesterday was Sunday, so most people probably thought that "I'll go Sunday or else I'll go on Rāma-navamī." So today I think fewer people will come.
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow speak.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what you were thinking originally, that you would be going only on certain days to the paṇḍāl, important days. (to Girirāja) Do you want to ask Prabhupāda about the press conference?
Girirāja: So we wanted to invite the newspaper men to Juhu, and usually they are more inclined to come for these meetings if we give them a nice meal. So that would be . . . what I was thinking is that if you are taking your meal at twelve o'clock, then if you could meet them for a short time after that, say, at about twelve-thirty, and then after that then they can take their prasādam. Otherwise we could have it in the afternoon, but I don't think we'll get as good response, because they are after that; they like that meal to be served.
Prabhupāda: Well, whatever time, you decide. But after taking my meals, I require a little rest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How much rest, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: One hour.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So by one-thirty or two.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that time would be better.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two would be good, I think. You could invite them by one for prasādam. They could take for an hour or so. You could show them the movies, and then by two they could see Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you invite them at one.
Girirāja: Okay, that's good.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be nice. One o'clock to one thirty, prasāda; one thirty to two, movies; two o'clock, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Girirāja: We can take them on a tour also.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He can give them a tour of the whole Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. I think the more publicity we can get now of these temple and towers, that will get the people's anticipation all over Bombay very keen, so when it finally opens, millions of people will come.
Prabhupāda: And if Morarji Desai comes to Bombay . . .
Girirāja: I asked Mr. Rajda if he was coming, so he said that . . . (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that this is a sign of inhumanity. That we . . .
Prabhupāda: Inhumanity means I do not like you; still, I have to mix with you. Is that inhumanity?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, if you are my relative, then . . .
Prabhupāda: Whatever you may be. If you have no business with me, I have no interest in you, why shall I mix with you? That is everywhere. If some very busy businessman is sitting in his room and some other man comes, he, first he will ask, "What is the business?" If he says something else, then "I have no interest." This is common thing. What is the wrong there? If he says that, "I have no interest," what is the wrong there? How I can accuse that is inhumanity?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They said that the family unit is the basic unit of civilization.
Prabhupāda: Well, family, that is all right. But even sometimes a father does not like the son, although it is the family. Or the son does not like the father. So what is the wrong there? They must agree to the point that of the same interest. So those who are interested in permanent, I mean to say, life, why they should be interested in this temporary so-called adjustment? (break)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The goal of life is different. Those who accuse us, they don't know that goal.
Prabhupāda: Nobody knows goal. Everyone is living like animal. Many other goal. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is the modern civilization. They do not know what is the goal of life. And without knowing the goal of life, they are trying to adjust things on this material platform. That will never happen. Durāśayā. Now suppose this race . . . on the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? The dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? Boliye . . .(Tell me . . .) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die; and he will have to change, he'll have to change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So my problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you associate with certain type of modes of material nature, then you will have to accept the next body accordingly. The nature will not excuse you. The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.
Indian: So that is the big problem, because people don't know how to get out of it.
Prabhupāda: No, they should know. Here we are teaching right. Why the rascals do not take advantage of us? They do not know. Therefore there is preaching. Why Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there? Because these rascals, they do not know. Na te viduḥ. We are teaching. Kṛṣṇa is coming. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). As soon as they forget, immediately Kṛṣṇa comes. He sends His representative to remind that, "This is not your life. This is life." Now if he does not take advantage of it, it is his fault. The knowledge is there. University is there. You can go, pass your M.A. examination. But if you go to the prison house and become a pickpocket, that is your fault.
Girirāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think we can go out. (end)
