770324 - Lecture SB 02.03.20 at Cross Maidan Pandal - Bombay
Bhavānanda: "One who has not listened to the messages about the prowess and marvelous acts of the Personality of Godhead and has not sung or chanted loudly the worthy songs about the Lord is to be considered to possess earholes like the holes of snakes and a tongue like the tongue of a frog." SB 2.3.20
Purport: Devotional service to the Lord is rendered by all limbs or parts of the body. It is the transcendental dynamic force of the spirit soul; therefore a devotee is engaged one hundred percent in the service of the Lord. One can engage in devotional service when the senses of the body are purified in relation with the Lord, and one can render service to the Lord with the help of all the senses. As such, the senses and the action of the senses are to be considered impure or materialistic as long as they are employed only in sense gratification. The purified senses are engaged not in sense gratification but in the service of the Lord in toto. The Lord is the Supreme with all senses, and the servitor, who is part and parcel of the Lord, also has the same senses. Service to the Lord is the completely purified use of the senses, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Lord imparted instructions with full senses, and Arjuna received them with full senses, and thus there was a perfect exchange of sensible and logical understanding between the master and the disciple. Spiritual understanding is nothing like an electrical charge from the master to the disciple, as foolishly claimed by some propaganda-mongers. Everything is full of sense and logic, and the exchange of views between the master and disciple is possible only when the reception is submissive and real. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said that one should receive the teaching of Lord Caitanya with intellect and full senses so that one can logically understand the great mission.
In the impure state of a living being, the various senses are fully engaged in mundane affairs. If the ear is not engaged in the service of the Lord by hearing about Him from Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, certainly the holes of the ear will be filled with some rubbish. Therefore the messages of Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam should be preached all over the world very loudly. That is the duty of a pure devotee who has actually heard about them from the perfect sources. Many want to speak something to others, but because they are not trained to speak on the subject matter of Vedic wisdom they are all speaking nonsense, and people are receiving them with no sense. There are hundreds and thousands of sources for distributing mundane news of the world, and people of the world are also receiving it. Similarly, the people of the world should be taught to hear the transcendental topics of the Lord, and the devotee of the Lord must speak loudly so that they can hear. The frogs loudly croak, with the result that they invite the snakes to eat them. The human tongue is especially given for chanting the Vedic hymns and not for croaking like frogs. The word asatī used in this verse is also significant. Asatī means a woman who has become a prostitute. A prostitute has no reputation for good womanly qualities. Similarly, the tongue, which is given to the human being for chanting the Vedic hymns, will be considered a prostitute when engaged in chanting some mundane nonsense.
(followed by lecture by Hṛdayānanda) [break]
Prabhupāda: ...great responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gītā throughout the whole world. It is meant for the human being and—do not mind it—it appears that rarely a human being is found there to take up the responsibility in India. They're talking all nonsense. The real message of Indian culture is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati BG18.68 . Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ BG18.68 . Kṛṣṇa says at the end of His instruction that "Anyone who is taking the responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gītā to the devotees..." Because unless one is devotee, one cannot understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ BG18.68 . To know Kṛṣṇa superficially, that is a different thing. You can imagine anything nonsense. But if you want to know Kṛṣṇa as He is, that requires intelligence.
manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
So we have to understand Kṛṣṇa tattvataḥ, as He is. This tattvataḥ word has been used in several places in Bhagavad-gītā. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ BG 4.9 . Here is one tattvataḥ. Kṛṣṇa's appearance and disappearance is not ordinary thing. Yo jānāti tattvataḥ: "Anyone who understands in truth..." So what is the result? Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya BG 4.9 . Immediately becomes liberated. Immediately he becomes eligible not to accept any more this material body. Tyaktvā deham. Everyone has to give up this body, material body. You cannot remain permanently Indian or this party or that party. You have to change your body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ BG 4.9 . So why should you waste your time in this way, that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am horse," "I am cat," "I am dog"? There is no difference. If a dog is thinking that "I am dog," and if I am thinking "I am Indian," where is the difference? The mentality is the same: I'm identifying with the body. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. Anyone who is thinking of this body as himself,
yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma ijya-dhīḥ
yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
Go-khara. Go means cow, and khara means ass. Anyone who's identifying with this body as self, he's go-khara, animal. So this animal civilization is not meant for India's culture. India's culture is different. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ BG 2.13 . Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti BG 2.13 . This is India's culture. Why should we identify ourself as animal—"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this"? It is wrong type of civilization, go-khara civilization.
So our little attempt is... We are not manufacturing anything. We are not manufacturer of religious system, neither it is possible to manufacture. Just like you cannot manufacture law. Law is given by the state. Similarly, dharma means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam SB 6.3.19 . Dharma means the law given by God. That is dharma. You cannot manufacture. Who cares for your manufactured system? Just like nobody cares for if you make some law, that "I have made some law," and go to the court, "Sir, I have made this law. Please accept." "He's lunatic. Drive him away." That is not possible. This is dharma, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja SB 6.3.19 . This is dharma. Don't manufacture dharma. [break] Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata SB 6.3.19 . What is that glāni? Discrepancy. So glāni is disobedience to the order of God. That is glāni. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata. So the whole world is denying, śūnyavādi, nirviśeṣa-vādi, nirākāra-vādi: "No God. God is dead." So what kind of religious system they'll manufacture? They are simply misled. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ SB 6.3.19 . Very tightly regulated by the laws of nature, and still, we are independently manufacturing religion. This is not possible. Give us this... Sarva-dharmān parityajya SB 6.3.19 . Actually this is dharma. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje SB 6.3.19 . It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian, or any other sect. The test is how much you are advanced in understanding God. That is the... If you do not understand God, if you have no obedience to God, that is not dharma.
So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very important movement. It is neither manufactured nor unauthorized. It is authorized, the oldest. Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I am repeating the same yoga, purātanam. Kṛṣṇa does not say that "I am manufacturing another system of yoga." No. "I am speaking to you the same yoga system."
imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
proktavān aham avyayam
vivasvān manave prāha
manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
So yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. As soon as we deviate from the original system, it is naṣṭa, spoiled. So what is the use of giving things which is already spoiled? But it cannot be spoiled if you follow the paramparā system. This is the secret of success. So our only request is that India should not be misled by imitating the Western type of civilization, unnecessarily fighting on political and social... These political, social, there is problem, but that is temporary. Temporary... We must have our interest to the real life. Somebody yesterday was speaking of health. So what is health? If you are going to die, what is the value of your so-called health program? First of all you stop death; then the question of health. Kṛṣṇa said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre BG 2.20 . First of all come to this position. Then even after the destruction of the body, you are not destroyed. That is health. That is health. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti BG 2.20 . That is health, not that patchwork: you have got some disease, take some pill and again become diseased. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate BG 2.20 . That is not health. Here is health.
But we have no brain to understand. That Kṛṣṇa said, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre BG 2.20 . Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit— at any time. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre BG 2.20 . Where is that medicine? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre BG 2.20 . I am dying, my father is dying; my son is dying. But even if we accept, "Yes, we are accepting another body," but what do you know what kind of body you are going to accept? What is the position? There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. If you become an insignificant worm, then it will take millions of years by the evolution process to come again to this human form of body and come to..., there may be chance to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not very easy. If I miss this opportunity, I may miss millions of years. So this knowledge should be given. It is not expected that everyone will accept or understand. But this knowledge must be current. A class of men, the brāhmaṇa class, the Vaiṣṇava class... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu BG 2.20 — that is a fact. But still there must be somebody out of millions to understand this philosophy. And there is good opportunity now. We have published so many books on this subject matter, and we have got very nice place in Bombay, Juhu. Please come, read our books, try to understand the philosophy and make your life successful.
Thank you very much. Any question?
Girirāja: Are there any questions? Please come forward with your questions. You can ask them in the microphone at the front of the stage.
Indian man (1): When chanting, you chant the name of Rāma as well as Kṛṣṇa. I do not see any photograph of Rāma here. What is the thinking?
Prabhupāda: You do not see, but can you hear?
Indian man (1): I do not see!
Prabhupāda: But you do not hear!
Indian man (1): Photograph, that we are seeing.
Prabhupāda: Hearing is also experiencing. Why do you want to see? You do not see your father who is dead.
Indian man (1): No, why? Why? Kṛṣṇa has so many...
Prabhupāda: No. Seeing and hearing is the same thing. Suppose you have grandfather. Are you seeing him? How do you accept you had a grandfather?
Indian man (1): I saw him all right.
Prabhupāda: That is hearing.
Indian man (1): No, I saw him also.
Prabhupāda: You saw... You did not see your great-grandfather. But how do you know? Hearing is also another process.
Indian man (1): My question is whether there is distinction between Rāma and Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: The distinction is that hearing is also a process of acquiring knowledge. Why don't you accept it? Simply seeing is not acquiring knowledge. There are so many senses, and hearing is the first-class sense to understand which you cannot see. (applause)
Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
Girirāja: Next? Please come forward with your questions. Asking questions is a sign of intelligence. Athāto brahma jijñāsā .
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you scared them away.
Indian man (2): How could I know the unknown within the known?
Prabhupāda: This is already explained. How could you know your great-grandfather? From the paramparā system. Your father says, "Yes, I had my grandfather." So from the authority of your father you can understand. This is easy process. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ BG 4.2 . You have to hear. Therefore Veda is called śruti. Śruti means you have to hear from the right source. Then you know. That is knowledge. You don't hear from a cheater. You hear from the right source. Then the knowledge is perfect.
Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Indian man (3): If a man is highly religious, it is very difficult for him to move in the material world. What is the subject? How should he move, the people who are materialistically-minded?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore you have to understand your spiritual identification. Because you are fools and rascals, you are thinking, "I am this body," and Kṛṣṇa gives instruction in the beginning that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā BG 2.13 . Asmin dehe: you are within this body, not this body you are. So Kṛṣṇa is authority. You have to take it. Kṛṣṇa is not only simply speaking authoritatively but He is giving practical example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā BG 2.13 . Because the soul is within the body it is changing. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati BG 2.13 . You have to become a dhīra, not adhīra. There are two classes of men: dhīra and adhīra. So in order to become a dhīra, you have to go... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12] . You have to be trained up. Then you'll understand, not so quickly, without being dhīra. Dhīras tatra na muhyati.
Indian man (4): What is the difference between mind and soul?
Prabhupāda: Mind is material; soul is spiritual. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca, apareyaṁ bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā BG 7.4 . They are also elements, but bhinnā means material, separated from Kṛṣṇa. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām: "These material elements, they are inferior quality, and beyond this, there is another, superior quality. That is soul." Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bāho yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat BG 7.4 . So you have to know from the books. That you now understand?
Indian man (5): Swamiji, they read a lot that Bhāgavata says that our body is a temple for the soul, and the soul is a temple for the spirit. Would you kindly enlighten us on this point?
Prabhupāda: That is already explained, that you are soul within this body, the body superficially covered with the senses. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ manasas tu parā buddhiḥ BG 3.42 . You have to analyze that "First of all, I am prominent by my senses. My body means my senses. But the senses are useless unless there is mind." Indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. If your mind is not in order, your senses cannot act. Therefore mind is superior than the senses, and the mind cannot act if you have no intelligence. So manasas tu parā buddhiḥ. And if you can go beyond the intelligence, then you can find out what is soul. So it requires study. It requires education. The education is there. The books are there. The teachers are there. Unfortunately you are not interested to take the spiritual education. You are now interested in technology, how to hammer, that's all.
Indian man (6): It is told that athāto brahma jijñāsā . Whether to attain that Brahman you should follow that Brahman which is qualityless and shapeless, that is nirguṇākāra or ṣoḍaśākāra(?) ?
Prabhupāda: Brahman is always greater than anything. If you limit within some limited idea, that is not brahma-jñāna. Brahman is unlimited, the greatest. Bṛhatvān bṛhanatvat(?). So Brahman includes everything— nirākāra, sākāra, and whatever you can speak. But Brahman ultimately is sākāra. It's not nirākāra. That is the verdict of the śāstra.
vadanti tat tattva-vidas
tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
brahmeti paramātmeti
bhagavān iti śabdyate
This is brahma-jñāna. Brahman... Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything Brahman, but there is division- brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Just like the sun. The sunshine is impersonal, but the sun globe is localized and the sun-god is person, but the same sun. Similarly, you have to understand Brahman. When you cannot understand the real nature of Brahman, then it is nirākāra. And when you partially understand, Paramātmā, then localized. And you fully understand, that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Jaya! (applause)
Indian man (6): It is said that first athāto brahma jijñāsā , and then it is said athāto brahma jijñāsā . It is said by one Yājñavalkya. Is there any difference between these two?
Prabhupāda: So brahma-jijñāsā, spiritual inquiry. So the cat and dog cannot inquire. It is not possible. But when you have got this human form of body, especially born in India and especially born in a Brahman family, if you misuse your life like cats and dogs, that is a great loss.
Indian man (7): Idol worship, impersonal, considered as a stepping stone. Is it fact?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow. What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Is worshiping the idol a stepping stone?"
Indian man (7): Idol worship, mūrti-pūjā, is considered as a stepping stone only. When you attain something, then you need not do.
Prabhupāda: So unless you step one by one, how you can go to the topmost? You have to.
Indian man (7): After attaining that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you have to step on the first step, then second step, then... Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate SB 1.2.11 . So everything requires training and knowledge.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtana. [break]
Indian man (8): Can you please explain that it is our only way out for salvation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. People are so fallen that they cannot take the life of tapasya. Athāto brahma jijñāsā . This is the life of tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam SB 5.5.1 . So, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena vā SB 5.5.1 . So, there is process of tapasya, but in this age, Kali-yuga, people are so fallen that they cannot undergo all the items of tapasya. It is very difficult. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has not manufactured. It is mentioned in the śāstra that only by this process.
kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann
asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ
kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya
mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet
This is special concession to the Kali-yuga, that there are so many faults in this age, but if one sticks to this principle of kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet, he becomes liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.
Indian man (8): And is it so, that in Śrīmad-Bhāgavata it is also written, many really great men want to be here in Kali-yuga, because it is easier to be for salvation? Only by...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I am speaking. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya. Kṛṣṇasya kīrtanād eva mukta-saṅgaḥ param. Simply by chanting. Therefore we practically see that these Western people, they are not coming from high-class brāhmaṇa or Vaiṣṇava family, but still, by kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya they are becoming so liberated that they are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness all over the world.
Indian man (8): Another thing, my last question. I shall not disturb you. The name is power, and to utter name...
Prabhupāda: The name is the person. This is absolute. Absolute.
Indian man (8): Personified.
Prabhupāda: Not personified. He is person.
nāma cintāmaṇiḥ kṛṣṇaś
caitanya-rasa-vigrahaḥ
pūrṇaḥ śuddho nitya-mukto
'bhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ
There is... Just like here in this material world, dual world, water and the name "water" is different. But in the spiritual world, Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name is the same. Abhinnatvān nāma-nāminoḥ. So these things are to be realized one after another if you come to the process. Thank you very much. (end)