[[Category:1976 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1976-11 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - India]]
[[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]]
[[Category:1976 - New Audio - Released in November 2013]]
[[Category:Audio Files 10.01 to 20.00 Minutes]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1976 - Conversations|1976]]'''</div>
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(Śrīla Prabhupāda is taking prasādam during first part of the conversation)
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<div class="center">[[File:speaker-icon-50px.png|link=]][[Vanipedia:761103 - Conversation - Srila Prabhupada Speaks a Nectar Drop in Vrndavana|<big><big>'''Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation'''</big></big>]]</div>
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Prabhupāda: ...and we don't smoke even. We don't spend a paisa even for sense gratification.
Jagadīśa: They're squandering billions of dollars.
<div class="code">761103R1-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1976 - 16:54 Minutes</div>
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they, you spend money for cigarette, for cinema, for restaurant, unnecessarily. We don't spend a farthing even, for all this purpose. Simply we take little rice, cāpāṭi, that's all. And still, you are culprit?
Hari-śauri: They, in the papers report that, that we spend very lavishly for the Deities, but for ourselves we eat only very simply.
Prabhupāda: So is it not credit? We spend for God. We are servant of God. We want to see God gorgeously situated, and for us we have no comforts, we don't care for any comfort. We simply spend minimum just to keep the body and soul together, that's all. This is our principle. We don't spend a farthing for our sense gratification. This should be noted down if some case is there, this should be presented. We don't go to restaurant, we don't go to cinema, we don't spend lavishly for dress or something else, no. Neither for furniture (laughter). Eh? If you sit down in a, a pad is that faulty?
Hari-śauri: Then when they go to any of our temples, they're amazed because we don't...
Prabhupāda: . . . brainwash.
Prabhupāda: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic, this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment. Either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that, we live very simply. After 15 days we shave, there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.
Hari-śauri: But how can they take it that what we're doing is a bad thing? If we're training people how to avoid intoxication, how to avoid illicit sex, abortion, contraception . . .
Hari-śauri: It's because of those...
Prabhupāda: They say: "Why you should avoid? This is life. Why you are brainwashing?" One boy was there in the beginning . . . what was his name? Ranchor, his name, I gave him. So his father argued, "Why you are avoiding illicit sex? This is life! Why you are afraid? I'll give you car. I'll give you girls. You enjoy. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy?" His father was arguing. I think everyone's father argues like that. Lord Ronaldsay, he said: "Why you are prohibiting this thing? This is our life. It is impossible."
Prabhupāda: At least I save doctors bill, (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little nim , give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make? As far as possible we do not go even to the doctor.
Hari-śauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians or . . .
Hari-śauri: Well, It's because of these things, that they're wondering well then, what do we do with the money?
Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.
Prabhupāda: We spend for Kṛṣṇa. Just like spending it, lakhs of rupees in Bombay for Kṛṣṇa.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Hari-śauri: Yeah, I agree.
Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask . . . the man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Prabhupāda: Every month.
Hari-śauri: Hmm. Then how to fight them?
Hari-śauri: We just have to show them how many books we are printing and everything, too.
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ''ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam'' ([[CC Antya 20.12|CC Antya 20.12]]), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them . . . give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying. Not directly. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Then how are we going to fare in this court case? 'Cause in these court cases it's a question of presenting one side against the . . .
Hari-śauri: It's not that we're letting the money sit and accumulating.
Prabhupāda: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can . . . but general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got . . . you are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question: "What kind of life you are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or a human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying, "After this body is finished, everything is finished." ''Bhāsmi bhūtasya dehasya punar agama'' . . . "The body will be burned into ashes, and where is life? Who is coming? Who is going?" They do not see the soul. Their medical science cannot find out where is soul. How do they say the . . . the soul means intelligence, they say. Otherwise, do they say the animal has no soul? Why do they say? What is the . . . what is . . . "Man has soul," they say: "The animal has no soul."
Prabhupāda: No. I am daily canvassing Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Print book! I don't want to keep the money in the bank, convert into the books and keep it in our..." I am asking.
Jagadīśa: That's what the Christians say. The Christians say.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: So what is the symptom?
Prabhupāda: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.
Hari-śauri: Well, they . . . 'cause he, man, has reason and logic.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say: "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say: "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says: "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."
Prabhupāda: That I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And they are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So, which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.
Hari-śauri: Intelligence is something you possess.
Hari-śauri: We simply have to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (break)
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Hari-śauri: (looking in dictionary) "Brainwashing: clearing the mind of established ideas by persistent suggestion and indoctrination."
Hari-śauri: ...present our whole program and...
Prabhupāda: That is . . . (chuckles) We are doing that. They, they are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.
Prabhupāda: Our only business is how to establish Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the only business. Our quarrel with our men: Why this temple is not clean? Why there is no flower in the Deity room? This is our fight. We have no other cause of fight. And why should we show magic? But these inquiries are going on—it is good—these rascals will be exposed.
Hari-śauri: Yep well, any form of education is indoctrination.
Hari-śauri: Hm. The people are so confused because they don't know...
Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.
Hari-śauri: What's bona fide and what is not now.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up, "I shall play all day." He likes that, to play, but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."
Prabhupāda: Neither they want. They are becoming skeptic.
Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country; he's indoctrinated.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play, but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated."
Prabhupāda: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non-bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non-bona fide.
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Hari-śauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, this animal life—eating, sleeping, mating—this is already there. No. We say: "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education . . . (indistinct) . . . how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: Simply ignorance.
Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...
Prabhupāda: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.
Hari-śauri: They don't have to be taught.
Hari-śauri: Hm.
Prabhupāda: It is not, there is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.
Prabhupāda: Every country. So why they do not take the Bhagavad-gītā as the standard?
Hari-śauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.
Hari-śauri: Eventually they will if we push it on. (pause)
Prabhupāda: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?
Prabhupāda: My mother was very much fond of pickles. After resting in the afternoon, she would take something very sour, pickle. We used to take with her also. (laughs) We were small children, my mother died when I was only 14 years old. (long pause) (aside) What else? All right bring it. (sounds of plates sliding)
Hari-śauri: Yes, hawker.
Hari-śauri: Potato pakorā.
Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection," cow protection. He has written one book to take care of the cows. So when old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all you give this book to your mother, because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that, "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature.
Prabhupāda: Oh, hm. [break] ...just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives and her son, stepson, he sold the whole house to a Marwari without the knowledge of this, my, she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago, not 100 years, about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi road, most important, that Mullik's house you have seen? That was one of the Mullik's house, for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then she appealed to the high-court that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge, then where shall I go?" The high-court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high-court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady. During her lifetime, you cannot take possession," the Marwari who purchased. So under that grandmother, we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwari school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwari school. So I learned this devanāgarī there, for a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school, get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhana(?) Marwari Vijnala(?), something like that, and later on they constructed huge building Visuddhana(?). Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwari school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.
Hari-śauri: No.
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That was little chance also, understanding Hindi. And I was maybe 7, 6 or 7 years old, that's all. Then somebody made at Saranpur. That was of course not in the school. Then in our college there were many up-country (?) class friends, Scottish Churches College. One of them was that Grnanatha (?), he came here, (Hindi).
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: He was bigger (?) in the police court M.A., B.A... Now, I repeatedly told him that "You stay here and write Hindi."
Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?
Prabhupāda: He stayed for one week or 15 days. (Hindi)
Devotee (3): (Hindi)
Devotee (4): L-A-R-Y-N-X. Cavity with enclosing muscles and mucus membrane behind and communicating with nose, mouth and larynx.
Prabhupāda: Hm? Here this side, this space some connection, when it is affected that is called laryngitis.
Hari-śauri: Hm.
Prabhupāda: I know some of the medical terms.
Devotee (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Now this disease is called laryngitis.
Devotee (1): Yeah.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Śarīraṁ vyādhi-mandiram. It is a temple of disease. The temple of di..., temple of miseries. Not only disease, there are so many other things. Huh? Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ [[BG 2.14]] , simply giving trouble. Śarīra-bandha, asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ [[BG 2.14]] . Deha, deha means kleśada, kleśada troublesome. They do not know this science. And they do not know how to get out of this body, there is no science. This is the only science Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They do not know this science, they do not know what is the real position, how troubles come, how we are suffering. Nothing of the sort. And our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is simply dealing with this, how to get out of this entanglement of the body. That is the only problem. And the materialistic person, they do not think it as a problem. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati [[BG 2.14]] . We are dealing with the real problems, and others they do not know what is the problems, what to speak of dealing with them. Completely in ignorance, how the body is changing, why there are different forms of life, wherefrom they are coming. They do not deal with these things.
Hari-śauri: Everybody thinks their body is for enjoying this. They think it's the source of pleasure.
Prabhupāda: That enjoyment that God's children? They also thought it is enjoyment, you see? The hippies are thinking, enjoying. And others little polished way. They are also the same, in a polished way, by dressing nicely. Eh? Everyone is in ignorance, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Find out this verse.
Prabhupāda: Seventh, yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [[BG 7.14]] .
Devotee (1): See if it's 7, fifteenth or fourteenth. (pause)
Prabhupāda: About the gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, sleeping, and eating, and sense enjoyment conquered. So no sleeping, no eating and no sense gratification, that is perfection. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau. Hm.
Hari-śauri:
<div class="conv_verse">
tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair<br />
ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat<br />
mohitaṁ nābhijānāti<br />
mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam<br />
[[BG 7.13]]
</div>
"Deluded by the three modes (goodness, passion, and ignorance), the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible."
Prabhupāda: Here is the disease, material disease. They are being carried away by the three modes of material nature. Hm? It is explained further that puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte... [[BG 13.22]]. Hm.
Prabhupāda: Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Hm? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi [[BG 13.22]] . So, this is a big purport about this? How big...?
Hari-śauri: About one page. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ?
Prabhupāda: Hm. Read it.
<PS:Purport> Hari-śauri: The whole world is enchanted by three modes of material nature. Those who are bewildered by these three modes cannot understand that transcendental to this material nature is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. In this material world everyone is under the influence of these three guṇas and is thus bewildered.
By nature living entities have particular types of body and particular types of psychic and biological activities accordingly. There are four classes of men functioning in the three material modes of nature. Those who are purely in the mode of goodness are called brāhmaṇas. Those who are purely in the mode of passion are called kṣatriyas. Those who are in the modes of both passion and ignorance are called vaiśyas. Those who are completely in ignorance are called śūdras. And those who are less than that are animals or animal life. However, these designations are not permanent. I may either be a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or whatever—in any case, this life is temporary. But although life is temporary and we do not know what we are going to be in the next life, still, by the spell of this illusory energy, we consider ourselves in the light of this bodily conception of life, and we thus think that we are American, Indian, Russian or brāhmaṇa, Hindu, Muslim, etc. And if we become entangled with the modes of material nature, then we forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is behind all these modes. So Lord Kṛṣṇa says that men, deluded by these three modes of nature, do not understand that behind the material background is the Supreme Godhead.
There are many different kinds of living entities—human beings, demigods, animals, etc.—and each and every one of them is under the influence of material nature, and all of them have forgotten the transcendent Personality of Godhead. Those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, and even those who are in the mode of goodness, cannot go beyond the impersonal Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth. They are bewildered before the Supreme Lord in His personal feature, which possesses all beauty, opulence, knowledge, strength, fame and renunciation. When even those who are in goodness cannot understand, what hope is there for those in passion and ignorance? Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transcendental to all these three modes of material nature, and those who are truly established in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are actually liberated.
Prabhupāda: This is explanation of that?
Devotee: Hm.
Prabhupāda: I don't think in any other edition such explanation is there. Dr. Radhakrishnan, other this Dada (?) Krishna. Radhakrishnan and Dada Krishna. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam. Hm. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, especially the communist countries. Completely in ignorance. (Sanskrit) They're thinking that by external adjustment, by following the Marxist theory or Lenin's theory and killing the capitalists, inventing some bogus ways of happiness... (pause) You have been in Moscow?
Haṁsadūta: Hm, several times.
Prabhupāda: Hm. I think they are poor. Is it not?
Haṁsadūta: Very poor.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Haṁsadūta: Big country, very poor.
Hari-śauri: Moscow.
Haṁsadūta: In that city, one has to wait for years in order to get an apartment.
Prabhupāda: Ācchā?
Haṁsadūta: Yes, Anatol was telling me, that boy Ānanda-śānti. His whole family was living in that..., but you did not see his room. His room is very small, maybe two times the size of your kitchen and whole family was living in that. Mother, grandmother, father, him, and when Mandākinī went there she was also living there.
Prabhupāda: Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called ''Kāma-śāstra''. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year . . . 1940s maybe, so one young woman was travelling, and another young man was travelling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hari-śauri: Pseudo-intellectuals.
Haṁsadūta: Very small.
Prabhupāda: Huh.
Prabhupāda: Pigeonhole.
Hari-śauri: Pseudo-intellectuals. Shameless.
Haṁsadūta: Pigeonhole, really pigeonhole.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Young boy, young girl, they began to discuss on sex openly as scientific.
Prabhupāda: So why this is?
Hari-śauri: What is this scientific? (laughs)
Haṁsadūta: Only one room. Because there is no, economically they're...
Prabhupāda: Scientific means after discussing for some time you propose that, "Let us enjoy sex." That's all. It is common thing in your country—unknown girl, unknown boy, and talk for some time, "Let us go to some restaurant," and then talk more intimately, and then sex.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: That's the whole social system.
Haṁsadūta: Not making progress. The situation is very bad. And all the buildings if you noticed, they were very old.
Prabhupāda: "Would you like to sex?" And who is the young man, young . . . who'll deny it? I know this. During ball dance they embrace one another, another's wife, another's husband, and in ball dance . . . or there are side rooms. Naturally they'll feel sex, and they go to the side room and discuss. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Yes I have already told...
Devotee: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: Did you notice? They were built in the time of Stalin.
Hari-śauri: The only reason they go to a dance is to pick up some woman for sex life. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Not Stalin.
Haṁsadūta: Or in the years before, sorry.
Prabhupāda: That is during the Czar. They could not build any.
Haṁsadūta: That university, very old, that university and all the big buildings, very old. And like you say there is no taxi.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Haṁsadūta: No food, the women are working like...
Hari-śauri: Most of my friends used to go out specifically to find some woman to have sex.
Prabhupāda: Sweeper.
Haṁsadūta: Sweeper, all fat...
Prabhupāda: Why they're fat?
Haṁsadūta: Just eating potatoes and and...
Prabhupāda: Meat.
Haṁsadūta: Meat, pork meat, pig's meat.
Prabhupāda: Very miserable condition.
Haṁsadūta: Oh yeah.
Prabhupāda: And advertising, communists are so rich, so happy.
Haṁsadūta: I know, everything, all their literature concerns itself with struggling. Struggling against capitalists, struggling to...
Prabhupāda: And mass of people they are very morose, unhappy.
Haṁsadūta: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In the street you see there is no happiness in their face.
Haṁsadūta: Silent.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Means terrorism, if they do anything against, then (snaps fingers) finished.
Hari-śauri: Subdued.
Prabhupāda: Very miserable.
Haṁsadūta: All these communist countries are like that. I was in many of these countries, people are all depressed.
Prabhupāda: There is no taxi. You cannot get taxi on call. And the taxi drivers, they want something more.
Haṁsadūta: Yes, they...
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Haṁsadūta: They do that.
Prabhupāda: Very bad country, the communist country.
Haṁsadūta: I was asking this boy, that was here a few days ago from South India, from Kerala, he was in Russia. I asked him. "What did you eat there?" What did you, you stayed for one year?
Prabhupāda: He must be eating meat.
Haṁsadūta: No, he said, "I was able to get frozen vegetables from the south of Russia. They freeze it and then they sell it," he said, "but it is very expensive, very costly." He was getting frozen.
Prabhupāda: That is also nasty. Frozen means nasty. I never take frozen. In the beginning I thought, "Oh, it is very nice, you can get fresh vegetable." But they are not at all fresh.
Haṁsadūta: No.
Prabhupāda: All rotten, rather the same vegetable, as we have got in India practice, we dry it and keep it. That is tasteful. In season time—suppose this season there is huge quantity of vegetable—so here the system is they cut into pieces during the season and dry it in the sun and keep it. And during out of season it is soaked in water, it revives the old taste, then you can cook. (Hindi or Bengali)
Devotee (1): Tastes as though it is different. The fresh vegetable the taste is very good.
Prabhupāda: Fresh vegetable must be, but still there is some taste. But this frozen it has no taste.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Even they have, Indians those who are fish eaters, they keep this dry fish.
Haṁsadūta: Yeah, dried fish.
Prabhupāda: They-fresh fish—they smear with turmeric and salt and keep it in the sunshine and they dry it. And of course this fish it has no, what is it taste. (laughter) But they keep it. (aside) Bring me little water. (Bengali and Hindi) This I want to introduce, let them be satisfied whatever they can produce themselves locally. What is that, little cloth, little food? Any man can produce these things. There is no difficulty at all. They must agree to this simple life. Otherwise, everywhere you can produce your own food and cloth and cottage. If possible you can construct big buildings. There is no need. And they should be satisfied, happy with Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful. This I want to introduce now, anywhere. And it is practical. It is not something bogus. It is... We have already experimented. By God's grace we can produce everything from the lands, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī? You can get everything. If they are satisfied with this simple life, then they save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness and happy life. In India they don't require even cottage. One katiya (?) is sufficient. Keeping in one place and lay down. Eight months, at least six months, it is very nice. At night, even in daytime it is very hot, at night it is cool. So you have got very good sleep, soothing, then you become refreshed in the morning. If you have got good sleep at night, then you become refreshed, your health is regained. Hm? If I (indistinct), take morning snāna and cāpāṭi. During very hot season they don't take even cāpāṭi. They take some fruits, guava and this... What is called that? (Hindi)
Devotee (2): That? Melon.
Prabhupāda: Melon, yes. During hot season you get watermelon, this other melon.
Hari-śauri: Honeydew melon.
Prabhupāda: Honeydew melon, oh very nice. In the upcountries still in the village during daytime they don't eat. During daytime they take some fruits and at night when it is cool, the cool ah, refreshing air, they make some cāpāṭi. One time, is it not?
Devotee (2): (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Eh, (Hindi) In that night because in daytime it is so hot, it is embarrassing to cook and to digest also. Better take food, ah, fruit, this melon, and at night they take 3 or 4 cāpāṭis according to the... And good sleep. Very happy life it was, all over India. There was no question of poverty. People did not know what is poverty and now it is poverty. They do not get even sufficient food.
Hari-śauri: Industrialization.
Prabhupāda: Ugra-karma. I don't like industrialism.
761103R1-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1976 - 16:54 Minutes
Prabhupāda: . . . brainwash.
Hari-śauri: But how can they take it that what we're doing is a bad thing? If we're training people how to avoid intoxication, how to avoid illicit sex, abortion, contraception . . .
Prabhupāda: They say: "Why you should avoid? This is life. Why you are brainwashing?" One boy was there in the beginning . . . what was his name? Ranchor, his name, I gave him. So his father argued, "Why you are avoiding illicit sex? This is life! Why you are afraid? I'll give you car. I'll give you girls. You enjoy. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy?" His father was arguing. I think everyone's father argues like that. Lord Ronaldsay, he said: "Why you are prohibiting this thing? This is our life. It is impossible."
Hari-śauri: The thing is in society still, even now, there are people who abstain from it. There are vegetarians or . . .
Prabhupāda: There may be very few, one or two. That is insignificant. One million, two person, he is. At least especially in your country.
Hari-śauri: The thing is that they don't claim that they are brainwashed. So we're a society where we're doing all these things, combinedly.
Prabhupāda: "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." If the majority are fools and rascal, if you say something sane, then they'll ask . . . the man, the sane man, he is insane. He's crazy.
Hari-śauri: Hmm. Then how to fight them?
Prabhupāda: That is the position. The only means is that in spite of all opposition you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That will cleanse. Otherwise there is no other way. Argument and logic, they have no brain to understand. It requires this transcendental method, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is wanted. You have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and let them . . . give the chance to hear. Then they will be able to catch it, what we are saying. Not directly. It is not possible.
Hari-śauri: Then how are we going to fare in this court case? 'Cause in these court cases it's a question of presenting one side against the . . .
Prabhupāda: No, philosophy is there. Court case means there is philosophy, there is logic. So for that we have got so many books. We can . . . but general mass of people, chanting. When there is court case we are prepared to defend. We have got . . . you are not fools. We can talk that what is the aim of life. They cannot say anything. The transmigration of the soul, the aim of life which we are discussing in our book, that's fact. How he can deny the transmigration of the soul from one body to another? And if that is accepted, the whole problem is solved. He does not know what kind of life he is going to get. Therefore they do not accept this philosophy. If once accepted, then next question: "What kind of life you are going to get, either to become a tree or a dog or a human being?" What arrangement you have done that you will get next life human being? Then the pious and impious activities comes one after another. The basic principle they are denying, "After this body is finished, everything is finished." Bhāsmi bhūtasya dehasya punar agama . . . "The body will be burned into ashes, and where is life? Who is coming? Who is going?" They do not see the soul. Their medical science cannot find out where is soul. How do they say the . . . the soul means intelligence, they say. Otherwise, do they say the animal has no soul? Why do they say? What is the . . . what is . . . "Man has soul," they say: "The animal has no soul."
Jagadīśa: That's what the Christians say. The Christians say.
Prabhupāda: So what is the symptom?
Hari-śauri: Well, they . . . 'cause he, man, has reason and logic.
Prabhupāda: That means reason and logic is soul. That is their idea. That is not soul. Intelligence, when I say: "You have got intelligence," it does not mean you are intelligence. "You have got intelligence," we say like that. We never say: "You are intelligence." So intelligence is not soul. The rascals, they do not know. Mistake. Nobody says: "You are intelligence." They say, "You are intelligent."
Hari-śauri: Intelligence is something you possess.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (someone enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So? (break)
Hari-śauri: (looking in dictionary) "Brainwashing: clearing the mind of established ideas by persistent suggestion and indoctrination."
Prabhupāda: That is . . . (chuckles) We are doing that. They, they are under the impression, "Work hard, earn money and enjoy life." We say, "No. Don't work hard for sense gratification but work hard for self-realization." Indoctrine.
Hari-śauri: Yep well, any form of education is indoctrination.
Prabhupāda: Indoctrinization. Yes. Any kind of education is.
Hari-śauri: Whatever you teach someone, you teach according to whatever you see as the correct value.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The child goes to the school. His brain is packed up, "I shall play all day." He likes that, to play, but it is indoctrinization that "No, you should read. You must become graduate."
Hari-śauri: Yes. And whatever country he's born in, he has to learn the culture of that country; he's indoctrinated.
Prabhupāda: Apart from that, education is required. The child wants to play, but we have to educate him that "No, play is not all. You have to be educated."
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, this animal life—eating, sleeping, mating—this is already there. No. We say: "Not only this, you have to realize God." This kind of brainwash is required. If we do not understand God, then what is the difference between you and dog? He knows how to eat, how to sleep. He doesn't require any high education . . . (indistinct) . . . how to eat. Everyone knows how to eat, how to use sex. Nobody requires any university education.
Hari-śauri: Simply ignorance.
Prabhupāda: When the animal enjoy sex, they know which part of the body has to be used.
Hari-śauri: They don't have to be taught.
Prabhupāda: It is not, there is no need of education. He knows it. And these rascals, they are presenting Freud's philosophy, sex. Just see how they are wasting time.
Hari-śauri: They have so many books now on so-called sex education, so many of them.
Prabhupāda: Simply wasting time. There is a story about this. One man was canvassing, hawking. Hawker?
Hari-śauri: Yes, hawker.
Prabhupāda: So he was, "Here is a book of cow protection," cow protection. He has written one book to take care of the cows. So when old man called him, "What you are selling?" Now, "I am selling this book." "What is that book?" "Maintaining the cow." So, "Why you are selling? First of all you give this book to your mother, because you are no better than cow, so she will learn how to give you protection." That means he wanted to impress upon him that, "Cow protection doesn't require any education. You have written a book? So you are such a rascal, cow intelligence. Better give this book to your mother. She will maintain you. Don't sell it. Everyone knows how to give cow protection." So similarly, this sex literature, there is no need of sex literature.
Hari-śauri: No.
Prabhupāda: Sex literature is there in Sanskrit also. That is how to restrict sex. For what purpose one should indulge in sex, that is called Kāma-śāstra. I have seen this Freud philosophy became so prominent that sometimes in the year . . . 1940s maybe, so one young woman was travelling, and another young man was travelling. So they began to discuss about sex very openly. And both of them unknown. Still, they engaged themselves in discussing the sex literature, without any shame.
Hari-śauri: Pseudo-intellectuals.
Prabhupāda: Huh.
Hari-śauri: Pseudo-intellectuals. Shameless.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Young boy, young girl, they began to discuss on sex openly as scientific.
Hari-śauri: What is this scientific? (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Scientific means after discussing for some time you propose that, "Let us enjoy sex." That's all. It is common thing in your country—unknown girl, unknown boy, and talk for some time, "Let us go to some restaurant," and then talk more intimately, and then sex.
Hari-śauri: That's the whole social system.
Prabhupāda: "Would you like to sex?" And who is the young man, young . . . who'll deny it? I know this. During ball dance they embrace one another, another's wife, another's husband, and in ball dance . . . or there are side rooms. Naturally they'll feel sex, and they go to the side room and discuss. Is it not?
Devotee: Yes.
Hari-śauri: The only reason they go to a dance is to pick up some woman for sex life. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: Most of my friends used to go out specifically to find some woman to have sex.
