760814 - Conversation C - Bombay
Guest (Indian man): ...(indistinct) my wife (indistinct). Maybe [break]
Prabhupāda: ...enter the Jagannātha temple, He immediately fainted. "So, here is My Lord, Kṛṣṇa." When the artist will see, "What He has seen? Old figure, not very beautiful, and this man has fainted." Actually there is nothing so extraordinary that one should faint but we see practically that Caitanya Mahāprabhu fainted, "Here is My Lord." It is the question of vision. Premāñjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38] . [At this point a tik-tik lizard makes his sound] It is also confirmed. One, that is called (indistinct), one who is trained up to see God, he can see. (indistinct) Premāñjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena. Just like sometimes we cannot see properly if there is, what is called...
Guest: Cataract.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That ointment.
Guest: Kajjal.
Prabhupāda: Kajjal we say, English what do you say? (indistinct-back and forth over the English) Premāñjana-cchur..., añjana means that.
Vasughoṣa: Añjana, salve, salve.
Prabhupāda: There is English proper word.
Vasughoṣa: "Tinge the eyes with the salve of love."
Prabhupāda: Salve, yes. That is the word, salve. The salve of love. One who has painted the eyes with salve of love, he gets it.
Guest (1) (Indian man): But sir, there will only be a few who can reach that stage, but the down-trodden...
Prabhupāda: That's a fact,
manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścid māṁ vetthi tattvataḥ
BG 7.3
You cannot make such person by showing film. It is not possible.
Guest (1): Well, that I agree. It is not possible to make men devotees or religious by showing films. But at least those who cannot read our books, to whom individually we cannot reach in spite of our...
Prabhupāda: But they know, they hear. They hear. There are different processes. They know Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). Just like in India the Janmāṣṭamī is coming, I think cent percent houses will observe Janmāṣṭamī. There is no doubt about it. Either he's a devotee of Kṛṣṇa or not, even some Muhammadans are there. I know that.
Guest (1): Yes, Parsees, Muhammadans, (indistinct)...
Prabhupāda: They observe.
Guest (1): They observe it.
Prabhupāda: So to some extent they have got some affection for Kṛṣṇa but not to that extent. They, there maybe one man may seeing Kṛṣṇa's pastimes.
Yaśomatīnandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's pastimes. Philosophy is there but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Kṛṣṇa People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Kṛṣṇa consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.
Guest (1): For the students it is good idea.
Yaśomatīnandana: For everyone. I mean...
Prabhupāda: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.
Guest (1): They will misinterpret the whole thing. They will misrepresent, the danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps, I wouldn't say better. Perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.
Guest (2): But not in the way that the films are made.
Guest (1): No, that is not say. I don't want. I could produce...
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa consciousness is developed when one practices according to the prescribed method,
tapasā brahmacaryena
śamena ca damena ca
tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ
yamena niyamena vā
SB 6.1.13
These are the process, tapasya, brahmacaryena. So it is very difficult for the common man to undergo tapasya. Little tapasya we have introduced, no illicit sex, no meat eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That is also become very difficult nowadays.
Guest (3): But is it not possible that we (indistinct) name of society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then they will be attracted more and more and they will...
Prabhupāda: When you want to attract people you have to show that you (indistinct).
Guest (4): There are good persons who...
Prabhupāda: That good person is very, very rare. I... [break] ...education point of view.
Guest: Yes sir.
Prabhupāda: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacārī. That training (indistinct). Then they are trained as gṛhastha, then vānaprastha, and ultimately sannyāsa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced, therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is essential to make them Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Guest (5): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... [break]
Prabhupāda: ...guru.
Guest (5): Yes, sir.
Prabhupāda: If one goes in the village without any dress, without any, if he plays the part of Kṛṣṇa's and somebody plays the part of Rādhārāṇī, thousands of people will come. There is no need of film. Yatra- party.
Guest (4): Yatra- party, sir, in the films we do those...
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Kṛṣṇa pastimes, still in India...
Guest (4): It is there, sir, so what my submission was that what we do as film producers and in this line of business, that we do it more on commercial basis. Gimmicks are there, castings are there, but then it is not so much educative. What your Prabhupāda wants to convey. If, as a member of...
Prabhupāda: Education you cannot give. Education means it is practical practice. But to show something, that you can attract even without film. The yatra- party can.
Guest (5): Yatra- party, sir, here again the problem is India's a vast country and for that purpose if you take the whole world as a place, how many yatra- parties can you...
Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, that even if you attract better crowd, what will be the benefits? Unless, because unless you come to the point of practicing, there is no profit. Who will be attracted to practice Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Nobody is... We are getting practical experience.
Yaśomatīnandana: In other words just being attracted to philosophy is not sufficient. There has to be... Let them become a devotee. (indistinct remarks)
Prabhupāda: Now just like we are attempting—not only here, everywhere—we have got nice buildings, and (indistinct) and Bombay we have constructed such big, big house so we are asking, at least those who are learned people, that if they retire, come here and practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No, nobody's prepared to practice. And this is a thing, without practice you cannot realize.
Guest (4): That is why sir, we don't going outside.
Prabhupāda: They...
Guest (4): Whole thing if we make it...
Prabhupāda: Just like, practice is also not very difficult. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru BG 18.65 . So if you daily come to the temple, see the Deity, he'll have some impression and he can think of Kṛṣṇa, how He is playing flute, how He is nicely dressed, how Rādhārāṇī is standing (indistinct). Then man-manā, he can think of Kṛṣṇa very easily. So man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, and as soon as you think of Kṛṣṇa, you become a devotee. Because a businessman will not spare so much time thinking (of) Kṛṣṇa, how He is playing flute. He has no business. Without being bhakta, nobody will be interested to meditate on Kṛṣṇa, how He's standing, how He's playing flute. This is bhakta's business. So anyone who is planning some trying(?) to think of Kṛṣṇa, that means automatically he becomes bhakta, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yājī, then naturally if he becomes bhakta, naturally then why not offer to Kṛṣṇa something? Eh? Naturally. Give Him some fruits, some flower, some grains. Then Kṛṣṇa is accepting them, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati BG 18.65 . So to think of Kṛṣṇa, to become a devotee and to offer Him something, patraṁ puṣpaṁ, and offer Him obeisances, these things are development of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. And the result is, find out this verse, man-manā. Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ BG 18.65 , by simply executing these four principles, Kṛṣṇa assures that you will come, asaṁśayaḥ, without any doubt.
Guest (4): Without (indistinct).
Yaśomatīnandana:
man-manā bhava mad-bhakto
mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru
mām evaiṣyasi satyaṁ te
pratijāne priyo 'si me
BG 18.65
Guests: (indistinct—all talking together)
Guest (5): ...distorting the life of Kṛṣṇa. Your divine grace the film producers are distorting all our mythological...
Prabhupāda: But as soon as you say "mythology," there is no Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (5): Don't say "mythology," I mean to say, my meaning was that they are distorting all our religious... They are making films, putting something, unusual things and cheap things. We can reform them and bring...
Prabhupāda: No, unless (indistinct) it will not to the art.
Guest (5): You can bring these (indistinct) into the art.
Prabhupāda: No, that you can use your art.
Guest (5): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just to give some incentive but the thing is unless we practice...
Guest (5): That is the most important. Practice is of... That is the essence. Of course, that is the essence but to bring to the essence something should be (indistinct) people to the right path.
Prabhupāda: It can be a part of the propaganda.
Guest (5): Yes, because in India even this...
Prabhupāda: But for that part of propaganda, the energy will be required (indistinct). Money energy. Who can spare good money energy? Just like Kṛṣṇa is lifting the..., you'll show in the picture. You can inform also about that lifting by talking with him.
Guest (6): No, that is no sir. What my suggestion was that we are conveying whatever is there in Bhagavad-gītā, whatever, whatever one subject we take. While we are discussing the subject... After all, we are also all human beings...
Prabhupāda: I have already said that you can take it as part.
Guest (6): Same time we give some flashbacks and in with cluded(?).
Prabhupāda: See the print, don't smoke, no vegetable.
Guest (6): No sir, in the cinema houses they don't smoke.
Prabhupāda: No, that is another thing but...
Guest (6): Of course, by force it has been in...
Guest (5): But even you can request also.
Guest (4): We can do. I mean that is not a stage by stage... That stage can be reached, sir. They will feel that they will be ashamed to smoke when such a spiritual thing is being shown to them.
Guest (6): Creating an atmosphere.
Guest (4): Gradually it can... It is not a thing of a day. It will take years to come. We will have to go and my point was that...
Prabhupāda: But here there is no question of begin. Hare Kṛṣṇa speculation...
Guest (6): In the midst of film you can some Hare Kṛṣṇa (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Immediately.
Guest (4): But we are... Suppose I am getting, sir as you say...
Prabhupāda: Begins. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam CC Madhya 19.167 , if there is any other motive, then immediately there is no (indistinct).
anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ
jñāna-karmādy anāvṛtam
ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-
śīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā
[Brs. 1.1.11]
Maybe little bhakti touch but uttama-bhakti, the definition is anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam CC Madhya 19.167 . So it is very difficult for the actors and actresses to give up the commercial life. Anyā..., that is anyābhilāṣ, that by playing like this, I'll be popular, I'll get money, this is anyābhilāṣ. So to make it zero is very difficult. bhakti.
Guest (6): No (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: Ah. But everything can be dovetailed, nirbandhe kṛṣṇa sambandhe yukta-vairāgyam ucyate. Just like our Sītā-Rāma(?), she wants to do some display to help Kṛṣṇa movement. That is very good.
Guest (7): She wanted to make the money.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (7): She wanted to make the money in this country. She would have the money, the richest artist in this country.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (7): But of course she is dedicated, as you say, without any motivation and even...
Prabhupāda: Money, money-making isn't made, money comes.
Guest (7): She has not commercialized...
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no commercialization. Kṛṣṇa says that yad karoṣi yaj-juhoṣi yad aśnāsi yat tapasya kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam BG 9.27 . To earn money, it is not bad, but if it is given to Kṛṣṇa then it is bhakti.
Guest (7): That is?
Prabhupāda: Bhakti.
Guest (7): Very well, she has done.
Prabhupāda: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Kṛṣṇa's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Kṛṣṇa is saying, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati BG 9.26 . Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Kṛṣṇa is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Kṛṣṇa accepts it. So that does not mean that I have got money, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with little flower, so give little flower to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy this money for my sense gratification. (chuckles) That is cheating. That is cheating. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam, give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. That is bhakti, it doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Kṛṣṇa is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this, for this purpose. They may say that Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ BG 9.26 , why you are spending so much money? The idea is that when there is money, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ toyaṁ, that is cheating. Kṛṣṇa knows it. If you have got money, then you must spend—a gorgeous temple for Kṛṣṇa. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use and Kṛṣṇa may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Kṛṣṇa. So Bombay is so rich, therefore you are collecting. Spend for this temple, spend for this temple. Otherwise it will be spent for other purposes. Money will be spent, it will not stay. Samdimite varuṅkala vinaśiniyate sati (?), money will not stay. At least at the time of my death money will remain where it is, I (indistinct). So money, so long is in my hands, let it spend for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. It will be spent. How we are going to separate it? There is no excuse. So long it is in my possession, let it be spent for Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. Whatever I know.... We are not of that pleasure, we say, "Don't touch money." No, not only touch, we can consume any amount of money. Bring it and we spend for Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposal. We are not that so-called renouncer that as soon as there is money my face becomes deformed, my hands go this way. No, we capture immediately and spend it (indistinct) for Kṛṣṇa. Lakṣmī, Lakṣmī is to be engaged in the service of Nārāyaṇa. Just like Sītā-devi, Lakṣmī she is meant for serving Nārāyaṇa, Rāmacandra. Rāvaṇa thought that "Take away the Lakṣmī from Rāma." He became vanquished, finished. He could not keep Lakṣmī but he became vanquished because she (he) wanted to enjoy Lakṣmī without Rāma. But Lakṣmī cannot stay without Rāma, Nārāyaṇa. That is false attempt. So he became vanquished, with money, with family, everything, personal, everything. So if we want to keep Lakṣmī without Nārāyaṇa, then it will not be very good. Lakṣmī keep with Nārāyaṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, there will be... (end)