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760628 - Conversation C - New Vrindaban, USA

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His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760628BG-NEW VRINDAVAN - June 28, 1976 - 73.22 Minutes

(Garden Conversation, Bhagavad-gita 16.17-19)

Prabhupāda: So read something.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Chapter Sixteen, text number seventeen.

ātma-sambhāvitāḥ stabdhā
yajante nāma-yajñais te
(BG 16.17)

Translation: "Self-complacent and always impudent, deluded by wealth and false prestige, they sometimes perform sacrifices in name only, without following any rules or regulations."

Prabhupāda: Modern yogic society. "Transcendental Meditation." Whatever nonsense they like, they do. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that yogīs should sit down in a secluded, sacred place, and they are seeking after America's big, big cities. Hmm? They find out yogic class in America's big, big cities, hotels. This is their program. The prescription is that one should sit down in a solitary, sacred place, alone, and these rascals are holding class. All smokers, drunkard, woman-hunters, (laughs) they are yogīs. Hmm? What do you think? Is it all right? This is going on. And they are accepting, "Yogī this," "Yogī that." This is going on. In India they cannot find out because people are not so fool as yet that in big, big cities, in a big, big hotel, "yoga practice." India, although so fallen, they will not accept. They will at once detect, "Here is a rascal." But here, their dhana-māna, their qualification . . . they have got money. So whatever they accept, that is all right, because they have got money. No other qualification required. They have money; they can pay. That's all. You read that, dhana-māna . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ātma-sambhāvitāḥ stabdhā dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ.

Prabhupāda: What are the word meanings?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ātma-sambhāvitāḥ—self-complacent.

Prabhupāda: Whatever they are thinking, it is all right. That's all. They are not going to hear any authority. Whatever they think, that is final. That's all. Why?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Stabdhāḥ—impudent.

Prabhupāda: No obedience to authority. Impudent. And?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dhana-māna.

Prabhupāda: Dhana-māna. Because they have got money, whatever they think, that's all right. And their gurus also will say, "Yes, it is all right." If the guru says that "It is not all right," then nobody will come to him. He has to say, "It is all right," because he's also after money and woman. That's all. He does not come here to teach something. This is going on. Therefore they come in so many numbers. They have now taken a good field. And in America you go, you say any nonsense, and they will accept, and pay money for that. From the very beginning it is going on. Now, because it is going on like that, we are also counted amongst them. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is the difficulty. They are also taking this movement, "Oh, these boys are chanting and dancing. This is also another sentiment, another edition of hippie movement." There is a, I think, Gresham's Theory: "Bad money drives away good money." You know this?

Devotee: Yes. Economics.

Prabhupāda: This is a economic theory. "Bad money drives away good money." Because nowadays bad money, that paper money, is going on, that gold coins no more in existence. Formerly we have seen gold coins in our childhood. You have not seen any. We have seen.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Collectors' items.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Collectors' items.

Prabhupāda: Collectors?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Only someone may have one just as a collection. You can't get them.

Prabhupāda: Formerly in the currency, when you go to take some exchange, it was the etiquette of the teller to ask you, "What you want? Silver money, gold money or paper money?" It was their duty. If you say, "I want gold money," they will pay in gold money. Not only it is written in the paper, "I promise to pay," but the promise was kept. If he wants, "Give me payment in gold," they will pay. And now, to keep gold, hoarding gold, is illegal. So you cannot ask. This is going on. Legalized cheating. You have to accept this paper money. That's all. Don't ask for gold. And there is no honesty at all. I can take paper money for my convenience' sake, but how you can force me to take paper money? That is not honesty. So dishonesty begins from the government. You cannot keep gold. If you have kept gold, there will be searching, and if it is found that you have gold, you'll be punished. In India it is now being done. There is no freedom even at your home, in your private life. Formerly, any common man could keep gold according to his desire. There was no such thing. Sometimes he would hide it even within the ground, because there was no bank. At least in India this was the practice. If you have got some gold, you keep it somewhere confidential within the ground, so that it may not be stolen. So everyone should have right to keep his money as he likes. Why government should interfere? Therefore you see the Bhāgavatam, rājanya-dasyu-dharmaḥ. The government men will be like rogues and thieves. By law they will take away. It is now going on in India. I think here it is also? You cannot keep gold. Why I cannot keep gold? If I have secured gold, I can keep it. I want gold. You write, "I promise to pay," so there must be gold coins. I must have. So many difficulties will come in the kingdom of māyā gradually. It is already come. The eight items . . . what are those items?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Twelfth Canto?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Duration of life, mercifulness . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prāyeṇālpāyuṣaḥ sabhya kalāv asmin yuge janāḥ mandāḥ sumanda-matayo . . . (SB 1.1.10).

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not.

Rādhā-vallabha: Symptoms of the age of Kali?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Duration of life is decreased. If one is twenty years old, he will be a grand old man.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. That is coming.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bodily strength decreases. Then smṛti, intelligence . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Memory is decreasing.

Prabhupāda: Dayā, dharma, religious principles—everything will be reduced. And the government men, instead of giving you protection, they will act like thieves and rogues. You cannot say anything. Very, very precarious condition, all freedom lost. In Russia, all freedom lost. They have no freedom. The professor giving that testimonial, and "Don't publish it." They are appreciating this book, but they cannot say, "That is good book." Just see what kind of freedom is there. A nice book, I appreciate; I cannot give in writing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The American government would say, "How can you say that there's no freedom when the First Amendment of the United States Constitution says that there is freedom of religion? One can make any religion he likes, and follow."

Prabhupāda: Now they can amend. By simply by writing by the government men, that's all, it becomes a law. There is no question of its validity, but because it is spoken by government, therefore the . . . in other words, the government men should be so honest and so elevated that actually their words should be law. But this is democracy. Any nonsense can take vote and go to the government, and then whatever he will say, that will be law. Who cares that he's a rascal? Somehow or other he has gotten vote and he's in a position. Who is considering that? And in the Vedic age only the first-class brāhmaṇas and sages, they would . . . Manu-saṁhitā, that is law, not that any rascal goes into the legislative assembly and passes some law. Of course, whatever government says, that is law, but what is the position of the government now? And similarly everything. A yogī is actually worshipable. But what are these yogīs, rascals? So these are asuric. And it is said . . . what is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Dhana means money. So if you have got money, then everyone will respect you. Personally you may be less than a dog, but because you have got money, people will respect you. Is it not? (laughs) In England I was guest in John Lennon's house. He has taken a photograph, naked. And he's a big man. He gives opinion to the newspaper reporter. People go there to take his opinion about some serious subject, and he speaks, and the man is so shameless that he is standing naked, and he's important man—because he has got money. Especially in the Western countries this is very prominent: if you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore they are after money only, that "If some way or other, if I get money, then I get everything. I get respect, I get honor. I get everything. Bring money somehow or other." This is the attempt. Therefore there is so much hard struggle. From early in the morning, four o'clock, they are going to the office to get money. To get more money, more money, that is the Western civilization. Now in India they have also learned. And our philosophy is, "Don't try to get money." Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta. "You should simply engage your life for advancing your Kṛṣṇa consciousness." So who will hear us? We say, "There is no need of working so hard for money." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This kind of working hard is done by the hogs and dogs, so why a human being should work so hard simply to get the necessities of life? (break) This association, this meeting, this talking, is meant for the human body; it is not for the cats and dogs. This is human civilization. Naimiṣāraṇya meeting going on, all the big, big learned brāhmaṇas, sages, they are talking how to do welfare activities to the human society. What is this civilization? Simply money, money, money, money, money. And as soon as you get money, then you begin all nonsense—illicit sex, meat-eating, drinking, gambling. What you will do with the money? You do not know how to spend it. Hmm. Dhana-māna-madānvitāḥ.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Thinking themselves all in all, not caring for any authority or scripture, the demoniac sometimes perform so-called religious or sacrificial rites. And since they do not believe in authority, they are very impudent. This is due to illusion caused by accumulating some wealth and false prestige. Sometimes such demons take up the role of preacher and mislead the people, and become known as religious reformers or as incarnations of God. They make a show of performing sacrifices, and they worship the demigods, or manufacture their own God. Common men advertise them as God and worship them, and by the foolish they are considered advanced in the principles of religion, or in the principles of spiritual knowledge. They take the dress of the renounced order of life and engage in all nonsense in that dress. Actually there are so many restrictions for one who has renounced this world. The demons, however, do not care for such restrictions. They think that whatever path one can create is one's own path; there is no such thing as a standard path one has to follow. The word avidhi-pūrvakam, meaning 'disregard for the rules and regulations,' is especially stressed here. These things are always due to ignorance and illusion."

Next text? Text 18.

ahaṅkāraṁ balaṁ darpaṁ
kāmaṁ krodhaṁ ca saṁśritāḥ
mām ātma-para-deheṣu
pradviṣanto 'bhyasūyakāḥ
(BG 16.18)

Translation: "Bewildered by false ego, strength, pride, lust and anger, the demon becomes envious of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is situated in his own body and in the bodies of others, and blasphemes against the real religion."

Purport? "A demoniac person, being always against God's supremacy, does not like to believe in the scriptures. He is envious both of the scriptures and of the existence of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. This is caused by his so-called prestige and his accumulation of wealth and strength. He does not know that the present life is a preparation for the next life. Not knowing this, he is actually envious of his own self, as well as of others. He commits violence on others' bodies and on his own. He does not care for the supreme control of the Personality of Godhead because he has no knowledge. Being envious of the scriptures and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he puts forward false arguments against the existence of God and refutes the scriptural authority. He thinks himself independent and powerful in every action. He thinks that since no one can equal him in strength, power or in wealth, he can act in any way and no one can stop him. If he has an enemy who might check the advancement of his sensual activities, he makes plans to cut him down by his own power."

Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this purport you mention that not knowing that this life is a preparation for the next life, that one actually becomes envious of his own self.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he's going to become a dog next life, and if he does not take precaution, then he is not envying himself? In this life you are prime minister, and next life, you are preparing to become a dog, so what is the use of your becoming prime minister? You could not save yourself. Nature's law will go on. You may become prime minister or any minister, but the law will act. If you have infected some disease, so the disease will develop. It doesn't matter whether you are prime minister or this minister. So these rascals say they do not know it. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Find out this verse. This low-grade birth, high-grade birth, why it is happening? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi
bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān
kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya
(BG 13.22)

"The living entity in material nature thus follows the ways of life, enjoying the three modes of nature. This is due to his association with that material nature. Thus he meets with good and evil amongst various species."

Prabhupāda: We are practically seeing it, that material nature . . . some infection, this is also material nature, and if you are infected with some contaminous disease, you must suffer. They practically see it. The nature will work. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-sthaḥ. As soon as we are in this material world . . . I am living entity, spirit soul, and because I am in this material world, I have accepted this material body under the regulation of the material laws. Otherwise why there are so many varieties of life? Here is a tree. It is standing here. We are human beings; we are also here. But when there is cold blast, scorching heat, we can go into the room, but if he has to be standing here for thousands of years . . . why this distinction? He cannot move even an inch. It is also living entity. Why he is punished in that way? And when there will be snowfall, pinching cold, he cannot go. But a small ant, it can go from here to there. Moving and not moving, the two kinds of living entities . . . some of them can move; some of them cannot move, sthāvara. Just like grass. We are trampling over with our legs. It cannot protest. Why these differences of grades of life? This is described here. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte (BG 13.22). What is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enjoys. Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Because this prakṛti, nature, is made of three modes of material nature, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Just like we are trying to associate with sattva-guṇa—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling. So others, they are not anxious for these things. They will say, "What is the wrong there? You can do that." But because you are infecting that tamo-guṇa, you'll have to suffer. You'll have to become a tree; you have to become a dog. How you can stop it? Where is your science? Why the scientists dying? Why they cannot invent some means, a tablet, that "At the time of my death, push this tablet in my belly, I'll not die"? Why they are unable to do so? Who can answer this? Why the rascal scientists do not manufacture such things that there'll be no death for the scientist? Hmm? What do you say? Anyone for scientist can plead? (laughter)

Devotee (1): They want to do it, Prabhupāda, but they cannot.

Prabhupāda: That is complacence. What is called? "Yes, in future we shall do." That's all. Then at present you cannot do, then you are imperfect. Why you are declaring yourself as scientist? Scientist means who is in full knowledge. That is scientist. And if you are not in full knowledge, how you are scientist? "Big, big scientist, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." Rascals say that chemicals, combination of chemical, makes life. So we challenge that you begin from an egg. Everyone sees the egg—some white substance, some yellow substance, covered with some shells. So just manufacture it and give it to the incubator, and let the chicken come. Why you take the egg from another living chicken? What is the answer? You rascal, you make one small egg. We can see there are some white substance, yellow substance, so you combine some chemicals, white and yellow, and cover it with celluloid shell and put it under the incubator. You get. Why the rascals cannot do it? And still, the rascals will say that life can be . . . is combination of chemicals. Give this challenge to these rascals, that "Life is . . . if it is combination of chemical, why don't you do it, the simple thing?" Yes?

Janāhlāda: I was reading the other day where they have certain kinds of scientists who do nothing but make tastes out of chemicals. They say they can duplicate any taste, and they are very highly paid now for making synthetic foods taste like all other kinds of real foods.

Prabhupāda: And they'll not produce food.

Janāhlāda: They are not producing the food, no.

Prabhupāda: In this way they are getting high salary, and we have to pay tax for that, income tax. This is going on. That means roguism. We have got money. Government will take it away and pay these rascals, scientific research. There are so many foundations in your country. If you ask them, "Give us some money for Kṛṣṇa conscious," "No, no, no, we don't pay for anything. We pay to the scientists." They will say.

Rādhā-vallabha: Now they are going to Mars.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: Now they are going to Mars planet. They have two ships heading for Mars, and they want one to land on July 4th.

Prabhupāda: It has already started?

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes. Now they have given up on the moon. Now it is Mars.

Prabhupāda: And the fools are paying for that.

Rādhā-vallabha: Yes, millions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Just see. One attempt has already failed; again they are making attempt and spending like any . . .

Rādhā-vallabha: Isn't it impossible for them to reach Mars, because it is a hellish planet?

Prabhupāda: Who says it is hellish planet?

Rādhā-vallabha: In Bhāgavatam. It is described as inauspicious in Third Canto in the story of Varāha.

Prabhupāda: Maybe. So first of all let them go. They cannot go. According to our calculation, Vedic calculation, the moon is above sun planet, and the Mars is above moon planet.

Rādhā-vallabha: Oh. So they would have to go past the sun.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Rādhā-vallabha: So they would have to go past the sun, to reach it.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, according to their calculation, 93,000,000's miles . . . so the moon is above 1,600,000 miles. And again (sic) 106,000. So another three million miles above the sun, it becomes sixteen million miles. So if they cannot go to the sun planet, how they can go to the Mars? All bogus.

Ṛṣi Kumāra: I saw one scientist on television, and he was saying on Mars there are mountains that are very, very big, much bigger than the mountains on this planet, and there's beautiful landscape, and they want to start a tourist industry, taking people back and forth. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They want to start a tourist industry on Mars, taking people back and forth.

Prabhupāda: But there is no life.

Hari-śauri: They already sold the tickets to the moon. Now they're going to go on to Mars.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say there is less advanced life, like plants.

Prabhupāda: Why not more advanced life?

Rādhā-vallabha: According to their speculation, they say that the atmosphere is . . .

Prabhupāda: So that means speculation.

Rādhā-vallabha: Well they have a system, so-called system, by using light.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We find there are two kinds of living entities, sthāvara and jaṅgama. One kind of living entity, they cannot move, and one kind of living entity, they move. So just like here there is grass, there are trees and there are . . . we are also. There are many animals who can move. So why, if there are plants who are not moving, why not the other moving animals? This is commonsense reason. Everywhere we see two kinds of animals— moving and not moving. If the not-moving is there, why not the moving? What is the wrong there? This is our first question.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say that under certain conditions, just like in . . .

Prabhupāda: No, don't, don't find such condition. That is a rascaldom. We don't find such con . . . anywhere you go, there are two kinds of living entities—moving and not moving.

Janāhlāda: One of the ways they tell whether there are advanced forms of life is if they can see vegetation growing on different planets in waves like in seasons, and if they can't see that in an orderly pattern, then they conclude that there is no life, no advanced life.

Prabhupāda: Why there is no vegetation? They say there is vegetation.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say like lichens. Lichens are . . .

Prabhupāda: That means not yet certain.

Rādhā-vallabha: No, they admit they're not certain.

Prabhupāda: This is all . . . they're misleading.

Hari-śauri: According to that report we read the other day, they had good information now that the atmosphere was water and ice, like that. So they were expecting to find some signs of life, and they were going to land a spaceship in a canyon which was just below the equator, just at the mouth of the canyon. And it's four miles deep, and fifty thousand years ago it was filled with water, so they are expecting to find fossils there now.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They've never been there, though. Speculation.

Rādhā-vallabha: They never take into any consideration there can be another form of life other than that which they know.

Prabhupāda: No, they are speculating. But why people are victimized by this speculation? That is the . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's the amazing thing.

Prabhupāda: They have already failed in one speculation. They went to moon planet with some speculation. That has failed. Why they are given chance, another speculation?

Rādhā-vallabha: Everyone believes that they went.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Rādhā-vallabha: Everyone believes that they went.

Prabhupāda: They went, but what is the benefit? What for they went?

Rādhā-vallabha: For scientific exploration. They consider that very noble.

Prabhupāda: Scientific exploration at the expense of these taxpayer?

Rādhā-vallabha: They consider it a very noble cause to increase knowledge.

Prabhupāda: That . . . the same story, that some frogs were there, and children was throwing stone. Then the frogs appealed, "Sir, why you are throwing stone upon us?" "No, we are playing." "So what is play for you, it is death to us." (laughter) So these rascals are playing, and we have to pay heavy tax for that. This is going on. We are playing, making some scientific research, and who will pay for that? You. You work hard in the factory and pay tax. This is civilization. "You pay tax, and we spend it as we like." Frivolasy. This is going on. This is the government of Kali-yuga. What can you do?

Devotee (2): Speak out against these rascals

Prabhupāda: "What is play to you is death to us." And "Never mind you die. We play." They have already spent so much money, moon exploration. And that has stopped now, no benefit. They brought some sand and some rock, satisfied. Again the same thing with Mars. But we can say from our poor knowledge that as they have failed in the moon planet, they will fail also in the Mars. Take it down. Note now. Do you know this is all bluff?

Rādhā-vallabha: In Los Angeles papers they quoted you saying that, that they didn't go to the moon.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: They quoted you as saying this in Los Angeles, in a newspaper. Also your Monday-Tuesday example . . . Sunday-Monday. They put that in the newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Nobody can answer that. The common sense. Can any one of you answer why Sunday first and Monday next? You are all of the scientists. Why don't you say? It is commonsense question, "Why Sunday first and next . . .?" All over the world. In the human society, everywhere you go, they will say Sunday first, Monday second. In India, Ravivāra. Ravi. Ravi means sun. And Somavāra. Somavāra means Monday. The planetary system is so arranged, first of all sun, then moon. Then Mars, then Saturn, Saturday. Saturn is last. Even Svarūpa Dāmodara has not answered.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He cannot meet the challenge.

Prabhupāda: Any scientist here who can answer why Sunday first and Monday second?

Janāhlāda: I'm not a scientist, but I always thought that the ancients thought that the sun was first because without telescopes or without light-measuring instruments it was bigger and it looked closer.

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. Sunday is first, and Monday—moon is beyond sun. If they accept that nobody can approach sun, then how they can approach moon? In calculation, eighteen thousand miles per hour, and if the moon is situated 95,000,000 miles, then how they can go in four days? These are my questions. They have not been answered. It takes at least seven months. And they went in four days, and the man's mother . . . his photograph was there. She said, "Oh, at last my son has gone there." You have seen that photograph? I have seen it. Mother was satisfied. This is going on.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next verse?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Text 19. Tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān saṁsāreṣu narādhamān . . . (BG 16.19).

Prabhupāda: This is their result. These rascals, atheist class, they'll suffer in this way. That is described now. Hmm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu. "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence, into various demoniac species of life."

Prabhupāda: This is the result. What is their explanation of the varieties of life?

Rādhā-vallabha: They say, due to evolution over many millions of years . . .

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The strongest, somehow they survive, and other, weaker species, they become extinct.

Rādhā-vallabha: They say the origin of species is genetic.

Devotee (3): They say "Somehow or other . . ." Then . . .

Prabhupāda: Is that science, "Somehow or other"? If I say, "Somehow or other, you'll become a dog," (laughter) what is the wrong there? If things are taking place somehow or other, so I say somehow or other you'll become a dog. Our explanation is complete. They accept somehow or other is a means. So . . . (indistinct) . . . so somehow or other, you are going to be dog. How can you deny it? If that is your position, that things are taking place somehow or other, so how can you deny, somehow or other you'll become a dog? Hmm?

Rādhā-vallabha: They will say that "We have seen that these other things have taken place . . ."

Prabhupāda: But then it is not that "somehow or other." This argument cannot be. Nothing happens somehow or other. We don't believe that. Here is the cause: tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān kṣipāmy andha-yoni . . . what is that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān
saṁsāreṣu narādhamān
kṣipāmy ajasram aśubhān
āsurīṣv eva yoniṣu
(BG 16.19)

Prabhupāda: Hmm, what is meaning?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Tān—those; aham—I; dviṣataḥ—envious; krūrān—mischievous; saṁsāreṣu—into the ocean of material existence; narādhamān—the lowest of mankind; kṣipāmi—put; ajasram—innumerable; aśubhān—inauspicious; āsurīṣu—demoniac; eva—certainly; yoniṣu—in the wombs."

Prabhupāda: There are so many varieties of life, so we have to accept one of them by Kṛṣṇa's desire, Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa says, īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). He is situated in everyone's heart. He's observing everything. So He orders that "Give him a body like this." Who can check it? Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā. This body is a machine. The machine is given by material nature. Today you may be a very big man, and by your activities, asuric activities, you are so condemned that you have to accept a lower-grade life, a fox, sly fox. "You are very sly to spend others' money in moon excursion. Now you become a fox." So who can check it? Here it is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). So you cannot check it. You are not so great scientist. Then how do you say, "There is no God"? You cannot check God's law, so how you can say that there is no God? You can say at your home, "I don't care for government." And when government arrests you and puts you in difficulty, how can you check it? Is it possible? Then why do you submit that? When the police comes and arrests you, you can say, "No, no, I don't care for any officer." You cannot say. Is this not punishment? This tree is standing here for hundreds of years, and it will go on standing for thousands of years. Is it not punishment?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport?

Prabhupāda: So what the atheist will answer, this? Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll put him into this condition." What the atheist will answer?

Rādhā-vallabha: He'll say there is no experience of anyone taking a next birth.

Prabhupāda: No experience? You are not diseased? Do you want disease? Still you say you have no experience? When you are put into some disease and go to hospital and the doctor surgically operates your body, so you have no experience? You did not want that. Your fertile brain, when it is operated with hammer, so you did not experience? How do you say that you have no experience? You are suffering every moment, but you don't want suffering. How do you say that there is no experience? That is foolishness. You are suffering every moment, adhyātmika, adhibhautika, adhidaivika. Still, you say you have no experience? Means shameless. In Indian language we call vehāyā. He has got repeated experience; still, he'll say, "No, I don't care for it."

Rādhā-vallabha: How does he have experience of rebirth?

Prabhupāda: Apart from that . . . that you have to take. Because you are put into difficulty which you do not want, this is your experience. So the intelligent man's question will be that "I did not want this, but who has put me into this condition?" That is intelligent.

Hari-śauri: Well, they say that the suffering, there's no divine cause for that. That's just a material cause.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, you did not want; you have it—against your will. This is your experience. There is no difference. Either you say material cause or spiritual cause, but you are suffering what you did not want. That is the point. You are suffering, and you did not want it. Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ (SB 7.6.3). Nobody wants distress, but it comes. How it comes? Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ, Prahlāda Mahārāja . . . ayatnataḥ means without any endeavoring. Who is trying that "Let there be fire in my house"? But it takes. Nobody wants that "There may be fire in my house," but there is fire. Therefore you have to arrange for fire brigade. You are expecting always some danger. Therefore you make so many precautions, because you know that although you do not want mishappenings, it will come. Nobody endeavors for mishappenings, but you know there is some superior force who'll enforce mishappening. And they are unable to counteract. Just like a scientist knows that he'll die, but he's so expert scientist that he cannot counteract. He knows that he will die. He's talking all nonsense while living, but he does not make any arrangement that he will not die. That he is unable. They are making arrangement, going to the Mars planet at the expense of taxpayer. So if we request these rascal scientists that "You discover something so that we will not die. Take any amount of money," will they able?

Rādhā-vallabha: They'll die while they are trying to find out.

Prabhupāda: Then? What is the use of this scientist? That "Take any amount. Here is my beloved son. My scientist, physician, you take any amount. Just give life to my son." Is it able? These are practical thing. False, bogus bluffing—that is another thing.

Rādhā-vallabha: They get angry if we tell them these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is . . . means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita). Mūrkha, a rascal, is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam (Cāṇakya Paṇḍita). Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he will get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that "Here is a snake." So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura. So therefore they become snakes, scorpion, so low-grade life. Snake life is so degraded that at once you see a snake, immediately every one of us will be ready to kill it. Everyone, without any mercy. Nobody will say, "No, no, let it go." So he is put into that life that he cannot come in the light. As soon as he comes in the vision of somebody, everyone is ready to kill. And nobody is sorry. Nobody is sorry. Prahlāda Mahārāja said that. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). Even one is saintly person, he'll be satisfied if a snake is killed. Saintly person doesn't want that anyone should be killed, but if a snake is killed, he's happy: "Oh, you have done right." Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "My father is killed; nobody is unhappy. (laughter) Nobody is unhappy. But he was just like a snake and scorpion. Now You be satisfied. There is no cause of becoming angry. Everyone is satisfied." That was Prahlāda Mahārāja prayer. Find out this verse. Where is Seventh Canto?

Rādhā-vallabha: Seventh Canto? (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. There is no "modeta"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, it might be the second or fourth line.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is fourth line. (devotees still trying to find) Give it to me. Where is spectacle? Oh, you have gone so far. Here it is. (laughter)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā.

Rādhā-vallabha: It appeared, and you didn't even look. Remarkable.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

tad yaccha manyum asuraś ca hatas tvayādya
modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā
lokāś ca nirvṛtim itāḥ pratiyanti sarve
rūpaṁ nṛsiṁha vibhayāya janāḥ smaranti
(SB 7.9.14)

"My Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva, please, therefore, cease Your anger now that my father, the great demon Hiraṇyakaśipu, has been killed. Since even saintly persons take pleasure in the killing of a scorpion or snake, all the worlds have achieved great satisfaction because of the death of this demon. Now they are confident of their happiness, and they will always remember Your auspicious incarnation in order to be free from fear."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport: "The most important point in this verse is that although saintly persons never desire the killing of any living entity, they take pleasure in the killing of envious living entities like snakes and scorpions. Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy."

Prabhupāda: Snake or scorpion . . . of course, sometimes snakes, they eat their own children. They do it. But he was . . . he has tried to kill his own child. Modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā. Very good example. Saintly persons, they also want killing living entities like snake. Hmm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "Hiraṇyakaśipu was killed because he was worse than a snake or a scorpion, and therefore everyone was happy. Now there was no need for the Lord to be angry. The devotees can always remember the form of Nṛsiṁha-deva when they are in danger, and therefore the appearance of Nṛsiṁha-deva was not at all inauspicious. The Lord's appearance is always worshipable and auspicious for all sane persons and devotees."

Prabhupāda: What is next verse?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

nāhaṁ bibhemy ajita te 'tibhayānakāsya
nirhrāda-bhīta-digibhād ari-bhin-nakhāgrāt
(SB 7.9.15)

Translation: "My Lord, who are never conquered by anyone, I am certainly not afraid of Your ferocious mouth and tongue, Your eyes bright like the sun, or Your frowning eyebrows. I do not fear Your sharp, pinching teeth, Your garland of intestines, Your mane soaked with blood, or Your high, wedgelike ears. Nor do I fear Your tumultuous roaring, which makes elephants flee to distant places, or Your nails, which are meant to kill Your enemies."

Prabhupāda: Nail is sufficient to kill an enemy like Hiraṇyakaśipu. No other weapon required. Simply tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam. Wonderful nails. Tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam, dalita-hiraṇyakaśipu-tanu-bhṛṅgam. Just like we sometimes press some insects; immediately dies. So (chuckling) this Hiraṇyakaśipu, simply by nails pressed and finished.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Thank you for . . . (indistinct) . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!

Prabhupāda: Give it to Kīrtanānanda. Tava kara-kamala-vare nakham adbhuta-śṛṅgam. (end)