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| | [[Category:1972 - Conversations]] |
| <RD:"Verse Section"><PS:"Conv code">721025RC.VRN | | [[Category:1972 - Lectures and Conversations]] |
| | [[Category:1972 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]] |
| | [[Category:1972-10 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]] |
| | [[Category:Conversations - India]] |
| | [[Category:Conversations - India, Vrndavana]] |
| | [[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India]] |
| | [[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - India, Vrndavana]] |
| | [[Category:Audio Files 05.01 to 10.00 Minutes]] |
| | [[Category:1972 - New Audio - Released in December 2015]] |
| | <div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1972 - Conversations|1972]]'''</div> |
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| Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana here is one temple... There is likely that they cannot (indistinct for several minutes) Suppose everything is (indistinct). Therefore accepting (indistinct) how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Mahārāja (indistinct). In this temple also, I am making (indistinct) decision. (break) ...is not in favor of any of the parties. So if it also comes in our hands, it has to be (indistinct). Now, supposing you have got three, then how you shall manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. (indistinct) position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. That, the (indistinct) that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are (indistinct) sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect sometimes somebody takes money in advance. So what is my position? (indistinct) the rentor may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the rentor, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also. (indistinct) Of course, I have got many (indistinct). But it is sentiment. We (indistinct) these things. This is criminal arrangement(?). Suppose when you the management of all these, how we shall manage?
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| Gurudāsa: Not only how, but who.
| | <div class="code">721024R1-VRNDAVAN - October 24, 1972 - 08:18 Minutes</div> |
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| Prabhupāda: Hm?
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| Gurudāsa: Not how, as well as who. Because how is not... (break)
| | <mp3player>https://s3.amazonaws.com/vanipedia/full/1972/721024R1-VRNDAVAN.mp3</mp3player> |
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| Prabhupāda: The mouse are afraid of cats. So they held a meeting (indistinct). Then the resolution was passed that let there be a bell in the neck of the cat fixed up, so that when he is coming the bell will ring and we shall know, "Now he is coming." Immediately it was passed. The first resolution was passed. Then how to bell, who will go to bell? Because anyone who will go to bell the cat, he will be devoured. So the plan-making that this will be managed like this, there is a resolution, bells, fixing of a bell. Now go in and fix up the bell.
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| Gurudāsa: It seems that Bhavānanda prabhu is the best manager.
| | Prabhupāda: Now in Vṛndāvana here is one temple . . . there is likely that they cannot . . . (indistinct) . . . suppose everything is in our hand. How to manage? Therefore accepting the main temple, you have to . . . how to manage. This is between ourself. Suppose if Bharatpur Mahārāja after some time . . . (indistinct) . . . in this temple also, I am making the important decisions. (break) . . . is not in favor of Indian parties. So if they also come in our hands, it has to be . . . (indistinct) |
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| Prabhupāda: Manager anyone can become, but manpower... We have no Indian members chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.
| | Now, supposing you have got three, then how you to manage? Simply taking over is no good. Because they are giving, means they cannot manage. That property is very valuable property, Bharatpur place. So they are thinking of giving it over to us because it is not being managed. Their position is here. So up to now we are strong. But if our, what is called, cooperation becomes slack, then our temple also the same thing will be. |
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| Gurudāsa: No.
| | That, the . . . (indistinct) . . . that I am staying here for the last ten or twelve years and paying, but the property belongs to the Deity. And there are several sevaites. Sometimes somebody starts noting that you neglect; sometimes somebody takes money in other. So what is my position? . . . (indistinct) . . . the renter may decide what is my position. Actually, in terms of the renter, I am tenant for these two rooms, and that also . . . (indistinct) |
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| Prabhupāda: So how much men we shall import? And whether it is feasible by importing men to manage this facility?
| | (break) . . . for some place it becomes difficult. Find out that man's name . . . (indistinct) . . . of course, I have got many . . . (indistinct) . . . but it is sentiment. We have established . . . (indistinct) . . . suppose we beget the management for the whole . . . (indistinct) . . .? How we shall manage? |
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| Gurudāsa: Now, there seems to be a surplus of men in Bombay, from all the reports I've gotten. So some could come. | | Gurudāsa: Not only how, but who. |
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| Prabhupāda: Yes.
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| Gurudāsa: But...
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| Prabhupāda: If we remain here and attract foreigners to come...
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| Gurudāsa: The manpower will come from them.
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| Prabhupāda: Not only visitors (indistinct), those who are spiritually inclined. In that way we may get opportunity.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: The other point is that when we manage these things, there are many guṇḍās in Vṛndāvana. They will try to create some trouble. Just like yesterday. You were present? This boy was fighting with one man. You were not present?
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| Gurudāsa: No. What time was it?
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| Prabhupāda: When the minister came.
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| Gurudāsa: I was not here at that time.
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| Prabhupāda: Tried to pick up quarrel. (break) You have not met?
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| Gurudāsa: Yes, I have met him. At Janmāṣṭamī two years ago at New Vrindaban.
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| Pañca-draviḍa: He is coming in the third shift.
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| Prabhupāda: Huh?
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| Pañca-draviḍa: They will... Girirāja and Bhavānanda and them, they will probably be in the third shift ,depending on how the land deal goes, whether it is settled by them.
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| Prabhupāda: It must be settled. Not (indistinct). Therefore, I have asked so many people to go there. It must be settled.
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| Pañca-draviḍa: The last situation I had heard was that everybody was agreeable, that Nair himself was agreeable and that everything was proceeding, but it was in the hands of the Municipality and that was going so slow, and that Nair himself, he is saying so many dubious things on the outside, but in complete agreement once you step into a room with him. So we are not so much sure. It's more or less in the hands of the Municipality, but who knows what is going on behind the table. Something like that. (break)
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| Prabhupāda: Take a little breakfast?
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| Gurudāsa: They said you wanted to see me?
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| Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, about that typing. (break) How we have secured that house in London.
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| Gurudāsa: Oh, jaya ! All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda!
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| Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace.
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| Devotee (1): Berkshire Palace, (indistinct).
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| Gurudāsa: Duke of Windsor's castle(?).
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| Devotee (1): He's the king there, right? The queen's husband.
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| Prabhupāda: He was to be the king, but he rejected for that one common girl. So the ministry asked him that "You have to give up this girl or you have to give up your throne." So he preferred to give up his throne. And the present queen's father, his second brother, he was made king, King George VI. Otherwise, this Duke of Windsor... When he refused to become the king, he became the Duke of Windsor and he was given this Berkshire Palace.
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| Gurudāsa: He also is the one who has the Windsor Palace?
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| Prabhupāda: No, Windsor Palace is the queen's. That is some seasonal residence. This Buckingham Palace is office. Actually for residential palace, the Windsor Palace. Windsor Palace?
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| Gurudāsa: Windsor, yes.
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| Prabhupāda: That Palace we see in passing.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes, large palace.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes.
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| Gurudāsa: Windsor.
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| Prabhupāda: Berkshire Palace is also nearby.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: It is nearer to John's Tittenhurst. What is that?
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| Gurudāsa: Tittenhurst Park.
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| Prabhupāda: Tittenhurst Park. (To Sarasvatī:) Come on, come on. Come on. So Sarasvatī-devī, we have got good news: your father is coming tomorrow. It is all right? Śyāmasundara is coming tomorrow. You like?
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| Gurudāsa: She says she has four fathers and mothers.
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| Prabhupāda: Four fathers?
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| Gurudāsa: And mothers.
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| Devotee (1): Who are they?
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| Prabhupāda: Four fathers and four mothers?
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| Sarasvatī: Four fathers and (indistinct).
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| Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara is coming tomorrow.
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| Sarasvatī: I told her.
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| Prabhupāda: You have told her?
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| Sarasvati: I told her that Śyāmasundara is coming very soon.
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| Prabhupāda: Ohhhh, that's nice. (break) ...men Monday?
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| Acyutānanda: We can send them but they won't go.
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| Prabhupāda: So if you can make somebody agree, then he is coming tomorrow or day after tomorrow.
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| Acyutānanda: But no one will agree to leave you.
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| Prabhupāda: What is that?
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| Acyutānanda: Letter from the press regarding my songbook.
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| Prabhupāda: Oh.
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| Acyutānanda: So I don't know what to do. Nobody would like to go, to leave you. We would like to go, but we wouldn't want to miss your classes.
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| Gurudāsa: That is so.
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| Prabhupāda: So you can make one condition, that if you return us, we can go at eight or nine, but you must return us by four. Then we can go. Make this condition. Instead of saying no, make some condition.
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| Acyutānanda: It's the 29th?
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Acyutānanda: And he's coming tomorrow?
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| Prabhupāda: I have asked him to come day after tomorrow. He comes generally at about ten.
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| Acyutānanda: But I heard that last year we went and it was not a very big function. (break) I wrote that letter to this Lalitānanda about this Jāhnavī...
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| Prabhupāda: Huh?
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| Acyutānanda: Jāhnavī sampradāya .
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| Prabhupāda: Jāhnavī sampradāya ? Oh, yes, yes.
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| Acyutānanda: So they don't want to put it in Back to Godhead because I used the word infantile, naive, undereducated and incompetent and that's considered most ungentlemanly.
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| Devotee (2): They do not like publishing (indistinct) articles.
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| Acyutānanda: But Prabhupāda says fools and rascals and...
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| Devotee (2): I have written so many articles in the past two years and one has been published in two years.
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| Prabhupāda: For Back to Godhead ?
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| Devotee (2): Back to Godhead, yes. They say no one can understand them.
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| Acyutānanda: (indistinct) from Subala dāsa Mahārāja that they have received his letter on September 16th and I have requested Karandhara to send him one Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
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| Devotee (2): Karandhara has already said no. (break)
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| (Prabhupāda converses in Hindi with guests) (break)
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| Gurudāsa: ...then I must agitate my mind either how to stop the intoxicant or how to get it.
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| Prabhupāda: And if we get the management of this temple, that will be triumph (indistinct) Vṛndāvana. It is the most important place.
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| Gurudāsa: And actually, the men who came yesterday, this Mr. Nath and some men who come regularly, they would like to see it , because they like this...
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| Prabhupāda: Mr. Nath?
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| Gurudāsa: There is one man who comes every day. A Vṛndāvana resident.
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| Prabhupāda: But the one thing, you know there is one physician?
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| Gurudāsa: Printer and physician, yes?
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| Prabhupāda: Printer also? He has published some Caitanya-caritāmṛta. What is his name? | | Prabhupāda: Hmm? |
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| Gurudāsa: Yes, I know it. Hari Nama Press? The press is Hari Nama Press. | | Gurudāsa: Not how, as well as who. Because how is not . . . (break) |
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| Prabhupāda: The physician's name. | | Prabhupāda: The mouse are afraid of cats. So they held a meeting . . . (indistinct) . . . then the resolution was passed that, "Let there be a bell in the neck of the cat fixed up, so that when he is coming, the bell will ring, and we shall know, 'Now he is coming.' " Immediately it was passed. The first resolution was passed. Then how to bell? Who will go to bell? (laughs) |
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| Gurudāsa: Nagia. Dr. Nagia, N-A-G-I-A.
| | Because anyone who will go to bell the cat, he will be devoured. So the plan-making that "This will be managed like this," there is a resolution, bells, fixing of a bell. Now go in and fix up the bell. |
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| Prabhupāda: Nagia. What is his first name?
| | Gurudāsa: It seems that Bhavānanda Prabhu is the best manager. |
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| Gurudāsa: His father's name...
| | Prabhupāda: No, manager anyone can become, but manpower . . . we have no Indian members chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. |
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| Prabhupāda: His father's name. I gave him one set of books, Bhāgavata, (indistinct). So you have to inquire from him whether it is sold (indistinct). (break) | |
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| Gurudāsa: Sudāmā Vipra Mahārāja has such reverence for Siddha Svarūpa, but the other students do not like that, because they think he is treating Siddha Svarūpa with respect when he should be treating you with respect. So naturally, the students love you and so they don't like that.
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| Prabhupāda: They do not like to give him extra...
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| Gurudāsa: Respect, at the expense of yourself.
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| Prabhupāda: There is no such thing. They will stop(?).
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| Gurudāsa: Yes, they are nice boys. Secondly, for some reason they don't like..., they like to cook themselves.
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| Prabhupāda: Eh?
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| Gurudāsa: They like to cook for themselves. They cook without spices and like that, because they are thinking of their health. I gave them... I know, I can... (break)
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| Prabhupāda: (indistinct) a nice place, a very open place. (indistinct)
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| Gurudāsa: You have your choice.
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| Prabhupāda: No, no, it's a very nice place, undoubtedly.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes. The nicest place in Vṛndāvana.
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| Prabhupāda: Huh?
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| Gurudāsa: One of the nicest buildings. He had so many buildings in Vṛndāvana from his dynasty, but they have all been taken by unscrupulous pūjārīs.
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| Prabhupāda: Huh?
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| Gurudāsa: They've been taken by unscrupulous pūjārīs that are just squatting illegally. And so he says, "All right, let them have it." But this one he has kept because it is so first class.
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| Prabhupāda: So we shall have to deal with this pūjārī.
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| Gurudāsa: This one...
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| Prabhupāda: Is nice?
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| Gurudāsa: Nice, and he jumps when the Mahārāja speaks. I don't think he will get rid of this pūjārī.
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| Prabhupāda: He is alone or he has got some associates?
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| Gurudāsa: Alone.
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| Prabhupāda: He is living with family?
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| Gurudāsa: No. | | Gurudāsa: No. |
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| Prabhupāda: Alone. | | Prabhupāda: So how much men we shall import? And whether it is feasible by importing men to manage this facility? |
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| Gurudāsa: Alone.
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| Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
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| Gurudāsa: We will retain him in some way.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, you retain him.
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| Gurudāsa: That is the system, that he stays there but we will do the pūjārī work.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. Give him salary.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: He is being paid?
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| Gurudāsa: I think they must be.
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| Prabhupāda: Anyway, whatever he is being paid, we shall pay. (indistinct).
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| Gurudāsa: (indistinct) also knows it, because he announced to this chairman of the council that he will become the gardener and they will become the pūjārīs . So he is for that.
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| Prabhupāda: The poor man, unless he gets some income, he becomes (indistinct).
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: He is not renounced. So let him (indistinct). So when you are going to talk to the Mahārāja?
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| Gurudāsa: I will be going today if he sends a car. Or if not, I think I will go tomorrow. But that means I cannot go to Delhi. But I don't think... I think Manasvi and Mr. Sarkar, the engineer, can handle this deal. It's just to see if they can give another allotment.
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| Prabhupāda: Not that everywhere you have to go. You go to the important business.
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| Gurudāsa: So which do you think is more important—this deal or the palace? I think the palace.
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| Prabhupāda: Anyone can purchase. But to get the palace it requires great tactful dealing.
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| Gurudāsa: Subala Mahārāja and I are going to Mathurā today to find out the position what they have done in relationship to this sanction, written sanction.
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| Prabhupāda: From Mathurā, then go to Bharatpur.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: From Mathurā, Bharatpur is near.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: I think there is train or bus.
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| Gurudāsa: There is bus, train. But the thing is, he may be sending a car here. | | Gurudāsa: Now there are . . . there seems to be a surplus of men in Bombay, from all the reports I've gotten. So some could come. |
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| Prabhupāda: Oh.
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| Gurudāsa: So I am getting a message from that boy who wrote the article, with the moustache. The boy who wrote the article, he has gone to Bharatpur with that note.
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| Prabhupāda: Oh. He is very good boy.
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| Gurudāsa: Yes.
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| Prabhupāda: Keep him as our friend. Give him nice food, prasādam. He is intelligent. He can see that āratik , very nice.
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| Gurudāsa: He has been coming since the beginning. Since we first came he has been coming.
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| Prabhupāda: So keep him as good friend.
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| Gurudāsa: I try to do that with everyone.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. Especially he is very nicely inclined. He is married or not?
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| Gurudāsa: No.
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| Prabhupāda: (indistinct) what does he do?
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| Gurudāsa: He lives with his father, and he goes to Bon Mahārāja University.
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| Prabhupāda: For education? Yes.
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| Gurudāsa: But I asked him, "Do they teach any spiritual philosophy there," and he said no.
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| Prabhupāda: There is no spiritual philosophy. It is an academic, ordinary college. People understand that where is the credit, there are so many colleges. Responsible people, they understand that I am doing much more valuable thing. So what is the use of these schools and colleges? That (indistinct) school, college is not very good. And there are so many schools and colleges. That is not a very extraordinary thing.
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| Gurudāsa: Now I understand that Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, that school is not teaching spiritual philosophy. I told many people that if we got the chance to open a university, we would not compromise. We would not do anything with the government if they restricted our curriculum...
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. | | Prabhupāda: Yes. |
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| Gurudāsa: ...without spiritual... Without spiritual it is void. | | Gurudāsa: But . . . |
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| Prabhupāda: What do they say? | | Prabhupāda: If we remain here and attract foreigners to come . . . |
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| Gurudāsa: They think. Then I say, "You can teach all the subjects and also teach the spiritual. " | | Gurudāsa: The manpower will come from them. |
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| Prabhupāda: If we organize our Bombay, then we shall regularly teach all the students from the very beginning. And in London also we shall. London, Dallas. So that these students will be transferred. Their parents will be very glad that our students have gone to foreign countries for study. We shall have very, very good sympathy(?). Our only policy will be the students should be taught very nice English for understanding our books.
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| Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than Māyāpur?
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| Prabhupāda: Hm?
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| Gurudāsa: In Bombay rather than...
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| Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere. But you make higher study, higher study, higher study.
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| Gurudāsa: Māyāpur can be the highest.
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| Prabhupāda: (indistinct), or everywhere this existence(?) should be lower class, higher class. But our all institutions should be for giving spiritual. We have got so many books. Simply he has to learn English and Sanskrit, that's all. (indistinct) So we are not going to follow the university curriculum, no. We have got our own.
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| Gurudāsa: We have had experience in the university, and it has not satisfied us. We have come to you.
| | Prabhupāda: Not only visitors . . . (indistinct) . . . those who are spiritually inclined. In that way we may get opportunity. |
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| Prabhupāda: Not only you, I know what (indistinct). What nonsense they give. | |
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| Gurudāsa: Yamunā?
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| Yamunā: Yes, prabhu ?
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| Gurudāsa: Where is that file, that spiritual exposition? I wanted to show it to Prabhupāda.
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| Yamunā: Prabhu, I looked for it, I couldn't find it.
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| Gurudāsa: Recently? I'll look again.
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| Prabhupāda: So we shall now go?
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| Gurudāsa: Yes, we can go now.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: What's the time now? Six?
| |
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| Gurudāsa: (indistinct) upstairs. Shall I get it?
| |
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| Prabhupāda: No.
| |
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| Gurudāsa: I should put it on. You're always asking me the time.
| |
| | |
| (break)
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| Devotee (3): Also in Los Angeles they are buying press?
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| | |
| Prabhupāda: That is small press. That is not for printing books, some small pamphlets.
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| Indian man: (indistinct)
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| Prabhupāda: Ah.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: George is going to make any more records, recordings?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: He has already made one record about our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
| |
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| Gurudāsa: Really?
| |
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, recent.
| |
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| Gurudāsa: With talking on it, vocal?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
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| | |
| Gurudāsa: With some talking on it.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: That I do not know. Śyāmasundara is coming tomorrow. Where is that telegram?
| |
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| Devotee (3): It's just here.
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| Prabhupāda: (break) ...India, I'll have to go South Africa. Johannesburg?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Johannesburg.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Johannesburg, yes. There also we are meeting with great success. And from Johannesburg, then I shall go to London. In Moscow also we have got a small center. I went to Moscow.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Russians running it?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, Russians. Russian young boys are as good as Americans. By artificial means they have been checked. The Russian government is not good at all. Suppression. Simply suppression.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: But they permit this kind of thing?
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| | |
| Prabhupāda: They do not permit, but they are holding class.
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| Indian man: Holding class.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, reading Bhagavad-gītā. And I am getting that boy married with my one French girl disciple. Then he will be strong. (laughs) We are also playing politics. You know that...
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Mandākinī.
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| Prabhupāda: Mandākinī, yes. Very nice girl. You have seen her?
| |
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| Devotee (3): Very nice pujārī.
| |
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| Prabhupāda: Very intelligent, educated, beautiful, everything. And I have asked her that "You go to Russia and marry that boy." She has accepted.
| |
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| Indian man: She has accepted.
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| | |
| Prabhupāda: Great risk.
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| | |
| Indian man: Great risk.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes. These rascals at any time can arrest anyone and keep in him the concentration camp. Oh, it is a dangerous government. And they will take you anywhere, nobody will know. Just like even a great person, Kruschev, nobody knows his whereabouts. It is a very dangerous government. But as they are advertising, people are not happy. Moscow city is nice, but it is old constructed. The same Communistic government has not done anything. There are very big, big buildings, nice roads, everything, but they are all old, not new.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): What they are doing with their wealth?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Wealth?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): What are they doing with their wealth if they are not investing it in economic...
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: They're simply spending for military, that's all.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Bombs, missiles.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: That is their business. They are keeping a strong military strength, that's all.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: The sign of piety there is vegetarian.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Who says?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Dr. Chandra. He just came back.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: From Russia?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: From Russia again.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Nonsense. There is nothing but meat.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: He said that some people who are religious, they are vegetarian.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: I don't think there is any vegetarian, because in the store you will get only meat. There is no vegetable, no fruit. Śyāmasundara had to spend two hours for collecting food. There is no rice, (indistinct), nothing. For vegetarians it is very, very difficult to live in Moscow.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (2): Just recently the Russians went to the United States and bought huge quantities of grains for Russia.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: There are no grains.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (2): They bought some wheat.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: It is a barren land, icy land, that's all. Huge land icy.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): They are being punished.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: And I was in month of June, still in the morning the wind was so cold. And there is double glass in every window, double glass. Just like aeroplane, double. And at half past eleven in the month of June, when in your country it is half past eleven o'clock, that is evening. And at half past three o'clock, morning. And still the little night, that is just like dusk; it is not completely dark. And laborer class... (speaks to someone in Hindi) Keep it open. (break) (indistinct) Every corner of the street, Lenin's picture. All books are sold, they are Lenin. No other literature. You cannot get taxi. Poor men, they cannot pay for taxi. Very little number. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him, "Now we shall go. Get me taxi." So he, "Yes, it is Moscow." So he got down, he personally showed me, "Instead of taking taxi waiting, please go in this way when you go to your hotel." He showed me shortcut. People are walking, and they are running for the bus. It is not at all a rich country. A poor country. And if you see the shops, you will find old (indistinct), just like antique shop. Because you cannot purchase generally, everything you have to purchase from government store, and in queue. It is botheration. And actually in India it is going to happen like this. Everything you have to purchase in queue. Here?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Oh, yes.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: So you have to waste so much time.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Milk you have to purchase in queue.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Everything.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: I have experienced that directly in India, Prabhupāda, because I'm working with these merchants all the time, and the government is nationalizing and taking over one industry after another. They took over the control of flour, they took over the control of sugar, they've already got rice, then they took over the exportation of textiles. And I say, "Don't you have anything in your Constitution to prevent this?" They said, "No. We have voted in the government for six years; they can do as they like. The only way is to wait six years and vote them out again. But there is no provision..."
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: The future is not very nice. And government management means no one's servant.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: No what?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: No one's servant. Everyone's servant means no one's servant. They are no one's servant.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: They will never give you anything.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Comparatively, life in foreign countries nice. Because I am seeing, from materialistic point of view. In America, you can get anything without any control. Any amount, anything.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: There is more supply than demand.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Than demand, yes. That is the problem there: what to do with the stuff that you have got and that you are producing. That's an economic problem.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Not just supply, quality. When you buy an orange and you have a glass of orange juice, it's orange, it's not yellow. (laughter)
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): But by their lack of demand, we are reaping a harvest.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, especially in California, oranges, if you compare orange here available... Dates, first-class dates, first-class orange. There is watermelon. All season you get watermelon, karmuj( ?). First-class watermelon. And karmuj . And what is that special karmuj produced in Keśi-ghāṭa? That greenish?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Honeydew?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: There is no special name for it.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, it is special in Vṛndāvana. That greenish.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Special quality.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, in your country it is called honey comb.
| |
| | |
| Devotees: Honeydew.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Honeydew, yes. So I immediately remember your Keśi-ghāṭa karmuj, first class. So sweet, little greenish. But you can get all the year round. Actually America is favored. Therefore, I repeatedly say that you Americans, you are graced by God, you simply take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will become first-class nation. And actually they are taking more than other countries. (break)
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): India will become Communist also?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: It has already begun. India will become Communist. What do you think?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: It's difficult to predict. I don't think so soon.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: One life member very dramatically the other day said it is not around the corner...
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Especially in Bengal they have become Communist.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: She says we are amidst it.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Madras they have become Communist.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: She says we are amidst Communism.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: She said it is not around the corner, we are amidst it now. So it's very obvious.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: We are in the midst of it.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: That is what she said.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Even the optimistic merchants and people you talk to, I say, "It is Communist government?" They say, "Well, it is Communist-minded government." The government has printed in the paper one headline recently that says by next March..., what is that called, Rana, Rana or Rava, next March calendar.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Ravan?
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Rava or something, a particular notation on the calendar, it corresponds to March or April, r—a something. I don't know the exact period of time, but by March, the government says they will completely..., they want to completely take over the control of wheat by this time. They have already taken over the control of atta and flour and now suji. They want to take over the control of wheat and the control of sugar completely. So all these things we are seeing is what they are doing, they are taking over control, they are rationing the items, but in the ration shop you can get 800 grams of the product and then you have to go out onto the market and buy at outrageous prices, because nobody can feed a family on 800 grams of sugar a month. It's very little for five people. The price of sugar has gone up over a rupee and a half since the government took over.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Ration means black market. (break)
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| Devotee (3): ...especially in Bengal. (break) You come to Calcutta, we will keep you forever.
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| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: But in Bombay we'll make better arrangements.
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| Prabhupāda: We have published one brochure. (break)
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: ...nicely in the Kṛṣṇa book about the sacrifices of Vasudeva. Where Lord Kṛṣṇa speaks and says to the assembled sages and ascetics that "Seeing you is the perfection of these eyes and perfection of life," and that "Those persons who go to the holy places only to take bath there or to see the Deities in the temple, they are no better than animals like the ass." I've been thinking that how you have presented this ISKCON movement as an assembly of devotees all over the world so they don't even have to go to the holy places. Simply by walking into one of your temples is like walking into Vṛndāvana and having the association of these great ascetics and sages, because your teachings are (indistinct). (break)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: ...picture?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: (indistinct)
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| Prabhupāda: Similar Deity we'll have in this London Berkshire Palace.
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| Indian man: They don't look like the Deities, they look like boy and girl.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, Kiśora-Kiśorī. (break)
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| Indian man: (indistinct) get a closer look at it.
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, it is very nice. People come to see the Deities in Bombay.
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| Indian man: You brought them from Jaipur?
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. It is very nice. And especially at New Vrindaban, oh, Kṛṣṇa is so attractive.
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| Indian man: But they're all from Jaipur. Jaipur is the place.
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| Devotee (3): We are just packing for sending one set of Jaipur... (break)
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| Prabhupāda: Vṛndāvana also you can get.
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| Indian man: Bombay will be very expensive. I think...
| |
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| Prabhupāda: No, we don't pay anything. We work ourself.
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| Indian man: Oh, I see. Then why not here in Vṛndāvana?
| |
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, we can also have.
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| Indian man: For publications, there should be a central place.
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| Prabhupāda: In our ISKCON Press in New York, our men are working.
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| Indian man: That's fine.
| |
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| Prabhupāda: We don't pay anything outside. We do everything ourself.
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| Indian man: Good, very good.
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| Prabhupāda: Even ordinary repairing, we do ourself. We cannot pay outsider, it is so expensive.
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| Indian man: You should have that press here in Vṛndāvana. All this kind of work, reading, writing, printing, composing, it should be done here in Vṛndāvana. Because this is the proper place...
| |
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| Prabhupāda: We (indistinct) botheration.
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| Indian man: You don't pay (indistinct) in Bombay?
| |
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| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
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| Indian man: Bombay?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: No.
| |
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| Indian man: No (indistinct).
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: No. There the people have a sufficient income. Here the municipality has no income, (indistinct) this all botheration. He cannot stock. Suppose if you want to stock fifty thousand worth paper, unnecessarily you have to pay five percent.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Five to ten percent.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Five to ten percent.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Five to ten percent. Now fifty thousand at five to ten percent, how much? Unnecessarily you have to (indistinct). And to take back that octroi, I have got experience when I was in Allahabad doing business, you know, to take back the octroi, it is hanging. I could not develop my wholesale business due to the octroi. Then I arranged, because I was agent of Dr. Bose's factory. I was disbursing goods direct from Calcutta and sending bill from Allahabad. Octroi botheration I have got experience. You cannot do any large-scale business, the rascal government do not (indistinct) it. Due to this octroi botheration, nobody can do any large-scale business. Either you have to keep your go-down beyond the octroi limit.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: You can do that.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: You can do that here in..., because the octroi limit is very close to your (indistinct). It's just (indistinct).
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Why the government is still keeping this octroi botheration, I do not know. It is old system. Practically in UP and Punjab, this octroi system. In Bihar there is no octroi, in Bengal there is no octroi. I think in Bombay also, Bombay, I mean Maharastra province, there is no octroi. Only in UP and Punjab. There is so much botheration.
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: In Harayana also.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Pañca-draviḍa: Harayana also.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Harayana also. (break)
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: ...Gaurāṅga altar. When he saw that picture, he said, "Why is the door closed in the Guru-Gaurāṅga altar?"
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: There is no closed. No, it is three doors are open. That is not Guru-Gaurāṅga, that is extra.
| |
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| Gurudāsa: Oh, oh, I see.
| |
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| Devotee (3): There is two extra. (break)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Not regularly.
| |
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| Indian man: Not regularly.
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| Prabhupāda: I simply came to see what they are doing.
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| Indian man: Which place did you come?
| |
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| Prabhupāda: Kosi. You were present there.
| |
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| Indian man: I was there. My mother also was there. I took my initiation at Rādhā-kuṇḍa.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: I was initiated at Rādhā-kuṇḍa.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: In that parikrama ?
| |
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| Indian man: In that parikrama .
| |
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| Prabhupāda: And I was initiated in Allahabad after return from parikrama.
| |
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| Indian man: (indistinct) parikrama. That way I am senior by you. (laughs)
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): From Indian people in America, we have learned about that.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): In America, we have learned from Indian people about that. (break)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Why not? You are qualified.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: I do not like to leave, not that I don't like to visit foreign countries. Just now, as a matter of fact, I don't have time to think of anything else except that (indistinct).
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Hm?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Until I complete that work...
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: When?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Did you ever...
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Dr. Rao you know?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: I know Dr. Rao.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: He is a...
| |
| | |
| Indian man: (indistinct)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes, he is a scientist.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: He is a scientist or something. What's he doing now about that machine?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Have you ever continued the correspondence with that heart surgeon?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: No.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: He was not serious?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: No, he admitted. He admitted that "You know better than us."
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: So then why he didn't scientifically try to find out more?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Our process of presentation is different. Their process is different. But they can appreciate that we know better than them. The same example: just like we accept cow dung is pure. Why pure? Because Vedas says. The scientific way is not like that. Is not that?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Yes.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: They must prove by analysis, by chemical analysis. There is difference between the modern scientist and our process of understanding.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Dr. Kapoor has written an article about that, this question. The one that will be published.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: The one that we will publish.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: You have sent?
| |
|
| |
|
| Gurudāsa: Yes. | | Gurudāsa: Yes. |
|
| |
|
| Prabhupāda: Our process: Kṛṣṇa says that He is the Supreme, we accept. Not blindly—because other ācāryas, they also accept. Now some rascal is taking advantage of that statement, "If Kṛṣṇa can say, 'I am the Supreme, I am God,' so I can also say." Māyāvādī philosophy. (break) Swamis could not do anything, he was (indistinct). There are so many. Vivekananda went in 1893, three years before my birth, and what he has done? | | Prabhupāda: The another point is that when we manage these things, there are many ''guṇḍās'' in Vṛndāvana; they will try to create some trouble. Just like . . . (indistinct) . . . you were present? This boy was fighting with one man. You were not present? |
|
| |
|
| Indian man: He returned converted.
| | Gurudāsa: No. What time was it? |
|
| |
|
| Prabhupāda: Huh? | | Prabhupāda: When the minister came. |
| | |
| Indian man: He returned converted. (laughter)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Yes. Instead of converting, he became converted.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): (break) ...was kicked out.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Who is that?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): Swami Satcitananda.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: He was kicked out?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): He was kicked out.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: By?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): By the upper echelon of his... He was... They found he was having sex with his secretary. So she...
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: They are all like that.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): She told her husband, and they told him either he would have to leave or he would have to renounce the title of swami or he would have to lessen the restrictions on brahmacārī. So he refused to do all three, then he joined together (indistinct). This was told to me by a friend of Bhaktijana's named Avery, who was one of... (break)
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Vivekananda.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ [[SB 7.9.45]]. (break)
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Is it all right (indistinct)?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: How many rooms?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Indian man: How many rooms?
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Thirty.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Thirty rooms.
| |
| | |
| Gurudāsa: Small, behind the altar.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: But the temple is very nice. Well kept.
| |
| | |
| Indian man: Well kept.
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: It is colored nicely.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): If he gives to you, what will we make there?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: Huh?
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): If the king gives to you, what will we make there?
| |
| | |
| Prabhupāda: We shall make a guest house for visitors. You are visitor now.
| |
| | |
| Devotee (3): Then you will have two temples in Vṛndāvana?
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| Prabhupāda: Yes. We can take all the temples. (break) ...completely stop. (break) (indistinct), he was a nonsense. This is the tendency in India also.
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| Indian man: Fortunately, it's not so with the great majority of people.
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| Prabhupāda: Not people. I am speaking of the leaders.
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| Indian man: Leaders. The new generation that is now coming up, they are mostly atheists.
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| Prabhupāda: These teachers came with that (indistinct), although they have been (indistinct). (break)
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| Indian man: Top-ranking scientists have begun to realize that they simply don't know anything.
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| Prabhupāda: Hm?
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| Indian man: Modern science, these top-ranking scientists, not the middle ones, the topmost scientists, they all say that "We really do not know anything."
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| Prabhupāda: Yes, that is real (indistinct).
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| Pañca-draviḍa: I was being trained up in this. For one-and-a-half years I was going to MIT in Boston and planning to go into this chemical, chemistry or chemical engineering or metallurgy, something like that. But I could see that actually the people around me, my student body, all the people in the school, they were so maladjusted and miserable that I decided "If this is the result of their scientific training that they are so miserable, I'm going to leave here immediately," and I did so. I got out as quickly as I could. (break) ...see that their training is just simply bringing them misery in life and, therefore, there is no purpose in acquiring such knowledge. And Prabhupāda describes it as being like the jewel on the hood of a snake, more dangerous.
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| Prabhupāda: Once I was invited to speak in that institution, MIT. So I questioned, "Where is your department of technology to understand the difference between dead body and living body?" So I spoke on this. So the students appreciated. After my lecture, they gathered around me. How do you explain? What is that technology, why the man is dead? Science is simply based on this bodily concept. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [[SB 10.84.13]] .
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| Indian man: But about body also they don't know anything.
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| Prabhupāda: That also they have no perfect knowledge.
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| Indian man: About matter they say... (indistinct) has written a book in which... (end)
| | Gurudāsa: No. I was not here at that time. |
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| | Prabhupāda: Sometimes it becomes quarrel. (break) (end) |
