720703 - Conversation and Interview - New York

Conversations by Date, 1972

7207??RC.NY - July ??, 1972

Devotee 1: Prabhupāda, you've said in past lecture that for one who wants to take up bhakti, the work that you're engaged in is not stopped. This has been a source of confusion for myself and maybe other people. Could you sort of delineate what is meant by that?

Devotee 2: (repeating) If you work... you take up bhakti, if your work is not stopped...

Prabhupāda: No, bhakti that what we are defining. Bhakti, definition of bhakti means (Verse ref) That is bhakti. Try to understand what is bhakti. You are following me? Now you come sit. You come forward. You come forward. Try to understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means, we have no other desire than to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna satisfied Kṛṣṇa by fighting. And he became a pure devotee. On the battlefield, Arjuna was hesitating. "What is the use of killing my own men? My family men, my brothers, my nephews, my grandfathers, all on the other side." And you have to fight with them. Fight with them and to kill them. So he was hesitating. He was a warrior, very great warrior, he knew, "When I fight I shall kill them. Although they have come to fight with me, they do not know. But I know. They are my men. So why shall I fight with them? Let them enjoy. I don't want." That was confused feeling. But after understanding Bhagavad-gītā, when he came to the understanding that it is his duty to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, so he sacrificed his own conviction that he would not kill his men. He satisfied Kṛṣṇa. By the same art, he was warrior. So he did not change his position. After reading Bhagavad-gītā, he did not become a Vedantist or went away to Himalaya for yoga practice and give up the fight in battlefield. No. He did not change. But he changed his consciousness. That is bhakti.

At the present moment our consciousness is that we are working for our own sense gratification. When this consciousness will be changed, that we have to work for satisfying Kṛṣṇa, then our lives will be complete. You haven't got to change your work or position. But when you understand that you have to work, not for your personal sense gratification, but for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So there is no question of changing your position. Changing your consciousness, that is the question.

Devotee 1: Can I ask another question?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) is this clear?

Devotee 1: It's very clear.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bhakta' does not mean that you have to change everything. No. He hasn't go to change. Simply he has to change his consciousness. This is bhakti. Change his consciousness in favor of Kṛṣṇa. How I am acting now, I would like this, to do. This is our preoccupation. I'd like. I'd like to eat like this. I'd like to sleep like this. So presentposition, material position means: "My like." And spiritual position means: "Kṛṣṇa's liking." That's all. How you're doing, you think Kṛṣṇa has liked? Material position means "I simply want to satisfy my likes." Therefore, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness means to change this mentality. My like. But to accept the principle of satisfying Kṛṣṇa. (aside: you take? that light ?)

So bhakti means to act according to Kṛṣṇa's likes. Is it clear? It does not mean change of place, change of occupation. Change of mentality. That's bhakti.

Devotee 3: Prabhupāda, what if you're engaged in some occupation that Kṛṣṇa does not like?

Devotee 2: (repeating) What if you're engaged in some occupation that Kṛṣṇa does not like?

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn from Kṛṣṇa's representative. What He likes, what He does not like.

Devotee 2: And we should accordingly give it up immediately?

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to accept spiritual master, yasya prasädäd bhagavat-prasädo. If the spiritual master is pleased, then you know Kṛṣṇa is pleased. If spiritual master is displeased, then you know, that Kṛṣṇa is displeased. You cannot be in contact with Kṛṣṇa at the present moment. In the beginning, therefore you require the help of Kṛṣṇa's representative. To learn whether Kṛṣṇa is pleased or Kṛṣṇa is not pleased. But your business is to please Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee 1: I'm not living in a temple. I'm working and I'm married. So what should my activities be like?

Prabhupāda: You should make your home a temple. What is the difference between temple and home? This is a temple. The next house is a house. This is also made of brick and stone. That is also made of brick and stone. But it is called temple, because here the business is Kṛṣṇa. And that is called house, because there is no Kṛṣṇa business. So if you make your house Kṛṣṇa business, then that is also temple. You do the same thing as the members here are doing in your apartment. In you house, with your wife and children. You work independently, spend independently, but do it for Kṛṣṇa. Then your house is temple. That we want. Here, the temple means, we are simply giving example how to live. So this example can be followed everywhere. Every house can be turned into a temple. Here, everything is Kṛṣṇa centered. Similarly, if in your home you make Kṛṣṇa center, not you center, then your home is also temple.

Devotee lady: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I understand Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme Controller over all activities that happen in this material world.

Devotee 2: (repeating) I understand Kṛṣṇa to be the Supreme Controller of all activities that happen in this material world.

Prabhupāda: Yes

Devotee lady: And so how can Kṛṣṇa allow animal slaughter and other such Maya's activities to take place under His control?

Devotee 2: (repeating) How can Kṛṣṇa allow animal slaughter and other activities of Maya...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa does not allows animal slaughter and such things. Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the Father of every living entity." Just like father. He has got ten sons. Some of them are like animals. But those who are advanced in knowledge, if such sons request the father that, "My other brothers are useless. Let us kill them and eat!" Will the father agree? Will the father say, "Yes. My, these sons are useless, you kill them and eat." Will the father say? So Kṛṣṇa has no sanction for animal killing. We are doing, violating the laws of Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are becoming entangled in sinful activities. We are doing. Kṛṣṇa does not sanction. Kṛṣṇa says, "Ahimsa...(verse link)". These are the qualities to be developed. You cannot be violent. You cannot break anything. This is violation of God's law. Just like in the Bible it is stated: "Thou shalt not kill!" So those who are killing, they are violating the laws of God, and become, I mean to say, liable to be punished. Criminals. So Kṛṣṇa doesn't... The government does not say that you kill your fellow. If you kill, then you will be hanged. Government says this. But when you kill your fellow man, it is your responsibility. It is not the government's responsibility. Similarly, when you kill another fellow living being that is your responsibility. It is not Kṛṣṇa's responsibility.

Devotee 1: Prabhupāda, I've heard different procedures for acquiring remaining Kṛṣṇa conscious. What is the procedure now? It has been changing?

Prabhupāda: Our procedure is we are asking everybody to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa Mantra. That simple thing will help you in every respect. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then gradually, you will be enlightened. No other recipe. And you'll do it yourself. Make association with devotees. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is our procedure.

Devotee 4: In your books, you've explained that we are in the Kali-yuga age. Is the Kali-yuga age coming to a close now?

Prabhupāda: No. It will continue for another 427 thousands of years. The age of Kali-yuga is 432 thousands of years. Out of that, we have passed only five thousand years. The balance is 427 thousands of years. And it will become... condition of society, world, will be worse. Not better, but worse. In the last leg of Kali-yuga, there will be no food grains, no milk, no fruits... A very horrible time. People will kill their own children and eat, just like animals. So the last stage of Kali-yuga will be like hell. So before coming to that stage, better to take Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and go back to Kṛṣṇa. That is our philosophy. Don't wish to wait for the worst thing. The worst things are already happening. It will be still more worse. Instead of waiting up to that time, better, be perfect by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and go back home, back to Godhead. That is our philosophy. Yes.

Devotee 4: As a devotee now who's in the temple, is it good consciousness for me to think that Kṛṣṇa will be presenting me many opportunities to serve, but I would prefer to do a particular thing that I like best, rather than consulting the authorities as to what should be done?

Prabhupāda: Yes. But we have to wait to see the fruits. What should be done? Other than that, we are practically doing. You do accept it. We're talking of Kṛṣṇa, from so many books. We're thinking of Kṛṣṇa. We're chanting of Kṛṣṇa. We're eating Kṛṣṇa's prasäda. Our whole day and night is engaged in Kṛṣṇa's business. This is devotee.

Devotee: (indistinct) ..take our leave.

Prabhupāda: (nods his head) yes. You have seen all our books?

Devotee: Yes, absolutely. They are quite awesome. (intistinct)

Sanyassi: (intistinct) ...college programe (intistinct)

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(end)