[[Category:1972 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:1972-04 - Lectures, Conversations and Letters]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia]]
[[Category:Conversations - Asia, Japan - Tokyo]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia]]
[[Category:Lectures, Conversations and Letters - Asia, Japan - Tokyo]]
[[Category:Audio Files 05.01 to 10.00 Minutes]]
[[Category:1972 - New Audio - Released in December 2015]]
<div style="float:left">[[File:Go-previous.png|link=Category:Conversations - by Date]]'''[[:Category:Conversations - by Date|Conversations by Date]], [[:Category:1972 - Conversations|1972]]'''</div>
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Prabhupāda: ..."Necessity and Chance"?
Pradyumna: "Chance and Necessity."
''(note: the second part of this page is now [[720422 - Conversation with Dai Nippon - Tokyo]]''
Prabhupāda: That is whole theory of the atheist class men. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aparaspara... Aparaspara... Just like one man and woman unites all of a sudden and there is pregnancy. This is chance.
Pradyumna: By sex desire alone the world is created by...
<div class="code">720422R2-TOKYO - April 22, 1972 - 05:47 Minutes</div>
Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam: "Except sex desire, where is the other cause of creation?" That is atheistic theory. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. So all of a sudden two opposite parties become sexually inclined, and by chance there is pregnancy and there is production. This is their theory. There is no plan. It is like this. Because they are creating like that, there is no plan. Then why there is...? Therefore they say, "It is legalized prostitution, marriage. There is no need of marriage."
Pradyumna: Why should there be a plan when it comes...
Prabhupāda: . . . "Necessity and Chance"?
Prabhupāda: This is... This is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa by the son, is necessity, puṇyena narakāt trāyate, because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say, "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance. We say that there is necessity of a putra, or a son. Therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is... "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan? This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan. These rubbish theories are going on and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmyate (?). When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this. "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, that Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men. This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. Nāṭaka, māgadha. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musicians. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them.
Pradyumna: "Chance and Necessity."
Prabhupāda: ...so many assistants. Similarly, God can expand Himself for different... So Lord Buddha appeared to stop animal killing. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. This is Sanskrit. Lord Kṛṣṇa, Keśava, He was very much compassionate on the poor animals. "And now you have appeared as Lord Buddha," buddha-śarīra, "taking the body of Lord Buddha." Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. He was so much compassionate by seeing unnecessarily animal sacrifice. When there was too much animal sacrifice in India, Lord Buddha appeared. And in the Vedas there is recommendation for animal sacrifice in some sacrificial ceremony, not ordinarily. And that sacrifice is meant for testing the power of chanting mantra. An animal would be put into the fire, and it would come again with renewed life. In this way, there is recommendation in the Vedas that some animals... But people misunderstood it. People began to sacrifice, rather, slaughter. At that time Lord Buddha appeared. So we worship Lord Buddha as Kṛṣṇa. You are all Buddhists?
Prabhupāda: That is whole theory of the atheist class men.
Dai Nippon representative: I am Buddhist.
Pradyumna: Ohhh.
Prabhupāda: So Buddhist religion I think animal sacrifice is prohibited, or what? Animal killing? What your religion says about animal killing. Stop or not?
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the ''Bhagavad-gītā. Aparaspara . . . aparaspara'' . . . just like one man and woman unites all of a sudden, and there is pregnancy. This is chance.
Dai Nippon representative: In Buddhism, in my religion, originally it was, prohibited, but now, (laughs) somewhat changed.
Pradyumna: Ohh. By sex desire alone the world is created by . . .
Prabhupāda: So you come to again to the original. Yes. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are teaching no animal killing, no illicit sex, no gambling, no intoxication. All my students, they are strictly following these principles all over the world. They are American, Europeans. So I have got students all over the world. Some of them from Christian, Buddhist also. I have got Japanese, Chinese, my students. Perhaps you have seen one of my students. His name is Bhānu. Formerly what was his name?
Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes. ''Kim anyat kāma-haitukam'' ([[BG 16.8 (1972)|BG 16.8]]). ''Kim anyat kāma-haitukam'': "Except sex desire, where is the other cause of creation?" That is atheistic theory. ''Kim anyat kāma-haitukam''. So all of a sudden two opposite parties become sexually inclined, and by chance there is pregnancy and there is production.
Sudāmā: Bruce Enimoto.
This is their theory. There is no plan. It is like this. Because they are creating like that, there is no plan. Then why there is . . .? Therefore they say: "It is legalized prostitution, marriage. There is no need of marriage."
Prabhupāda: Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: Oh.
Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: "Why should we go under legal?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Thank you very much. (two men speak in Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: In our religion also, the priests are vegetarian, but it is not for all.
Prabhupāda: Only priests? Only priests?
Dai Nippon representative: Priesthood. Priesthood. (Japanese) It has somewhat changed now.
Prabhupāda: We are all priests because we are preaching. All my students and myself, we are preaching. We are on the priestly level. So our philosophy is ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [[SB 1.2.13]] . Everyone has got some professional or occupational duty. Just like you are printer. We are preachers. Somebody is something else. Everyone has got different occupational duty. So our philosophy is that it doesn't matter what business you are doing, but see that your life is successful. That is our philosophy. And how our life can become successful? Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [[SB 1.2.13]] . If you can preach Lord Buddha or Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. I have already explained Lord Buddha is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So if Lord Buddha is satisfied, then your life is successful. It doesn't matter what you are doing, but by your action Lord Buddha must be satisfied. Just like your assistants. Their business is to satisfy you. Whatever they may do, it doesn't matter. If you are satisfied, their business is successful.
Japanese devotee: Your Divine Grace? I would like to explain the background between your activities and (indistinct) (Japanese)
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: After I asked Mr. Karandhara if he would like your organization to publish more and more books, he said yes, and in order to improve our service...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dai Nippon representative: In order to makes ourselves better, you know...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is success.
Dai Nippon representative: And Mr. Karandhara give us suggestion that Dai Nippon would open a liaison office in Los Angeles in order to save time and in order to make a good communication.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dai Nippon representative: And our president would like to hear of your opinion or comment on that suggestion.
Prabhupāda: So how do you think, that suggestion. What is your idea?
Dai Nippon representative: (Japanese) He would like to see our liaison office in Los Angeles... (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: So Karandhara, you speak.
Karandhara: Mr. Sumoto(?) and I already spoke at length about this and we came to the conclusion(?) that it would save us so much time in our communication. In that way we could expedite all of our work. So we were hoping... We were very enthusiastic about the idea of opening an office there.
Prabhupāda: That's nice.
Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct) The details were discussed already. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Divine Grace, please allow that we are, we getting to the businesslike (laughter) conversation but...
Prabhupāda: One thing I shall request you, that our missionary activities, we are not exactly businessmen. You see? Our only idea is these books are published for missionary activities. So exactly we are not business power. So I will request your chairman that even sometimes you find something, discrepancies, you don't mind it, because we are not strictly businessmen. Yes. But we are very sincere. We shall reciprocate very sincerely. But sometimes we are not strictly like businessmen. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: What Mr. Tajima(?) would like to tell you, that he is also businessman. So our talking is getting to be businesslike. So please allow him. But if we send one liaison officer in Los Angeles, we need some expenditure over there. You see? So we, Mr. Tajima(?) expects you to increase the publishing of your books more and more.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, oh yes. That we shall do, certainly. That is certain. We are very much enthusiastic to see more publication, more publication. We take this publication work as big drum. You know with clay drum? So this is big drum. When we play drum, it is resounded within some quarters. But this drum is going from country to country. So it is bigger drum. (Japanese)
Karandhara: Printing of the books is our most, one of our most important activities. And if you will study our, the society, ISKCON society, you will see that it is growing very fast, more and more growing now all over the world. The publishing of our books is growing also. Just like last year we had so many jobs, this year so many jobs. Next year at least twice as many jobs again. Your work will continue to increase more and more. (Japanese)
Prabhupāda: I have explained Kṛṣṇa, as good as Lord Buddha. (Japanese) You don't go to India to see the birth place of Lord Buddha? You do not go? In Kapila-vastu. Kapila-vastu, on the valley of Himalaya. Lord Buddha was prince.
Dai Nippon representative: Yes. Yes. He was.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So many Buddhists pilgrims, they go to see. And there is one stūpa, stūpa. Buddhist stūpa. What do you call in Japanese, that dome?
Dai Nippon representative: Dome, yes.
Prabhupāda: So Sāketa(?)in Madhya Pradesh. So that is considered... Buddhist pilgrims, they go. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: I understand that Buddhists can eat pork only.
Prabhupāda: But originally, Mr. Chairman said that they did not. Originally it is prohibited. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Originally Buddha did like to eat pork.
Prabhupāda: Buddha?
Dai Nippon representative: He ate pork, and then he became sick and died.
Prabhupāda: But in our India... Of course, Lord Buddha was kṣatriya. The kṣatriyas were allowed to eat meat by hunting.
Dai Nippon representative: Hunting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because king—the kṣatriya means royal order-they, sometimes they had to kill somebody. If somebody is criminal, "Cut off his head." So in order to become powerful in cutting head, so they had to practice hunting. Yes. This hunting was allowed to the kṣatriyas. There are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. Four divisions means intelligent class, administrative class, mercantile class, and laborer class. So these kṣatriyas, they are royal order, giving protection to the citizens. And the brāhmaṇas giving good advice to the royal order. And the mercantile class, they work under the regulation of the royal order. And the worker class, they give simply service. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Year and a half ago, Mr. Tajima, he lose his son, twenty-eight years old.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I heard. In some accident?
Dai Nippon representative: By traffic accident.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dai Nippon representative: And since then Mr. Tajima has been very sad...
Prabhupāda: Religious.
Dai Nippon representative: ...because of his loving son was dead.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was the eldest son?
Dai Nippon representative: Twenty-eight years. He was youngest son (indistinct). And so how do you think about death from Kṛṣṇa? How do you value death? How he can relieved from such sadness?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Karandhara: He's asking how can he be relieved from such sadness when his son has died? How do we evaluate death?
Prabhupāda: Oh. Yes. So our program is that, as I have already explained, the success of everything depends how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. So if you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then whatever you want, He will give you, benedict. I will give you one instance. It is stated in Kṛṣṇa Book . Kṛṣṇa was a student of Sāndīpani Muni. So when Kṛṣṇa finished His education, it is the system that the disciple gives some, I mean to say, reward, presentation to the spiritual master, because he has educated. So the disciple requests his spiritual master, "Now I have finished my education. I am going home." Formerly the student used to live with the spiritual master. "So how can I serve you?" So at that time the spiritual master, whatever he wants, the disciple will supply. So in the case of Kṛṣṇa, the teacher knew that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So when Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma asked his teacher, "How can I satisfy you?" so they requested, "My dear boys, I lost my child very young. If you kindly bring them, then I shall be very much pleased." So Kṛṣṇa went underneath the sea and brought his son back. This incident is there. So my point is that whatever you want, Kṛṣṇa will give you. You try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. That's all. (Japanese)
Prabhupāda: (aside:) What is this? Japanese tea? I see. Water? Cold water. Ice water. So you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, and you will be blessed and your son will be blessed. You pray to Kṛṣṇa. Wherever he may be, he will be happy. You believe in incarnation, next birth? Next birth?
Karandhara: Reincarnation?
Prabhupāda: Reincarnation? Yes. So your son, he must have taken some body somewhere. So if you pray to Kṛṣṇa, wherever he may be, he will be happy. He will be happy. How many sons?
Dai Nippon representative: This is my only son now.
Prabhupāda: Be blessed. He is youngest. He was oldest?
Dai Nippon representative: No. My younger brother also died. My younger brother.
Prabhupāda: Oh, your younger brother. Oh, you are eldest.
Dai Nippon representative: He is my son.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I can understand. How many sons you have got?
Dai Nippon representative: Three.
Prabhupāda: Three. That is nice. And daughters?
Dai Nippon representative: Two boy and one daughter.
Prabhupāda: Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ [[BG 9.26]] . Kṛṣṇa says, "Anyone gives Me patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ..." Patram means leaf. Puṣpam means flower. Patraṁ puṣpaṁ. Phalam, phalam means fruit. And toyam means water. So if anyone gives with faith and love to Kṛṣṇa patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyam, He eats and drinks. And if Kṛṣṇa eats and drinks our offering, then our life is successful. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Divine Grace? Meija Tajima(?) was vegetarian too. From eighteen years old up to twenty years, for two years he did eat only vegetables.
Prabhupāda: So now?
Dai Nippon representative: No. (laughter) Since Mr. Tajima lost his son, he has been reluctant to eat beef or meat. He doesn't like meat.
Prabhupāda: We have got so many nice vegetable preparations. We prepare from milk casein with nice preparations. If you want some of our assistants will teach you. So I think instead of eating meat, if you eat that preparation, it is tasting almost like meat, but it is strictly milk preparation. That is as much nutritious also, full of vitamins. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: Even you catch cold, you don't go to, you don't consult with doctor, medical doctor.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We avoid doctor's bill. Yes. As far as possible. And we, because we are vegetarian, hardly we get sick. If you take strictly vegetarian food, you will avoid so many doctor's bills. Yes. Because our constitution is meant for eating vegetables. Just like this teeth. This is not meant for eating meat. It is meant for eating fruits, vegetables, grains. Our constitution is made like that. In India still 80% population [break] ...grains, milk products, vegetables, fruits, and sugar. You can make hundreds of nice palatable dishes. Sometimes we invite Mr. Tajima. You accept our invitation. You'll see. The other day I invited your assistant. (Japanese)
Dai Nippon representative: There are some special vegetables for the Buddhists also. Vegetable meat.
Prabhupāda: Vegetable meat?
Dai Nippon representative: Vegetable meat for Buddhists.
Prabhupāda: Oh, vegetable meat. Yes. Yes, Buddhist, I know that. They are strictly vegetarian, those who are strict followers. So now we have to go to some train?
Karandhara: Are there any other points?
Dai Nippon representative: (indistinct)
Karandhara: Yes. (indistinct) ...on this point. Is there any...?
Dai Nippon representative: Yes, well, at present also, (indistinct) we are going to open our liaison office in Los Angeles.
Karandhara: Yes. Have you heard from Mr. Oyage yet? (indistinct)
Dai Nippon representative: Yes. I think he has to come in Sunday. So to be...
Karandhara: Yes, he's probably meeting with Jayatīrtha. (indistinct)
Dai Nippon representative: Other ways we are quite satisfied.
Pradyumna: "Why should there be a plan when it comes . . ."
Karandhara: Oh. Thank you. We are also very satisfied.
Prabhupāda: This is . . . this is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is, ''putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna'', offering ''piṇḍa'' by the son, is necessity, ''puṇyena narakāt trāyate'', because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say: "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance.
Prabhupāda: You started this business? I am asking your father. (Japanese)
We say that there is necessity of a ''putra'', or a son; therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is . . . "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan?
Dai Nippon representative: This factory(?) is going to have ninety-seventh year anniversary. And Mr. Tajima has been working for this company since...
This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan.
Prabhupāda: What is his age?
These rubbish theories are going on, and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. (laughs) You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? ''Eraṇḍāpi dhūmayate''. When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor.
Dai Nippon representative: ...twenty-seven years old, for forty-three years.
Devotee: Castor
Prabhupāda: He is in connection. So by God's grace he is a successful businessman. Nice. So I take your permission. (end)
Prabhupāda: Castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this (gesticulates). "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, George (sic) Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. Just see. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men.
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This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. ''Nāṭaka, vidagadha''. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musician. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them. (break) (end)
Prabhupāda: That is whole theory of the atheist class men.
Pradyumna: Ohhh.
Prabhupāda: That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aparaspara . . . aparaspara . . . just like one man and woman unites all of a sudden, and there is pregnancy. This is chance.
Pradyumna: Ohh. By sex desire alone the world is created by . . .
Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8). Kim anyat kāma-haitukam: "Except sex desire, where is the other cause of creation?" That is atheistic theory. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. So all of a sudden two opposite parties become sexually inclined, and by chance there is pregnancy and there is production.
This is their theory. There is no plan. It is like this. Because they are creating like that, there is no plan. Then why there is . . .? Therefore they say: "It is legalized prostitution, marriage. There is no need of marriage."
Pradyumna: Oh.
Prabhupāda: "Why should we go under legal?"
Pradyumna: "Why should there be a plan when it comes . . ."
Prabhupāda: This is . . . this is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is, putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa by the son, is necessity, puṇyena narakāt trāyate, because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say: "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance.
We say that there is necessity of a putra, or a son; therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is . . . "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan?
This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan.
These rubbish theories are going on, and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. (laughs) You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmayate. When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor.
Devotee: Castor
Prabhupāda: Castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this (gesticulates). "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, George (sic) Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. Just see. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men.
This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. Nāṭaka, vidagadha. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musician. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them. (break) (end)
