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720118 - Conversation - Jaipur

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His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

720118R1-JAIPUR - January 18, 1972 - 34:23 Minutes

(poor audio)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . unpopularity. There was monarchy. The kings were very responsible. Therefore the kings were known as rājarṣi. Rājarṣi, rāja ṛṣi. Rājarṣi, this is compound word . . . (indistinct) . . . king supervising the administration of the state, still his character was just like a ṛṣi, a saintly person, great sage. That was the qualification of the king. Therefore . . .

Also Vedic civilization, even up to Mahārāja Parīkṣit, the government was monarchy. At the present moment, practically all monarchical state is abolished. Even there is some monarchy . . . formerly . . . (indistinct) . . . just like in England, the Queen, she is powerless. Actually, the Queen has no power. People have taken away the power.

Here also there is the . . . (indistinct) . . . Mahārāja, Jaipur. Actually, they are the owner of the state, Jaipur state, the old state, at least five hundred years old, this state . . . (indistinct) . . . it is the kingdom of Mahārāja Mansingh, former Mansingh, who was commander-in-chief of Emperor Akbar . . . (indistinct) . . . but now they have no power. The people have taken away the power.

But according to Vedic civilization, this people's government is not sanctioned. Democracy. Democracy is not sanctioned. But in the Kali-yuga, nobody will be a standard king. Anybody, by hook and crook, if he captures the royal throne, so he becomes king. That is predicted in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, only the kṣatriyas were the kings.

But at the present moment, because the institution of varṇāśrama-dharma is topsy-turvy, practically no more existing, everyone in this age is calculated to be śūdras. So therefore, there is struggle, who will capture the power. We see practically in political field, the people are interested for capturing the power, but they are not interested . . . formality. So they put their manifesto before the election that, "We shall serve you in this way and that way," but because they are simply busy to keep their position in the political power . . .

Just like recently there was fight between two political parties, and represented by two big men, Vishvanath Das and Hare Krishna Mahatattva. Both of them learned men, lawyers, but they are fighting like cats and dogs. So formerly, therefore, there was no such thing as democracy. A king, there must be one king responsible. But he was guided by the ministers and learned brāhmaṇas, sages. There was a body to guide him, to train him. Therefore, the monarchical government was perfect.

Now here is a story of Vena Mahārāja. His father was a very . . . (indistinct) . . . it is usual, very nice king. But his son, this Vena, born of a bad mother, he was not good. He was killing unnecessarily animals, even men, because he was prince. So he would play with his friends, and if there is any fault on the part of his friends, he will at once kill.

And because he was prince, son of the king, nobody could take any step. So the king was very much perturbed within his mind how to train this boy to become future king. But he was not successful. He was not successful. Therefore, being too much depressed and disgusted, he left home. He left home, let the things take place as it is. So:

vijñāya nirvidya gataṁ patiṁ prajāḥ
vicikyur urvyām atiśoka-kātarā
yathā nigūḍhaṁ puruṣaṁ kuyoginaḥ
(SB 4.13.48)

So purohita. It appears . . . purohita means the priestly order. In Europe also, this same Vedic civilization was everywhere. In the Middle Age, the priestly class used to control the king. Was it not? And the King John or . . . that he protested against the priestly order, and he inaugurated the Protestant Christianity from England.

Devotee: Henry.

Prabhupāda: Henry. Henry, yes. So he revolted, not being controlled, revolted against being controlled by the priestly order. Here also we see, purohita amātya-suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ. When the king left, then the priestly order, purohita—purohita means priestly order, amātya, amātya means ministers; and suhṛd-gaṇādayaḥ, suhṛt means those who are willing welfare of the state—they became very much aggrieved that the king has left.

alakṣayantaḥ padavīṁ prajāpater
hatodyamāḥ pratyupasṛtya te purīm
ṛṣīn sametān abhivandya sāśravo
nyavedayan paurava bhartṛ-viplavam
(SB 4.13.49)

So they were afraid of some political convulsion. So although the son was worthless, so they decided that "Let us make him king. Otherwise, without king, how the state can go on?" So:

bhṛgv-ādayas te munayo
lokānāṁ kṣema-darśinaḥ
goptary asati vai nṟṇāṁ
paśyantaḥ paśu-sāmyatām
(SB 4.14.1)

Because there was no king, so people became always like . . . almost like animals. Paśu-sāmyatām. Paśu means animal, and sāmyatām means equal. So when there is a political, I mean to say, less strong political situation, not very strong government, at that time a class of men take advantage.

Just like in Calcutta. Because the government was very lenient, not very strong, a demonic class of men took advantage of it, and they began to create atrocities and fearfulness in Calcutta city. We have seen, practically people are not going out after evening, they are always staying in fearful state. Nobody knows whether he will come back home again when he goes out of his home on the street. People are so much disturbed. So in the absence of strong king, these people take advantage and create disturbances. That is always there.

So that happened. The people became paśu-sāmyatām. Therefore, the sages called a meeting of all respectable ministers and saintly persons and Brāhmiṇs and decided, "Let us make this boy king." So he was enthroned. But because he was demonic, he was very strong. So as soon as he became king, all the bad elements of the state, they stopped their nefarious activity. Śrutvā nṛpāsana-gataṁ venam atyugra-śāsanam. They knew that, "This king is very strong, and for any little criminal action, he will strike very severely." So the bad elements, they subsided.

śrutvā nṛpāsana-gataṁ
venam atyugra-śāsanam
nililyur dasyavaḥ sadyaḥ
sarpa-trastā ivākhavaḥ
(SB 4.14.3)

Ivākhavaḥ. Just like on the rats, they understand that the snake is there, so (chuckles) they go inside the ground and they disappear. Sometimes rats, everyone knows, everywhere, as soon as the house is very old, there are many rats.

And as soon as there are rats, the serpent will come, the snake will come. So to keep the rats, that is also very dangerous. So one after another, the nature's arrangement is there. So the example is given that nililyur dasyavaḥ sadyaḥ sarpa-trastā ivākhavaḥ.

sa ārūḍha-nṛpa-sthāna
unnaddho 'ṣṭa-vibhūtibhiḥ
avamene mahā-bhāgān
stabdhaḥ sambhāvitaḥ svataḥ
(SB 4.14.4)

In this way, when he became very much powerful, he began to neglect the orders of the great sages, Brāhmiṇs and respectable gentlemen. He became very much upstart.

evaṁ madāndha utsikto
niraṅkuśa iva dvipaḥ
paryaṭan ratham āsthāya
kampayann iva rodasī
(SB 4.14.5)

So he became so strong that when he was travelling in the state, everyone was trembling. So very strong king. In this way, when he becomes too much powerful, then he began to preach atheism. And that is the way. The rākṣasī, the demonic way is that.

If a demon becomes powerful—just like nowadays it is going on—some way or other if somebody becomes powerful, he doesn't care for the śāstric injunction or religion or God. They don't care for it. Just like there are many instances, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, like that. So he also became like that. Then he began to order:

na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ
na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit
iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ
bherī-ghoṣeṇa sarvaśaḥ
(SB 4.14.6)

By bugle announcement. In your country, I do not know, maybe. It is here in India still existing that if some public announcement has to be done, one takes a drum or bugle, he stands in one place and bugles or beats the drum. People then gathered, they announce something that, "This will be done. This is the order of the king or the state." Is there any such system in your country?

Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Formerly there was. A town crier.

Prabhupāda: Trumpeting.

Śyāmasundara: They call it town crier.

Prabhupāda: Town crier. Yes, yes.

Śyāmasundara: He would go around and announce.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the town crier. So the town crier began to preach that, "No more any sacrifice or yajña. Stop all this nonsense. (chuckles) No more Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra." (chuckles) Yes, they . . . just like in Russia we are afraid, of China, yes, they will immediately arrest.

So this declaration was there, public. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na: no charity, no more charity. Just like government at the present moment, they are allowing charity still, but most of the portion of the income they take away by income tax, so that one may not have any power to give in charity. So at the present moment, the government does not declare that charity is illegal, but that time is coming very soon, very soon. As soon as there will be Communist government . . . our Indira Gandhi is cooperating with the Russian, and as soon as she is under the control of the Russian, gradually Communism will be introduced. People are afraid of this attempt by Indira Gandhi.

So anyway, these such things were existing formerly also, but they were not very common affair. Sometimes after many, many years, if a bad king would come . . . throughout the history, at least in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, we find this one king only, Vena, who declared the sacrifice, charity, illegal. Na yaṣṭavyaṁ na dātavyaṁ na hotavyaṁ dvijāḥ kvacit (SB 4.14.6), by the Brāhmiṇs. Just like the other day it was published in the paper that this India spiritual, this is a myth. They are also declaring. Iti nyavārayad dharmaṁ. So execution of religious principle was forbidden, nyavārayat. Bherī-ghoṣeṇa. Bherī means bugle, by bugle, sarvaśaḥ, everywhere.

venasyāvekṣya munayo
durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam
vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ
kṛpayocuḥ sma satriṇaḥ
(SB 4.14.7)

So all the great sages and saintly person, Brāhmiṇs, they assembled together and began to consider, "Now what to be done? This rascal king has declared like this and making things hellish. What to do?"

This is the problem of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that people are becoming more and more godless. And one may think that unnecessarily we have taken this responsibility to make them God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. You see. There was no need to make this propaganda all over the world. But actually, the saintly persons have concern. Just like the other day I told you, Prahlāda Mahārāja was concerned that these rascals, for temporary so-called . . . (break) . . . people are engaged unnecessarily to work very hard day and night, the capitalist, the worker. Big, big factory, iron factory, in so many factories, unnecessarily. So Prahlāda Mahārāja was concerned. He was living—his father was a demon—in the demonic state.

So this is natural. If one saintly person do not be disturbed by people's unhappiness, he is not saintly person. He is not saintly person. If he is simply satisfied that, "I have got a temple, I am getting good income. Let me eat and sleep . . ." No. My Guru Mahārāja condemned this process. He said that to earn livelihood by showing some temple and collecting money and eat and sleep, better to become a sweeper in the street and earn his livelihood instead of earning livelihood in this so-called spiritual way. So practically all over the world a class of men, a priestly class of men, they have made it a means of earning livelihood, temple achara, taking money from people and enjoying, and then become drunkard. As in your country, five thousand drunkard priests were consolidated in a hospital for treatment. Just see. They're getting money.

So there is possibility, we are opening temples, public is contributing. But if we become easy-goer, "Now money is coming, let us eat sumptuously and eat, and eat and sleep, and if possible drink also . . ." But of course, we are restricting. But naturally when become . . . when one man becomes idle, "Idle brain is the devil's workshop." So if he can get . . . just like rich man's son, they become. Everyone has got experience in every country. When he has no difficulty to get money, then what he will do? He will simply drink or invent some means of intoxication, naked dance. This is the . . .

So they became very much perturbed. Venasyāvekṣya durvṛttasya viceṣṭitam, vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma . . . kṛpāya, they were very much compassionate. They cannot see. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Therefore, Vaiṣṇava is always unhappy by seeing others' unhappiness. They know how they are going to hell. Just like any gentleman will be aggrieved when they pass on the Bowery Street, seeing their fallen condition. So if any gentleman can become unhappy by seeing such condition of people, what to speak of saintly persons, who are supposed to be responsible for spiritual uplift . . .

Devotee: Ahhhh!

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Devotee: A monkey. No one is guarding. They are probably taking . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage that, "These people have got some eatables." Therefore Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow and lion, the next birth is human life.

So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat: people, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons become compassionate with the people, that they are both ways.

Actually, at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time, bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga it will go on, continue, and more and more people will be unhappy.

arājaka-bhayād eṣa
kṛto rājātad-arhaṇaḥ
tato 'py āsīd bhayaṁ tv adya
kathaṁ syāt svasti dehinām
(SB 4.14.9)

"If people are disturbed in this way, both ways, from the state side and from the rogue side, then how they will live peacefully?" Just like we sometimes say that if the politicians and the statesmen they are so irresponsible, fighting amongst themselves to capture the power, where is the time for them to think of people's welfare? They cannot. It is not possible. The same thing happened there. Tato api āsīd bhayaṁ tu adya kathaṁ syāt svasti dehinām. Svasti means peacefulness, dehinām, of the embodied living entities, dehinām.

aher iva payaḥ-poṣaḥ
poṣakasyāpy anartha-bhṛt
venaḥ prakṛtyaiva khalaḥ
(SB 4.14.10)

Nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ. So Vena, here it is mentioned, sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. His mother's name was Sunīthā. She was also daughter of a very bad king, and she inherited the father's quality. And the son also inherited the mother's quality. This is also true. The son inherits mother's quality, and the daughter inherits father's quality.

So because the grandfather of Vena Mahārāja was a bad man, his daughter, means Sunīthā, the mother of Vena, she became bad. And naturally her son, Vena, she (he) became bad. The father was very nice, good king. But because the mother was not good, the son became bad. Here is the evidence. Sunīthā-garbha-sambhavaḥ. Sunīthā. His mother's name was Sunīthā. Because he was born in the womb of Sunīthā, a bad woman, therefore, he . . . nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ: he has been elected as the king to protect the citizens. Instead of protecting, he is disturbing.

nirūpitaḥ prajā-pālaḥ
sa jighāṁsati vai prajāḥ
tathāpi sāntvayemāmuṁ
nāsmāṁs tat-pātakaṁ spṛśet
(SB 4.14.11)

Now there is another saintly compassion: "Never mind he has done so much mischievous activities, this king; still it is our duty to go to him and give him good advice, so that all these disturbances may be stopped and people will become happy." Just mark this point that formerly the government could not be irresponsible, because the saintly person, they are always thinking welfare of the people in general. Mark this point.

So therefore, a saintly person duty is to protect the prajā, the citizen, in a system so that they may become happy both materially and spiritually. This is one of the duty of the saintly person. Not that, "Let me go to Himalaya and press my nose, and I become liberated." This is not saintly person. This is not saintly person. You see? Saintly person means they should be interested with the public welfare, real public welfare. And public welfare means every citizens should be Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then they will be happy, both materially and spiritually. My point is that our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not selfish movement. It is the most philanthropic movement. But people, in the name of philanthropic movement, generally, because they are not actually saintly persons, they collect money and live.

Just like we can say frankly that the Ramakrishna Mission, they are collecting money, huge money, from your country, here also, to mitigate the sufferings of the poor people, daridra-nārāyaṇa seva. But actually you see that how many poverty-stricken people are there in India. And if you go to the Ramakrishna Mission, you will see all the svāmīs, they are living in royal order. You see? This is going on. But people are still fool that . . . but your American people now, they are questioning. That one svāmī, Nikhilananda, he told me personally that the American people now questioning that, "You collect money for feeding the poor, but when we go to India, we see so many people lying down on the street." So they are questioning. Naturally there will be question.

So . . . (someone enters) Ohhh, Hare Kṛṣṇa! (chuckles) So our Jaipur party is becoming stronger and stronger. So what news from Delhi? (end)