701219 - Lecture SB 06.01.34-39 - Surat
Prabhupāda: There are so many ladies.
Guest (1): And there are so many English devotees.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest (1): English devotees.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi) So the constables of Yamarāja, they are describing the bodily features of the Viṣṇudūta. You can have an idea of the Viṣṇuloka, or Vaikuṇṭhaloka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky. You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is... All together, that is one-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky. The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled... Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant. Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantāya kalpate. The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām ( Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) .
sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ
sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ
dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-
śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ
This is another description of the feature. Sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ. In the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, the inhabitants are always young, just like Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu is always young. There is no old age. Old age is here in this material world because this material body becomes old, not the spirit soul. Spirit soul is always fresh. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre BG 2.20 . So they are describing that "You are... You look all just very young." And sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ: "And you are beautifully embodied with four hands." Sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ. (aside:) What is that? Dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-śaṅkha-cakrāmbuja-śriyaḥ: "And exactly like Viṣṇu, you have got dhanur, bows; and śaṅkha, conchshell; cakra, disc; gadā, club; and ambuja, padma, lotus flower. Everyone." That means everyone in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, they are exactly like the bodily feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Nārāyaṇa. This is called sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberation. This liberation, to have the same bodily feature like Nārāyaṇa, is called sārūpya, "the form exactly like Viṣṇu." Sārūpya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberations: sāyujya, sālokya, sārūpya, sārṣṭi, sāmīpya BG 2.20 .
So the Māyāvādī philosophers, they prefer sāyujya, to merge into the existence of impersonal existence. A living entity can live, can remain in the Brahman effulgence as a particle of shining. Just like there are many molecular particles in the sunshine, similarly, the living entities also can cluster together and live as a small particle of spiritual shining, and that is called brahma-sāyujya-mukti. But that kind of existence is subjected to fall down again.
ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho...
Because the living entities, they want varieties of enjoyment, but in that impersonal existence there is no varieties of enjoyment, therefore, when they desire varieties of enjoyment, they have come to this material world. So even they merge into the effulgence of brahmajyoti, there is cause; there is chance of falling. Not all. Some of them may go to the planets, but there is chance.
sarve ca nūtna-vayasaḥ
sarve cāru-caturbhujāḥ
dhanur-niṣaṅgāsi-gadā-
diśo vitimirālokāḥ
kurvantaḥ svena tejasā
kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya
"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuṇṭha. Therefore in the Upaniṣad it is said that in the Vaikuṇṭhaloka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon. The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self-effulgent.
diśo vitimirālokāḥ
kurvantaḥ svena tejasā
kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya
"You are so brilliant, you appear to be very enlightened and coming from some planets." Because they had no exactly idea what kind of planet they live. They are simply suggesting that "You must be coming from some very exalted planet. But why you are interfering with our business?"
Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya. Dharma-pāla. Yamarāja's another name is Dharmarāja or Dharmapāla. He is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the śāstras. Brahmā is one authority, Lord Śiva is one authority, and Nārada is one authority. Then Manu is one authority, Prahlāda Mahārāja is authority, Bali Mahārāja is authority, Śukadeva Gosvāmī is authority. So similarly, Yamarāja is also authority. They are authority who know exactly what is God, or Kṛṣṇa, and they can direct. Therefore śāstra says you have to follow the authority. Otherwise it is not possible. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ CC Madhya 17.186 . You cannot understand the path of religion by your mental speculation. Dharmāṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam CC Madhya 17.186 . Dharma, religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No ordinary man can enact dharma. Therefore there is dharma-viparya. Real dharma, actual dharma, is to abide by the words of the Supreme Lord. That is dharma. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ. That is dharma, simply to surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise it is not dharma. Man-made dharma is no dharma. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. You cannot manufacture religion. But nowadays it has become fashion. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. Therefore there is dharma-viparya. So one should know that dharma means the laws given by God. That is dharma. And such dharma, or the path of dharma, is strictly followed by these mahājanas. Just like Brahmā, Lord Śiva, Nārada, Manu, Kapila, Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva who enunciated sāṅkhya philosophy... Svayaṁbhūr nāradaḥ śaṁbhuḥ kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ, prahlādo bhīṣmaḥ CC Madhya 17.186 . Bhīṣmadeva is also authority. You know Bhīṣmadeva, the grandfather of the Pāṇḍavas. He is also authority. Prahlāda, Bhīṣma... Bali Mahārāja is also authority. So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise there is no possibility of understanding what is religion, what is God. This... Our, this sampradāya, Madhva-Gauḍīya sampradāya, they are following the authorities of Lord Brahmā and Nārada. Similarly, there is another sampradāya, Rudra-sampradāya. Rudra-sampradāya. And there is another sampradāya coming from Lakṣmījī, Śrī-sampradāya, Rāmānuja. So we have to accept religious principles from the leaders of the sampradāyas. Otherwise it is useless. Sampradāya-vihīnā ye mantrās te viphalā matāḥ: "If you do not accept mantra initiation from the disciplic succession of the sampradāya, then it will be useless." Sampradāya-vihīnā ye. So people are manufacturing religion without any reference to these authorities.
So diśo vitimirālokāḥ kurvantaḥ svena tejasā. Svena: "By your own effulgence you are dissipating the darkness, all directions. You are so bright, brilliant." Kim arthaṁ dharma-pālasya: "Oh, we can understand that you are not ordinary living entities. You are coming from some exalted planet. What business you have got to interfere with our business?" Dharma-pālasya.
śrī-śuka uvāca
ity ukte yamadūtais te
vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ
tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ
When they were addressed by the assistants of Yamarāja, then the representative of Vāsudeva, vāsudevokta-kāriṇaḥ, those who are followers of the order of Vāsudeva... Representative... (aside:) Again you have to stand, please. Tān pratyūcuḥ prahasyedaṁ megha-nirhrādayā girā. Now, the Viṣṇudūta, they began to speak in a very grave language, just like resounding the cloud. (commentary:) Kim anya-lokasyānyasya prakāśa yat tu tathā bhūta diśaḥ kurvantaḥ bhavatam anuṣitaṁ yam ity āhuḥ kim artham ity āha (?). Indirectly, the Yamadūtas said that "You are so exalted, so it is not very good for you to interfere with our business." They politely submitted. And... (commentary:) Ato daṇḍyādaṇḍya-jñāna-śūnyā iti śaura evākṣnod dhiyā dharma-rājasya kiṅkarā ity anvitaṁ vadanti viṣayena prahasya tān pratyūcuḥ (?).
Now, Śrīdhāra Swami is commenting why they were smiling, these Viṣṇudūtas, because the Yamadūtas were criticizing, "Why you are interfering?" The Yamadūtas did not know that whatever action is taken by the representative of Viṣṇu, they are not, I mean to say, unnecessarily interference. They are actual fact. Therefore they are smiling, that "These Yamadūtas, without knowing our position, they are trying to criticize us." So they were smiling. Prahasya, prahasya. Just like if a child speaks something to a learned man, he smiles. So Viṣṇudūta were smiling, hearing the Yamadūtas. Meghasya eva nirhrāda hānir yasya prayātaḥ: (?) "They began to speak in grave voice, as if the thundering cloud."
śrī-viṣṇudūta uvāca
yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya
yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ
brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ
"You are claiming to be representative of Dharmarāja, Yamarāja." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. So Viṣṇudūta knows that they are representative. So he challenged. The Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas, that "You are accusing us that we are interfering with your business which is entrusted unto you by the Dharmarāja, the maintainer of dharma. Would you kindly explain what is dharma and what is adharma ?" It is very intelligent answer. Yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya: "If you are actually representative."
Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that yei kṛṣṇa tattva-vettā sei guru haya: CC Madhya 8.128 "If anyone is representing as guru, he must know Kṛṣṇa." He must know. Kṛṣṇa cannot be known, but at least... Just like Kṛṣṇa says, yo jānāti tattvataḥ, that... One must know Kṛṣṇa in fact, tattvataḥ, in truth. He can become guru. Otherwise, guru is not a, so cheap post that everyone can become guru. Similarly, here is the challenge, that "If you are representative of Dharmarāja, you must explain what is dharma and what is adharma ." That should be the criterion of test. Not that everyone should be accepted as religious, everyone should be accepted as guru. This ignorance of the population has created so many nonsense as representing as guru and dharma-jñā. No. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta CC Madhya 8.128 . The Vedic injunction says, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam, śābde pare ca niṣnātam. One is advised... First of all, who will accept a guru? Guru is not a plaything, that "I must have a guru, and I will never care to obey his orders, but because it is a fashion to keep a guru, I shall keep a guru." That kind of guru is useless, and that kind of disciple is also useless. One must seek after a guru—when? When he is inquisitive to understand the transcendental knowledge. Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. It is not a fashion. It should be very serious. One who is very much eager to understand transcendental knowledge, śreya uttamam... Jijñāsuḥ śreya. Śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. There are two kinds of paths. Preyaḥ means immediate satisfaction or sense gratification, and preyaḥ means spiritual happiness, er, śreyaḥ. Śreyaḥ means spiritual happiness. Just like children, they are interested with playing. That is preyaḥ. Whereas, the elderly persons, they are interested to give education.
So people... What is the meaning of this preaching? Why we are taking interest in preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Because the people in general, they are interested in preyaḥ, for their sense gratification, immediate sense gratification. But that is not good for them. Bhāgavata says, nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti: SB 5.5.4 "Simply for sense gratification, they are committing so many sinful activities. It is like, just like madman." A madman does not know what he is doing. Similarly, the materialistic persons, they are so much engrossed and become maddened to commit everything simply for sense gratification. Indriya-prīti. So Ṛṣabhadeva says, "It is not good. It is very risky life." If we indulge in sense gratification, Kṛṣṇa will give us facilities for sense gratification. Just like a monkey. A monkey has very good facility for sex life. A monkey, every monkey has got at least three dozen wives. Perhaps you know it. So he has been given the facility for sense gratification: "All right." But what is his position? He is a monkey. (laughter) Therefore it is called markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya means that a monkey is renounced. He does not dress, naked. And he lives in the forest. And he eats also fruit, vegetarian. But the nature is that he must have at least three dozen wives. You see? So the so-called sādhus or so-called vairagis, having illicit sex life very secretly, they are just like monkeys. So Rūpa Gosvāmī has said markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya.
So markaṭa-vairāgya is not necessary. Real vairāgya. We do not indulge in so-called sannyāsī or brahmacārī. If one is unable, he must become a gṛhastha, live like a gṛhastha, and not that "I pose myself as a brahmacārī or a sannyāsī, but I have got illicit sex life secretly." This is markaṭa-vairāgya. Markaṭa-vairāgya is not wanted. Real vairāgya. Real vairāgya means one who can sacrifice everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is vairāgya. Karma-phala-tyāga —that is karma-yoga. One should give up the result of his fruitive activities to Kṛṣṇa. That is karma-yoga. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ BG 6.1 . Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ. One who is not desirous to enjoy the fruits of his activities, fruitive activities, anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ, but does it as a matter of duty... "Kṛṣṇa wants it. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied by doing this." Kāryam: "It must be done." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, for his personal interest, he was not willing to fight. But when he understood that "Kṛṣṇa wants this fighting," then he took it as kāryam: "It must be done. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not, but Kṛṣṇa wants it. Therefore I must do it." That is called anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ, sa sannyāsī. He is sannyāsī. Na niragnir na cākriyaḥ. Niragnir and akriya. Akriya means they are freed, all kinds of fruitive activities. So they are not sannyāsīs, they are not yogis, but a yogi is he who gives away the result of his activities to Kṛṣṇa. Anāśritaḥ karma-phalaṁ kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ.
So he is asking... Viṣṇudūta uvāca, yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. It is a challenge: "So you are claiming that you are representative of Dharmarāja. So we want to know from you what is dharma. " Just like yesterday some gentleman came. He said that he has performed yoga, and he has become Nārāyaṇa. Was not? Was not he speaking?
Guest: He has not come in there. He is not God.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So naturally... Just like somebody says that "I am God. I have become God by mystic yoga." So one should challenge him, "What kind of God you are? Whenever there is a toothache, you go to the doctor immediately. And you are God?" So I have seen. I have seen one man in America. He had some disciples, some. And he was claiming everyone is God, he is God. And one day he was suffering from toothache. So I asked him, "What kind of God you are, that you are so much painful, suffering from toothache?" And actually, one should challenge these... And they are, practically, another kind of lunatic, who claim that "I am God." Similarly, this challenge is given by the Viṣṇudūtas to the Yamadūtas, that "You are representative of Dharmarāja. Now explain what is dharma and what is adharma. " brūta dharmasya nas tattvaṁ yac ca adharmasya lakṣaṇam. Tattva, lakṣaṇam: the symptoms of adharma, and the truth of dharma.
kathaṁ svid dhriyate daṇḍaḥ
kiṁ vāsya sthānam īpsitam
daṇḍyāḥ kiṁ kāriṇaḥ sarve
"Now explain who is subjected to the punishment of Yamarāja. You have come here to take away this Ajāmila to the court of Yamarāja. But first of all explain who is actually subjected to go to the court of Yamarāja for being punished." This is the question, and we shall discuss tomorrow about the answer. Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Yamunā: What is adhut? What is the (indistinct) adhu?
Prabhupāda: Dut? Avadhūta. Paramahaṁsa. Paramahaṁsa stage, the highest stage of perfection... They are not under any rules and regulations, paramahaṁsa.
Yamunā: How does such a person engage?
Prabhupāda: That's a long history. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, sthita-prajñasya. Sthita-prajñā. So there are many symptoms. On the whole, avadhūta or paramahaṁsa is not subjected to any rules and regulations. They are so elevated. That is not to be imitated. That is a post, position, very exalted, perfectional stage, spiritual advancement. So if you want to know the symptoms, that is in the Bhagavad-gītā . There is a list. But one thing you can simply know, a paramahaṁsa is a stage who is above all rules and regulations. That's all.
Haṁsadūta: (indistinct) disturbed.
Prabhupāda: Another nonsense. That's all.
Revatīnandana: So if he continues to follow these rules and regulations...
Prabhupāda: He doesn't follow. He doesn't follow. I can... I understand from his behavior.
Revatīnandana: But generally they do follow in the sense that they generally...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paramahaṁsa...
Revatīnandana: For setting example for others?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Paramahaṁsa, they do not come in the society because people may imitate and they fall down. Therefore they are aloof. Just like Gaura Kiśora dāsa Bābājī Mahārāja. He was aloof, bhajanānandī. But one who will act as preacher or spiritual master, even if he is paramahaṁsa, he should live ordinary so that his disciples may follow. He comes to second stage. Paramahaṁsa is the first stage, and preacher is in the second stage, and neophytes are in the third stage. So the neophyte should try to come to second stage. Īśvare tad-adhīneṣu bāliśeṣu dviṣatsu. They have got discrimination: Īśvara, Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tad-adhīna, the devotees; bāliśa, innocent; and dviṣat, those who are atheists, envious of... As soon as they hear that here is something going on, talking about God, they become immediately envious. We have increased the number of this kind of men. There is someone interested in God. They simply challenge. They are called dviṣat. So a preacher should avoid them. But the paramahaṁsa, he does not avoid. So there are so many things. So we haven't got to imitate the activities of... A paramahaṁsa is a position, exalted position. They are very rare to be visible because they do not care to come in the society. So, and if you want to know about the paramahaṁsa, the sthita-prajñā description in the Bhagavad-gītā , I think, in the Twelfth Chapter, you can know it.
Mālatī: Prabhupāda? Can you explain more about preyaḥ and śreyaḥ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Śreyaḥ means ultimate benefit, and preyaḥ means immediate sense gratification. That is called... That is the difference between śreyaḥ and preyaḥ. That's all right.
Revatīnandana: So the transcendentalists are śreyaḥ? And the karmīs and others are...
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are after preyaḥ. Those who are after śreyaḥ, they should follow the catur-āśrama, varṇāśrama. The varṇāśrama, according to Vedic system, the four kinds of varṇas or social caste, and four kinds of spiritual order, āśramas. That is the beginning of preyaḥ. Without this acceptance of these principles, according to Vedic principles, one is not considered as human being or civilized man. Because that is a system, if we follow that system, gradually we rise to the platform of śreyaḥ. If anyone does not follow regulative principles, it is very hard for him to come to the standard of śreyaḥ. But in this age, in Kali-yuga, every man is so fallen that he cannot follow any regulative principles according to the Vedic scriptures. As such, they have been accepted as śūdras. Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ: "In this age everyone should be accepted as śūdra. " But then how to elevate them? For elevating them, this..., not the Vedic system is to be followed but Pañcarātriki. Pañcarātriki ... Just like we are trying to elevate these Europeans and Americans according to Pañcarātriki-vidhi. Everyone should be followed. It is not that Indians should not follow; only the others will. No. It is for everyone, Pañcarātriki-vidhi. The Pañcarātriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being elevated to the śreyaḥ platform, he should be given chance. That is called Pañcarātriki-vidhi. Just like dīkṣā, initiation. Śūdras are not given initiation. A śūdra cannot be initiated. Only the brāhmaṇas can be initiated, or dvija, or the vaiśyas and the kṣatriyas, the higher caste, not the śūdras. But according to Pañcarātriki-vidhi, even the śūdras or less than the śūdras, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā SB 2.4.18 , everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, not by others. That is the system.
Śyāmasundara: Does one become elevated by following the karma-yoga principles only?
Prabhupāda: It will take a long, long time, and failure is possible. In this age, nothing is possible for the fallen people.
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
This is the injunction. If you want to be elevated to the perfectional stage of life, then you must chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. That will help you. No other method, measures, will help you. You can try for it, but there is every chance of failure. But if you follow this path, as enunciated by the śāstras and elaborated by Lord Caitanya, then there is chance. And actually we are seeing that is being done.
Revatīnandana: In the First Chapter, God Realization booklet, First Chapter, Second Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam , the process described there where it says that the gross materialists can begin meditating on the syllable om and then try to contemplate the universal form. That is not recommended for this age, right?
Prabhupāda: No, that is not for the advanced stage. Those who cannot... Just like the materialistic persons, they cannot understand why we are worshiping Deity. They are puzzled. They think, "Why these fools are taking one brass doll and worshiping as God?" They laugh. You see? They cannot understand. They are hard... What is called? It is impossible for them. Therefore they have been recommended that "You think of God, the universal form." That they like, their meditation, that universal form. They cannot understand or concentrate on this form, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam SB 1.3.28 , dvi-bhuja-muralīdhāra, Śyāmasundara form. They cannot. But by this arca process we are giving chance to everyone. But for the materialistic person it is difficult. They think that they are idol worshipers. But actually, the Vaiṣṇavas, they are not so fools that they will worship an idol. Therefore they have been recommended to concentrate on the universal form.
Revatīnandana: We always encourage chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, is that so?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the only method in this age. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, one's... The reservoir of understanding will be cleared. And then you, he can receive, he can receive the spiritual knowledge. Without cleansing the heart it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures— brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha —they are simply the cleansing method. And bhakti is also a cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti. But by engaging oneself in this Deity worship, he also becomes cleansed. Tat-paratve ... Sarvopādhi ... As he becomes enlightened or advanced in understanding that he is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa, he becomes purified. He becomes purified. Sarvopādhi means he doesn't... Sarvopādhi. He tries to eliminate his upādhi, his designation, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." So in this way, when you become fully eliminated of this bodily concept of life, then nirmalam. He becomes nirmala, uncontaminated. And so long this concept of life is going on that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," he's still in the... Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. (aside:) Sit down properly, not like that. Sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ. Arcāyām eva haraye ... Even in this process, when they are engaged in Deity worship, arcāyāṁ haraye yat-pūjāṁ śraddhāyehate, with great devotion doing, but na tad bhakteṣu cānyeṣu, but he has no sympathy with others or he does not know what is the position of a devotee, then sa bhaktaḥ prakṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ: "He is called material devotee, material devotee." So we have to elevate ourselves from material devotional stage to the second platform when one can understand what is a devotee, what is a nondevotee, what is God, what is atheist. These discriminations are there. And in paramahaṁsa stage there is no such discrimination. He sees everyone is engaged in service of the Lord. He does not envy anyone, he does not see anything, anybody. But that is another stage. We should not imitate, try to imitate, but we may know that paramahaṁsa is the highest stage of perfection. Just like as a preacher we have to point out... Just like I told this boy, "You sit down like this." But a paramahaṁsa will not say. A paramahaṁsa, he sees, rather: "He is all right." He sees. But we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. Because we are preacher, we are teacher, we should not imitate paramahaṁsa. We must tell the right source, right course.
Revatīnandana: You must be higher than the paramahaṁsa stage, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: I am lower than you. I am lower than you.
Revatīnandana: You are so beautiful. You are paramahaṁsa, but still, you are preaching to us.
Prabhupāda: No, I am lower than you. I am the lowest of the all creatures. I am simply trying to execute the order of my spiritual master. That's all. That should be the business of everyone. Try best. Try your best to execute the higher order. That is the safest way of progressing. One may be in the lowest stage, but if he tries to execute the duty entrusted upon him, he is perfect. He may be in lowest stage, but because he is trying to execute the duty entrusted to him, then he is perfect. That is the consideration. [break] Back to Godhead means one must be completely pure. A slight impurity will not allow. Kingdom of God is so, that no impure person can enter. Just like in your country. You belong to USA.? There are... In every country, there are so many. Especially in your country, there are so many immigrants, immigration to check whether contamination... Even they do not allow plants to be carried. Is it not? From one port to another. Why? Checking the contamination. So if in this material world such strict checkings are there, don't you think that one who enters, one who wants to enter the kingdom of God, there is no checking? Anyone will be able to enter? It is a commonsense affair.
So kingdom of God means purity. So if there is slight impurity, he will not be allowed: "Keep aside." And it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Yeṣām: "Persons who are completely being freed from the contamination of sinful activities," yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇām, "simply engaged in pious activities, they can become a devotee." Te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ BG 7.28 . These are clear statements. And the pillars of sinful activities, that is also mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Striya-sūna-pāna-dyūta yatra pāpaś catur-vidhāḥ: BG 7.28 "Four kinds of sinful activities: illicit sex, and intoxication, and unnecessarily killing of animals, and gambling." All the slaughterhouses of the world are being maintained unnecessarily. That is recruiting simply sins. They are eating sins, and therefore the world is in trouble. Simply committing. There is no necessity of killing animals. But here in India they are killing ten thousand cows daily, what to speak of Western countries. So people are so much addicted to sinful activities. How they can be happy? They are condemned. Only this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if they take to this movement, they can be saved. Otherwise, there is no saving. They must cycle round the 8,400,000 species of life, sometimes very happy and sometimes very sad, sometimes this Brahma, sometimes the germs in the stool. This is going on, changing bodies, one after another, just like we change our dress. This will go on so long one is not completely freed from the sinful activities. Unless he enters into the kingdom of God, this cycle of birth and death will go on. Only in the spiritual sky there is no birth, death, old age, and disease. And as soon as you are out of the spiritual sky, these four things will... You may live for thousands of years. That doesn't matter, but you have to die. That is the law of material nature. You may have very good medicine, drug shop, as you have got in your country, but still, you have to suffer from diseases. You may have thousands of methods of contraceptives, but the population will increase. And as soon as there is death, and as soon as this body, the janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi ... BG 7.28.
In the Bhagavad-gītā everything is clearly stated, that any intelligent person will put forward before him that "We have solved all our miserable conditions of life, but not these four principles." That is not possible. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi: "The sufferings of birth, the sufferings of death, the sufferings of old age, and the sufferings of disease." That cannot be solved. That can only be solved if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious and go back to home, back to Godhead. That's all. Otherwise it is not possible. You may be a very great yogi. You may be very great meditator. All these things, they are very nice. They can elevate you from higher standard of life. Just like your country, USA, you have got higher standard of life than India, in one sense. But you can have thousand thousands more higher standard of life in higher planets. Thousand thousand times. As there is comparison between India and USA, or any country, similarly, in planetary system also, there is comparison. This planet is so much full of material pleasures, another planet so much, so much. But in no planet there is the guarantee that there will be no death. That is not possible. That is stated in the Bhagavad..., ā-brahma-bhuvanāl-lokān punar āvartino 'rjuna. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka where one twelve hours means thousands of four yugas, still, there is death. So you cannot avoid this. So one who is serious... So we shall begin. What is this name of this magazine? Asia?
Śyāmasundara: Asia. Asia magazine.
Prabhupāda: Asia magazine. It is published from London?
Guest (1): It is published from Hong Kong.
Prabhupāda: Hong Kong. Oh, I see. Oh, our New Vrindaban. (laughs) Very nice. So you have published very nice pictures. So it is not... You can take it to our... This is one picture, and this is one picture. Bring. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Side by side, hell and heaven. One has to select. [break] ...and the spiritual world there is only one class of men. Therefore spiritual world is called absolute. There is no disagreement. The center is Kṛṣṇa, or God, and everyone is engaged in His service in love, not paid servant. Paid servant will always disagree in proportion to the money he receives. But in the Vaikuṇṭha world there is no question of paid servant. Everyone is free. Everyone has got sufficient because, as I told you yesterday, that they are all liberated. They have got equal opulence like God. But still, they serve. That is the superiority(?). Here one serves in need, and there they serve without need. There is no need of service. Everything is there complete. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa [Bs. 5.29] . It is said that there are kalpa-vṛkṣa, desire tree. Desire tree means a tree from which you can get enything you desire. Then why there should be service? Here service is forced. If you don't render service, then you will starve. This nature is called avidyā-karma-saṁjñānya tṛtīyā śaktir iṣyate. Karma-saṁjñā. Here one may be king, but still he has to work, and what to speak of the poor man. Everyone has to work. This is called avidyā-karma-saṁjñā. But in the spiritual world there is no question of work.
So there are two classes of men in this material world, not in the spiritual world. The spiritual world is one. They are all cognizant that "We are eternally servant of God." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām ( Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) . There are plural number living entities; they are all being provided with one cetana, the supreme cetana. So these two classes of men are known... One is known as demigods or servant of God. And another is called a servant of māyā. Both of them are servants. Nobody is master. That is not possible. Only one master is God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa: CC Adi 5.142 "Only īśvara, or the controller, or the master, is Kṛṣṇa." Āra saba bhṛtyā: "And any other, either demigods or ordinary [break] living entities(?), they are all servants." Yāre yaiche nācāya se taiche kare nṛtya: "Now, under the direction of the Supreme Lord, everyone is dancing or working." In the common word we say that "We are dancing dogs." Because under the direction of the master... The master says "You please dance," the dog will dance. So master, because the dog knows that "He is my master. If I don't dance, then I will starve." So actually that is the position. Nobody is master here. But when you falsely claim that "I am master," that is māyā. Everyone is serving, but under the impression that he is master. The head of the family, he is thinking that "I am the master," but actually he is serving each and every member of the family. The state executive officer—you may call a king or a president—he is thinking that "I am king," "I am president," but actually he is serving. That is his position. Unless he serves properly, immediately he will be dethroned or next time he will not be elected. So that is our position. We are all serving. Ekale īśvara kṛṣṇa āra saba bhṛtyā CC Adi 5.142 . This is a fact. Only master is Kṛṣṇa, and everyone is
servant. Who can challenge this statement? Is there anyone within this hall, that "I don't serve anyone"? Is there anyone? And somebody is claiming that "I am God." Just see. This is called illusion, māyā. This claim is made by the illusioned living entity. Here, this material world means everyone is trying to become the master. And there is competition between one master to another. Because nobody is master, that competition, that "I shall become master," that is illusion. So in this illusory fighting and competition, when one fails, that "I could not become the master..."
For example, in our country we respected Mahātmā Gandhi as the father of the nation or the master of the nation. But actually, he was servant. As soon as there was little discrepancy, immediately he was put to death. Immediately. Similarly, in USA also, President Kennedy, he was very popular president, but as soon as there was little discrepancy, he was also killed. So this position we must know, that nobody is master here; everyone is servant. But the real position is to become the servant of God. That he is, but because... Just like a criminal. He thinks that "I don't care for any law." But he is forced to obey the laws in the prison house. Outside or inside, he has to obey the laws of the government, but under illusion he thinks that "I don't care for the government." Similarly, those who are rascals, they think that "There is no God. I am God. I don't care for anyone." That is another class, demonic class. And those who obey the laws of God, they are called demigods. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva āsura eva ca BG 16.6 .
There are two classes of men in this world. One is called daiva, and the other is called āsura. Āsura means rebelled against God: "Don't care for God. I am God. You are God. Everyone is God. Why you are searching after God? There are so many Gods in the streets, lying on the footpath, daridra-nārāyaṇa. You serve these Gods." You see? This is illusion. Daridra-nārāyaṇa, starving God. So many subscription are raised in America in the name of serving these daridra-nārāyaṇas in India. Now these Americans are questioning that "You take money for serving the daridra-nārāyaṇa. Why we see...? When we go to India, why we see so many daridra-nārāyaṇas are lying on the footpath?" These questions are being made. One of the big Ramakrishna Mission swamis, Swami Nikhilananda, he told me. It is not my manufactured story. Actually, people are claiming welfare society, welfare activities. But what welfare they are doing actually? The welfare activities are increasing, and the candidates for receiving the welfare, they are increasing. You are trying to serve the daridra-nārāyaṇa, but actually the number of daridra-nārāyaṇas are increasing daily. So that is the position. Here, practically, Nārāyaṇa cannot be daridra. That is another illusion. Nārāyaṇa is the husband of the goddess of fortune, Lakṣmī. How He can be daridra? It is also manufactured word. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi [Bs. 5.29] . Here we keep one Lakṣmī, but as soon as there is any little discrepancy, the Lakṣmī immediately becomes angry and there is divorce. Practically there is no respect from the side of Lakṣmī to the so-called daridra-nārāyaṇa. But there, thousands and thousands of Lakṣmīs are very respectfully serving the Lord. You'll read in the story of Rukmiṇī, the prime Lakṣmī of Lord Kṛṣṇa. One day Kṛṣṇa was a little joking, and she took it very seriously, and she immediately fainted. So much respect. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa might be thinking of leaving me." So she fainted immediately. So much sambhrama. Lakṣmī-sahasra-śata-sambhrama-sevyamānaṁ [Bs. 5.29] . These are the statements of scripture. And when Kṛṣṇa was actually present on the planet, He showed it, how much He is respectfully served by His sixteen thousand wives, and how much comfortably He kept all of them in different palaces, and expanding Himself into sixteen thousand forms. That is God. That is God. So everyone, even the Lakṣmī is servant, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa, what to speak of others? Dāsī. So how one can claim that "I am God"? God is not so cheap. Only persons who are illusioned, they claim that "I am God." He is servant. Instead of becoming, voluntarily rendering service to God, because they claim to be God they are more put into illusion. Māyā-graṣṭa jīvera sei dāsa upajaya. It is said in the Vaiṣṇava literature, piśacī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya, māyā-graṣṭa jīvera sei dāsa upajaya: "Just like a person, when he is haunted by ghosts, he speaks all kinds of nonsense, similarly, when a living entity is engrossed by the illusory aspect of this material nature, he also talks all foolishly." He also talks... One of the greatest foolish things is that he claims that "I am God."
So God is not so cheap. Therefore there are two classes of men: asura and devatā. You have heard that there is always fight between asuras and devatās because asuras are always against God, and devatās, they are servant of God. That is the difference. Even at home there are, there was asura and devatā. The father was an asura, and the son was a devatā, Prahlāda Mahārāja. And the father became enemy of the son. Naturally, father is always affectionate. But because he was asura, he became against his beloved son. That is the nature of the asura. Even asuras ... Just like tiger also has got affection for the cub, so this Hiraṇyakaśipu was affectionate because Prahlāda Mahārāja was very nice boy, five years old, very good looking. Natural affection. He was youngest. And one day he asked the son, "My dear boy, what you have learned the best thing? Tell me." Just like father asks sometimes. So he described that "One should sacrifice everything for realizing God." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām, asad-grahāt ... I forget that śloka now, that Prahlāda Mahārāja said that "That is the best way of life in the human form of life, to utilize this opportunity for realizing God." That was his version. And the father became very angry. And from that day, father, the father taught, instructed the teachers, that "How is that you are teaching all this nonsense to my boy?" They replied, "Sir, we do not teach. This boy is naturally God-inclined. What can I do? As soon as he gets opportunity, he begins to preach God consciousness in the class." When the teacher is absent, immediately Prahlāda Mahārāja stands up on the bench and he addresses the friends, "My dear boys, this is the life for realizing God. You don't forget this." In this way he was lecturing. These are in the Bhāgavata .
So the demigods means God-realized persons or servant of God. They have dedicated their life for the service of the Lord, whereas the asuras, they are always against such principles. So here also the same thing is happening. Yūyaṁ vai dharma-rājasya yadi nirdeśa-kāriṇaḥ. The Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūta that "If you are actually the servants of your master, Dharmarāja..." Yamarāja is Dharmarāja. Another name is Dharmarāja. He is also representative of God. Just like a magistrate, he also deals with the criminal cases, but magistrate is not bad. Magistrate is representative of the government. Similarly, Dharmarāja, although punishes all criminals or sinful persons, but he is a pure servant of God. Therefore his name is Dharmarāja. He is executing the order of the master. So therefore the Viṣṇudūtas challenged the Yamadūtas that "If you are actually serving your master, Dharmarāja..." Just like a police constable is supposed to know the law, whom to arrest. If he arrests anyone and everyone, then he is a fool. He cannot arrest anyone and everyone. He cannot arrest a law-abiding man. Similarly, the Yamadūtas, they also cannot take away to the court of the Yamarāja everyone and anyone. No. Only the nondevotees are taken. Those who are devotees, they are not taken. That is... You will find in the Bhāgavata , Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Yamarāja especially instructs that "Those who are Vaiṣṇavas, you should not go there. You should offer your respect to them." Somebody asked me that "Swamijī, why these tulasī beads in your neck or your devotees' neck?" So I replied, "Just like a pet dog has got a collar, similarly we are pet dogs of God. We have got this collar. And Yamarāja will understand that 'He is God's dog. He should not be shot down.' " (laughter)
So actually that is the position. Anyone... There is a verse. There is a verse that "Don't go to the Vaiṣṇavas." The Yamadūtas were especially instructed. But this Ajāmila was known, a sinful person. Everyone knew. But he had become, I mean to say, free from all sinful contamination because at the time of death, he uttered the word "Nārāyaṇa" without any offense. The Yamadūtas, they could not understand that he is no more under the laws of criminal punishment; he is free from all contamination. And actually, that is the position. Kṛṣṇa... One who utters the name "Kṛṣṇa," he immediately becomes free from all sinful activities, immediately. That is the power of Kṛṣṇa's name. But the difficulty is that after being freed, we again commit mistake in sinful activity. Kṛṣṇa's name has got the power. As soon as you utter the name "Hare Kṛṣṇa," immediately you become freed from all contamination. Therefore if one thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, so even if I commit sinful activities, that will be counteracted by my chanting," that is another, greatest offense. That we have discussed many times, that on the strength of holy name of Lord, if one commits sinful activities, he is a greatest offender. Just like sometimes we find in Christian churches. They go on Sunday, and they confess, and they are supposed to be excused from the sinful reaction. But again, after coming back from the church, again commits the same sins with expectation that "Next week, when I shall go to the church, I shall confess, and it will be counteracted." This kind of, I mean to say, understanding is prohibited, this kind of understanding. One... Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted Jagāi-Mādhāi. They were very sinful. What is their sin? The illicit sex, woman-hunter, drunkard, meat-eaters. That's it. That is sinful activities according to Vedic scripture. So they became debauchees and gundas , a disturbing element. But Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them. Caitanya Mahāprabhu delivered them on one condition. What is that condition? When they fell down on the lotus feet of Lord Caitanya and Nityānanda, "Sirs, we are so much sinful. Kindly deliver us"—there is a long history, incidence; I will tell you some day—Caitanya Mahāprabhu made one condition, that "I can accept you only on your promise that you shall no more commit sinful activities. What you have done, that is all right. I will excuse. But if you commit again, that will be greatest offense." So they said, āra nāre bābā. Āra nāre: "No more, sir. This is the end of our sinful activities. No more we shall do it."
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, following the footsteps of Lord Caitanya, we are also following the same principles under the authority of Lord Caitanya. When we accept somebody in our society as initiated member we put forward this obligation, restriction, that "No more illicit sex life, no more gambling, no more intoxication and no more animal food." That is necessary. If you accept spiritual life, at the same time go on committing sinful activities, then you will never be able to progress. That is not possible. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said by Kṛṣṇa, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmāṇām: "Persons who are completely freed from all contamination of sinful activities and simply engaged in pious activity, they only are admitted in devotional service." So if you are actually serious about entering into the kingdom of God, Vaikuṇṭha, then you should be very much careful about these four principles of restriction. No illicit... You cannot have any sex life without being married. That is sinful activity. You cannot indulge in intoxication. You cannot eat anything which is beyond the jurisdiction of your food. For you, for a human being, the food is, I mean to say, given there, quota, that "You can eat grains. You can eat fruits. You can eat flowers, vegetables. You can eat milk." That is sattvikāhāra, foodstuff prepared from vegetables, fruits, grains, sugar, and milk products. That's all. That is sattvika. That is allotted for the human being. You cannot imitate the cats and dogs: "Because they are eating meat, I also meat... Meat also is my food." They put forward, "Everything is food." So why don't you eat stool? That is also food—for the hog. So we must have discrimination, that what sort of food we shall take. Not that like hogs, anything will be accepted. That is humanity. So in this way, actually if we enter, if we want to enter into spiritual life, then these four principles of restriction must be observed. [break]
...And those who do not believe in God and act according to whims, such persons are called asuras. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ BG 7.15 . It is clearly stated, māyayā apahṛta-jñānā asuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. This very word is very important: asuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. They have... Because they have taken to the shelter of asuri-bhāva, atheistic philosophy, in spite of advancement of education, they are narādhama, lowest of the mankind. These words are exactly there. Naradhāmā. You cannot say, "How you can say this gentleman asura? He is so much educated, highly qualified, university degree." The answer is there, māyayā apahṛta-jñānā: "Yes, it appears that he is very learned, but his actual knowledge is taken away by the māyā on account of his being atheistic." And such atheistic person, bewildered by māyā and being lowest of the mankind, they cannot surrender unto God. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ BG 7.15 . So these things may not be very palatable, but these things are there in scriptures. We have to preach the scriptural injunction. Therefore we say, " Bhagavad-gītā as it is." You cannot play hide and seek with the problem of life. You must know your real position, and you must...
Therefore here it is asked that brūta dharmasya nas tattvam. So dharma and adharma. There are two kinds of activities, dharma... Dharma means one who is acting according to the order of God. That is dharma. And one who is not acting according to the order, that is adharma. Therefore the challenge was there: "If you are actually representative of Dharmarāja, you must know what is dharma and what is adharma. You explain." That means they are also not aware what was the actual position of Ajāmila. They did not know that although throughout his whole life he was sinful, but because at the time of his death he simply remembered Nārāyaṇa... But that is also difficult. We may not think that "Let me now go on committing all sinful activities. At the time of death I shall remember Nārāyaṇa or Kṛṣṇa." That is not possible. It is only possible for persons who had some intimate relationship with Nārāyaṇa. This Ajāmila had very intimate relationship with Nārāyaṇa. When he was boy, when he was being trained up by his father, he was very faithful to Nārāyaṇa, to his father. Up to twenty years, he served very nicely Nārāyaṇa. Therefore he had the effect of remembering Nārāyaṇa at the time of death. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, svalpam api asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. If even slight of this Nārāyaṇa-dharma is practiced, it can save you from the greatest danger. So why not take to this Nārāyaṇa consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness always, twenty-four hours? Then there is no question of danger. Nārāyaṇa-paraḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati SB 6.17.28 . One who has become nārāyaṇa-para, he is not afraid of anything. Na kutaścana bibhyati. Why he should be afraid? He knows, "There is Nārāyaṇa; there is Kṛṣṇa. Why shall I be afraid?"
So, it is past six.
Devotee (1): Can I ask one question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (1): You said that Ajāmila, because he chanted "Nārāyaṇa, Nārāyaṇa," offenselessly, so he went to Vaikuṇṭha. And then you said if we are chanting, if we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, all our sinful activities are washed away. Is that so even if we chant offensively?
Prabhupāda: Offensive means when you chant with this idea that "Now I am chanting, all my sinful activities are gone. So again I can commit sinful activities, and I shall chant, 'Nārāyaṇa.' " That is offense. That is offense. Knowingly you are committing sinful activities. You know this is sinful activity, but you are thinking on the strength of chanting that "Even if I commit this offense, sinful activities, it will be counteracted by my chanting." That is offense. That offense was not there in the case of Ajāmila. He was young man. He was being trained up by his father in the Nārāyaṇa philosophy, Nārāyaṇa life. But due to bad association he became a victim to all kinds of sinful activities, and that was not offense. You can fall down by, I mean to say, unaware the association. But if you are offenseless, then you'll be saved. But if you purposely think that "Because I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, it can counteract my sinful activities," that is the greatest offense, knowingly. Ajāmila did not know. He was a boy. He fell a victim to bad association, but he was not offender. He did not do it purposefully. Therefore he was saved. Yes.
Guest (2): Why Vaiṣṇavas are...? They are bearing(?) one of the risks(?). Yamadūtas are not going. Is there already some rules(?) of they or something like that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not to be kept falsely. You see? Yamadūtas are... They are very intelligent. If you keep it falsely, they can catch you. They are not foolish persons that you can cheat him. No, it is not possible. You must be actually Vaiṣṇava; then you are excused. Otherwise not. You cannot cheat. So they are being trained up to become actually Vaiṣṇavas, not a pseudo Vaiṣṇava, simply for earning livelihood. No. That is not our proposition. And those who are earning livelihood by presenting himself as false Vaiṣṇava, their condition is more condemned. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Instead of earning your livelihood by presenting yourself as a Vaiṣṇava, better you become a sweeper in the street and earn your livelihood. Don't cheat." That was the order of my Guru Mahārāja. "It is better to become a sweeper in the street than to become a false Vaiṣṇava." That is real philosophy.
Devotee (3): Prabhupāda, you said that the greatest offense is to chant thinking that "My sins will be washed away" and commit sins, or wants to.(?) So what is the result that that person gets if he dies in that condition?
Prabhupāda: He dies a sinful. Because he does not want to go back to Godhead, he wants to make some profit, so he dies sinful, and he has to be punished for that reason, in spite of his false this tilaka and false mālā. He'll be punished. Yes?
Karttikeya: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Even if a person is completely engrossed in material activities, but somehow or other, they utter the name of Kṛṣṇa... Like you said my mother attained Kṛṣṇa's kingdom, although she was completely absorbed in material activities...
Prabhupāda: That was due to your grace. You reminded your mother at the time of her death, "Kṛṣṇa." You were a good boy of your mother, and she got the opportunity, remembering Kṛṣṇa, and got all the profit due to having a good son like you. Yes, his mother... I do not wish to discuss. But we are not at all... Just like European ladies there. So he was visiting his mother and inspiring her, "Mother, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," whatever he has learned from me. She got some idea of Kṛṣṇa, later on developed little affection for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So at the time of death, by seeing him, she simply inquired from him, "Is your Kṛṣṇa here?" and died immediately. So she was fortunate to have a good son like him who reminded, by his presence, "Kṛṣṇa," and she became liberated. Therefore these things are required, Vaiṣṇava symptoms. People will immediately remember Kṛṣṇa by this tilaka, by this beads, by their fearures. Immediately they will know, "Here are the groups of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yes?
Guest (2): Who can be told as a true Vaiṣṇava?
Prabhupāda: That you have to learn—not in a minute. That you have to be trained up. Just see how they are being trained up. You cannot ask who has passed M.A. because you have to become M.A. Then you can. Not that simply asking for a minute you can understand. It is a long course of training. You have to admit yourself in the Vaiṣṇava school and become trained up. Then you will understand what is Vaiṣṇava. Yes?
Revatīnandana: Did I... In Indore did I understand, Prabhupāda, that you said that at first Ajāmila saw his son. And because his son's name was Nārāyaṇa, and he remembered, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa..." By calling for his son, he remembered Kṛṣṇa. Finally, he was calling Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is the commentary by Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, so we have to accept our ācāryas. That is commentary. But some way or other, Nārāyaṇa, the very name, the holy name, has got so much power. That you have to understand. So those who are always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they are saved. It is not a show. But offenseless chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra will always keep us safe and sound from the attack of māyā. And there is no expenditure; there is no loss. Why people should not take? Why this obstinacy? I ask. They are thinking that "I have become civilized. I have become educated. Therefore I shall not do this." So are they not educated? Are they not civilized? Why Indian boys are refusing? That is my question. They are losing the opportunity of taking birth in India. They are so much fortunate to take their birth in India, and they are refusing this culture. That is the effect of this modern education. Āpana dhana dilaye diye bhikṣa bhaje pareka. (?) What is the position of India? Nobody cares for India. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, India? That's poverty-stricken country." That is your good name. Because you are actually going. Your administrators are going: "Give me. Give me grains. Give me money. Give me weapons so I can be saved from the slapping of China." A begging business. The India's position is not very glorious outside India. You may be puffed up that you have become independent. But everyone is anxious to have your spiritual culture, everyone. They know. Even a Chinaman, he has written one book that is recommended in New York University. He says that "If you want to know about spiritual culture and religion, then you must go to India." So you are all young boys. You should be very responsible. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said specifically, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila jāra: "Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in the land of Bhāratavarṣa," janma sārthaka kari' kara paropakāra, "just make your life successful and do welfare activities for others." So you must realize, because in India you have got this Kṛṣṇa science or spiritual culture so nicely left by so many sages, so many saintly persons. You do not make your life successful by following their path. And what can you do for yourself or for others? You cannot be glorious simply by imitating them. When you have established some technological institution, you will find in the Western countries, they are hundred years ahead than you. So in that way you cannot make competition. You should realize your own assets and distribute to the world, and that will make you glorious. (end)