690401 - Conversation - San Francisco
Prabhupāda: "So we want to see him naked in this assembly." So she prayed Kṛṣṇa. Mahābhārata story is very nice, how Kṛṣṇa, protecting His devotee.
Gargamuni: Swamiji? Didn't Karṇa request Arjuna not to fight when he was lifting the chariot? Didn't Karṇa request Arjuna not to kill him?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Request. But Kṛṣṇa said, "No. You kill him. I say." Arjuna said, "That's all right. (laughter) When You order me, 'Fight,' I don't care for any morality or discipline. Your order is 'Fight.' "
Devotee: Can you chant for us loudly? Can you chant from the Bhāgavata?
Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll chant. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Oh, thank you very much. All should be offered there, Jagannātha. The etiquette is nice. Everything should be offered to the, through the spiritual master. That is the etiquette. No direct. (Prabhupāda chants the second chapter of First Canto.) One chapter. Just play it. [break] ...have the sound only. (Laughs) The explanation... I shall give you little explanation.
Gargamuni: Isn't the sound, though, as good as the explanation?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hearing is always good.
Gargamuni: Although we don't know what it means, but just the sound.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Sound will act. Just like "Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa," is acting, similarly.
Gargamuni: What chapter is this, Swamiji?
Prabhupāda: This is second chapter, First Canto. Sūta Gosvāmī, before speaking to the audience, he is offering his respect to the spiritual master. To offer respect to anyone means to remember his qualification. Just like we sing... Just like you offer respect to your spiritual master. What is the meaning?
nama oṁ viṣṇu-pādāya kṛṣṇa-preṣṭhāya bhū-tale
śrīmad-bhaktivedānta-svāmin iti nāmine
Yes. "I offer my respectful obeisances to Swami Bhaktivedanta, who is very dear to Kṛṣṇa, and has come before us to deliver." This is the meaning. So his qualification is described. Similarly, here also Sūta Gosvāmī is offering respect to his spiritual master, Śukadeva Gosvāmī. And he is repeating the history of Śukadeva Gosvāmī. Śukadeva Gosvāmī, just after taking birth from the mother's womb, immediately he started, without staying for a moment. Just see the brahmacārī. The... Father, they are naturally affectionate. So father saw that "This man, child, immediately after birth is going away? How is that? My dear boy, where you are going? Where you are going?" (laughter) So that is being ex... Yaṁ pravrajantam anupetam apeta-kṛtyaṁ SB 1.2.2 . The Śukadeva Gosvāmī, who was going without any ceremonial function... Because after birth there is ceremony, there is nāma-karaṇa, so many things to be done. But he didn't care for anything, any rituals. He immediately started. So it is specifically mentioned that he began to start without observing any formality any rituals. Immediately started. Yaṁ pravrajantam anupetam apeta-kṛtyaṁ SB 1.2.2 . Kṛtyaṁ means things which have to be done. Just like you are initiated, there are so many things to be done. So he didn't care for anything. Dvaipāyano ciraha-kātara ājuhāva. Dvaipayana is father's name, Dvaipayāna Vyāsa. Kṛṣṇa Dvaipāyana Vyāsa, his father's name. So viraha-kātara, too much affected. "The son born and immediately he's going?" Just see how much he is... "My dear boy, where you are going?" Ājuhāva. He didn't care whether father or mother is cut. Putreti tan-māyātayā taravo 'bhinedus. And there was vibration. He was passing through the jungle, and the trees as he vibrated... He was asking, "My dear son, my dear son," and the vibration "My dear son, my dear son." Like that. Taṁ sarva-bhūta-hṛdayaṁ munim ānato 'smi SB 1.2.2 . So "I am offering my respect to that saintly person." That means his qualification described and offered respect. And then next qualification, what is that? Yaḥ svānubhāvam akhila-śruti-sāram ekam ākhyātma-dīpam atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham SB 1.2.2 . And his other qualification is that he presented the gist, essence, substance, of Vedic knowledge for the persons who are eager to get out of the darkness of this material existence. Atititīrṣataṁ tamo 'ndham saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayāha SB 1.2.2 . And purāṇa guhyam. This Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is called the mahā-purāṇa, I mean to say, "the greatest history." Purāṇa means history, old history. Guhyam, very confidential. He explained this great, confidential history for the people who are suffering the repeated birth and death. For their purpose, he is so kind that he explained. Saṁsariṇaṁ karuṇayā. Karuṇayā means out of compassionate, compassion for the persons who are suffering continually birth and death. Taṁ vyāsa-sūnam upayāmi guruṁ munīnām. So "I offer my respect to that son of Vyasa who is spiritual master of many other saintly persons."
nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya
naraṁ caiva narottamam
devīṁ sarasvatīṁ vyāsaṁ
tato jayam udīrayet
SB 1.2.4
Now after... This is the process. He... First of all, he offered his respect to his spiritual master, then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Nārāyaṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not first to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, but first to the spiritual master, and then Nārāyaṇa. Yes. Just like he was asking.
Gargamuni: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Through. Nārāyaṇaṁ namaskṛtya naraṁ caiva narottamam SB 1.2.4 . Yes.
Gargamuni: Oh, that's his master.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Naraṁ caiva narottamam devīṁ sarasvatīṁ. Sarasvatī, the goddess of learning. And Vyāsam, and then Vyāsadeva, who is the master of Vedic literature. One after another. This is... Vyāsaṁ tato jayaṁ udīrayet. Then he is... He was questioned by the audience that what is the most important religion in this age? That was their question. There are many types of religious principles. So what is the best one for this age? So he is replying that question. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṇgalam SB 1.2.5 . "You have put very nice question, because you have put the question that 'What is the best religion for the people of this age?' " Yat-kṛtaḥ kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati. "And you have, you are very much anxious to understand the activities of Lord Kṛṣṇa. It is very nice. By this discussion everyone will become actually peaceful and satisfied." So the answer, "What is the best religious principle?" He is answering. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje SB 1.2.5 . "My dear brāhmaṇas..." in that meeting all the audience were great learned sages and brāhmaṇas. So he is addressing them. That is the best form of religion which performing one becomes elevated to devotional service of the Lord. Not religious formalities. One has to test by the result. Phalena paricīyate. You are Christian, I am Hindu, or he is Mohammedan. That's all right. You are very good, I am very good, he is very good. But what is the result of your following religion? Have you attained love of God? Simply I go the church, I go to temple, and I do all kinds of nonsense, I have no love for God, I have love for my māyā and I go simply..., that is useless. Religious principle means... It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu or Christian or Muslim or anything. It doesn't matter. Just see Bhāgavata. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo SB 1.2.5 . That sort of religion is nice, best, by which you can develop love of Godhead. It doesn't mention that "This religion is best, that religion is best." That religion is best which helps someone, the religionist, to develop love of God, Godhead. If you put to test all kinds of religion in this formula of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you'll understand which religion is best. You haven't got to ask anybody. Simply by testing how much one has developed love of Godhead. How much one has learned to love Kṛṣṇa or God. If, following any type of religion, if you get this result, then you have performed your religious principle very nicely. This is the answer. And what kind of love? Ahaitukī, without any cause. "Oh, I love God because I want something from Him." Generally, as they love God, distress, they want something. "My dear Lord, I am very unhappy. Please help me." That is also good. That is not bad. That is accepted in Bhagavad-gītā. But that is not pure love. Pure love means there is no reason. "Why I am loving Kṛṣṇa? Oh, there is no reason. I love Kṛṣṇa. I want Kṛṣṇa." This is love. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu says... You have got this translation in my first book, that, that Advaita has quoted that śloka in his sermon.(?) "Whatever you do, You are my Lord. I don't mind whether You put me into distress or You put me into happiness. Or if You don't help me in realizing You. It doesn't matter. Still, I love You. Whether I am going to hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. But I love You." Just like Cowper said, "England, with all thy fault, I love you." This is love. This is material, crude. Ahaitukī apratihatā. Apratihatā means that business, "I love Kṛṣṇa," cannot be stopped. "I could not love Kṛṣṇa because I was busy in doing this thing or that thing, or because..." So many reason we can put forward. No. Love of Kṛṣṇa cannot be stopped by any material reason. That is love. Nobody can say that "For this reason I could not love Kṛṣṇa." There is no reason. There is no impediment for anyone. Any circumstances. So any religious principle which helps a person to love Kṛṣṇa and God, in that way, without any reason, without any impediment... Just like flow of the river. There is no impediment in this world which can stop the flow of the river. Or the waves of the Pacific Ocean. There is no power in the material world which can stop the waves going on, going on, going on. You see? Similarly, that is the best type of religion. Now just see how Bhāgavata is liberal in the description of religion. Religion... You are religious, you are very pious man—how it will be tested? How much you have developed love of God. That's all. Without any reason, without any impediment. This is test of best religion. Vāsudeve... (aside:) Guru dāsa, you can hear? Yes.
vāsudeve bhagavati
bhakti yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jñānam ca yad ahaitukam
SB 1.2.7
Now, what is the purpose of religion? Why human society...? In human society, why there is some sort of religion? The animals, they have got no religion. Therefore if human society gives up the process of religion... Doesn't matter what religion he professes. It doesn't matter. If he doesn't care for religion, that society is no better than animals. That is animal society. Because animals, they have got no religion. So human society, if they have no religion... Must have some religion. It doesn't matter whether Christian or Buddhism or Hinduism or anything. A human being must follow. That is civilized. That is the behavior of civilized world. At the present moment they are neglecting. But in every country, either there may be temples or churches or mosque, people were very religious-minded before this age. I was very much satisfied when I came to New York... no, not only New York. First of all, I went to Pittsburgh, Butler. In that Butler County there were at least one dozen churches, very nice churches. That's a small county. So I was very much satisfied. "Oh, the American people are very religious. They have got these churches." And I saw on Sunday people were attending churches. And in New York also I saw. They may understand or not understand, but that religious spirit is there. You are responding to my appeal because you have got that spirit. Otherwise, why should you come and waste your time with me? So religious principle must be there in the human society. And what is the purpose? Why? The religious principle means that this material life is not happy. And we are searching after happiness. So real happiness is not in this world. You take any, I mean to say, messiaḥ. You take Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Lord Caitanya or Kṛṣṇa, or anyone you take. Nobody says that "You make adjustment here and live peacefully." No. Nobody says. You know that. So religious principle means to know that this is not the place to live happily. This is the principle aim of teaching religion. We are trying to live here, making things nicely adjusted, peace and prosperity. That will never be possible. This is foolishness. So religion means, religiously trained mind means he will know that "This is not the place for me. I should (with)draw my attachment for this place, and I must know what is my necessity. I am a spirit soul. I am not this body. Therefore bodily necessities are not all my demands. I must have spiritual necessities also. So all this means that I must give up my attachment for this body and I must develop my spiritual needs." That is the purpose of religion. So here it is stated that vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ SB 1.2.7 . All these religious principles can be achieved immediately if you place your love unto Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ. Bhakti-yogaḥ means devotional... If you try to serve, in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa, then all these principles of religions will automatically come. You will know that "I am not this body, I am a spirit soul. I have... The material attachment is useless for me. My real business is spiritual advancement of life." Everything will be clear if you simply execute devotional service of Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudeve bhagavati. Dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ viṣvaksena kathāsu yaḥ SB 1.2.7 . Again, (indistinct) one may execute very nicely his prescribed duties according to his religion, very good boy, but if he does not develop to hear about Kṛṣṇa, or God, this propensity... Just like you are sitting here to hear about Bhāgavata. Why? This is very nice symptom. You are developing to hear some things about God, or Kṛṣṇa. These tendencies. The temple, somebody comes to hear. Not all. Because they have no development. Life is wanted. So dharmaḥ svanuṣṭha... You may do your duty very nicely, you may be very moralist or philanthropist or so many they have manufactured. You may become everything. But if you have not that propensity to hear something about God, then all these are śrama eva hi kevalam SB 1.2.7 , simply laboring, laboring, laboring. That's all. That means wasting time. Dharmasya hy āpavargyasya SB 1.2.7 . Now, people are generally inclined to execute religious principles to make economic development. Just like in your Christian religion they go to church and pray, "Oh God, give us our daily bread." That is mainly economic development. Not only here. In India also the temple go, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, please keep my family well," or this or that. Economic problem. Generally, people, they become religionist... Therefore modern politicians, they say, "Why should you..." Just like the Russians. They say, "Why should you go to church for begging, 'Give us our daily...' oh, you come to us. We shall give you sufficient bread." The Bolshevists, they make propaganda like this. They go to village to village and ask the village men, "Oh, you pray to your church, pray, 'O God, give us our daily bread,' So have you got your bread?" "No, sir." "All right. Pray to us." They have taken a truck full of bread and... "Take bread. Take bread. As much as you like." "So whom do you like?" Oh, they will naturally say, "I like you." (laughter) Because they are not intelligent enough to answer, "You rascal, wherefrom you have brought this bread, from your father's house?" (Laughter) Can you manufacture the bread in the factory, rascal? It is God's bread. But they have no intelligence. They cannot say like that. If they had presented to me, I would have at once said, "Rascal, this is not your father's bread. It is God's bread. You have stolen the property." You cannot manufacture bread or wheat. It is sent by God. That answer we have to give to these so-called Communists and rascals, godless people, that "You are not proprietor. You are all rascals. Everything belongs to God." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So we have to present scientifically. We have to present by reason, by argument. Not that if we say somebody, "You are rascals..." No. You have to place the matter, that he is rascal. So that... Bhāgavata says that for economic solution... religion is not meant for economic solution. Economic solution is there, either you be religious or not religious. In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already. Just like in the prisonhouse, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prisonhouse, all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God. But still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God. Everything is there. So Bhāgavata says, dharmasya hy āpavargyasya nārtho 'rthāyopakalpate SB 1.2.7 . Don't execute religious principles for making your economic problem solved. Then? "We require some money." Yes. "What for?" Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya kāmo lābhāya hi smṛtaḥ. And even if you get money, that is not for your sense gratification. Nārthasya dharmaikāntasya. If you are religious, really, actually, a man of religiosity, then your money is not for sense gratification, as we are teaching our boys. They are working hard, they are getting money and they are spending for Kṛṣṇa. You see? Because they have understood that "My energy spent for Kṛṣṇa's cause is really utilized. And if I utilize my energy for sense gratification, then I am cats and dogs." So nārthasya. If you get money... You must get money. But it is not meant for sense gratification. "Then what is the, it is meant? We have got senses. We have to satisfy it." Yes. You have to satisfy it, but not for enjoyment. As far as you require it. You require fooding. Yes, for maintaining your body. Not for satisfying the tongue. "This, I want to eat this, I want to eat that, I want to eat that." No. Eat something. Just maintain your body. That's all. You sleep just to keep yourself fit to work. Not that sleeping for twelve hours, fourteen hours. No. Six, seven, utmost eight. That's all. Then eating, sleeping, defending. That's also required. Defend yourself. Not to encroach upon other's property. Just like Hitler sending soldiers in others' country. Why? You defend your own country. That's all right. You defend your home. That is not prohibited. The śāstra allows it. If somebody comes to encroach upon your property, you kill him immediately. That is said. But not kill unnecessarily. Just like Arjuna was taught, "Kill them. They have insulted your wife, they have encroached upon your property. They must be killed." That is allowed. But you don't be aggressive. So ahāra-nidrā-bhaya, and sex, sex life. Yes. Just get yourself married and have sex life only for children. Not for other purposes. So kāmasya nendriya-prītiḥ. Kāma means we have got some demands of the body. That is called kāma or lust. So that does not mean that we have to gratify the senses. As far as necessary, we shall utilize it. Nendriya-prītiḥ. Then how to live? Now, kāmasya, that satisfaction of the senses should be allowed just to keep myself fit. I must live. Even if I become Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I must work. So that is allowed. But what is my... What is your main business? Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha kārmabhiḥ. Your only business is to understand what you are, what God is, what is this world, what is your relationship. This is your main business. This is your main business. Not that you earn money and employ it for sense gratification, as it is going on in this materialistic way of life. Nobody is inquisitive to know what he is. How can he? Very big businessman or very rich man or so-called advancement, can you say what you are? What is your duty? Nobody can't. So that is the main business, that jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā nārtho yaś ceha kārmabhiḥ. By your... By the result of your activity... Or your main activity should be inquiring about your spiritual existence. So this should be our inquiry. I think we should stop here. Yes. [break] (devotees offer obeisances) Govinda dāsī? Where is Govinda dāsī? You take these two fruits, offer, cutting, and distribute prasāda.
Gargamuni: Thank you for chanting Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. You have got Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Read very carefully. All these things are already explained there. Cut it into pieces and distribute.
Devotee: Swamiji? Should we read just one chapter a day or...
Prabhupāda: It is very nice if you read one chapter Bhāgavatam daily. It is very nice. You make it a point to read one chapter daily. That is very nice.
Devotee: No more?
Prabhupāda: No, if you can do more, that's all right. Just like I ask everybody to chant 16 rounds. But if you can chant 1600 rounds, then who prohibits you? You can do that. But we should make a regulation of our life, that "So many times I chant. One chapter I shall read. I shall go to the temple at this time." In this way we must have routine work. Then we'll get practiced automatically. Yes. And Gosvāmīs, the Six Gosvāmīs, they were following routine work. Even they... Sāṅkhyā-pūrvaka-nāma-gāna-natibhiḥ. They were doing regularly counting. Just like you are counting sixteen rounds. Not only chanting in that counting, but they were offering obeisances also by counting, that "Hundred times I shall offer my obeisances." You see? This is regular routine. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Swamiji, can you tell me about what you said, going through the spiritual master, not directly to Kṛṣṇa, through the spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you just tell me something about it?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is the representative of God, or Kṛṣṇa. Just like if you work in some office, so there is one head man, representative of the proprietor of the company. You have to work under him. If you satisfy that person who is in charge of that department, that means you are satisfying the proprietor of the company. Is it clear? And he can give you direction how to work nicely because he's experienced. The boss. So spiritual master is external manifestation of God. God is within and without. Within, He is Supersoul. He will give you... If you are sincere, He will give you good counsel, "You do like this." You'll get dictation from within. That requires advancement of spiritual life. Then you get from within dictation. So God is helping from within and without. Within, as Paramātmā, and without as spiritual master. Both ways. As soon as you are sincere, then God will send you to somebody who is His bona fide spiritual representative. And if you take help from him, and help within and without... Just like a person going, or a boy going to a school, he's getting training in the school as well as home, both sides. Then his chance is very good. So we have to take both wise: from inside, from outside. You are doing some things in the service of the Lord. How you'll know that you are doing it properly or improperly? This you will know from the spiritual master. If he says, "It is all right," then it is all right. If he says, "It is not good," then it is not good. Just like the same way. The officer in charge, if he is satisfied (with) your work, that means you have satisfied the government or the supreme company, arranger, with whom you have no direct connection. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo **. Therefore it is said that if you satisfy your spiritual master, that means you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. And yasya prasādād na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. And if you have not satisfied your spiritual master, then you must know that you are, what is called, there is no certainty about your whereabouts, what you are doing. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Therefore, dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri-sandhyaṁ vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. So spiritual master is necessary and his direction is necessary. That is the system of disciple succession. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, Arjuna is surrendering. He was Kṛṣṇa's friend. Why he surrendered himself, "I am your disciple." You see in the Bhagavad-gītā. He had no necessity. He was personal friend, talking, sitting, eating together. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. So that is the way. There is a system to understand. It is specifically mentioned, śiṣyas te 'ham. "I am your disciple now." Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam BG 2.7 . "You kindly instruct me." And then He began teaching Bhagavad-gītā. Unless one becomes a śiṣya, or disciple, it is prohibited, not to instruct. Not to inst... That instruction is useless. That is the system. We are instructing in the class because there are few disciples who have taken vow to learn from me. Otherwise, I have no business to teach the public. The public may come. But actual interest is to teach my disciples. But that is secondary. For the public, secondary. But real business is to teach the disciples. Just like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was meant for Parīkṣit Mahārāja, Śukadeva Gosvāmī's disciple. But there were many others present. They also heard. Yes?
Gargamuni: Well, how can we begin to serve you so that you'll be pleased?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) That I shall tell you later on. (laughter) Do you think I am not pleased?
Gargamuni: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you must know it. How can you say that I am not pleased? How you know it that I am not pleased?
Gargamuni: Well, we cause you so much anxiety and everything.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Gargamuni: We cause you so much anxiety due to our faults.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I am pleased with you. Why I have given up all my anxieties of the sons and daughters who is born from my body, and why I am taking and transferring... (end)