680325 - Conversation - San Francisco
Prabhupāda: "...you, under the direction of Lord Śiva. I worshiped Lord Śiva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that." So Sanātana Gosvāmī said "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There were heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch it to iron. It will become gold." "Oh, you are very ... You're so... Now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold." So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that, "Lord Śiva directed that Sanātana Gosvāmī has the greatest benediction, I do not think this stone is greatest benediction because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Lord Śiva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable. Otherwise, why would you keep it in the garbage? You must have something more valuable. So you must give me that because that because Lord Śiva directed me to receive from you." Then Sanātana Gosvāmī told him, "Would you like to take that?" "Yes, sir. I have come for that purpose." So he asked him, "First of all, throw away the stone in the Yamunā River." So he threw away the stone. "Sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Devotees: Oh! (Laughter.)
Prabhupāda: "Forget everything. Sit down with me and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."
Gargamuni: He did it?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he associated with sādhu, Lord Śiva, Sanātana Gosvāmī. So everything was purified, changed. By association, good association, everything is possible. Therefore you have to make this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so perfect that anyone who comes in contact with that association, he becomes purified automatically. The association is so important. Anyone who will come in contact with the association, he'll be purified. Just like by association one becomes contaminated, similarly, by counter-association, one becomes free from contamination.
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Swamiji? I'd like to ask you is this good enough for the flute? This would be for the head of the flute.
Prabhupāda: Wood? It can't be.(?)
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: No. I'd cast it in gold.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This ivory?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Yes, that's ivory.
Prabhupāda: So what do you want to do?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: That would be on the head of the flute.
Prabhupāda: Flute? Oh, nice.
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Oh, the lion's all right.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark. Shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that... But that is also good.
Śyāmasundara: Swamiji? I have obtained today a large piece of...
Prabhupāda: Stone? Flat.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Marble. For Kṛṣṇa comes home,(?) back of Kṛṣṇa.(?)
Prabhupāda: Very nice. So it is not so high. How much it is, height?
Śyāmasundara: This one is only for practice. And then I have obtained...
Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.
Śyāmasundara: ...a large one. It is very difficult stone because it's like glass almost. I have to practice. And later a larger one.
Prabhupāda: So first of all you... This is called, what is called, test stone.
Śyāmasundara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Praṣṭhipāta, it is called in Bengali. They test gold. By rubbing on the stone, they can understand what is the value of the gold. In India they are simply keeping a stone like this, and you take something golden, and they will at once test by simply rubbing on it. So experienced. By the glazing of the gold they will understand what is the value of this. It is experience. But this stone is used.
Śyāmasundara: Marble?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, as soon as you get that church, all the gṛhasthas and brahmacārīs, they will have to bring money. (Laughter) Is that not right?
Devotees: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coal-mine that, "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him... First of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent. So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. "So what is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you. If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell." Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them. Then, after a few minutes, he said, "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." (Laughter) Because in your western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no tax-man. So what is your question?
Devotee: My question was... No, that's a good answer.
Prabhupāda: (Laughs) Yes. Your materialistic life is full of anxiety. That is the main symptom of materialistic life. We are always anxious, everyone. President Johnson, he's anxious, "Oh, my presidency is going on. Now I shall no longer be president." He's thinking, very much anxious. And, similarly, you are also thinking, another man is also thinking. Everyone is anxious. Nobody is free from anxiety. And when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka or any Vaikuṇṭha planet, the first thing is that you have no anxiety. That is spiritual life. Always joyful. (Baby cooing). No anxiety. Because she knows, "My mother is there. She will protect me from everything." So no anxiety means when you know that "Kṛṣṇa will protect me," you have no anxiety. To become in the family of Kṛṣṇa. We are already in the family of Kṛṣṇa, but in a different way. Just like if one is in the prisonhouse, he is in the government's protection, but in a different way.
Yamunā: Swamiji, Jānakī-devī wrote me this very nice letter where she had a dream that there was a gigantic platform above the surface of the earth, and all of our devotees, our Godbrothers and sisters and you, were assembled on this gigantic platform for saṅkīrtana. And we had such a thunderous joy, magnificent kīrtana, that the whole earth... When you said, "Jaya oṁ paraṁ paramahaṁsa," the whole earth bowed down to you like this. And we were all crying, so happy. And you said, "Now my Guru Mahārāja is satisfied." That was her dream.
Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you for your dreaming like that. It is very pleasing to me. Yes, I want to see like that. [Break]
Devotee: Swamiji, is the dream world the real world?
Prabhupāda: Yes, it is reflection of the real world. Reflection is real for the time being. This world is also dream, for the time being. Because this body is not permanent, so it is also a dream. A dream for 100 years or 50 years or 70 years, but that dream is 50 minutes. At night we see the dream for 50 minutes, and this dream is 50 years. That's all. It is a question of time. It is also dream. But dream is reality... So long we see it and enjoy it, that is reality. Just like a man in dream he's crying. It is dream. But the effect is there. Reaction is there. In that sense, dream is reality. Reality, temporary reality, flickering reality. Otherwise, it is reality. (end)