770502 - Conversation A - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770502R1-BOMBAY - May 02, 1977 - 79:49 Minutes

(Conversation with Shri Narayan)

Prabhupāda: Aaiye, baithiye. (Please come, sit.)

Shri Narayan: Yahan pe. (Here.)

Prabhupāda: Haan. aaiye mataji. (Yes, please come mataji.)

Prabhupāda: Your wife . . .

Shri Narayan: Abhi kaisa hai tabiyat? (How is your health now?)

Indian lady (1): Theek nahi hai. (I am not keeping fine.)

Mataji: Bahut garmi hai idhar. (It is very hot here.)

Prabhupāda: Apka . . . (Your . . .)

Shri Narayan: . . . to America me. sab accha hai, lekin apka bhi . . . (So in America everything is fine, but your . . . also.)

Prabhupāda: Pehle Kashmir me jayenge. abhi bahut thand hai. (First we will go to Kashmir. It is very cold there.)

Girirāja: This is prasādam from the Deity.

Shri Narayan: Yes. Ye hamara bada ladka hai. dubai me kaam karta hai.construction ka bahut bada project hai. Emirates. to wahan ye pehla hi bada project. (This is my eldest son. He works in Dubai on a very big construction project. In the Emirates, it is the first largest project.)

Son: Indian project sabse bada ye hi hai construction ka abhi tak. kareeb 100 crore ka material India se, yahan ka labour bhi bharat se, sab bharat se, sab engineer yahan ke hain aur kam . . . hai wahan ke log. (Until this date, it is the biggest Indian project in construction. 100 crore worth material was sent from India, the labor force is also from India, everything from India. All the engineers are from India and the work . . . the people there.)

Prabhupāda: Indian hi intelligent hote hain. ye to hum study kare hain. (The Indians are very intelligent, this we have studied. So, but they have sacrificed everything for . . . to imitate the Westerners. But Indian ka pas jo knowledge hai uska . . but we have locked it. Our knowledge, we have locked it, and we are trying to imitate. But the knowledge which the Indians have that . . .

Shri Narayan: Yes, true. Imitation is not good at all. We must keep our originality and ancient culture.

Prabhupāda: Ek to hamara bhari culture Vedic culture isko samajtha kuch nahi. (One thing is that our culture is very vast and heavy. They don't understand the vedic culture.)

Indian Man: Apka swasth accha ho jana chahiye. (Your health must improve.)

Prabhupāda: Aur ye purana machine hai. (This is an old machine.)

Indian Man: Apne to bataya tha ki 71 sal me to aap padhare America 40 rupy lekar aur apne 10 sal me jo chamatkar kiya. (You had said that at the ripe age of 71, you arrived in America with only 40 rupees and the wonders you did in 10 years.)

Prabhupāda: Han, government to 40 rupay se zyada nahi deti hai aur hamara pas rupaya bhi nahi tha. Smt Morarji seat diya humko jahaj me aur 40 rupaya, chalo. (Yes, the government does not give more than 40 rupees and I did not have money. Srimate Morarjee arranged for a berth for me in the cargo ship and gave me 40 rupees, go.)

Indian Man: 10 sal me itna kiya hai, han dekhiye na 10 sal ke andar. 70 sal ki umar me gaye aur 40 rupay leke. (In 10 years you have achieved so much. Yes, just see within 10 years. He went at the age of 70 and with only 40 rupees.)

Prabhupāda: Abhi udhar se mawali 10 lakh rupaya le ata hai. (Now from there the rogues bring 10 lakh rupees.)

Indian Man: Main pooch raha tha ki apka Mayapur me apne batay tha na 200 crore ka project hai to mai pooch raha tha ki paisa kahan se aata hai. to ye sab apke prakasan ka aamdani hai. kitan aamdani hai . . . (I was asking that in Mayapur you said that there is a 200 crore project so I was asking where does the money come from. This is all the money from your publication. How much are the earnings?)

Prabhupāda: Mai raat me kitab likhta hoon. (I write books at night.)

Indian Man: Abhi nahi likhte hain kitab? (You don't write books now?)

Prabhupāda: Wo kaam nahi band hoga. (That work can never stop.)

Indian Man: Abhi kaun sa kaam bacha hai jo aap kar rahe hain abhi? (Now which is the work left, balance that you are doing?)

Prabhupāda: Bhagavat chal raha hai. abhi dasham skand hai 4 chapter me hain. (With great praise our books are . . . Bhāgavatam is going on. Now I am in the 10th canto, chapter 4.)

Indian Man: Sab bhasha me ho gaya hai. bata rahe the cheen bhasha me bhi ho gaya hai. cheen, japan, roos, russian sab. sab nahi, kitni bhashaon me ho gaya hai? (It is printed in all languages. they were sayling that it is printed in Chinese also. Chinese, Japanese, Russian, all languages. Not all? In how many languages has it been printed?)

Girirāja: Twenty-three different languages.

Shri Narayan: Mahatpurna sab bhashaon me aa gaya hai. (It has come out in all major languages. Twenty-three different languages. (Bahaut badi baat hai. (It is a great achievement.)

Prabhupāda: Ye bhagvan ki kripa hai. Ek aadmi jivan me ek-do kitab nahi likh sakta hai. (This is the Lord's mercy. One person is not able to write 1 or 2 books in his life.) Within ten years I have already written eighty-four books.

Shri Narayan: Eighty-four books. Ye sab hai, ye sab nahi hai? sab inka hi hai. lekin isse bhi zyada hai. chapai to wahin ek jagah sab hota hai? hindi me bhi hai. kya acchi sundar chapai hai. aur bhi vibhinn bhashao me hai wo jo American ka bahut bada press hai wahin prakashit hote hain ki alag-alag deshon me? (All these are there, not all these? Everything is his but there is more than this. All the manuscripts are printed at one place, it is in Hindi also. What beautiful printing. It is there in different languages. Does it get printed in the biggest printing press in America or in different countries.).

Prabhupāda: Nahi zyada tarah America me hi hota hai. Ab bharat me bhi shuru kiya hai. (No mostly it is done in America. Recently it started in India also.) It will be a great pleasure. Daily five to six lakhs.

Sri Narayan: Five to six lakhs net income. Profit. Net income.

Prabhupāda: Nāhi, (No,) net income. Sale proceeds.

Shri Narayan: Sale, sale.

Sri Narayan: Likhai, chapai bahut achha hua hai. Aur bhi accha. (Writing and printing has come out very well.)

Prabhupāda: Aap log sab hain jo thoda sahuliyat kar dete . . . aap log jo leader hain . . . (You are all there and you can make it more convenient . . . you are all leaders . . . not donation. Sales proceeds from my books.)

Indian Man: Most of the books are sold in America or the Western countries or in our country as well? Aap ka to government se koi . . . (You have . . . with the government.)

Prabhupāda: Hamara to bhagvan se matlab hai aur bhagvan hi chala raha hai. (I am concerned only with God and He is guiding me. Western countries. All universities, libraries, professors take it.)

Indian Man: Humko to bahut anand hua. apne kaha tha na wardha me ki hamare peeche sab litigation chal raha hai, wo abhi saaf hogaya sab . . . (I am very pleased. You had said in Wardha that all litigations are going on, all that is cleaned now . . .)

Prabhupāda: Badmash log hai. (They are notorious.) So for all your difficulties, you approach Shriman Narayan. He is the right person.

Giriraj: We got the IOD today.

Indian Man: Aakhir Supreme Court ne to khahish kar diya na. (Finally the Supreme Court dismissed it.)

Prabhupāda: Okay, then should begin. Han, wo to maan liya. (Yes, it has been accepted.) So that question they have now satisfied? That road?

Girirāja: Well, they're waiting for us to make an official application. But on this IOD, the condition was there that we have to hand over that 10 ft. But that was crossed out.

Prabhupāda: Then we can begin. That's all right.

Indian Man: Ye bahut accha hua ki Supreme Court ne shayad faisala liya. (This was very good that the Supreme Court took the decision.) (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Zabardasti kidnap karke le jaate the, pakad ke le jaate the. (Forcibly they kidnap and take them, catch them and take them.)

Prabhupāda: Badmash to chale gaye. badmash to badmashi karenge.(verse) jiska jo swabahav hai wo chodega nahi. ek kutta ko raja bana diya jay tabhi wo juta chatega. (verse) usko kya milega. isliye... uska swabhav ho gaya . . . usko badalna padega.aur usko badalne ke liye bhagvan aate hain. "yada yada hi dharmasya" jo manushya ka kya kartvya hai wo bhool jata hai uska naam hai dharmasya glanir. wo jab dharmasya glanir yada yada hi bhagvan khud aate hain aur batate hain is tarah se kaam karo, "sarva dharman" loi sunta hi nahi. aap ke yahan bade-bade leader hain, doosre ka baat chodiya. (The rogues have gone. the rogues will do notorious things (verse) one whose nature is that will not leave it. If a dog is made a king even then he won't give up licking shoes (verse). What will he get? That is why . . . it has become his nature . . . he has to change and to transform him God descends. "yada yada hi dharmasya". The living entity forgets his duty, he forgets that his identity is dharmasya glanir. That dharmasya glanir yada yada God descends in person and guides us that we must work like this "sarva dharman" nobody bothers to hear. you have great leaders, forget about others.) Lekin wo bhagvan ka chakra to chodta nahi kisiko. (But God's disc does not spare anyone.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi bhagvan chodta hai. bhagvan kya keh raha hai "mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te". Maya chodegi "daivi hi esa guanamayi mam maya duratyaya" wo to maya ko chodne ke liye chesta karne se wo kya chodega. baki "mam eva prapadyante" bhagvan ka charan lo . . . usko chod do. wo to karega nahi. Wo Jay Prakash Narayan London me . . . lekar aaye the to unko bola 'God willing'. Hum kehte hain yadi God willing yadi final hai to kya God hai aur God kya will karte hain uske peeche leader log kya . . . usko chod diya. (to Girirāja). (No God leaves us. What is God saying "mam eve ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te" Illusion will not leave us "daivi hi eas sunamayi mama maya duratyaya" Even if we make efforts to get rid of illusion but she will not leave us all the more "mam eva prapdyante" take the shelter of lord's lotus feet . . . leave illusion. That you are not ready to do. That Jay Prakash Narayan in London . . . had brought then he was told "God willing" I say if it is God willing, if it is final then what is God and what does he will, leaders are behind this . . . they left God.)

Indian Man: Abhi antar to pada hai. Rajiv bhai se hum log mile the ek-do bar to wo mujhe bata rahe the, hum to unko bahut barso se jante hain to unhone kaha ki humko 19 months jail me rehne se humko bhagvan me shraddha bahut badh gaya. Kaise badhi. Unhone kaha humko to aasha thee nahi ki hum bahar aayenge jinda. Umar to 82 years ke wo bhi hain aur bahar aane ke bad ye janta party . . . me ban jayegi. Ye to daivi chamatkar hua, manushya ka kaam nahi hai.bole ye to sab bhagvan ne kiya. to hum ne kaha ki nimmit matram aap bane, baki to bhagvan ne kiya. Koi ahankar kare ki humne kar diya aisa nahi hai. ajeeb chamatkar hua. Aisa kabhi socha hi nahi kisine. to bhagvan me shraddha unki bhi bhaut badhi hai. Jay Prakash ji ki bhi, humlog mile the 3 din pehle to wo keh rahe the ki bhagvan jo kahega voh karenge. (Now it has made a difference. We had met brother Rajiv once or twice then he was telling me, we know him for many years, so he told us that after staying in jail for 19 months my faith in God has increased tremendously. How did it increase? He told us that he did not believe that he will be let off from jail. I was 82 years old, and after coming out this Janta Party . . . will become. This was a miracle by God , it is not an ordinary human being's work, he said all this was done by God. Then I told him that you are only an instrument in God's plan, rest everything was done by God. It was not with pride that I said I did everything. It was an unbelievable miracle. No one had thought in this way. So his faith in God has also increased multifold. Jay Prakash Sir and we met 3 days ago and he was telling me that I will do as God directs.)

Prabhupāda: Ye actually . . . kum se kum bhagvan jo khud baat bol rahe hain usko ye jo institution, usko aplog zari rakhiye. Politics me zhagada hota hai, wo pehle bhi hua tha . . . baki aap ka to connection hai usko . . . rakhiye jisme desh ka uddhar hoga hi aur sara duniya ka bhi. Kum-se-kum ye jo hum akele attempt kar rahe hain, Kṛṣṇa conciousness, ye institution ko aap thoda meherbani karke bacha karke rakhiye. ye hamara upar . . . hoga. itna prachar hoga kuch kehen ka nahi. Yahan to itna prachar hua, yahan mumbai me, abhi tak ho raha hai. Municipality me. Har tarah se . . . (This actually . . . God is declaring Himself this institution, you people have to keep it going. In politics there are differences, this had happened earlier also . . . you have connection with it . . . keep in that where the country prospers and the whole world also benefits. This what I am attempting alone, Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, kindly keep this institution alive, this will be a great favor on me . . . so much publicity will be there, unimaginable, here there was so much of preaching, here in Mumbai, it is happening till now, in municipality, in every way . . .)

Indian Man: Jaan bhuj ke karte hain. (Knowingly they do it.)

Prabhupāda: Haan, harrasment aur kya. koi raksha karne wala nahi, ye hamara problem. Police commisioner, police officer bol diya ye Hare Kṛṣṇa kirtan nuisance, likh ke bol diya. Bhagavad-gītā me kehte hain "satantam kirtayanto mam yatantas cha drdha vratah" aur ek public officer bol raha hai kirtan nuisance, ye apka God hai. (Yes, it is harassment, what else. No one is there to protect us, this is our problem. Police commissioner, police officer, is saying that this Hare Kṛṣṇa kirtan is a nuisance, he has written it and declared. In Bhagavad-gītā it is told, "satantam kirtayanto mam yatantas cha drdha vratah" and one public officer is saying your kirtan is a nuisance, this is your God.)

Indian Man: Videshon me zyada suvidha hai, yahan apne desh me . . . (In the western countries it is more convenient. Here in your country . . .)

Prabhupāda: (indistinct Hindi) Hum to governor tak approach kiya through another governor Chenna Reddy. Wo hamara member hai. Ye Mr. Chavan meherbani kiya nahi to ho hi nahi sakta tha. (We even approached the governor through another governor Chenna Reddy. He is our member. This Mr. Chavan favored us otherwise it was not possible.)

Indian Man: Wo jo Mayapur me ban raha hai usme to koi takleef nahi hai? (That one is Mayapur which is under construction, there is no obstacle in that?)

Prabhupad: Wo to abhi shuru nahi hua hai. Kya usme takleef, wo to gaon hai. Baki idhar takleef itna humko diya jo rone tak, abhi tak de rahe hain. Hum kya bura kaam kar rahe hain. Ye vrddha varsh me kitab likh raha hoon, sara duniya bech raha hoon aur 10 lakh rupaya . . . kya kasoor hai boliye. Ye aaplog sab hain isko thoda raksha kijiye. aapse to abhi mulakat ho raha hai. Usko bole. (That has not taken off yet. What trouble there, that is a village. But the trouble they gave us here, they made us shed tears, till now they are troubling us. What sinful activities are we doing? In this old age I am also writing books, and selling it in the whole world and earning 10 lakh rupees . . . what is our fault tell us. You are all there, please protect the institution. I have met you very recently.) Ye. (Tell him.)

Indian Man: Kisko? (Whom?) Ye apne wardha me jikr kiya tha na yehi kaha tha, yahan ka . . . (This you had told in Wardha, you had told this only here . . .)

Prabhupāda: Sab jagah wohi. Wo prahlad ko marne ke liye baap tak . . . Prahlad Maharaj aur Hiranyakasipu, baap beta, usko marne ke liye baap tayyar. Doosre ki baat chodiye. Doosra aadmi koi dushman hoye to samajhte, ye 5 varsh ka ladka, uska pitaji uska dushman ho gaya yahan tak ki jaan se marne ka koshish kiya. Ye humlog ka position hai. Godless society. Aur humlog ka to God hai "krsnas tu bhagvan swayam" usko mano, Kṛṣṇa jo bolta hai suno "man mana mad bhakto mad yajo mam namaskuru" Kṛṣṇa ki baat suna rahe hain, koi manufacture nahi. (Everywhere it is the same. The father went to the extent of killing his own son . . . Prahlad Maharaj and Hiranyakasipu. Father and son, to kill his son the father is ready. Let's not talk of others. Somebody else becoming an enemy is understandable, but here it is a 5 year old boy and his father has become his enemy to the extent he tries to kill him. This is our position. Godless society. And we have our God "Krsnas tu bhagavan swayam" . . . "Man mana mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru". We are trying to distribute Kṛṣṇa's words, not something manufactured.)

Indian Man: . . . government ko to . . . hota hai. (The government has . . .) They are not happy. Itna paisa aa raha hai, foreign exchange me. Wo ye sochte hain ki ye jo paisa aa raha hai, ye . . . (So much money is coming in the form of foreign exchange. They think that the money which is coming in, this . . .)

Indian Lady: . . . daivi kripa se aa raha hai ye nahi sochte hain. ( . . . they do not think that it is coming because of the mercy of the Lord.)

Indian Man: . . . Dubai gaya mai to Raja ne contract diya, 100 crore ka contract, sara saman yahan se jane ke baad. To hum milke aaye raja se. Uske baad hamare jo counselor hain wo gaye raja ke paas gaye ki humne suna hai aise-aise log aaye the. To they have not come through the right channel. To mai aapse request karoonga ki aap unko contract mat do. Ye raja humko bolta hai ki tumhara counsellor aaya tha humko ye bolke gaya hai. Aur maine bola ki dhanyavad mujhe maloom hai ki kya kar rahe ho. kya dosh hai. (. . . when I went to Dubai, the king gave me a contract of 100 crore after all the material went from here. So we met the king. After that our councilor went to meet the king and told him that we heard that some people had come.

Prabhupāda: . . . dena chahiye. Are kuch karan bhi bataye nahin, aise hi bolte hain. (. . . must give. They did not give any reason, they simply say.)

Indian Man: Karan kuch nahi. ye hai ki hamare . . . nahi aaye, seedhe aapse aake mil liye. wo ye chahte ki hum unse baat karte, wo raja se time lete. (There is no reason. It is that our . . . did not come, came and met you directly. They want that we should talk to them.)

Indian Lady: Usko wo udhar jane ko nahi de rahe hain. Favoritism. Sab jagah apna aadmi ko bhejna hai. kaam hona ye zaroorat nahi hai. (They are not allowed to go there. Everywhere they want to send their men. Work must be done, this is not necessary for them.)

Indian Man: Humse koi baat nahi kuch nahi. Hum jaake unse mile. koi interest liya nahi. Hum seedha raja ke pas jake baat kiye. Unhone ne kaha ki bahut accha, unhone hume kaam diya ki kaam shuru karo. Tabhi jake bole ki nahin unko kaam mat do. Agar kuch hua to Government of India responsible nahi hai. 2 saal hue ab wo mere paas aata hai ki mujhe raja se milne ka hai ye kaam kara do-wo kaam kara do. Attitude ye hai. Aur kisi bhi desh ka hoga to councilor ki nahi bahut accha ye hai wo hai, ab to meherbani hogi. Bhagvan ka kaam to chalana hi hai na apko. (They did not talk to us. We went and met them. They did not take any interest. We went straight to the king and spoke to him. He appreciated and gave us work and told us to start the work. Then they said not to give work to them. If anything happens, then the Government of India is not responsible. It has been 2 years and now he comes to us and tells us that he wants to meet the king to get this work done, that work done. This is the attitude. If it was someother country, then the counselor has no say, now it is favor. You have to carry on the work of the Lord.)

Prabhupāda: Haan hum to naukar hain unka hukm jo hai humko to manana hi padega. usme doosri baat hai. (Yes we are His servants and whatever His orders are, we have to follow. No other opinion on this.)

Indian Man: . . . dekhiye Ramchandraji ki Sita ko utha le gaya Ravan, to kitna pareshani hua bichare dhoondhe kahan dar-dar van me. Phir purusharth karke jeet kar aaye. Kṛṣṇa ko to bhagna hi pada. Aakhir Dwarka me jake unhone shanti payi. Janm bhar ladna hi pada. Itne log the raja desh-desh se ladne, kans, janm bhar unka ladayi hua. aakhir mahabharat bhi usme bhi saarthi bane aur saarth jaisa mehnat kiya. Buddh bhagvan ko bhi dekhiye. Aakhir me kehte hain ki jo kheer diya tha usme kaanch mila ke diya, poison hi diya. Isa masih ko bhi suli pe chadha diya aur Gandhiji ko goli se uda diya. To jitne kaam karte hain bhagvan ka unko yehi karna padta hai. Prahlad ka jo... Ye to kuch bhagvan ki lila hi hai ki is tarah ke kaamon me vighn padte hi hain aur vighn padne ke baad hi phir wo aur tez badhta hai. Mohammad saheb ka to shayad to do ladke... unko bhi to maar ke bhagaya unko Mecca se Madina patthar mar-mar ke bhagaya hai unko wahan se. (indistinct conversation) (See Ravana kidnapped Sitadevi, wife of Lord Ramchandra and how much trouble he had to go through searching for her in the forest and other places. Then he brought back Sitadevi after fighting and killing Ravana chivalrously. Kṛṣṇa had to run away from the battlefield. Finally he got peace in Dwarka. All His life he had to fight with demons. He had to fight with so many kings and rulers. He had to fight throughout his life. In Mahabharata also he had to become the charioteer and fulfills his responsibility. Take the example of Buddha. It is said that when he was given sweet rice mixed with glass pieces, he was poisoned. Jesus Christ was crucified and Gandhiji was shot down. All the Gods had to fight the demons like this. Prahlad was also poisoned by his father. These are all pastimes of the Gods, that there are always obstacles on the path but in removing these obstacles, the movement catches greater momentum.)

Sri Narayan: . . . anti-national activities . . . abhi mere khayal se kuch parivartan hona chahiye. Wo pehle jo tha na sarkar wo to bilkul secular ke naam se dharm ka naam hi swarth tha. Abhi to ye log to aisa nahi karenge. (. . . now I feel there should be some changes. The government which was ruling earlier was secular and fulfilled their selfish motives in the name of religion.)

Prabhupāda: Iske alava chahiye jaise Morarji Desai ka kuch anubahv ho raha hai. Ye jo citizen ko aaplog zari rakhe, usme apko fayda samman, vriddhi aur ye jo foreign country . . . to India ka glory hai na. (Besides this, we are able to experience the rule of Morarji Desai. Keep this citizenship going, you will benefit from this, prosper and this foreign country. So it is glorious for India.)

Sri Narayan: Bahut badi baat hai. Aur itna to mai samjhta hoon ki kisi bhi andolan me itna videsho me kaam nahi hua tha. (It is a big thing. And I understand that no other movement had picked up so much momentum in a foreign country.)

Prabhupāda: Isko aplog zari rakhiye. ... aur aplog agar sahyog na karte to na jane kya ho jata. . . . (instinct Hindi) (Keep this going . . . and if you people had not supported us, then I don't know what would have happened.)

Indian Man: . . . aap koi samprak rakhiye. kya dikkat hoti hai, kahan kya . . . RamKṛṣṇa se bhi hum kahenge. Ye to bahut dukkh hua sab sun kar. Mujhe to khayal hi nahi tha . . . (Keep in touch. What are your problem areas, where is the difficulty? . . . I will also speak to Ramakṛṣṇa. I was very saddened to hear all this. I had no idea of these events.)

Prabhupāda: You can speak with him in English, he does not know Hindi.

Sri Narayan: Is there anyone who can keep us in touch about the difficulties. then RamKṛṣṇa Bajaj will be also helpful. I can also help. Surely we can help. I was not aware of all this. Itni takleef hai apko yahan. Mai to samjha ki sabka sahkar mil raha hoga. (You are going through so many difficulties here. I was under the impression that you are getting help from people.)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Indian Man: Ye jo chief minister hain, Vasant Rao Patil jo aaye hain na inka in chhezo main... milega aur Morarji bhai to atee shraddha hai in sab cheezo mai. Puri jankari hai ki nahin humko nahi pata. Delhi me bhi hai na ek centre? (The chief minister who has taken charge Vasant Rao Patil, he has interest in all these matters . . . will get and Morarji has intense faith in all these matters. Whether he has full knowledge of all this, I don't know. You have a center in Delhi also?)

Prabhupāda: Brindavan me hai ek. Ab to bhagvan ki kripa se gaon-gaon me ek center khol sakte hain. aadmi kahan hai, kaun prachar karega. India log to ata nahi aur ye log ko jo ata hai. Ek se mera personal request hai kum-se-kum immdeiately jaisa humko America me diya hai to kum-se-kum kuch aadmi hamare samsthan chalane wale, aadmi to chahiye, ki isko permanent residence nahi mil sakta? Isko kuch . . . nahi kar sakte. hum kisko leke kaam karen? Ye aate hain, kuch mahine baad unka visa, isme hamara 5-6 lakh rupaya barbad ho gaya. phir aata hai phir visa. (There is a center in Vrindavan. Now by the mercy of the Lord we can open centers in every village. Where there are people, we need people to preach. Indians don't come and these people don't . . . my earnest request is that immediately as I was provided with people in America so also I must get some people here to run the institution. Will he not get permanent resident status? Can you not do something? . . . whom should I take for work? They come and after some months their visa expires and 5 to 6 lakhs gets wasted like this, just for traveling to and fro. Again renewing my visa.)

Indian Man: Wo 3 mahine se zyada shayad nahi badhata hai. (They do not extend for more than 2 to 3 months.)

Prabhupāda: 3-6 months. phir bola jao-jao-jao. jana padta hai. We have nothing to do with politics. Abhi hum guarantee de denge jo Bharatvarsh ka ek paisa bhi khayega. Udhar se 10 lakh rupaya le aata hai aur phir bhi rehne ko nahi deta hai. (Then they will start reminding them to go go go, then they have to leave. Now we will give a guarantee. We will not take a single penny from India. We bring 10 lakh from there but still they do not allow them to stay.)

Indian Man: Rehne ko nahi deta hai. jaana phir wapas aana. Itna kharch aane-jaane me lagta hai. Isme mai samajhta hoon ki Bharat sarkar ki jo policy rahi na abhi tak wo kuch kisi ne kuch laga diya hoga ki ye CIA hai. Aisa kuch hoga to sari policy, circular bhi bheja hoga mere khayal se aap jo bata rahe hain, state governments ko bheja hoga ki cautious rehna, savdhan rehna. Ye pata nahi mujhe kya hai. Pata lagaya ja sakta hai. (They don't allow them to stay. They must go and come back again. So much is spent on just traveling. From this I understand that the policy of the government of India, which persisted there, must have leaked wrong information that they are CIA agents. If it is like this, then the policy, they must have also sent a circular regarding what you mentioned. State governments must have received a circular to be cautious, to be careful. I don't know what it is. We can find out.)

Indian Lady: . . . uska legal procdure sara-ka-sara PM ko de aur unke samne rakh dena chahiye phir kisi ke man me koi shankha, prashn poochne ka karan bhi na rahe . . . (. . . give all the legal procedures to the PM and the papers must be kept before him then there will be reason for any doubt or question in anyone's mind . . .)

Prabhupāda: Wo to procedure ho chuka hai parliament me. apko shayad maloom hoga. Ye log Hare Kṛṣṇa movement hain, usko rupaya milta hai American CIA se . . . parliament me record hai. Government is government, nayi party aaye chahe jaaye. (Record is there. That procedure has been initiated in the parliament. You must be knowing. These people are Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, they get money from American CIA . . . there is a record in the parliament. Government is government irrespective of what party is in rule or not.)

Indian Man: Record to hai, record dekha ja sakta hai. (Enquiry commission . . . records are there, we can see the records.).

Indian Lady: Unko ek bar remind karke . . . aap isko dekhen aur humlogon ko sahyog aap se jitna ho sake, hum aapse sayog chahte hain, is tarah ka ek . . . (They must be reminded once . . . you people see this and give us support as much as possible. We need assistance from you, like this . . . )

Prabhupāda: Aur phir 2-4 varsh lag jayega. Kya objection hai. Humlog Kṛṣṇa conciousness, Bhagavad-gītā, humara book hai, hamara literature hai, humlog aur kya karte hain. Jo bhagvan batate hain usko bolte hain. Isme dekhane ke liye aankh band karke rakhne se kya, jab dekhega nahi to usko kaisa pata chalega . . . (And it will take 2 to 4 years. What is the objection. We are following Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, Bhagavad-gītā, we have our books, we have our literature, what else do we do? Whatever God speaks we deliver that message to people. If you want to remain blind then what can be done? When they don't see then, how will they understand?)

Indian Man: Atal Vihari Vajpayee hain na aajkal videsh mantri hain. Bahut acche aadmi hain, ek accha culture hai. Mera khyal ye hoga ki aapka Mumbai se ya yahan se jo delhi ke jo chatra hon to mai 25-30 may delhi me phir hoon. to agar wo mujhe milkar puri jankari de, apne kaha visa ka takleef hai . . . bat karna padta hai. enquire kuch ki hogi, to mai unko keh sakta hoon ki ye . . . (Atal Vihari Vajpayee is the foreign minister now. He is a very good man, and is very cultured. I feel that your disciples from Mumbai or ones in Delhi, I will be in Delhi by 25th to 30th of this month. So if they can meet me and give me full information, you mentioned that there is a visa problem . . . I have to speak. Some enquiry must have taken place, so I can tell them that . . .)

Prabhupāda: Aap kahan rahenge? (Where will you stay?)

Indian Man: Mai Gandhi smarak, pata de doonga. genreally mai gandhi smarak me rehta hoon, to unko keh sakte hain. Mai apko pata de doonga . . . sab aa jaye aur unko bata de . . . (I will stay in Gandhi Smarak, and will give the address. Generally I stay in Gandhi smarak, so we can tell them, I will give you the address . . . if everyone can come and tell them . . .)

Prabhupāda: You take his telephone number. Aap ka jo position hai aap chahte hain bahut kuch kar sakte hain. (And you can also develop a Gandhiji ashram just to the point of Bhagavad-gītā teaching values. The position you are in you can do whatever you want.)

Indian Man: Gandhiji ka to pura Bhagavad-gītā unka pran hi tha. (Bhagavad-gītā was very dear to Gandhiji.)

Prabhupāda: Mane interpretation, . . . yehi sab karte the. Ab gandhiji kaise kahe, theory of non-violence. Gita me kahan hai. (That means interpretation . . . all this he used to do. Now how will Gandhi say, the theory of non-violence. Where is it there in the Gita.)

Indian Lady: Swamiji, itna sundar tasveer, itna sundar . . . ho raha hai. mere man me ek iccha hoti hai ki jo aajkal ke bacche college me padte hain, uske baad kuch kaam karenge, shaadi hogi, bacche honge, phir grhasthi, grahasth asram me, samaj me aayenge, to shuru se, garbhavasta se, jitna bhi Gita ka gyan hai, jo marg-darshan ka . . . wo bachho ke . . . wo bal-charitra ke roop me, bal-gita ke roop me . . . (Swamiji such a beautiful portrait, such a beautiful . . . is happening. I have one desire in my heart, the youth who study in colleges, after that they get a job, get married, have children. Then family in grihastha ashram. Then when they come into society, right from the moment of conception the knowledge of the Gita shows the path for the children in the form of moral stories, in the form of songs for children . . .)

Prabhupāda: Balak ke liye to hai. Gita to koi gambhir shastra to hai nahi. (It is for children. Gita is not a very grave scripture.)

Indian Lady: Gita nahi hai lekin jo bhi uska darshan hai . . . (Not the Gita but the philosophy in the Gita . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi darshan aap aankh moond ke rahiyega to kaun darshan karayega. balak to samajh sakta hai. budha doosri tarah se usko samajhate hain. ye to budha ka dosh hai. cheez to clear hai "dharma kshetre kurukshetre sama veta yuyutsavah mam ka pandavaschaiva kim akurvata sanjaya" Kurukshetra hai ye dharma . . . ye to balak samajh sakata hai. budha aake bolta hai nahi kurukshetra ka arth hota hai aur kuch. budha usko bigad deta hai. yehi to mushkil hai. Nahi to Bhagavad-gītā me jo likha hua hai wo balak se balak bhi samajh sakta hai. (No, if you keep your eyes closed then who can explain philosophy to you. The child can understand but the elderly give a different interpretation to it. This is the fault of the elderly. Everything is clear "Dharma kshetre kurukshetre sama veta yuyutsavah mam ka pandavaschaiva kim akurvata sanjaya." This religion is kurukshetra . . . this can be understood by a child. The elderly come and say no, this is incorrect, this has a different meaning. The elderly misinterprets and confuses the child, this is the problem. Otherwise whatever is written in the Gita can be easily understood even by the children.)

Indian Lady: Wo jo book-stall . . . the book-stall . . . isliye mera man hota hai ki balakon . . . (That is why my mind wants something for the children . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi book-stall ka baat chodiye. Ye jo original lekh hai wo to balak se chota hai wo bhi samajh sakta hai. Baki budha aakarke usko bigad deta hai. Jab cheez clear hai aur aap doosra tarah se unko samajhate hain to, aap usko bigad denge to sochiye kya hoga. aapk kaam hai bigadna. (It is not a matter of a book stall. This original text can be understood by the youngest child. But the elderly come and confuse their minds. When things are clear and you try to explain in a different way, then knowledge is confusing and what will be the consequences just imagine. Your job is to spoil everything.)

Indian Man: Jaisa hai vaisa hi usko manana chahiye. uski vyakhya karne ki zaroorat nahi hai. (He must accept knowledge as it has come from Kṛṣṇa.)

Prabhupāda: Haan, kya zaroorat hai? (Yes, what is the need?)

Indian Lady: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Aap agar pehle se uska dimag kharab kar dengi to . . . padhiye kya farak padta hai. (If you spoil his thirst for knowledge in the beginning then . . . if you read it what difference does it make?)

Indian Man: Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Apka kehna theek hai jo hai usko sunana chahiye. (What you say is correct, that what is available you should hear it.)

Prabhupāda: Ab jaise bhagvan bolta hai "man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru" to ye chote-chote balak samajh sakte hain, kar sakte hain. Koi bhi balak . . . baki aap agar kahenge ki pathar hai, bhagvan aur kuch hai, ye bhagvan nahi hai to aap ka . . . it is not . . . sab khatam aur . . . aur nahi to kya solution hai. (Now how God Himself says: "Man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru." But if you say that this is a stone, God is something different, if this is not God then your . . . it is not . . . everything is finished and . . . if not what is the solution.) These Bhagvan ko sab samay chintan karna, unko ek namaskar karna, ek phool chadhan, ye koi mushkil hai kya. balki apka leader karne ko nahi dega. uska buddhi sarvanash ho gaya hai jeevan bhar, ye sab chal raha hai. uska tasvir dekh . . . ye bhagvan, asal me Kṛṣṇa ko bhagvan hi mante nahi. (All the time meditate on the Lord, pay obeisances to Him, offer a flower to Him, is this very difficult? But your leader will not allow you to do this. His intelligence is bewildered lifelong, all this is going on. See his Deity or picture form . . . this God, actually they are not ready to accept Kṛṣṇa as God. "Bhagvan aur kuch hai.")

"avajananti mam mudha" ye mudha log jo hai wo Kṛṣṇa ko bhagvan hi nahi mante. Jab bhagvan ko nahi mante to bhagvan ka kitab kyo lete ho. Tumhara kuch theory hai, why do you take Bhagavad-gītā. . . . hai apna haat se . . . hamara hath se kyun . . . Why . . . this is our profession. If you want to understand Bhagavad-gītā, you understand and teach, lekin . . . Gandhi ashram. aap keh denge ki Gandhi . . . wo Gita me. ("Aavajanati mam mudha" these fools do not accept Kṛṣṇa as God. When they don't accept God then why do they purchase the books of God? You have a certain theory, why do you take Bhagavad-gītā . . . is our contribution . . . why from us . . . but . . . Gandhi ashram. You might say that Gandhi . . . in the Gita.) God is something else. Ka lanchan pura karne ko. (To complete his allegations.) I don't criticize, this is a fact. I saw ek bhi picture nahi hai bhagvan ka. Sab bhagvan bolte hain "man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru" ye kahan hai. (I noticed there was not a single picture of God. All Gods say "Man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru" where is this?) Simply distortion, what benefit you will get. Spasht bataya gaya hai "evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduh sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa" wo jo parampara nasht ho gaya to yog nasht ho gaya. ab jo nasht ho gaya usko dene se kya fayda hoga. (It is clearly stated "Evam parampara praptam imam rajarsayo viduh sa kaleneha mahata yogo nastah parantapa" if that disciplic succession is lost, then the devotional service is lost. Now what is lost what is the point in giving that?) Rasgulla hai, wo nasht ho gaya, usko apko khilane se kay fayda hoga, rog hoga. Nasht-brasht cheez lene se kya labh hoga. (There is a Rasagulla (sweetball) which is spoiled, what is the point in giving that, he will fall sick. What is the use of giving something which is spoiled and lost.)

"imam rajarshayo viduh" it was not meant for the local class, joki governement me hain sab bade-bade raja unke liye. yadi government officers sab samjhe to aur sab samajh jayenge. wo rajarshi log, raja hai. To aap sba log to kum-se-kum . . . hum to kuch parivartan nahi kiye hain Bhagavad-gītā me. Hum usme distortion nahi kiye hain, koi compromise nahi kiye, As It Is. (This knowledge was for the important people in the government. The top officials, the kings, if they get this knowledge, then all the people also will be benefited. They are elevated saints, kings. So at least you people . . . I have not made any changes in the Bhagavad-gītā. There are no distortions, no compromise, as it is.) Bhagvan bolta hai "mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya" mujhse badh kar aur koi authority nahi hai. Hum samajhte hain jo bhagvan jo bol diya bas theek hai. to usme mushkil kya hai. The greatest authority bol diya usko hum man liya, humko kuch manufacture karna nahi pada. (God says "Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya", there is no greater authority than Me. We understand that whatever God has said, that is the ultimate. What is the difficulty in this? The great authority has told us something and we just accept it. We need not manufacture anything.)

Indian Man: . . . apne yahan pe hai aur Bible ki vyakyha logon ne ki hai, ya Quaran ki kee hao, aur koi granth ki, apne yahan pe hi hai . . . (We have it in our country also and the description of the bible has been given by people or the Quran, any other scripture or text, it is there in our religion also . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi to us liye. ye to hamare liye saral hota hai. Bhagvan bolta hai "man mana mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru" hum sikhata hai bhagvan hai, bhagvan ki murti hai, idhar namaskar karo, thoda kirtan karo, ye sab ye log karta hain aur hamare liye koi mushkil nahi hai aur ye kaam ho raha hai. (No for that. This will be easy for us. God says "Man mana mad bhakto mad yaji mam namaskuru" we teach that there is God, there is God's form, pay obeisances here, perform a little kirtan, this is done by all these people and for us it is not very difficult and this service is going on.)

Indian Man: Auro ke jitna nahi hua, usse bahut zyada ho raha hai. (It is not grown like others, but even beyond that it is growing.)

Prabhupāda: Bahut zyada ho gaya hi kyunki isme koi . . . hai hi nahi, distortion hai nahi. (It has grown in distribution because there is no distortion in this . . .)

Indian Man: Itna shigrhta se to koi kaam hua hi nahi jitna ki . . . (There is no work which has happened with such great haste as . . .)

Prabhupāda: Ye to samajhna chahiye. Hum to Bhagavad-Gta As It Is, nahi koi change nahi. Are bhagvan ke baat ke upar mai change karoonga. Kya hamara se chod diya hai bhagvan. Agar kuch karega aur kuch hota hai to bhagvan itan moorkh tha ki usko bola nahi, humko bolna hai. ye sab kyo kare. (They should understand this. In Bhagavad-gītā, there is no change in it. Will I change something which has been told by God? God has not left us the option to speak in place of Him. If you do something and something else happens then God is not such a fool that He would not have told it in the scriptures. Why should we do this.)

Indian Man: Ye sab apna vichar bhagvan ke naam pe. (All these thoughts in the name of God.)

Prabhupāda: Isme success kya hai? (What is the success in this?)

Indian Man: Jo padhte hain unko confusion hota hai. jitna Gita ka padhe, iska ye rai, uska wo rai. (Those who read it will get confused. Read about the Gita, this is his viewpoint, that is his viewpoint.)

Prabhupāda: Bhagvan ka rai chod diya. itna bada buddhiman jo bhagvan ka rai chod diya aur ek third class ka rai le liya. (Leave out God's opinion. Such an intelligent person, that he disregards what God has to say and accepts something which some third-class person has given.)

Indian Man: Agar unko likna hai to koi nai kitab likhe na. (If they need to write then let them write some new book.)

Pabhupada: Ye . . . hamara desh ka . . . chod diya aur duniya ka upkar karo. Ab humlog thoda shuru kiya hai. aaplog krpaya karke kuch co-operation kijiye. Morarji bhagavad bhakt hai, unko thoda samjhaiye. Zaroorat hoga to humlog 2-4 aadmi unse mil sakte hain, samajha sakte hain. Lekin . . . (This . . . our country's . . . they have ignored and are doing welfare for the world. Now we have started it in a small way. Please you people, cooperate a little bit. Morarji is a devotee of the Lord, try to explain to him. If 2 to 4 people are required from our side, we can meet him and explain it to him.)

Indian Man: Morarji aa jayenge to kuch sahitya vagera le kar once somebody should come with me. not the whole book, some basic literature, a catalogue of difficulties which are being faced by you from the government side. When it will be feasible. Morarji waise bhi . . . koi saath me aayega to milwa denge. wo bhi bhakt hai bhagvan ke. bahut shraddha hai unko isme. misunderstanding government ka hoga to pharak pad raha hai. (When Morarji returns then with some of our literature and other scriptures . . . anyhow Morarji also . . . if somebody comes with me then I can introduce him to Morarji. He is also a devotee of God. He has a lot of faith in our movement. The misunderstanding is from the government side and we can see the difference.)

Prabhupāda: Aaiye. (Please come.)

Indian Man: Pehle mile hain ki nahi aap. Ye Birjubhai Patel, yahan Gandhi shikshan bhavan, ye Juhu me hi parsi sanstha hai, degree college hai aur ye sab chalate hain . . . ke secretary hain mai uska adhyaksh hoon . . . humne aaka bahut samay liya . . . (Have you met him earlier? He is Birjubhai Patel, Gandhi Shiksha Bhavan, here in Juhu there is a parsi organization, he runs many institutions, degree colleges. He is the secretary and I am the President. We took your time.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi. Prasad. (No. Prasad.)

Indian Man: Abhi to apka swasth pehle theek hona chahiye. (Now your health should improve first.)

Prabhupāda: Are ye to purana machine hai. jitna hi theek kijiye gadbad hi chalega. lekin hamara kaam band nahi hona chahiye. aur aaj bhi jo kitaab likhna hai, asal kaam, wo chalu rahega. (Oh, this is a run down machine, how much ever you repair it there will be some problem. But our work must not stop and today also our priority is writing books, real work and that should go on.)

Indian Man: Kashmir jaenge na kuch din baad. (You will go to Kashmir after some days.)

Prabhupāda: Aapka kya rai hai? (What is your opinion?)

Indian Man: . . . mausam to wahan ka accha hai, tabiyat ke liye accha hai. (. . . the weather there is very nice, for your health it is very nice.)

Prabhupāda: Sab koi bolta hai. nahi garam nahi, ab to thanda hai. (Everyone says so. No it is not hot, now it is cold.)

Indian Man: Srinagar to is samay bahut garam hoga. gulmarg accha hai, doosra pehalgaon. Pehalgaon me bhi . . . (Srinagar will be very hot now. Gulmarg is a nice place, and so is Pahalgam. In Pahalgam also . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hum chahte hain jahan jake kuch bhookh ho jaye, kha sake, kuch khaya nahi ja raha hai, isiliye . . . (I want to go to a place where my hunger increases, I can eat. I am not able to eat anything, that is why . . .)

Indian Man: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Ramaniya to hum sara duniya me . . . (I have roamed the whole world so scenic spots are not the criteria.)

Indian Man: Jahan apko aaram mile, pani accha ho. Simla bhi accha hai. Yahan pe bhi bahut zyada bheed hoga. (Where you get rest, the water is good. Simla is also nice. Here also it will be very crowded.)

Indian Lady: Jahan apko zyada anukool ho. (Wherever you feel comfortable and convenient.)

Prabhupāda: He thinks Simla is better.

Indian Man: We have Mussorie. Pani accha hona chahiye. Rishikesh. Ye panchmarhi kaisa hai? Rishikesh aur little up Uttarkashi. Haridwar, Haridwar se thoda upar. Haridwar bhi accha hona chahiye, pani accha hona chahiye. Haridwar se Rishikesh accha rahega. wahan ka pani accha hoga. Gangajal hai, accha pani hai. Gangaji ke kinare Rishikesh accha hai, Haridwar, Rishikesh, ya thoda upar jayen to Uttarkashi ki taraf. Agar Gangajal apko mile to wo accha hoga. Kahin bhi Ganga ke kinare aap jayen. (The water must be good. How is Panchmarhi? Rishikesh a little above it, Haridwar and further up than Haridwar. Haridwar will be nice but the water must be good. Rishikesh will be better than Haridwar. There the water is good, it is ganges water, the water is pure, on the banks of the ganges. Rishikesh is good or little further up then you have Uttarkashi. If you get ganges water that will be good, anywhere you go near the river ganges, it will be nice.)

Indian Lady: Joshimath ka bhi bahut vikas hua hai. (Joshimath has also improved a lot.)

Indian Man: Ek bar mai bhi bahut bimar ho gaya tha jab Congress ka general secretary tha to wo phir Gangaji ke kinare Rishikesh ke wahan jahan Miraben rahi thi na jab angrez . . . to wahan mai 15 din raha Gangaji ke kinare ek jhopadi me. To subah jata tha to Gangaji me hi pani peena, Gangaji me hi nahana, wahin apna bhajan aur ye sab apna Gita aur Upanishad, bilkul sattvik jeevan. Pitaji mere saath the. 15 din me humko ekdam chamatkar ho gaya. aur kahin nahi gaya, wahin bas thoda ghoomta tha. (Once when I was general secretary of the congress party, I was very sick and I stayed near the river Ganges where Miraben stayed when the british were there. So I stayed there by the river Ganges in a hut. So in the morning I used to go and take bath in the Ganges, drink water from the Ganges, do bhajans, then read Gita, the Upanishads, it was a very austere life. My father was accompanying me. In 15 days there was a wonderful effect. I did not go anywhere, just strolled in the nearby places.)

Prabhupāda: To aaplog baat lijiye. (So you all can share the prasadam (conversation) Jaya Sri Kṛṣṇa.)

Prabhupāda: You can bring one blank.

Girirāja: The empty plate, yes.

Prabhupāda: What they cannot take

Indian Man: Aisa karenge thoda-thoda le lenge isme se. (We will take little from this and share.) Hrishikesh this side, from the health point of view, will be better than . . . Aur Srinagar ka pani accha nahi hai. Bahut ganda bhi hai. Tabiyat ke hisab se Ganga ke kinare Rishikesh accha hai. (The water of Srinagar is not good. It is very dirty place also. From the health point of view Rishikesh on the banks of river ganges is ideal.) . . . (indistinct) . . . (Prabhupāda converses with his disciples).

Prabhupāda: Bogilalji, he has got his house near Hrishikesh?

Girirāja: Yeah. I think near Haridwar.

Prabhupāda: So what he recommends there.

Shri Narayan: Hrishikesh is much better.

Prabhupāda: He is there now?

Girirāja: Ah, I'm not sure.

Prabhupāda: So his son is there.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (verse) Kal wo ek idhar kirtan party aaya. 3-400 aadmi aaya, khoob anand hua. sab prasad liya. Hum to bolte hain ki aaplog sab idhar aaiye aur prasad paiiye, kirtan kariye. Aur sab kaam hum karenge. Duniya se bheek maang kar le aayenge, koi mushkil nahi . . . 10 lakh rupaya India me kaun dega. (Yesterday there was a kirtan party here. There were about 3 to 4000 people, they performed kirtana and took prasadam. It was very nice. I would rather say that you all also come here, do kirtana, take prasadam, rest everything we will arrange, if required we will beg for resources, no problem . . . who will give 10 lakh rupees in India.)

Indian Man: Aur 10 lakh ka . . . hoti hai, apka . . . apka jo sahitya hai na Bhagavad-gītā . . . (And 10 lakh . . . is there, The scripture of Bhagavad-gītā which you have . . .)

Prabhupāda: Daily 5-6 lakhs. Nahi net income nahi, sale. Aur mai 10 lakh rupaya mawari le aata hoon ki kharch karne ke liye. donation nahi, (No, not net income, sale. And I bring 10 lakh rupees earnings for our requirements. Not donation.) Sales proceeds from my books.

Indian Man: 10 lakh rupiya mahina, itna aa jata hai. (10 lakh rupees a month, do you get so much?)

Prabhupāda: Kum-se-kum. (That is the least.)

Indian Lady: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Zyada western countries. Idhar kya bechenge. idhar bhi bikta hai, all universities, libraries, professors. Aaiye mataji. Prasad thoda zyada khane ke liye . . . bas ek dafa thoda sa khata hoon, aur raat me thoda doodh pi leta hoon. wo bhi mahina me do-ek bar. Yehi to mushkil ho raha hai, bhojan nahi kar sakte hain. shayad Rishikesh bhi jane se sudhar hoga. (More in western countries. What will we sell here? But also here it sells, in universities, libraries, and professors buy. Come mataji. You should take a little more prasadam . . . just once. I eat a little and at night I have milk. And that too. once or twice a month. This is a major problem, I am not able to eat properly. Probably if I go to Rishikesh my condition might improve.)

Indian Man: Ganga ke kinare jakar. Kashmir me to bahut bheed bhi hota hai aur bahut gandagi hai, pani ka . . . (Near the river ganges. Kashmir is very crowded and it is very dirty. The water . . .)

Prabhupāda: I think Rishikesh will be accha hai (good.) This time is very good

Indian Man: Din me to thoda garam hota hai to din me kya karna hai. (In the mornings it will be a little hot but you don't have much to do in the morning. )

Prabhupāda: Nahi usme koi . . . (No there is no problem . . .)

Indian Man: subah-shaam accha hota hai . . . milega, hawa shuddh hai. (In the morning and evening it is pleasant . . . you will get, the air is very pure.) . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: So for all your difficulties you approach Sri Narayana. Ek udharan sabko pareshani. apko bata raha hoon. Ye jo jagah hai na pehle do aadmi ka . . . tha. us samay municipality 10/5th land, chaura, public road, demarcation kiya. Phir jakarke ek aaadmi usko sab kharid liya, ye hamara pas jo jagah hai. ab wo ek aadmi ka ho gaya, private ho gaya. Ab hum unse kharid liya. ab municipality dekh kar kehta hai ye public road hai. Wo jo demarcation kiya tha wo bolta hai ye public road hai. 2-4 . . . public road bol sakta hai ab to ek aadmi ke pas hai phir public road ka kya sawal hai. (One question which is troublesome for everyone. I am telling you that this place belonged to two people. At that time 10/5 of the land by the municipality, a square, and a public road was demarcated. Then one person, he purchased the entire land, the land that we have now. Now it belonged to one person so it became private property, and then we purchased that piece of land. Now the municipality sees that and says that it is a public road. Your public road is in the campus as of now. 2 to 4 . . . the one who had demarcated it, now says that it is a public road.)

Indian Man: Ye to abhi isi campus me hai apka public road. (Right now your public road is in this campus.)

Prabhupāda: . . . ka koi zaroorat bhi nahi hai . . . (. . . there is no necessity for this . . .) within this campus we have a public road, everything belongs to us . . . questions there are no . . .

Tamal Kṛṣṇa: . . . (indistinct)

Indian Man: Apka koi legal expert bhi hai kya? (Do you have any legal expert?)

Prabhupāda: Koi expert hai nahi. Yehi sab balak log. (We don't have any experts. Only these boys are there.)

Indian Man: . . . itna taklif dete hain yahan ka police wale aur municipality wale. (. . . the police and municipality of this area give us so much trouble.)

Indian man (2): . . . unhone yahan sab thoda gadbad kiya tha . . . (. . . they have messed things up here . . .)

Prabhupāda: Wo abhi tak kar raha. (He is doing it until now.) . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Indian Man: . . . yahan ka Police Commissioner ne likha ki ye jo kirtan aap sab log karte hain is a 'nuisance, public nuisance'. (. . . the police commissioner of this area has written that the kirtan that you are doing is a "nuisance", "public nuisance.")

Indian man (2): Wo wahan . . . dalte hain nachne ki . . . (That there . . . they play music for dancing, that . . .)

Prabhupāda: Wo to gaon hai. (That is a village.)

Indian Man: Wo to bahut bada project hai na 200 crore ka . . . bata rahe the ki wahan tel nahi hai, bijli nahi hai, bailgadi, gay, gobar gas ke dwara prakash aur village industries. Pracheen . . . ke banane ka hai na pura. (That is a very big project of 200 crore . . . they were saying that there is no oil available there, no electricity, bullock carts, cows or light from the gobar gas and village industries. Ancient . . . the whole thing has to be made.)

Prabhupāda: Gandhiji ka jo program tha na village wo program hum bana rahe the ke village me raho santusht ho karke, khoob khao, tandrust raho aur bhagvan ka naam lo. Bas. to aur bhagvan usko upadesh bhi de rahe hain "annad bhavanti bhutani, parjanyad anna sambhavah yagnad bhavati parjanyo" ki jagah chod diya. ye cause, bata diya bhagvan. yagna karo aur samay se badal hoga, matti bheeg jayega aur khoob anna paida karo, khao aur bhagvad bhajan karo. (The program which was being planned by Gandhi. that we are following. Live in the village, be happy, eat well, be healthy and chant the name of the Lord. That is all. God is also advising, "Annad bhavanti bhutani, parjanyad anna sambhavah yagnad bhavati parjanyo". This cause is said by the Lord Himself. So perform sacrifices, there will be timely rains, the soil becomes wet, then grains grow. Eat sumptuously and chant the glories of the Lord.)

Indian Man: Gay ki sewa karo, doodh milega. (Serve the cow and it will give you milk.)

Prabhupāda: Go-raksha. Apka government kanoon karta hai jo jab tak doodh deti hai raksha phir kat dalo. Bhagvan to ye bataye nahi, bahgvan bol rahe hain 'go-raksha' any condition. Go itna important hai ki kewal agar tatti pel le aur mutra tyag kare tabhi fayda hai. isliye bhagvan particularly bataye hain 'go-raksha'; jo mans khane wala hai aur sab kha sakta hai, jasie suar kha sakte hain, bhagvan bataye nahi suar-raksha, dog-raksha, khao, why go (cow)? . . . me wo Gita ke sthan me go-raksha . . . go-hatya, kya interpretation, what do you interpret? Bataiye. (Cow protection. Your government has made the law to protect the cows until it gives milk but then when it is no more useful, kill it. God has not said like this. He says cow protection in any condition. The cow is such an important animal that even the excreta and urine of the cow is so useful. That is why God has said cow protection. Those who want to eat meat can kill dogs, hogs, other small animals and eat them. God has not said pig or dog protection. Why the cow? In the Gita it is mentioned about cow protection and they interpret it as cow killing. What is this interpretation? Tell me.)

Indian Man: Vinobhaji ne jo sankalp kiya to gay ka to pura sanrakshan diya, bail ka bhi de diya, varna kanoon me kya hoga aage. (The promise which was made by Vinobhaji helped to give cow protection. It was given to the bulls also, otherwise what will happen in the law in the days to come.)

Prabhupāda: Go-raksha, any condition. Isiliye as it is, why you amend. (Cow protection, any condition. That is why as it is, why do you amend. That is our protest. (Bhagvan bata diya hai "krishi go-rakshya vanijyam, vaishya karma vibhagajam" shikayat karo aur go-raksha karo, aur to koi gyan nahi suar-raksha, uska mans khana hai khao lekin go ka . . . that is following the sastra. Who wants that? As It Is. Bhagvan bol diya go-raksha karo. Wo hota nahi ulta sabko hatya karo. Nahi-nahi aap aisa mat kijiye. (God has already said in the scriptures "Krishi go-rakshya vanijyam, vaishya karma vibhagajam". Complain and do cow protection, there is no other knowledge like boar protection or dog protection. If you want to eat the meat of these animals, then do it, but why the cows? God has said to protect the cows, that is not happening. So kill all the animals including the cows. No no, you don't do this.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Would they like to wash their hands?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can wash. There is basin. You can wash. Nahi-nahi aap. (No no, don't do it.) No, if you want to wash your hands, this . . . aap takleef mat kijiye. (indistinct aside) utna pani bhi udhar nahi milega. Aap udhar rakh dijiye, aur haat dho lijiye. (Don't take trouble. You will not get so much water there. Keep the plate there and wash your hands.) (break) (to Girirāja) Do you understand what he is saying? You have taken his address?

Girirāja: Yes

Prabhupāda: Baithiye mataji. Mataji aaiyega kabhi. (Please sit mataji. Please visit again.)

Indian Lady: Haan jaroor. Aapka kab ka program hai jane ka? (Yes surely. When are you planning to leave?)

Prabhupāda: Abhi theek nahi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . aur thoda difficulty . . . har tarah se, koi na koi tarah se aake humko pareshan karega. Kya hai ye sab. "Sarpa kroor khala kroor . . ." do kroora hota hai. ek saap hota hai aur ek aadmi. So jo saap jo hai usse bhi dangerous hai ye aadmi kyunki saap ko to mantra se bas me kiya ja sakta hai lekin isko kisi tarah se bas me nahi. (verse) (Nothing is definite now . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . a little difficulty . . . from all sides, they come and trouble us in some way or the other. What is all this "Sarpa kroor khala kroor . . ." There are two types of vicious people. One is the snake, the other is the human being. So a man is more dangerous than the snake because the snake can be brought under control by chanting some mantras but man cannot be brought under control by any means. (verse).)

Indian Man: Inka sab ka parichay accha hai. Corporation ka mayor se, ya chief minister. Mai unko kahoonga unse sampark rakha jaye. Bharat sarkar ka wo mai . . . (He knows everyone very well. With the mayor of the corporation, or chief minister. I will tell them to keep in touch with the people in the office. The Indian government that I will . . .)

Prabhupāda: Did you understand?

Dri Narayan: You understand what I said? Somebody should come with the . . . (indistinct) . . . the literature. Not the whole book, or the book, but some basic literature with a catalog of difficulties which are being faced from the government side. Then it will be easier.

Tamal Kṛṣṇa: yes.

Prabhupāda: For Indian government, he will help you. For local, he will help. For they are our well-wishers. So we approach these two persons for all difficulties.

Indian Man: Yes. We should be kept in touch what the difficulties are. I can talk to Morarji bahi se baat kar sakta hoon, Atal Vihari Vajpayee jo foreign minister hain na unse bhi mera bahut accha parichay hai. (I can talk to Morarji sir. And I also personally know Atal Viahri Vajpayee very well.)

Prabhupāda: Humko thoda protection chahiye. (We need a little protection.)

Indian Man: Kyun nahi, acche kaam ke liye nahi milega to kya matlab hu. Mera khyal hai ki jo pehli government jo thi na Indiraji ki wo do communist bhakt the Rajani Patel . . . ye sab communist log hain. Unko dharm ke naam suhata nahi, abhi hawa badal gayi. Aabhi to communist log ka sab pasa palat gaya. Abhi ye jaankari lene ki zaroorat hai. Jab tak neeche ke officer ko upar se kuch nahi aayega to wohi purana kagaz dekhega. (Why not, for a good cause. If they do not get it then what is the use? My thought is that the government, which was ruling earlier, Indira's rule. The communist devotee was Rajni Patel . . . they are all communists. They have no interest in religion. But the trend has changed now. Now the game of communist has taken a toss. Now we need to collect information. Until such time the lower grade officer does not get any directive from the higher authorities, then he will keep scrutinizing the old documents.)

Prabhupāda: To aap hi ko submit karenge. (Then we will submit the application to you.)

Indian Man: Mujhe dikkat hai to zaroorat hogi to unpe jo bhi file hogi to hum usko clear karwayenge. (I have a problem and if required, then whatever file is there in their name then I will get the file cleared.)

Prabhupāda: Is . . . mai apko submit kar raha hoon. Ye jo hamara dharm sansthan hai iske liye ek hi jagah me kum-se-kum 25-30 aadmi chahiye manage karne ke liye. To 500 jagah me agar 100 aadmi ko formal residence diya jaye to . . . see immediately if you can give . . . to hamara mission se usko formal residency dena chahiye. Aur koi bhi uska dost aaye then he can be deported aur khane ke liye hum bharatvarsh se ek paisa bhi nahi lenge. To is condition me yadi kuch, isko thoda kijiye. (I . . . I am submitting it to you. This spiritual organization, which we have for this, needs at least 25 to 30 people to manage the organization. So in the place of 500 people, 100 people get residency . . . see if you can give it immediately . . . so from our mission, he should get formal residency. And if any of his friends come, then he can be reported and for our essentials we will not take a single paise from India. So under these circumstances if you can do something . . .)

Indian Man: Usme mai samajhta hoon khas dikkat nahi hona chahiye. Abhi jo naye log hain na Atal Vihari Vajpayee vagera wo sab dharmik vritti ke log hain. Rajiv bhai bhi hain. Pehle jo log the na wo bilkul adaharmik log the. Communist log to ye naam nahi suhata hai inko dharm ka. (I feel there should not be any problem. Now the new members who have come in like Atal Viahar Vajpayee and others are all of a spiritual bent of mind. Rajiv sir is also there. The people who were there earlier were all irreligious. The communist people do not tolerate the name of religion.)

Prabhupāda: Godless hain. (They are Godless.)

Indian Man: Wo blitz me likhta tha pehle, apne dekha na. Blitz wala CIA agent hai, ye hai wo hai. Aur mera khyal ye hai ki upar se circular aya hoga. Bus wo circular to inke liye ved-vakya ho jata hai. Government of India ne keh diya ki inse door rehna to wo sab jagah takleef dega. Wo circular badalna chahiye. Upar se badal jayega to upar se bahut si takleef apne aap khatam ho jayengi. Lekin wo ek bar mile mujhe to main madad loonga. Aur mumbai me . . . aur hamari aapse prarthana hai ki aap Rishikesh ki taraf padhariye. Gangaji ke kinare apka nivas rahega to zaroor fayda hoga. (It was written in the Blitz magazine earlier, did you see it? The Blitz person is a CIA agent, he is this, he is that. And in my opinion the circular must have come from the higher authorities. And the circular for them is the final statement, like that of the vedas. The government of India said to keep a distance from these people, so now they will trouble you everywhere. That circular must be changed. If it is changed at a higher level then a lot of problems will be solved automatically. But I have to meet him once so that I can take help from him. And in Mumbai . . . and my request with you is that you please go to Rishikesh. If you stay near the ganges then definitely there will be a change.)

Prabhupāda: Rishikesh mekoi khas jagah me koi kisi ka makan hai. (Does anyone have a house in any special place in Rishikesh?)

Indian Man: Dalmiaji ka bhi hai. Vedantji ka bhi hai. Wahan to bahut ashram hain . . . ka bhi hai . . . acchi jagah hai unka makan. Wo intezam kar denge. Jaydayalji intezam kar denge. Aap wahan padharenge to apki tabiyat zaroor sudhar jayegi. (He has a lot of influence . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . even Dalmia Sir has a house. Vedant sir also has a house. There are many ashrams there . . . he also has . . . his house is situated in a nice place. He will make all the required arrangements. Jaydayal sir will make the arrangements. If you go there then definitely your health will improve.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi hum abhi chale jayenge. Jagah humko milne se hum abhi chale jayenge. Humko ye sehat sudharna hai. (No, we will go now immediately. If we get a place to stay we will go right now. I need to improve my health condition.)

Indian Man: Han bahut zaroori hai. Aur jo apko lage ki . . . mujhe 15 din me itna pharak pada aur yahan ghoom raha tha mai ek mahine yahan kuch nahi hua . . . me bhi aaya pehle bimar pada kuch hua nahi. 15 din me wahan itna antar pad gaya. (Yes it is very necessary. And if you feel that . . . I could feel so much change in 15 days and I was roaming from door to door here but nothing happened. I came earlier when I was sick before but nothing happened.)

Prabhupāda: Bahut meherbani. (I am very grateful to you all.)

Indian Man: Apne itna samay diya. Mai to sirf door se namaskar karke ja raha tha . . . (You gave so much of your valuable time to us. I was just thinking of paying obeisances from far and leaving . . .) (Shri Narayan and his associates leave)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everybody's appreciating this view. All the ladies were standing on the balcony.

Prabhupāda: So immediately contact Jayadal and Dalmia, and he has got a nice house. We go to Hrishikesh immediately. It is very nice. Or Patel.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Or Bhogilal.

Prabhupāda: Then we haven't got to go Kashmir.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So first we'll contact Bhogilal, because he's in the city. If he cannot arrange, then we'll immediately contact Jayadal. Yeah, they're such close friends . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . they'll immediately do.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And Hrishikesh is known to be very good. Gaṅgā is there.

Prabhupāda: So we can go there immediately. That decided.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All right, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hrishikesh is appealing. To drink Ganges water . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: . . . and take bathing in the Ganges.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I immediately feel attracted to going there . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . 'cause it's a holy city. These other places were not so . . . this Hrishikesh is holy city.

Prabhupāda: It is nearer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So tomorrow I'm going into the city, anyway. I'll go and meet either Bhogilal or Pranlal. I have nice acquaintance with them, so I can meet them. Even if Bhogilal is not here, Pranlal is here.

Prabhupāda: One of them can . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He can do also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So I'll make arrangements. Dr. Sharma is waiting for me, Śrīla Prabhupāda, so . .

Prabhupāda: All right, you go now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I should attend.

Prabhupāda: You are free. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)