770626 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770626GI-VRNDAVAN - June 26, 1977 - 46:46 Minutes

(Gurukula Inspection)

Bhagatjī: First the gurukula children are there. We have to see to the comforts of the gurukula children.

Prabhupāda: Their comforts first. They have done very nice.

Devotee: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Ek baat dhyaan se . . . (indistinct) . . . Aap log sab padhao . . . (indistinct) . . . teach. (Keep one thing in mind . . . (indistinct) . . . all of you teach . . . (indistinct) . . . teach.)

Indian Man: Teach. Ab Gurukul. To Gurukul, ki taraf se humara vichar hai . . . (indistinct) . . . paddhati kehti hai usei . . . (indistinct) . . . par nahi hoga koi . . . (indistinct) . . . bithane ka vahi unke liye hoga. (Teach. Now gurukula. So from gurukula's side, our thought process is . . . (indistinct) . . . methodology says that it should . . . (indistinct) . . . but, none will be there . . . (indistinct) . . . for their sitting, it will be there.)

Prabhupāda: Woh to likha hai na, niche . . . (indistinct) . . . bara humble . . . (indistinct) . . . jaise nich log rehte hai, daridra nahin. (That is written below . . . (indistinct) . . . very humble . . . (indistinct) . . . like lower people stay, not poor.)

Indian Man: Nahi nahi. (No, no.)

Prabhupāda: Woh sāstra mein likha hai, niche . . . (indistinct) . . . (That is written in the scriptures, below . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian Man: Acha, jap ke liye kursi nahi? . . . (indistinct) . . . baithane ke liye aur agei ke . . . (indistinct) . . . aur yehi meine plan kiya hai. (Okay, no chair required for chanting? . . . (indistinct) . . . for sitting and for the front . . . (indistinct) . . . and this is what I've planned.)

Prabhupāda: Jyada . . . (indistinct) . . . (More . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian Man: Ji Ji woh nahi. (Yes yes, not that.)

Indian Man: Prabhupāda . . . (indistinct) . . . banwaya hai bacho ke sone ke liye. (made for children to sleep on.) Prabhupada specially prepared for children to sleep . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Brahmacārī gurukule vasan dāntaḥ guror hitan (SB 7.12.1). Woh sikhana chahiye, kis tarah se self control. Asal education yehi hai. Ab dekhiye na pardesh mein aisa (That should be taught, how to have self control. This is real education. Now see in foreign countries this is) . . . (indistinct) . . . universities are producing hippies.

Indian Man: . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Kal ek aya tha . . . (Yesterday one had come . . .) Library in your . . . it is all nonsense. Who is going to read the books, big, big library? It is simply waste of time. Train them how to become self-controlled, how to become God conscious, how to become humble, obedient. This is required. And so-called education and last result is to become a hippie, what is the use? Simply waste of time. Education is meant for the first-class men. A kṛṣana does not require education. He should see how to plow, and he'll learn. This mistrī does not require any . . . he should work with other mistrī, and he'll learn. Architecture, this, that, so many . . . why? Why waste your time? This nice building has been constructed by these laborers. They have got training by seeing, by practice. They did not require university education. Of course, guide is there, of course. So these big, big universities, allowing everyone to come and join school, college—simply wasting time and unemployment. Unemployment. This is not required. Only brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, those who are being trained up as brāhmaṇa and kṣatriya, they should be given book education. Otherwise practical. You see how the things are being done. Bās. A weaver, he sees "kat-kat-kat." He's got it. Does it require M.A. Ph.D.? Simply waste of time. And that is going on. I don't want that, for "kat-kat-kat," M.A. Ph.D. Mosha marte kaman daga. (To kill a mosquito, bring a gun.) "To kill a mosquito, bring a gun." (laughter) Nonsense education. I don't like that education. All right.

Bhagatjī: Kuch humarein kamrei dekhlijye . . . (indistinct) . . . jaha padhaeinge. (Please see some of our rooms . . . (indistinct) . . . where they will study.)

Guṇārṇava: We'll show you the classrooms, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's young man. Anyway, by Kṛṣṇa's grace everything has been done very nice, by endeavor of Bhagatjī. (break)

Indian man (1): Rest, to har ek ladka back rest chahta hai. To thoda sa usei back rest bhi mil jayegi, aur lakdi pe hi baithega aur lakdi par hi . . . (indistinct) . . . (Every boy wants a backrest. So they will get a backrest and they will be sitting on the wood and on the wooden) . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian Man: . . . (indistinct) . . . to woh kalakari ka ek sample hoga. Woh apko pehle approve kara lenge tab woh ( . . . (indistinct) . . . that will be a sample of the craftsmanship. We will get it approved from you and then . . .)

Prabhupāda: Nahi, aap log . . . (indistinct) . . . theek hai. (No, you all . . . (indistinct) . . . alright.)

Guṇārṇava: I'll take the cows later on. I'll take the cows over to Puryanna's. He's out at the gośala. We'll need a lot of milk now.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Milk must be there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the persons in charge, they have one room for residence and then a room for office?

Prabhupāda: Very complete. (background talking, devotees) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Five hundred? Is that your program, Prabhupāda, five hundred boys?

Prabhupāda: At least.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least five hundred.

Devotee: Five hundred students?

Guṇārṇava: The top portion also will be kept for gurukula purposes. We were thinking the brahmacārīs and sannyāsīs should move from the guesthouse and live on the top . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Guṇārṇava: . . . so they can mix with the gurukula?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Why not?

Yaśodānandana: What about householders and ladies?

Dr. Sharma: Ladies should not be . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. Not at all.

Devotee: No ladies. No ladies will be here.

Dr. Sharma: Here is a complete park. Say boys may play or suppose some function. Here complete and all, outside this, garden.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where will the garden be?

Dr. Sharma: This side. All this center will be a lawn. And then we'll have a garden this side. There must be very full of . . .

Devotee: Like they have in Māyāpur in front of the building.

Devotee (2): Should be beautiful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You don't want gardens?

Dr. Sharma: We don't want gardens because mosquitos and so many things will be during . . .

Prabhupāda: Garden to pakka hai. (Garden is definitely required.)

Dr. Sharma: Flowers we'll have, but not . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Sharma, let Prabhupāda give his idea. What was your idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, here garden must be here. We want flowers.

Dr. Sharma: Small, say.

Prabhupāda: Flower.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants gardens.

Prabhupāda: Not big tree.

Dr. Sharma: Not big tree. Just for flower bed. In the middle we'll keep the fountain, and all around the fountain . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fountain in the middle, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Garden must be there. And all around, pathway. Very good.

Dr. Sharma: All around, pathway. Just for five or six meters, around the building. That will be a pathway.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Bhagatjī: But Swāmījī, the fountain or the garden should be in the center or in one corner?

Prabhupāda: No, center.

Bhagatjī: The center of this . . .

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big fountain in the center, just like in your garden there's a big fountain.

Prabhupāda: That will be soothing also.

Bhagatjī: Cooling.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let's go. (break)

Dr. Sharma: One āśrama teacher can supervise all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The advantage of a big room is that one teacher can watch over many children at one time.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Guṇārṇava: And also, the other side of the room, right along the whole wing, we have a veranda with doors on the other side, so you can just keep going in and out, in and out, along the side.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But do the verandas connect? Does it go all the way there.

Guṇārṇava: Yes. It's all connected. It's all one.

Prabhupāda: So bank building is down?

Guṇārṇava: Bank building is downstairs.

Prabhupāda: So we can go down.

Guṇārṇava: We'll go downstairs to the bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are the upstairs rooms like? Like these rooms?

Guṇārṇava: Yeah, same size as this.

Devotee (3): Smaller sizes.

Guṇārṇava: Varied sizes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want to see one or two rooms upstairs? They're different than this.

Prabhupāda: No . . . different?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're smaller sized.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Guṇārṇava: Not so small. (break) Other side is east.

Dr. Sharma: Winter mein Prabhupada yaha . . . (indistinct) . . . (During the winters here . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: This is southern.

Dr. Sharma: This? This is south. This is south, this is north, this is east, this is west.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which is east?

Dr. Sharma: This is east.

Prabhupāda: All right. In winter it will be very good.

Indian man: Very, very good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It'll be warm in the winter.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll get warmth from it.

Prabhupāda: Morning sunlight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Tremendous building, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I think there is no other building in Vṛndāvana.

Guṇārṇava: It's the biggest building in Vṛndāvana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You've done it again, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I gave the ideas to Saurabh: "Make a design."

Guṇārṇava: It's very protected, too, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People will compare this to a fort.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All right.

Guṇārṇava: Go down to the bank. Go downstairs to the bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Let's go.

Prabhupāda: You have asked the bank manager?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Akṣayānanda Mahārāja, have you asked the bank manager to come here?

Akṣayānanda: Yeah, he's coming.

Prabhupāda: When?

Akṣayānanda: He's notifying us. (aside) What time he said?

Indian man (4): I don't know. I am going now.

Akṣayānanda: You're going now.

Indian man (4): At ten o'clock. (break)

Akṣayānanda: . . . is here. I wanted to keep my office here. (break)

Prabhupāda: "And that is mine." Because you have got enough space, "I shall keep one leg in another place, one leg in another place," and then whole thing will be planning. Don't do this. Don't misuse even one thing.

Akṣayānanda: Just take what is necessary.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Properly utilize. Kyu? (what do you think?) Everything should be properly utilized. That is management, to not mix even.

Guṇārṇava: You were saying you wanted five hundred students, so we should keep as much space as possible for the students . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guṇārṇava: . . . on these floors. If we have administrative offices mixing . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to invite them. Otherwise what is the use, for four students, such a building? And simply managers? That is not good. There must be students, not that four students and three dozen managers.

Guṇārṇava: No.

Prabhupāda: It has no . . . that is waste. Then the whole thing is waste. There must be five hundred students and ten managers. That's all. Then it is good. Is that all right? Mr. Sharma?

Dr. Sharma: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Teachers should be so expert that they can deal with many students.

Prabhupāda: Now your business is bring students. That is first duty. Let people be convinced. Before going to the foreign countries, I had a very bad experience. I asked so many men to give students, Vedic students. "Swāmījī, yeh sab karke kya hoyega. (Swāmījī, what will happen by doing all this.) We have to earn money." Nobody wants that the children should be honest, brāhmaṇa, brahmacārī. Nobody wants. He wants all thieves, rogues, cunning cheater, "So the money bring." That is the difficulty. So you have to face this difficulty. But try to. Koi chahta nahi hai (no one wants this . . . (indistinct) . . .) Loafer class, śūdra, they want . . . (indistinct) . . . still, keep an ideal institution. That experience I had, when, before going foreign countries, I tried, all friends: "Swāmījī, yeh sab se kya, . . . (indistinct) . . ." ("Swāmījī, with this what will . . . (indistinct) . . .")

Dr. Sharma: Indians also? Or foreigners?

Prabhupāda: Indians. Foreigners, they were hippies; they come.

Akṣayānanda: Before he went to America.

Prabhupāda: Therefore, being disappointed here, I went to America.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means we have to canvass vigorously to get students.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: We have to preach.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. Keep place ready, but you have to bring students.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to come of their own. We have to go out and get them.

Prabhupāda: They will come later on, when they will see: "Yes . . ."

Yaśodānandana: First we have to get the ISKCON students first.

Prabhupāda: ISKCON or FISKCON, bring students. (laughter)

Dr. Sharma: Prabhupāda, these students can come, any number you like.

Prabhupāda: So that I want. I want the number. It doesn't matter ISKCON or FISKCON.

Dr. Sharma: No, I mean to say, free, no charge.

Prabhupāda: That means they'll not come from such a good family.

Dr. Sharma: Good family. That is the idea.

Guṇārṇava: They'll be low class.

Prabhupāda: So that you cannot do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Those people don't need that education so much.

Prabhupāda: They should be trained up in the field, to the weaving practice or something like that. They don't require education.

Akṣayānanda: Intelligent class.

Prabhupāda: Intelligent class. We cannot make them interested. Some of them may come out, but not all. It is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes wealthy people are afraid that if their sons come to this gurukula, they'll become sādhus. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So that I am seeing, how to . . .

Akṣayānanda: This is the actual problem.

Prabhupāda: That was the problem. They said: "What will be the benefit, becoming satyavādī?" Satya śamo damo titikṣa, jñāna . . . (indistinct) . . . kya hoga,bacha kama nahi sakega marega bhuka. (. . . (indistinct) . . . what will happen, the child won't be able to earn and will die hungry.) So culture is lost. That is the difficulty.

Indian man (4): The other day two parents have come, and they have said, "We will give our two boys and let them be first class, for the school here."

Prabhupāda: Woh apke liye hai, (coughing) ki aisa ideal banaiye ki admi sab . . . (indistinct) . . . Ek se do rakh sakte ho. . . (indistinct) . . . (coughing). Yeh jo rakshasi civilisation hai, lao rupya,lao rupya ,lao rupya, lao rupya aur knowledge kuch nahi. Third class knowledge. Isi ko bhagwan sikha raha hai tatha dehantara-praptir (BG 2.13). Arei do,char crore rupya sab kamaya fir sabhi palat diya . . . fir tumhara kaha reh gaya sab? Yehi to samajhta . . . Woh to eternal life hi nahi samajh raha hai na. Isei jiwan mein, jo kuch bhog kar lo, maja karo. (That is for you . . . (coughs) to create such an ideal, that all men . . . (indistinct) . . . you can keep one or two . . . (indistinct) . . . (coughs) This demonic civilisation is basically, get money, get money, get money, get money and no knowledge. Third class knowledge. This is what God is teaching tatha dehantara-praptir (BG 2.13). If twenty or forty million rupees are earnt and then everything collapses . . . then where is all that you had? This is to be understood . . . they are not understanding eternal life. In this life, whatever is there, enjoy it, have fun.) This is the defect of modern civilization. And Kṛṣṇa wants to impress in the beginning, na jāyate na mriyate vā. Uska janam nahi hota, maran nahi hota. (He does not take birth, nor does he die.) Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Kuch nahin samajht. Na Gita padta. Yehi to mushkil. Kuch samajhta nahi. Gita ka ek line bhi samajhta nahin, aur bolta hai hum Gita padh rahein hai. Das dafe Gita pad liya. Uska to, problem tumhara hai Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Yeh sharir nasht ho gaya, fir tumko kya janam milega? uska to hisab kitab lagao. Woh dekha jayega. (Does not understand anything. Does not read the Gītā. This is the difficulty. Doesn't understand anything. Does not even understand one line of the Gītā and says I'm reading the Gītā. I've read the Gītā ten times. His problem is na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Once this body is destroyed, then what birth will you get? That calculation should be done. That will be seen.) This darkness is going on. People are kept in darkness in the name of so-called university education. This is . . . Yeh sab baat hai . . . (indistinct) . . . vichar kijye. Ek ideal institution khada kijye Vrindavan mein, India mein. (All these things are there . . . (indistinct) . . . think about it. Erect an ideal institution in Vṛndāvana, in India.) It will be successful. It may take time. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Saraswati . . . (indistinct) . . . band karo (close it . . . (indistinct) . . .) You are thinking of management—this manager, that manager. But who to manage? Bring that first. Boliye Sharmaji (What do you say Sharmaji?) (Bengali proverb) In Bengali there is a superstition that, "Don't keep your head towards the northern side." So the man said, "I have no head. Where is the question of keeping northern side or southern side?" So you are contemplating all management. First of all bring how to . . . whom to manage. Simply office manager, this, that and . . . bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā . . . (indistinct) . . . bahut kaam kiya. Yeh nahi ho sakta. Boliye Sharmaji. (. . . (indistinct) . . . done a lot of work. This can't be done. What do you say Sharmaji.)

Dr. Sharma: Nahi, aap sahi keh rahe hai. (No, you are correct.)

Prabhupāda: Bambhārambhe . . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . bhi hoye aur kaam bhi. (. . . (indistinct Hindi) . . . also happens and works too.) All right.

Guṇārṇava: (aside) Take Prabhupāda to the bank.

Prabhupāda: Utilize it very properly. So where is the bank manager?

Akṣayānanda: They're calling for him, Prabhupāda. They're calling for him now.

Prabhupāda: So calling from yesterday, but still . . . calling? Then let me talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is also very nice for the bank. I mean, they get a whole front courtyard.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice, wonderful. They are . . . in this side, they can make counter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Plenty of space for a bank.

Prabhupāda: I'll talk with . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, even Punjab National Bank downtown doesn't have this big an office.

Prabhupāda: No.

Guṇārṇava: It's bigger than the downtown office of Punjab National Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the banks.

Devotee: It's bigger than any bank.

Guṇārṇava: It's big.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him come. I shall talk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya. Do you want us . . . is there anything else to see on this . . .?

Prabhupāda: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's all.

Prabhupāda: And very nice.

Guṇārṇava: Jaya. Glories to Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Now, the first thing is, bring student. Then it will be successful, very good.

Guṇārṇava: Jaya Prabhupāda. (kīrtana) (end)