751220 - Morning Walk - Bombay
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada
Prabhupāda: Suppose if you come from other side and you land on Arabian desert, does it mean that you have gone . . .
Indian man: They have gone on earth, some other part of the place . . .
Prabhupāda: And I say they have not gone to moon. That is my point. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: They have become "moonies."
Prabhupāda: They might have gone to some hell, that is, I have no objection.
Indian man: Or the moon or anything.
Prabhupāda: Huh? (laughing) This is a little revol . . . revolting. But I am speaking from the very beginning. Yes, I wrote that Easy Journey to Other Planets in 1958, and you'll find this statement in my book. This is all childish.
Dr. Patel: You have to be yogī for that.
Prabhupāda: I am yogī because I am taking lessons from the yogīs . . .
Dr. Patel: Yoga dhāraṇā.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yogī . . . I am taking lesson from Śukadeva Gosvāmī. I may be fool, but I am taking lesson from the yogī. Yes. So yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ tatra śrīr bhūtir (BG 18.78). I don't require to be a yogī. I take shelter of the yogeśvara.
Dr. Patel: Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47).
Prabhupāda: So, my problem, there is no problem, because as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa, śrīr, vibhūtir, victory, everything is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we have got everything, but I am not a yogī. We must believe in the words of Bhagavad-gītā: yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ tatra śrīr vibhūtir vijayo. Everything is there. That art we have to learn, that let us become dependent like Arjuna upon Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there.
Dr. Patel: Kṛṣṇaḥ sarva-bhūtanāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61).
Prabhupāda: Yes, and He teaches also . . .
Dr. Patel: You consult Kṛṣṇa evidently before you do . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, but Kṛṣṇa is not so foolish that He will give consultation to the nondevotees.
Dr. Patel: He'll give consultation free of charge . . .
Prabhupāda: No, free of charge to the devotee. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīthi-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). One who is constantly engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service, to him He gives intelligence, not to the rascals. Kṛṣṇa is there, but—even in the heart of the pig or dog—but He does not give any instruction to the pig and dog. They must suffer. But only to the devotees: teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam. To them. Otherwise Kṛṣṇa is staying everywhere.
Dr. Patel: To them He gives yoga-kṣema.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is open to even cats and dog. You'll get your food. They're getting their food. That is not very difficult thing. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Kṛṣṇa is. . . Kṛṣṇa, He can, ah, bhū-bhṛt, bhūta-bhṛt. His name is bhūta-bhṛt. He is maintaining everyone.
Dr. Patel: Bhūta-bhṛt, bhūtastho.
Prabhupāda: Bhūta-bhṛt means sab palan karna (. . . all living entities are being maintained.)
Dr. Patel: But He is bhūtastho also.
Prabhupāda: That is also, but another name is bhūta-bhṛt. He maintains all living entities. So that is not a very difficult job.
Dr. Patel: But sir, I want to ask a question. In Bhagavad-gītā He says, "I am in them, and I am not in them also." That means, sir, both His . . . all the beings are in the . . .
Prabhupāda: No, "not in them" for the understanding of these rascals whose takes it that because Nārāyaṇa is everyone, heart, then everyone is Nārāyaṇa, daridra-nārāyaṇa.
Dr. Patel: Not daridra.
Prabhupāda: Or to warn these rascals, He says, "I am not there. I am not there."
Dr. Patel: It is not like that, that He is there . . .
Prabhupāda: Because he is a foolish man, if you say, "Because Nārāyaṇa is there, everyone is Nārāyaṇa," he will misunderstand. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "No, I am not there." Nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). This is the . . .
Dr. Patel: Would it not be considered like this, sir, that He is in the Goloka as well as here?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Goloka, position of . . . Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātmā-bhūto (Bs. 5.37), that is Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Akhilātmā-bhūto.
Prabhupāda: Akhilātmā-bhūta. But don't take that because akhilātmā bhūta, Nārāyaṇa is in the dog, therefore I have to worship dog. This is going on. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. And why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? What is the . . . this foolishness is going on. And Nārāyaṇa is everywhere. If you have such a, I mean to say, advanced vision, that Nārāyaṇa is everywhere—that is also mentioned, therefore you should keep respect—then why do you make discrimination, that only daridra-nārāyaṇa? Why not dhanī-nārāyaṇa?
Indian man: Last time you gave the example of the curd and the milk. That was very good example.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why the . . . not dhanī-nārāyaṇa? Or the dog Nārāyaṇa or the goat Nārāyaṇa? Goat Nārāyaṇa, cut his throat—fish Nārāyaṇa, cut his throat . . .
Dr. Patel: Ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu, sir.
Prabhupāda: These rascals are going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "I am not there, nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ," to teach these rascals. Otherwise, they'll misunder . . .
Dr. Patel: Does it not mean, sir, that nāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ, "I am staying in Goloka"?
Prabhupāda: No, no. He says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam (BG 9.4), "I am everywhere, but still I am not there." Because these rascals will misunderstand.
Dr. Patel: It seems ambiguous to understand, sir.
Prabhupāda: Not ambiguous. It requires knowledge from the guru.
Dr. Patel: So we have come.
Prabhupāda: If you manufacture your own knowledge, then you'll never be able to understand. (everyone laughs) Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12): compulsory. You cannot understand; that is not possible. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that the honey, huh? Honey, honey, if somebody says, "Take this honey," the bottle, and he began to lick up the bottle: "It is not sweet. Now why it is not sweet?" You go to a person who can open the bottle. (laughter) Then you'll see. You cannot taste the sweetness of honey by licking up the bottle. It must be . . . there must be some expert who can open it, and then you can taste. So they are trying to taste the honey in the bottle by their own imagination and licking up the bottle. Where is the taste? Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa says,
- tad viddhi praṇipātena
- paripraśnena sevayā
- upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
- jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
- (BG 4.34)
One who has seen, one who knows where is the honey is there, go there, and he'll open, and you'll understand.
Dr. Patel: So "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for you," like that, is that the meaning you say?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Dr. Patel: "I am not there for the rascals, and I am there for those who are tattva-darśanas."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. That is the way of learning everything. You cannot learn your medical science from a pān-walla. You have to go to a medical college.
Dr. Patel: They also give some . . . (indistinct) . . . in the pān.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot take your degree from the pān-walla.
Dr. Patel: No.
Prabhupāda: Nowadays, some of the rascals, they are preaching openly that you haven't got to go to a guru. Huh? Is it not?
Indian man: Krishnamurti is . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes, this rascal was speaking like that.
Devotee: He has thousands of disciples.
Prabhupāda: Such kind of . . . as he is.
Dr. Patel: Nehi, kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum. He is a jagat-guru, if you approach Him also, there is no, I mean physical guru nearby. Kṛṣṇaṁ jagat-gurum, kṛṣṇaṁ vande jagat-gurum.
Prabhupāda: Yes . . .
Dr. Patel: He is jagat-guru . . .
Prabhupāda: . . . you have to go to Kṛṣṇa not directly: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. You have to go through the devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Patel: Prasaṅgam ajaraṁ pāśam ātmanaḥ kavayo viduḥ sa eva sādhuṣu kṛto mokṣa-dvāram apāvṛtam (SB 3.25.20).
Prabhupāda: That is ādau śraddhā (CC Madhya 23.14-15). If you have got faith in Kṛṣṇa, then next stage is tato sādhu-saṇgaḥ. And who is sādhu? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). So if you want to see Kṛṣṇa, you have to see first of all His devotee. Mād bhaktyā pūjā bhudhikaḥ. This is also . . . "If you worship My devotee, that is better worship than worshiping Me directly." Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). He doesn't say by kṛṣṇa-kṛpā; He says guru-krpā first. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja.
Dr. Patel: Gurur brahma, gurur viṣṇuḥ, they say that.
Śravanānanda: Some Life Members . . . (indistinct) . . . completely ridiculous. They will worship anything as God, so in every temple they go in they would pay their obeisances, and if there is some tree, they will pay their obeisances; if there is some stones or brick, and it is covered with kuṁkuma and turmeric, they would also pay their obeisances.
Prabhupāda: So, what is the question?
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) . . . your answer is all right. Gurur brahma gurur viṣṇuḥ. So I mean that is the philosophy of . . .
Prabhupāda:
- sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair
- yuktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ
- kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya
- vande guroḥ śrī caraṇāravindam
In every śāstra you'll find, just like you say, gurur brahma gurur viṣṇuḥ. In other words, sākṣād-haritvena, directly Hari.
Dr. Patel: Sākṣād-hari.
Prabhupāda: Sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair. Not that in a particular. . . In all the śāstra. And sākṣād-haritvena samasta-śāstrair yukta, "It is said," tathā, bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, "and this is accepted by all authorities."
Dr. Patel: Sadbhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sadbhiḥ. Not asadbhiḥ. Asadhbhi says, "No, no. I don't require a guru. You make me guru." If I don't require a guru, then why, you rascal, you are speaking this? You are teaching. Why you are teaching me?
Lokanātha: Last night's question on that . . .
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you don't require a guru, then why you are teaching me, if you don't require a guru? (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. These people, they say like that. "You don't require guru. You don't require a book to study—everything is there, within."
Dr. Patel: That is one of the . . .
Prabhupāda: Why you are writing book? Everything is within. All right, but why you are writing book to teach them? And why you are teaching them there is no need of guru? That means you want to be guru. All other gurus useless. Just see.
Dr. Patel: They, they'll say that their mind is a part of the samasti mind, and you . . .
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, I require your help to understand it. Therefore you become my guru. If I require your help to understand something, that is guru. And you say there is no need of guru. Then why you are taking trouble to teach me this nonsense?
Dr. Patel: If . . . the guru is necessity right from the birth. The first guru is the mother . . .
Prabhupāda: And these rascals, they preach like that: there is no need of guru.
Dr. Patel: I think they are wrong.
Prabhupāda: Rascals simply, not only wrong.
Dr. Patel: They are rascals, sir.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Simply rascals. Rascals means he does not know the thing, and he still preaches. Therefore rascal.
Dr. Patel: That is how that Bhagavan has made so many gurus. . .
Prabhupāda: A guru. . .. Guru must be there.
Dr. Patel: How many gurus that to make a . . . (indistinct) . . .? Do you know?
Prabhupāda: There are many, they say like that—"There is no need of guru."
Indian man: But do you have to make an effort to get a. . . to achieve a sad-guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Praṇipāta means you have to surrender there. So you are not a fool. When you submit somewhere, you must test, and then submit. That is sad-guru.
Dr. Patel: They say, sir, that if you are very sincere, then the sad-guru comes automatically to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: As you have come to us.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because Kṛṣṇa is there, if He sees somebody is actually serious to understand Him—just like Dhruva Mahārāja. Dhruva Mahārāja, he did not make any guru, but with fervent desire he went, "Yes, I shall find out Kṛṣṇa." Mother said, "Kṛṣṇa can be found in the forest," so he went to the forest, and he began according to his own way. Then Kṛṣṇa sent Nārada Muni, that "This boy is very serious. Go and give him real mantra." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Two things required: guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. Mālī hañā sei bīja koro āropana. "I have got some seed of bhakti, and I keep it in the iron chest." No. You must make cultivation of bhakti-bīja: mālī hañā sei bīja koro āropana. And how to nourish the bīja? Śravaṇa-kīrtana-jale karaye śecana (CC Madhya 19.152): by śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Water is this. Then the bhakti-latā will come out a tree, and you will get the fruits and enjoy.
Dr. Patel: Smaraṇam kīrtanam . . . pada pūjānam. Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kīrtanam, arcanam, vandanam, dāsyam . . .
Dr. Patel: Kīrtanam, vandanam, dāsyam, sakhyam ātmā-nivedanam.
(kīrtana as Prabhupāda approaches temple) (end)
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