751129 - Morning Walk - Delhi

Morning Walks by Date, 1975

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

751129MW-DELHI - November 29, 1975 - 47:38 Minutes

Prabhupāda: And he said: "Hare Kṛṣṇa"?

Caitaguru: Yes. "Hare Kṛṣṇa." He said: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." And he told me that "You come later on, and we will sit and talk."

Prabhupāda: So go and sit and talk. What is his gṛha?

Caitaguru: His wife, she is very devoted. She has a small Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. She is little bit . . . (indistinct)

Tejiyas: He is a very dirty man. His wife sometimes likes to give even a little flower, and she is afraid he will beat her if she gives anything to the temple. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . sign? Rāmacandra?

Tejiyas: Garuḍa and Hanumān.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Tejiyas: Rāmacandra, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Garuḍa and Hanumān. (break)

Prabhupāda: Unnecessarily there are so many parties, and they fight one another. This is democracy. Today is Ekādaśī?

Tejiyas: Today.

Prabhupāda: From the moon it can be made. (break)

Haṁsadūta: . . . then the sun, it must be bigger than the sun.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Haṁsadūta: This moon planet must be a bigger planet than the sun if it's further away, because it appears bigger.

Prabhupāda: It does not look bigger than the sun. May be bigger. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

(break) . . . kalākendra. So many kalākendras. Kalā means cheating, kalā. In Bengal, when it is called kalā, kalā deki dichi, means cheating . . . Tum Bengali jante ho? (Do you know Bengali?) I think in other countries also somewhere, they do so that, "I cannot do anything." Eh? In your country do they not like showing this thumb?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Devotee (2): What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: In India it is. Means, "You are useless. You could not do anything."

Passerby: Good morning, sir.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are so many kalākendras, but no kendra for understanding ātmā. Huh? Apaśyatam ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). In Bhāgavata it is said, apaśyatam. They do not know what is ātma-tattvam, these rascals. Gṛheṣu gṛhamedhīnam. Apaśyatam ātma-tattvam. These rascals, they do not know ātma-tattva, the science of self-realization. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They have been . . . simply external. They are giving importance to the music, but the person who is playing the music, he has no information. He is thinking this tongue is vibrating music. Such a rascal. If the tongue is vibrating music, then why, he is dead, why the tongue does not play music anymore? And the ear is there. Why he does not hear any more music? If this body is all, then the body is there, the tongue is there, the ear is there—why there is no response of the music? Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam. And these rascals, they do not know who is the person who is singing and who is hearing. Therefore they have been called as mūḍhas. Who is singing, who is hearing, he does not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvaṁ gṛheṣu gṛhamedhīnam.

Devotee (1): You were saying in Mauritius that they are imperfect and they are taking advice from the imperfect. Therefore very difficult for them to understand, because they don't take advice from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) . . . apaśyatām. They cannot see. They see only that the tongue is vibrating, the ear is hearing. And the dead man, the same ear is there, the tongue is there. Why there is no music? What they will answer?

Tejiyas: They say it's a chemical interaction.

Prabhupāda: What is that chemical? Eh? Why talk nonsense? Chemical reaction? Bring that chemical and let him hear again. What is the answer? Why do they say nonsense which he does not know? Chemical reaction, if it is chemical reaction, bring chemical and inject it. What is the answer?

Harikeśa: That chemical is very complicated. They haven't found . . .

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. First of all admit you are talking nonsense. The chemical you do not know. Still you are talking nonsense. Therefore you are rascal. Why do you talk nonsense if you do not know? What is the answer? If you do not know, why do you talk just like wise man? Then you are a nonsense. Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś . . . (BG 2.11). You are talking like a very learned scientist, but you are a rascal, fool. Challenge them like that.

Tejiyas: They think that today they do not know . . .

Prabhupāda: "They think."

Tejiyas: . . . but tomorrow, they think, will know.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascal point. Therefore I say: "Kick them on their face tomorrow." He's offering postdated check. (laughter) Eh? Even if you are coming of a very millionaire's family, but if you give me a check postdated, shall I accept it? A sane man? No. Bring cash, then talk. (laughter) So these rascals, they have no cash. They have got only paper, postdated check. And who will accept it unless one is another fool, rascal, another rascal.

Tejiyas: They are bluffing.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Bluffing business goes on when there are many rascals. You can bluff the rascals, not the intelligent man. Who is cheated? One who is a rascal, he is cheated. Not the intelligent man is cheated.

Harikeśa: They should have their salaries paid by postdated check.

Prabhupāda: No, they will not accept that. That they will not accept.

Harikeśa: "In the future we will pay you."

Tejiyas: When you find the chemicals.

Prabhupāda: "Now you starve. In future I shall pay." "How shall I eat?" "Now you starve. In future you'll get payment." You do not know what is the chemical, how it is acting, and depending on your future knowledge, and still, you are talking like a very great scientist. This rascaldom should be stopped by kicking on their face. Huh? So? Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, do you agree?

Ambarīṣa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. (break) . . . if they know the chemicals, why they open deaf and dumb school? Let the chemical be injected and they will be cured from dumbness and deafness. And where is that chemical? Hmm?

Harikeśa: I mean, after all, isn't it just a matter of time, because we've already invented new skin now.

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom. Again rascaldom.

Harikeśa: Yes, but just think of what we've already done. We've made new skin.

Prabhupāda: What you have done? What you have done? A man . . . a man is . . .

Harikeśa: I tell you, we've made new skin. If somebody gets burned we can put new skin on.

Prabhupāda: A man, when he is blind, what you can do? You can simply make some experiment. Then you say: "We tried. We could not do it."

Harikeśa: Ah, but now we're putting in new eyeballs.

Prabhupāda: That cannot see. (laughter) That is another . . . so how they are bluffing, just see.

Harikeśa: In Russia they've made dogs with two heads. They've put another head on a dog in Russia, and now the dog has two heads.

Tejiyas: Really?

Harikeśa: Yes.

Ambarīṣa: Such advancement.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Ambarīṣa: Such advancement, a two-headed dog.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Eventually they're going to try to have men with two heads. They first experiment with animals and then try it on men.

Prabhupāda: Therefore Rāvaṇa had ten heads, and he was killed in spite of ten heads. Still, he could not save himself from the hands of Rāma, although he had ten heads. He thought that, "I have now ten heads. Who can be more intelligent than me?" And still, Rāmacandra proved, "Yes, I am better intelligent than you." (break) . . . Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan?

Tejiyas: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . even though we're here. Kalākendra.

Prabhupāda: What is that, here?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You said there's a kendra everywhere, kalā.

Prabhupāda: Kalā means this. (laughter) Ei kalā. (break) Prabhākāra was working here. He was employed here. He was staying on that room, so I also stayed with him two days. (break) . . . count of his unsteadiness he has lost so many good jobs. I do not know. . .

Tejiyas: Some man was telling me that . . . one M.P. was telling me that there are many criminal cases against him also now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How did you find that out?

Tejiyas: He told me. I don't know why. This Dr. Lokeschandra? He told me that, "Ācārya Prabhākāra has many criminal cases against him." (break)

Prabhupāda: Which way we have to go?

Tejiyas: This way, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotee (1): There was a poster on the wall, said they are opening a big exhibition of Russian books in Punjab, and the chief minister, he is going to open that.

Prabhupāda: Many books?

Devotee (1): Big exhibition of Russian books.

Prabhupāda: Russian books. Oh.

Devotee (1): They are teaching the Russian culture all over India. They are not . . .

Prabhupāda: So why don't you exhibit our books? Let them come to competition. What books we have, compare with our books.

Devotee (1): What they say is that this philosophy is very old. They say that this philosophy is very old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So we are giving old wine in new bottle. If it is old, why the up-to-date Western boys are taking? It may be old for you rascals, but those who are intelligent . . .

Devotee (1): They think that they are frustrated. They have nothing more to do except this.

Prabhupāda: Then why they take this? Why not your philosophy? Why they take this philosophy? Why not the Russian philosophy?

Devotee (1): They are going to take. That's the reason they are putting the Russian books.

Harikeśa: Well, lots of people take the Russian philosophy.

Prabhupāda: No, they are exhibiting here in India, but why in Europe, America they are not taking?

Harikeśa: But there are many Marxists in America. Like on the subway . . .

Prabhupāda: Many Marxists, there are many capitalists. That is another thing. But why the Russians could not make everyone Marxist in spite of so much propaganda? What is the basic principle of Russian philosophy?

Ambarīṣa: What is the basic principle?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Follow the teachings of Marx.

Prabhupāda: No, no. What is that teaching?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything belongs to the state.

Ambarīṣa: The worker is supreme.

Haṁsadūta: Everyone should work for the state, and the state will distribute fairly.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: The basis of the philosophy is that matter is supreme.

Ambarīṣa: And all matter is the same.

Prabhupāda: Matter is supreme. Then why the matter does not move independently?

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: That they have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Then? Then another rascal. If matter is supreme, why don't you combine matter and let it move. So what is that supreme which is moving this matter? If they do not know, then again a rascal, in spite of so much philosophy and so much Communism. Why, when Stalin and Lenin died, they simply remained matter? Why it was not moving? Where is that matter?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That they are working on.

Prabhupāda: Again the same rascal. Again another rascal. They are working; therefore we must be satisfied. Postdated check. How you say all these things?

Harikeśa: Well, their philosophy is just a social philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is not perfect.

Harikeśa: They say: "From everybody according to their means, and to everybody according to their needs." As you work . . .

Prabhupāda: Then why there are so many enemies? Why the Americans do not like them, Chinese do not like them?

Devotee (3): Now they write in the mod . . . I see in the modern textbook in the Delhi schools. They make counterproposal. They said: "Because the Indian philosophy is not so perfect, India has become economically backwards on account of following the . . ."

Prabhupāda: What economical backwards?

Devotee (3): They say India is very poor country.

Prabhupāda: No. Indians economical backwards because they have given up their own culture. When India was actually standing on the old culture, they were never defeated. Even the Muhammadans, they ruled over India for eight hundred years, but they could not defeat the Indian culture. But the British government are clever. They spoiled the Indian culture. Therefore they are poverty-stricken. Otherwise, if India would have continued in his own culture . . . the Gandhi started the boycott movement. So Indian culture automatically boycotted anything foreign. We know in our childhood nothing foreign-made could be used in some ceremony. Even this cloth, it must be country-made, that, what is called?

Haṁsadūta: Khādi.

Prabhupāda: Khādi, yes. No mill-made cloth can be used. That was Indian culture. They would not touch even foreign medicine. Dr. Bose, Kartik Chandra Bose, he told me that, "You do not know how much we had to flatter to accept this British medicine." They would not touch quinine, anything foreign-made. This was Indian culture.

Harikeśa: Well, the basic flaw with Indian culture is that some people are very rich and some people are very poor.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then why in your country there are hippies lying on the street? Why? Why they have accepted poverty?

Harikeśa: Well, that's a temporary thing.

Prabhupāda: India is poor and rich, and why they are voluntarily poor?

Harikeśa: That was because they were all intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that there is no poor. There is voluntarily poor. You cannot say there is no poor.

Harikeśa: Well, in our Russian system we are trying to abolish that poor by making . . . take money from the rich.

Prabhupāda: Again that, "We are trying to abolish." The postdated check again.

Ambarīṣa: In Russia, everyone is poor.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is poor.

Harikeśa: But at least they're equal.

Prabhupāda: Well, when you become poor, then naturally it is equal. There is no rich man. Naturally you become equal. If everyone is fool, then everyone is equal. That's all.

Harikeśa: But everybody in Russia is so strong.

Prabhupāda: What is that strong?

Harikeśa: They can lift all kinds of weight and fight very strongly. Very strong people. So they're not starving.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they are stronger than the lions and the elephant? Are they stronger than these animals? Are they? Are the Russians stronger than the elephant and the lion?

Harikeśa: But they're stronger than the Europeans.

Prabhupāda: Then the lion is better than them. The elephant is better than them. Why do you call them, "They are animals"? They are better situated. One lion can kill hundreds of Russians. Then lion is better than the Russian? You have to accept that.

Harikeśa: I mean, but they're not poor, because they're so, you know, they're well fed.

Prabhupāda: There everyone is poor, begging. You are talking theoretically. I went to Moscow. The taxi driver was wanting something excess. They are so poor, begging, "Give me something more." They are so poor. Most of the people, they are walking on the street. There is no taxi. Nobody can pay for taxi. This is their situation.

Harikeśa: Yes, but why should somebody be rich and I be poor? What gives him the right to have money?

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. That is called, that . . . he is born in a rich family, I am born in a poor family. So why this is happening?

Harikeśa: Yeah, that's unfair. I mean, I should take his money.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not unfair. This is nature's arrangement, uccavacca. Why one has become animal? Why one has become man? The same living entity.

Harikeśa: Chance.

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ (BG 13.22). The chance is that you are rascal, fool—you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease, you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the ex . . ." is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.

Harikeśa: Actually, Marx was very expert at giving economic causes. For example, he said that they would start off with this capitalistic system . . .

Prabhupāda: No, what Marx has explained that a man is born in a rich family, from the birth he is millionaire, and another man is trying whole life, but he could not secure more than his provision. That's all. Why this is here?

Harikeśa: That's due to the capitalistic system. Because he is born in a certain kind of a system, then this hereditary birth and wealth comes. But that capitalistic system, if it's more in a socialistic or communistic system, then there is no possibility of that happening. So therefore this inequality doesn't exist.

Prabhupāda: They are trying for the last fifty years. Why the capitalism is not yet gone? Fifty years at least. They started their movement in 1917. Huh? So how many years? More than fifty. Sixty years. Sixty years. What they have done, progress?

Harikeśa: Well, actually, Russia was the wrong place for Communism to go. According to Marx, Russia was the last place that should be communistic, because it was agricultural. But the first place should have been like England . . .

Prabhupāda: So why they did not do that? Another rascaldom. Why you are taking chance in Russia, the foolish country?

Harikeśa: So that when, if a country like England or America would become communistic, that would be very good.

Prabhupāda: Why would become? It is not the dictation of rascal Marx. Why they would? Why he is expecting like a fool like that? Why they would accept that philosophy?

Harikeśa: Well, they will have to accept it.

Prabhupāda: No, when they . . . that is another thing. Again, "they will have," future. Again rascaldom.

Harikeśa: Because just like New York has gone become bankrupt, so all the cities will go bankrupt, and then people will not have employment.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. Bankrupt does not mean their philosophy is lost. Bankrupt may be due to some other reason. That does not mean the capitalistic philosophy is finished.

Harikeśa: Well, actually the communistic philosophy is strictly economic.

Prabhupāda: Not actually. Don't say "actually." Sometimes you say "accidentally" and sometimes "actually." Such a rascal. (laughter) "By some chance" and sometimes "actually."

Haṁsadūta: Marx's point was that the different systems, they would deteriorate one into the other, and eventually all these countries would have to . . . they would just evolve into that communistic way of life. That was his . . . his idea.

Prabhupāda: No, no, then when there will be no capital, naturally they will be communistic. That's all. Nothing to eat . . .

Haṁsadūta: So it's just some . . . it's not a philosophy, but it's a position that one has to accept out of desperation.

Prabhupāda: So that is described in the Bhāgavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam (SB 12.2.8). They will be harassed by famine, taxation and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Āchinna. That is already told.

Haṁsadūta: Marx, he studied history from a given point and then he just calculated the consequences.

Prabhupāda: No, that point is not new point. It is already stated five thousand years ago. So what credit he has got? If I say, "Now you are thirty-four years. At the end of hundred years you will die," is that discovery?

Haṁsadūta: No. But that was . . .

Prabhupāda: Everyone knows it. Everyone knows it.

Haṁsadūta: But for this he's got so much credit because he said this.

Prabhupāda: So he gets credit from the rascals and fools. That's all.

Harikeśa: Actually, his philosophy is not something that can be put into action, but he's simply predicting what will be.

Prabhupāda: That we can say also from our Bhāgavata. That is not a very new thing. Those who are rascal, fools, for them it is new thing, and those who are student of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is not new point.

Haṁsadūta: I think Plato also predicted.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: We noticed this year at the book fair that they gave so many stands to the Communist publishers. There were at least ten or fifteen stands. And formerly they were not even allowed. They were not allowed. There was not a single one. Three years ago there was not a single stand which had Communist literature in the book fair, and this year there must have been fifteen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards Communism today.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards Communism. In Europe, Communism is becoming very strong. Italy has almost become communistic. Communist party has captured . . .

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Portugal.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Portugal, there's a struggle going on. Even in France the Communist party is very, very strong.

Prabhupāda: Disappointment. Disappointment. People are becoming more and more poverty-stricken. This is the . . .

Haṁsadūta: They are forced to accept it.

Prabhupāda: The European economic problem is failure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, this oil crisis has been of great help to the Communists, because . . . because of this oil crisis the world economy has fallen, and as people become frustrated, more and more people are turning towards Communism.

Prabhupāda: But what the Communist has done for the world benefit?

Harikeśa: Well, it's a nice philosophy.

Prabhupāda: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?

Haṁsadūta: Well, they say: "If we were in power, this would not happen."

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become in power? You are strong. And what they have done, those who are already in the power? There is no food. One has to give line for two hours to get foodstuff. I have seen in Moscow.

Ambarīṣa: They don't have any food. They have to buy from the United States.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Importing from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, importing India, America.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: They don't have any bananas, mangoes, nothing.

Prabhupāda: So this rascaldom is going on.

Haṁsadūta: People are so foolish . . .

Prabhupāda: And people here . . . in the Moscow I have seen, they have no choice. You have to take whatever government supplies.

Haṁsadūta: There is no food in the market.

Prabhupāda: If you want to eat something—everyone has got desire—you cannot get. You cannot get. There is no fruit; there is no flower.

Haṁsadūta: When I was there, all we could find was some potatoes, some beets and some cabbage. That's all. Nothing else.

Prabhupāda: That's all, yes.

Devotee (3): Very poor country.

Harikeśa: But also in Russia you can't grow many things. It's very cold.

Haṁsadūta: But you can import.

Prabhupāda: Therefore naturally they are condemned.

Harikeśa: So when you put the communistic system somewhere where you can grow these things, it will be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Harikeśa: You take that system and put it in a place where you can grow all these things, then it will be nice.

Prabhupāda: But if you bring Communism, you will not be able to grow. You are condemned immediately. Nature will restrict supply. (aside) Which way?

Tejiyas: Left, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa: China is doing very nicely.

Prabhupāda: Why not Russia?

Harikeśa: Well, China has more facility to grow.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of Russian philosophy if he has no facility?

Harikeśa: Well, actually it's not Russian philosophy. Chinese philosophy. I just read a report from French reporters that went into China. They say China is growing . . .

Prabhupāda: Then it is not accident. There must be some cause. Why do you say accident? Can you say: "Accidentally, Chinese are better situated"? Why don't you accidentally you become better situated? Then there must be controller.

Harikeśa: Mao Tse Tung.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Mao Tse Tung.

Prabhupāda: No, whatever it may be, if one is better situated and another is not, there must be some management above that.

Harikeśa: They say their great nationalistic spirit is holding together the country. They have a great nationalistic spirit. They are very loyal.

Prabhupāda: That spirit is there amongst the dogs. (laughter) That is not very great qualification. The dog has also, "Oh, yow! Why you have come here? Gow! Gow! Gow!" That is dog spirit. This dog is going peacefully. As soon as he will see another dog, immediately fight begin. Who is this (sic) Coppernics?

Ambarīṣa: Copernicus. He was a scientist. Ancient . . . well, long time ago. He was the one that first said that. . .

Haṁsadūta: He made a model of the universe, I think.

Prabhupāda: What is that scientific?

Haṁsadūta: He made a model of the universe.

Ambarīṣa: With the sun in the center. It was a revolutionary idea. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Another rascal.

Harikeśa: He used to sit on top of his roof and think.

Prabhupāda: And fell down? (laughter) What is this?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Another Aur bhi ek kalakendra. (One more kalākendra.)

Prabhupāda: Again. All kalākendra, this kendra.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's so many next to our temple.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Next to our temple there's so many kalākendras.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Kalā has another meaning of "art." (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . people engage in academic kalākendra, and the price of rice is rising. No rice. Rice kalā. "My dear kalākendra, can you supply me rice?" "No." (laughter)

Tejiyas: In Bombay, even if any businessman brings more than five kg's of rice, they will seize him. They search the baggage many times in the trains at the station.

Prabhupāda: You see. This is the kalākendra.

Haṁsadūta: There was a political cartoon, that people were shouting for food to Indira Gandhi, and the minister was saying: "The people want food." And she said: "But tomorrow we're going to have television."

Prabhupāda: Television. Kalākendra. (break) . . . kalākendra? This big house.

Harikeśa: Rabindra . . .

Prabhupāda: Rabindranath. Oh, he is the foremost kalā, Rabindranath Tagore. He has shown biggest kalā to the people of India.

Devotee (1): Aurobindo kalākendra.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo kalā.

Devotee (1): Very big. He spent a lot of money for that Victoria House.

Prabhupāda: But nobody is coming there—here or there. They have big, big Rabindra kalā and nobody is trying to taste it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: When they have programs, a lot of people come.

Prabhupāda: That . . . you make any dog dance; they will come. That is not . . . in the name of Rabindranath Tagore . . .

Harikeśa: That may even be Rabindranath Tagore dancing.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: When the dog is dancing, it may even be Rabindranath Tagore.

Prabhupāda: Rabindranath became very popular on account of his introducing Māgh-mela, where young boys and girls could easily meet. Yes. (aside:) Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Namaste.

Haṁsadūta: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tejiyas: Their current exhibition is "Women in the World."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Some exhibition is going on?

Tejiyas: It's "Women in the World."

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) What is that "Women in the World"?

Ambarīṣa: Sixteen-ounce brain, I think.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They had a World Conference of Women in Mexico recently, where every country sent a delegation of women.

Prabhupāda: To become man? (laughter)

Harikeśa: Yes, nowadays we're doing that also.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (laughter) So you become woman. (break) . . . here. Kalā, kalā?

Tejiyas: Stones.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kalā means craftsmanship. Why it is not here, lacking? No money. The kalā cannot be shown without money. I never saw New Delhi in such nasty condition.

Tejiyas: It's deteriorating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, very much deteriorating. It means finished. The kalā is finished now. You see? Now, "Natural History." So many dead stone they have brought, and so costly building, and showing "natural history." This is going on, simply cheating and bluffing at the cost of poor man's blood. Against this principle the Communist movement is good. There are so many buildings, but there is not a single building where spiritual culture is discussed, although it is the real basis of life. (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) . . . and not getting sufficient milk, their growth is checked. This is kalākendra.

Harikeśa: They have powdered milk.

Prabhupāda: That is simply cheating, powdered milk. It is white water, that's all. Powdered milk means white water. It has no value.

Haṁsadūta: In Moscow too, Anand Shanti, he was telling . . . when we were there we wanted to buy milk, and they had milk in bottles, but he told me, he said: "This is not milk." He said: "First they dehydrate it, make it to powder. Then they again add water and put it in the bottle, because in this way they can keep it a long time." So we couldn't find any real milk even in Moscow, the biggest city in the country.

Prabhupāda: I think Moscow they have milk and butter.

Haṁsadūta: At least when I was there we couldn't find any.

Prabhupāda: Oh, then finished. All cows finished, cutting throat.

Haṁsadūta: Butter they have, but it's not very good quality.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Adulterate. I thought at least they have got little milk and butter, but that is also finished.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah. (break)

Tejiyas: . . . the milkman tries to bring the cow to the āśrama, they arrest the milkman. They take his cow away from him. They don't even allow that they can bring the cow to the people any more. They seized. He lost one cow. He has to sneak the cow down the back alley so that they can bring some cow fodder in. (break)

Prabhupāda: This civilization will collapse very soon, all over the world. It will collapse. Either you may bring this ism or that ism, this civilization will collapse. People will become mad, being harassed in so many ways. When one is harassed in so many problems, he commits suicide. So that position is coming.

Haṁsadūta: Or he starts a war.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the government cannot adjust, they start a war.

Caitaguru: In yesterday newspaper, in . . . (end)