720704 - Conversation A - New York

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Previous conversation A is now 720704 - Conversation with Bob Cohen - New York

720704R1-NEW YORK - July 04, 1972 - 26:58 Minutes

Prabhupāda: How Kṛṣṇa was born?

Devotee child (1): He had a birth ceremony when Kṛṣṇa was born.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee child (1): Kṛṣṇa had His birth ceremony when He was born.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. How He took birth?

Devotee child (1): He take birth? Or four-armed form.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (1): He took birth as four-armed form. He came out from Devaki's womb.

Prabhupāda: You have seen any child with four arms? Have you seen?

Devotee child (1): Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Devotee child (1): In pictures.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee child (1): In the picture. Here.

Prabhupāda: Picture. In life have you seen four arms? No?

Devotee child (1): What?

Prabhupāda: One child with four arms, have you seen?

Devotee children: No.

Prabhupāda: No?

Devotee child: (2) We're not pure enough yet. We don't have spiritual eyes.

Devotee child (3): You have to have a spiritual body to see Kṛṣṇa?

Devotee child (2): Can you see Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (2): How does He look like?

(pause) How you translate?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (1): Is that where you translate books?

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's taking photograph?

Devotee (1): He's just . . .

Devotee child (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (1): How can I serve you better?

Prabhupāda: Read Kṛṣṇa book daily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee child (2): How many rounds should we do a day?

Prabhupāda: No need for it. Where is the kīrtana going on?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On the street. They are getting ready for saṅkīrtana.

Devotee child (1): Someone has to be here to meet you.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda? We've got a traveling saṅkīrtana group coming here . . . (indistinct) . . . from Dallas. The boys are stopping to see you.

In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed about one hundred of your Back to Godheads, and so many Kṛṣṇa books. And all the boys took part in saṅkīrtana. It would be very nice for them . . .

Prabhupāda: They want to see me? They want to see me?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then? What he says?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He says that when they were on their way to New York City, the students distributed hundred Back to Godhead and went on saṅkīrtana.

Devotee (2): In two days Dvārakādhīśa distributed over a hundred.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And Dvārakādhīśa did over a hundred in two days.

Prabhupāda: Very good. That's a great service. What is that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has a camera. He's making a movie.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Why it is fixed up?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: (to devotee) What are you doing?

Devotee (3): Oh, I was watching the boys' faces . . . watching them.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: You're not shooting yet?

Devotee (3): No. At any time I can shoot, yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. (to Prabhupāda) He's adjusting the camera.

Devotee child (2): How come you don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (2): Why don't you carry your tridaṇḍa with you?

Prabhupāda: I carry it sometimes.

Devotee child (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you drink like that, that's śuci, right?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee child (1): When you drink like that, that's śuci.

Prabhupāda: Śuci? Yes.

Devotee child (1): Śuci.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He is asking, "When you drink like that, it is sutri?"

Children: Śuci.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śuci.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śuci.

Prabhupāda: That's right, don't touch the mouth. That's all right.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya. (children pay obeisances and leave) (pause) Śrīla Prabhupāda, it will be possible for us to have a few minutes' conversation, for them to . . . for as an interview, so that they can film?

Prabhupāda: What interview?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: I will ask some questions about how . . . when you came to this country.

Prabhupāda: That you know. You can say. These are ordinary things.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: But they would like it . . . they would like to see . . .

Prabhupāda: They make like, but why should we waste our time in that?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. Well, could we . . . could we . . .?

Prabhupāda: They say ordinary question. Why do you ask?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, I can ask, I can . . .

Prabhupāda: That you can ask. But these are simply ordinary question anyone can answer. If there is serious question, that understanding, that is differant.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. They would like to let us . . . we could ask you questions, serious questions, for the benefit of the audience.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They would like to film the, the . . .

Prabhupāda: I can ask?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: . . . the devotees asking questions for the audience.

Prabhupāda: They make radio, television, they ask the same question. They do not know what question they can ask. The real . . . it is meant for the philosophy of life, but they, they do not know.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So why this ordinary question to be repeatedly made and I answer it? A waste of time. This is a serious movement. One should be responsible men, leaders of the society. If you want to take some benefit out of this movement, they should question.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And they should . . . if it is nice, they should take it. Then it will be benefit.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Simply go on questioning, they'll never do it, never accept it.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You see? That will not be effective. Simply a waste of time.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is a formula, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They actually see how we are changing the character.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So the leaders of the society, they should be serious, will adopt this—in the educational system, in their private life. In that way they shall ask some question, then it will benefit. Otherwise it will be simply a show.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya, Prabhupāda. I understand. I understand.

Prabhupāda: So, you are carrying the whole Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu with you?

Pradyumna: Me?

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-rasa . . . no?

Pradyumna: Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Hari-bhakti-vilāsa.

Pradyumna: No, I had it here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, here.

Pradyumna: I left it here. Just have a Xerox. I left my Bhagavad-gītā here, and some other books. I didn't take 'em to India. That hari . . . hari-nāmāmṛta.

Prabhupāda: Black cover?

Pradyumna: Yeah. A few other books I left here. Śrīla Prabhupāda? Well, like, there's an old friend of mine that I had, I called up to come and see you today. He's very nice. At five o'clock. He's going for his Ph.D. in theology at Columbia, and he's also an expert Russian scholar.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Pradyumna: He's been to Russia several times, and uh, it would be very nice . . .

Prabhupāda: This, this kind of question and interview we are interested.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So ordinary men, why this tilak . . . why you are's head is shaven when you came, what is the benefit of such a thing?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya, Prabhupāda. Jaya!

Prabhupāda: They do not know . . .

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So . . .

Prabhupāda: Now, the Russian scholar, he will, theologian, he can describe about God, what is the nature of God.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: So maybe we can ask him to come at five o'clock . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, that would be nice.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Pradyumna: And also some of our men, like Prajāpati is an M.A. in theology, and Ravindra-svarūpa M.A. in philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Pradyumna: And they will be here too, and it will be nice to hear discussion.

Prabhupāda: That's right. That discussion . . . (indistinct) . . . from students of philosophy, theology, what is their idea of God, what they are thinking, what is their defect, we can talk. Ordinary men you can . . . you try to avoid it. If they want some question, you can ask.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. Jaya.

Devotee (5): Śrīla Prabhupāda? I am one of the teachers in the Gurukula . . .

Prabhupāda: Ahh.

Devotee (5): . . . and one of the boys, Ekendra, his mother, Kalindi, she wants to take him away from the school.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): She wants to take him away from the school. So she's leaving it up to you, to your decision, as to whether the boy goes with her or stays in the Gurukula school. He's progressing very nicely at Gurukula. The school is just starting. He's very intelligent boy.

Prabhupāda: So why he is taking? Why she is taking?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kalindi wants . . . likes to take Ekendra.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Devotee (5): She's very attached.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Attached.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So she's mother. If she wants to take, what can I do? She doesn't like her son to be Kṛṣṇa conscious? Where she is?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She's here, actually. She is serving Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: She is serving, but she is not sure if that would be the best thing. She's attached. Maybe . . .

Prabhupāda: So you convince her that ordinary schools going, there are so many ordinary schools and students, where the students are coming out useless hippies. "Do you like to have your son to become hip . . . which are hippies?" Ask her this question.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Because we practically see, all the college students are hippies. Irresponsible vagabonds. If she wants her son to become like that, that is different thing. Irresponsible vagabonds, that is the present status of this country. The majority of the students, they are becoming irresponsible vagabonds. Is it not?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, correct. We all have experience in that, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if she, if she wants son to become irresponsible, irresponsible vagabond, in the association . . . of course, our Dallas also we should take very much care so that we may not also produce irresponsible vagabond. We don't want irresponsible vagabonds.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are your instructions to the parent . . . to the teachers as to how they treat parents? I have heard several parents sometimes complain that . . . that they don't get enough news about their children from the teachers. Should teacher let the parents know about the children?

Prabhupāda: So our, the small children teaching . . .

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: . . . means they should learn alphabet.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: How to read and write. That is the first thing.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And balance, they should learn how to become Vaiṣṇava.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: And we let the parents know how the children is progressing? Do we have responsibility to parents, to let them know, inform them about the progress of children?

Prabhupāda: Oh, we have no time for such talk. If he, he or she can come and see. We have no such. That is ordinary school.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Our progress is how the student is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: That is our point. And because he has to read nicely, he has to speak nicely, he must be literate, not illiterate.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To read your books?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: So that by reading the books they will have immense knowledge.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: This generation . . .

Prabhupāda: This much we want.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: . . . are very fortunate, Prabhupāda. They're very fortunate.

Devotee (5): They fight a lot, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): They fight a lot.

Prabhupāda: That children should fight, but if you give them . . . give them good arrangement, more engagement for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Always engage them in chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (5): They should do as much japa as possible.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They should have no scope—simply chant and dance, daily engagement. I have repeatedly said that they should play Kṛṣṇa play, cowherds boy going to the forest. Someone, someone has become cow, like that.

If they have got good engagement, and sometimes they fight—after all, they're coming from fighting father and mother. So you have to train them.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: The father and mother, they're also fighting. (laughter)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So what is their fault?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: We have a lot of plays that they could fight in the play.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Kṛṣṇa playing, fighting the demons.

Prabhupāda: Then they are Kṛṣṇa conscious. Somehow or other, this is the goal. In fighting also there is Kṛṣṇa. Somebody may become a demon . . . (indistinct) . . . Kṛṣṇa is fighting, carrying Him away. These are described in the Kṛṣṇa book . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (5): I noticed that, that everything is in there, even blind man's bluff and hide and seek. These things originated in the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (5): That everything is in the Kṛṣṇa book to engage the children.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Children here play hide and seek, which is also . . . the gopīs play.

Devotee (5): Cowherd boys.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Cowherd boys play the game.

Prabhupāda: Yes, also in India. That is a popular play for children. We . . . we played. It gives great pleasure that, "I have hidden. My friend cannot see me." This is going on.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if she decides to leave her child at the school, what are the instructions to her? She should not write him, or she should come . . . how often can she come to visit him?

Prabhupāda: As many times as she likes.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Oh.

Prabhupāda: She may come daily, or she can remain there to see.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Oh. Jaya.

Devotee (6): Can I ask a question?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's another teacher.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (6): Can I ask you a question?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Devotee (6): That many, many devotees have, have since I have arrived here, have asked me questions about how . . . how to treat the children, how to . . . how to teach the children, and they have, you know, there are many children in other temples besides Gurukula who are either are not, not of age yet, or who have not been sent yet . . .

Prabhupāda: Everyone is of age. That is all right. It is not that there is no age limit. Anyone who can remain, that is the best thing. But with very small children, I think nowadays after three years children can begin.

Devotee (6): After three? After three? Jaya. They, they've asked us many questions. Should . . . is there any . . . is there any information? How should we, should we send information from Gurukula to the other temples?

Prabhupāda: Who? Who asked questions?

Devotee (6): Devotees who have children, who have come to the temple. They said, one woman said that, "They've . . . my son, they're throwing him in cold shower.

They say he has to take a cold shower, and that no one wants to have anything to do with him because he's so much trouble . . ."

Prabhupāda: No, we have got our own program. We cannot accept the different program, that "My son should be done like this . . ." We should see that everyone is taking bath daily, that's all. They are taking bath daily?

Devotee (6): Yes.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Rising early in the morning?

Devotee (6): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Attending maṅgala ārati?

Devotee (6): Yes

Prabhupāda: Chanting? Dancing? These are our programs. Plus, little A-B-C-D, no?

Devotee (6): But no force, yes?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (6): They, they . . . she was questioning me about force, that there should . . . I told her that, that your instruction to us was that no . . .

Prabhupāda: Force?

Devotee (6): . . . there should not be force ever.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Hitting, hitting the children.

Devotee (6): Or forcing them to do activities. There's no . . . that should not be done.

Pradyumna: Forcing the children to do the activities.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: To use force. Hitting them.

Devotee (6): Well, we're not hitting them.

Prabhupāda: Not hitting. By otherwise engage.

Pradyumna: Like if he doesn't . . .

Prabhupāda: "Don't you see your other friends are taking bath. Why shall you not take bath? Very nice. You are so intelligent boy, you are not like that."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Positive.

Prabhupāda: By sweet words. They are after all children. Forcing is not good. (pause) What it this?

Pradyumna: Oh, I just wrote . . . my brother was in the hospital, so I just wrote a little letter to him. I'm going to send him some . . .

Prabhupāda: This is the letterheading, latest?

Pradyumna: Yes, this is New York, New York Society. I don't have any envelopes, but letter, nice . . .

Prabhupāda: This printing in our press?

Devotee (6): I don't know. This is the first I've seen of it, just now.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Would you like some, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No.

Pradyumna: I'm sending over some tulasī leaves.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Pradyumna: Little tulasī leaf?

Prabhupāda: No.

Pradyumna: Eat? No, shouldn't send.

Prabhupāda: He's not a devotee. He'll, "Oh, what is this?" Throw away.

Pradyumna: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Just like the tulasī plant is here, somebody will think that it is decoration. We put it here, devotion, but those who are not interested to speak them about Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is offense. One of the ten offenses.

Pradyumna: Yeah. I was wondering about that. I didn't know whether to do it or not.

Prabhupāda: They should be asked ordinary question: What is the life? What is the aim of life?

Pradyumna: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: What is consciousness? Philosophy, which is understandable by everyone . . . (indistinct)

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Would you like something, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I want to pat my head.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Where is Śyāmasundara?

Pradyumna: He's in his office, I think. He was there just a minute ago. I'll just write him to chant or something.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Pradyumna: I'll just write him to chant, maybe.

Prabhupāda: No, chant also is not correct.

Pradyumna: Oh.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: He's coming, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct)

Devotee (7): Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Would you like to see him? (break) (end)