731205 - Morning Walk - Los Angeles

Morning Walks by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731205MW-LOS ANGELES - December 05, 1973 - 56:04 Minutes

(in car)

Prabhupāda: . . . has done a great mistake. I never expected that . . . (indistinct) . . . all of a sudden . . . (break) You see the so-called svāmīs and yogīs—they could not do anything, because they are outsider. They are not within the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa. One must remain within the jurisdiction of Kṛṣṇa. Then his spiritual life is assured.

Otherwise (indistinct) . . . (break) Similarly, everything, everyone belongs to Kṛṣṇa's family, but we have to see what he's doing for Kṛṣṇa. Just like everyone is citizen of the state. Why a man is given high position and big title? Why? Because he's recognized.

Sudāmā: Right.

Prabhupāda: So one must give service. Simply to feel, "I belong to Kṛṣṇa's family" and doing nothing for Kṛṣṇa, that is not . . .

Sudāmā: That's not good.

Prabhupāda: That's not good. That is not good. That means he'll . . . very soon he'll again forget Kṛṣṇa. He'll again forget.

Sudāmā: Actually, the other element is so powerful. These people here, because, even though they are part of Kṛṣṇa's family, but because they have forgotten, then we become influenced by their forgetfulness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Forgetfulness means māyā.

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Māyā is nothing. It is a forgetfulness. That's all. It has no existence. Forgetfulness, it does not stand. But so long it is there, it is very troublesome.

Sudāmā: I've been asked a question by some devotees sometimes that they don't feel happy. So even if they are unhappy mentally, should . . . they still should continue in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I tell them, even if one is unhappy . . .

Prabhupāda: But you should show example. If you show example different way, how they will follow you?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Example is better than precept. Why you are living outside?

Sudāmā: Well, I . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . last time I was so much deteriorated in health, I had to leave this place. That does not mean I'll leave the Society. I went to India and recuperated. Or came to London. That's all right. So health may be sometimes . . . but that does not mean we shall give up the Society. If my health is unsuitable here, I go. I have a hundred centers. And you'll not go out of this universe (laughs) for your health recouping. You have to remain within the universe. Then why do you go out of the Society?

(break) . . . Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. We have to live with devotees. Why I left my family? Because they were not devotees. Therefore I come. Otherwise, in old age, I would have been comfortable. No. We should not live with the nondevotees, may be family men or anyone. Just like Mahārāja Vibhīṣaṇa: because his brother was not devotee, he left . . . left. Came, came to Rāmacandra. Vibhīṣaṇa. You know that?

Sudāmā: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: So Prabhupāda, it says that a sannyāsī should live alone. That means only with devotees.

Prabhupāda: Who . . .? Where it is said sannyāsī should live alone?

Hṛdayānanda: I mean, sometimes in your books.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes in your books. So that means with devotees?

Prabhupāda: In general, sannyāsī may live alone. But sannyāsī's duty is to preach.

Sudāmā: That I don't ever want to stop.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Sudāmā: I don't ever want to stop preaching.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Well, preaching, you cannot manufacture preaching. You must do preaching according to the principles ordered by your spiritual master. You cannot manufacture your own way of preaching. That is required. There must be some leader. Under the leadership. Yasya prasādād bhagavat . . . (Śrī Śrī Gurv-aṣṭaka).

Why it is said? Everywhere, in the office, there is some immediate boss. So you have to please him. That is service. Suppose in office, in a department there is office superintendent. And if you do in your own way, "Yes, I'm doing my business," and the office superintendent is not pleased, do you think that kind of service is nice? No.

Similarly, we have got . . . everywhere we have got immediate boss. So we must work. That is systematic. If everyone manufactures, invents his own way of life, then there must be chaos.

Sudāmā: Yeah, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now we are world organization. There is spiritual side, and there is material side also. That is not material side. That is also spiritual side, means systematic management. Otherwise how it will be done? Just like Gaurasundara sold the house, and there is no trace of the money. What is this? He did not ask him, anyone. He sold the house, and where is the money there is no trace. (break)

(greets devotees)

Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa. What is that badge? Tennis?

Devotee: It's not a badge. It's the only sweater I . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's nice. Yesterday I received one letter from Rūpānuga Mahārāja. He's preaching very nice. Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Rūpānuga?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: There have been a couple of people here in Los Angeles . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: . . . that have wanted to meet you. A councilman, a councilman here in Los Angeles would like to meet you, a city councilman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes. He's welcome.

Umāpati: So, and, and, um, also a Professor Scharfe at the UCLA, he's . . .

Prabhupāda: Professor?

Umāpati: Professor Scharfe. He's a Sanskrit scholar of the Vedic, Vedic . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scharfer?

Umāpati: Scharfe. Scharfe.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's not Scharfer?

Devotee: Scharfe, spelled S-c-h-a-r-f-e.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I've met him.

Umāpati: Yes. He would like very much to meet with you.

Prabhupāda: All right. Make appointment. What, what is his purpose to meet me?

Umāpati: Well, Professor Scharfe is interested in your writings, and I don't know the councilman's motives. He just sent word to me that he would like to meet with you.

Prabhupāda: We welcome any respectable gentleman. We have to go this way?

Karandhara: Um, up here, Prabhupāda. We can go this way, through here.

(break) (laughs)

Hṛdayānanda: The scientists will never give up.

Prabhupāda: They are trying.

Hṛdayānanda: They are like Jarāsandha. They come back every day on your walk.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have any specific reference for acintya in the Vedic reference?

Prabhupāda: Acintya, acintya, yes. Acintya. Acintya potency . . . even you have got acintya potency. That I have already explained. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is pinch of acintya, inconceivable potency, in us also. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have any specific reference?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jīva Gosvāmī. Jīva Gosvāmī has stated that unless we accept acintya, inconceivable energy, there is no conception of God. There is no conception of God. If you bring God to your conception, he's not God.

Umāpati: Acintya, acintya-bheda is a unique contribution of Vaiṣṇavas to the concept of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Actually, that is the fact. We cannot explain what is God. We have to accept what is God from God.

Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Avaroha process?

Prabhupāda: Yes, not ava . . . yes, avaroha process. Yes, thank you. Here Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). We have to accept that. Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya. So "There is no more superior authority than Me." Harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21).

Yaśomatīnandana: (loud waves drowns out voice)

Prabhupāda: Ah, na me viduḥ sura-gaṇāḥ . . . (BG 10.2).

Yaśomatīnandana: What to speak of these teeny scientists, even the great sages can't know Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Aham ādir hi devānām . . .

Yaśomatīnandana: Maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Yaśomatīnandana: Even Lord Brahmā, when he saw the innumerable Viṣṇu forms of the child Kṛṣṇa, then he himself said that "As far as I know, as far as I am concerned, I don't know anything about You."

Prabhupāda: No, he . . . yes. That is the Brahmā's position, what to speak of others. Yasyāntaṁ na viduḥ surāsura-gaṇā devāya tasmai namaḥ. Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavaiḥ (SB 12.13.1). Brahmā, Varuṇa, all demigods.

Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra. Rudra even, Śiva, Lord Śiva. Stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ, dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ. That Bhārati cited this verse. Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: The five gods?

Prabhupāda: No, no, this verse.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is that by Śaṅkarācārya, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is Vedic.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where is it from, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Where is it from?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is the Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhāgavatam is there. Yaṁ brahmā varuṇendra-rudra-marutaḥ stunvanti divyaiḥ stavair vedaiḥ sāṅga-pada-kramopaniṣadair gāyanti yaṁ sāma-gāḥ.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I remember Śrīla Prabhupāda used this "acintya" to differentiate between the life and the non-living.

Prabhupāda: Acintya means living.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, acintya-śakti. Life, life has acintya . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whereas non-life doesn't have.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Matter, just like a molecule doesn't have this acintya. But they may . . .

Prabhupāda: No, it has, but it is covered too much. Consciousness is covered. Potency, potent. It is potent.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Molecule has consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything has consciousness, but it is covered. The degree is of covering.

Umāpati: I was reading the writings of Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura in Jaiva dharma.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Umāpati: And he is explaining the word "śraddhā," and he defines it in there as the tendency of the mind towards devotion without regard to jñāna or karma.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Śraddhā.

Umāpati: Śraddhā. And I have heard it variously interpreted as meaning "faith" or "belief," which really falls short of that interpretation.

Prabhupāda: What is that interpretation?

Umāpati: Could you elaborate on the definition of śraddhā?

Prabhupāda: Śraddhā is explained in Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Śraddhā means firm conviction. That is śraddhā. Just like Kṛṣṇa says that, "I am the Supermost." So if you have firm conviction in Kṛṣṇa's word, that is śraddhā.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If you have doubt, then that is not śraddhā.

Umāpati: So therefore one can understand only if one is in śraddhā.

Prabhupāda: No, that śraddhā has to be increased.

Umāpati: How is it increased?

Prabhupāda: The beginning of śraddhā means firm conviction.

Umāpati: How is it śraddhā does not exist in one person, and it does exist . . .

Prabhupāda: No, śraddhā is there. It has to be awakened.

Umāpati: Śraddhā is in every person, then.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I say it is covered. It is covered. That covering has to be taken away. That is called bhajana . . . (indistinct) . . . that is called culture.

Umāpati: Upāsanā.

Prabhupāda: Upāsanā, bhajana, sādhana, culture, whatever you say. He has to awaken that śraddhā, more and more.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, is every jīva given a chance in the beginning to go in the spiritual world? Then he falls down, or . . .?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Or sometimes the jīva may choose directly . . .

Prabhupāda: The jīva is atomic. It is smaller than the atoms. One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad 5.9). So every living entity, atom.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is he first allowed . . .?

Prabhupāda: Less than the atom. Smaller than the atom.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is he allowed to associate with Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: As jīva is . . .

Prabhupāda: He's always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply he has forgotten. Have you not been with Kṛṣṇa? We are standing on this sand. The sand is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa's energy. We are standing by the water. This is Kṛṣṇa's energy. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Don't you read that? So is it different from Kṛṣṇa?

Yaśomatīnandana: No, but isn't it . . .

Prabhupāda: My body is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am also Kṛṣṇa's energy. I am always with Kṛṣṇa. Simply I have forgotten it.

Yaśomatīnandana: But this is Kṛṣṇa's inferior energy, right?

Prabhupāda: That may be. That is a comparative study, inferior or superior. But it is energy.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: As energy, it is not different from Kṛṣṇa. As energy.

Yaśomatīnandana: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19).

Prabhupāda: Yes. As energy, how can you differentiate from Kṛṣṇa?

Umāpati: You give the . . . it could be described as like the growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: The growth of a plant as compared to the energy of the sun.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: The growth of the plant is the inferior energy, and the . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are so many things. That is comparative study. But . . . (indistinct)

Energy is not different from the energetic. Sunshine is not different from the sun. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ (SB 1.5.20). Everything is Bhagavān, but it appears like different.

Yaśomatīnandana: Is that what it means by sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Everything is spiritual, but when it is . . . due to our ignorance, we think it is material.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but don't associate with . . . (indistinct) . . . must realize.

Yaśomatīnandana: So Māyāvādīs artificially think that?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They have no realization.

Yaśomatīnandana: Somebody even asked me about what is material and what is spiritual, Prabhupāda. I said that whatever is in connection with God is spiritual, and whatever is not in connection with God is material. Is that right?

Prabhupāda: That's nice. That's nice.

Karandhara: The consciousness makes a difference.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: Your consciousness makes the difference.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: Because everything is in connection with God except for our own consciousness when we're in māyā.

Prabhupāda: Just like we are taking prasādam. How it is spiritual?

Yaśomatīnandana: It is offered to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: By our knowledge, that it is . . .

Prabhupāda: By knowledge . . . because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness is there. So anything which is accepted in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is spiritual.

Umāpati: In perfect knowledge, would the first step be faith that it is offered to Kṛṣṇa? One may, may make an offering without being . . .

Prabhupāda: Well, he must learn under superior direction. Otherwise, how he can offer?

Umāpati: Well, he may make an attempt. There is a natural impulse to serve, a natural impulse to offer in man, and he may not be aware that he is seeking Kṛṣṇa in his conditioned state. Then, if . . .

Prabhupāda: Then whom he's offering? If he does not know Kṛṣṇa . . .

Umāpati: That is his ignorance. If he is seeking.

Prabhupāda: Then, if he's in ignorance, what is the value of his offering?

Umāpati: I did not hear the last point.

Hṛdayānanda: If he's in ignorance, what is the value of the offering?

Umāpati: That is true.

Hṛdayānanda: He needs a spiritual master.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything in ignorance.

Umāpati: But then the spiritual master gives him knowledge . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: . . . and then from that knowledge he becomes aware that . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: . . . Kṛṣṇa is in the offering.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Yaśomatīnandana: Spiritual master gives knowledge, and then a disciple is eternally indebted to spiritual master.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: It is not that, like Māyāvādīs, they serve the spiritual master in the beginning and then they . . .

Prabhupāda: Then they . . .

Yaśomatīnandana: . . . themselves become . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . throw him away, "Go away. I have now learned." Guru-mara-vidyā, to . . . the knowledge of how to kill guru. (laughs) Guru-mara-vidyā.

Their . . . the philosophy is that you cannot rise up; you take a ladder. But as soon as you rise, throw away the ladder. No more. No more needed. That is Māyāvāda philosophy. Our philosophy is, dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya yaśas tri-sandhyam (Śrī Gurv-aṣṭaka 8).

Yaśomatīnandana: Three . . .

Prabhupāda: Eternally.

Yaśomatīnandana: Somebody told me, Prabhupāda, about Vallabhācārya, that he sometimes . . . he once went to Lord Caitanya and said that he wrote a better commentary than a previous ācārya, and Lord . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śrīdhara Svāmī.

Yaśomatīnandana: Lord Caitanya chastised him?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: An unchaste wife who abandons a svāmī.

Prabhupāda: He referred to Śrīdhara Svāmī. So svāmī means husband. So He sarcastically remarked, "Anyone who does not accept svāmī, she is prostitute."

Yaśomatīnandana: Is Vallabhācārya, Prabhupāda, in accordance with our philosophy?

Prabhupāda: Yes, he's Vaiṣṇava, ācārya. But that very deviation that, "I have done something better than Śrīdhara," that is not our paramparā system. Then he was thinking himself better than Śrīdhara. That is not allowed. We should always remain servant of the servant. Never we shall think that "I am better than my Guru Mahārāja." That is falldown.

(japa) Our Juhu Beach is very nice.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All clean, and you can walk very nicely. In Bombay.

Yaśomatīnandana: And lot of people can see you. And they bow down to you?

Prabhupāda: If they do not, what can I do?

Yaśomatīnandana: Well, no, if they do, then they will go to Vaikuṇṭha. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That is our śāstric injunction, that as soon as you see a sannyāsī, you must bow down. Otherwise, you should fast one day. It doesn't matter, I or you. This is the injunction of the śāstra, that sannyāsī is supposed to be the guru of the society. So one must bow down.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, in our movement there are so many sannyāsīs. If we see the sannyāsī, same, so many times in one day, we should bow down every time we see him?

Prabhupāda: If you can, of course.

Śrutakīrti: It wouldn't hurt.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

(break) . . . this time He used to take His saṅkīrtana party for strolling all over the city.

udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge

dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge

(from Gītāvalī)

(japa)

Hṛdayānanda: Prabhupāda, we are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hṛdayānanda: We are helpless without you.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Yes. Today sky is clear.

Umāpati: With this energy crisis now, it'll be even clearer.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: With this energy crisis, it'll even be more clear.

(break) . . . these people, these politicians, this power that we have in our government would be . . . come to an end.

Prabhupāda: It has already come to an end. There is no government anywhere.

Umāpati: No.

Prabhupāda: Simply chaos.

Yaśomatīnandana: Prabhupāda, do you think that the ISKCON will . . . this Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become a major religion in any country?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: Kṛṣṇa consciousness will become a major religion in any country?

Prabhupāda: So far the statement goes, manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3), one can understand.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But even one person understands, it is beneficial for many. Yes.

Yaśomatīnandana: Just like you understood your Guru Mahārāja's message, and the whole world is benefited.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Yaśomatīnandana: Not everybody can be that potent.

(break)

Prabhupāda: . . . just like the sunshine is open to everyone, but if you do not take advantage of it, that is your fault. Sunshine is not meant for . . . specifically for any person. It is open to everyone. But if you purposefully close your door and do not see the sunshine, that is your fault.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, Prabhupāda. But there's only one earthly planet, and you have conquered it already.

Umāpati: Is not a true Vaiṣṇava also a sannyāsī? Would you explain the difference between them?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: Is not a, one who is truly a Vaiṣṇava, is he not also a sannyāsī by his . . .?

Prabhupāda: Sannyāsī, sannyāsī is in the material platform, and Vaiṣṇava is in the spiritual platform.

Umāpati: So then the Vaiṣṇava is superior to a sannyāsī?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He's not sannyāsī. He's above sannyāsī.

Umāpati: Oh. But a Vaiṣṇava would always offer his respects to a sannyāsī. Is that not true?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa was offering respect to His elderly person. That is etiquette.

Karandhara: (to devotee) Step aside a little bit so that Prabhupāda can . . . if you stay to the side a little bit. You're boxing Prabhupāda in.

Umāpati: There's some austerity, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Umāpati: They're sleeping on the beach.

Prabhupāda: So what is the benefit of their sleeping? (laughter)

Umāpati: They save their rent money.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is his misfortune. That is a young man's fashion in your country.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is not austerity. That is licentiousness.

Umāpati: Yes. It comes from a time when we admire swashbuckling and being free, so-called, in the material sense.

Prabhupāda: That is reaction. The rich man is trying to become a poor man, "Let me see what is the advantage of the poor man." That's right. Your country (laughs) does not require to lie down like that. You have got enough arrangement. But it is a fashion. That's all.

So fashion is not austerity. That is sense gratification. It appears like austerity, but it is sense gratification. Real austerity is not to make any sense gratification; simply to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is real austerity.

Umāpati: So if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, then . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: . . . that would not be . . . if Kṛṣṇa required us to sleep on the beach, that would not be sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: No. And why Kṛṣṇa will require like that? Do you mean to say Kṛṣṇa is a madman?

Umāpati: No.

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes, I was thinking that too. Why would Kṛṣṇa require any of his devotees to sleep on the beach?

Prabhupāda: He wants to see His devotees are comfortably situated. Why He'll unnecessarily ask that, "Go to the beach and lie down?"

Umāpati: You say that Kṛṣṇa stands there smiling very sweetly, playing the flute.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: So why should He require us to go through austerities like that? (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ācārya means he must show by example. Āpani ācari prabhu jiveri śikhāimu. (japa)

Umāpati: Is there such a thing as a sincere atheist . . .

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: . . . who benefits by austerity?

Prabhupāda: Atheist? Atheist? How he's sincere?

Umāpati: That's what I . . . (laughter) That's what I'm asking.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Honest thief? It is contradictory. If I say: "Here is an honest thief," is that a good designation, "honest thief"?

Umāpati: Well, in that case, that's so. You're right. It's absurd. Yes.

Prabhupāda: So . . .

Yaśomatīnandana: A sincere atheist.

Umāpati: But there are those who appear . . . at least they think, they feel they are sincere when they go through austerities, but they won't accept Kṛṣṇa consciousness as . . . at this point in their, in their existence.

Prabhupāda: No, some atheists say that, "We are godless because nobody has convinced us about the existence of God." That is honesty. That is honesty. But there are rascals, however you may convince him, he'll not take it. That is rascaldom.

Yaśomatīnandana: Believe in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: So the honest ones become devotees?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: We were all . . .

Prabhupāda: If he's honest, then he must take.

Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yaśomatīnandana: We were all atheists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you . . . if, if, if an atheist is honest, then when he's convinced, he must accept Kṛṣṇa. That is honesty. If after convincing him he does not take, that is dishonesty.

Umāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is dishonesty.

Umāpati: But there's a quality in this age that one does not accept defeat philosophically, philosophical defeat. If one is presented with philosophically sound arguments, it is a tendency today to refuse to accept the superiority of Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy over any other philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Umāpati: It's very popular to put all philosophies in the same . . . "Well, that's philosophy," they say. They say that, "Everybody has his opinion. That's your opinion," they say.

Prabhupāda: No.

Umāpati: So no one will accept any kind of superior philosophy. It's very difficult to discuss these things among them.

Prabhupāda: No, then everyone, if becomes superior, then where is the question of philosophy? If everyone is superior himself, then there is no question of philosophy. Is there any necessity? You are superior, I am superior; then where is the question of discussing further?

Umāpati: That is trying to be God. He's trying . . . then we are always God.

Prabhupāda: Then philosophy becomes null and void. As soon as everyone becomes his own authority, then philosophy becomes null and void. There is no necessity of philosophy.

Umāpati: That is the difficulty of our age.

Prabhupāda: That means they are rascals. Mūḍhāḥ. If you do not accept philosophy, do not accept authority, that means all rascals.

Hṛdayānanda: You said alpa-medhasaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Outlaws. They are called outlaws. Just the outlaws, they do not accept any authority, government authority, or authority of the law. They're called outlaws. Rejected.

Umāpati: Yeah, well, this is a nation of outlaws.

Prabhupāda: So they are rejected. If anyone . . . everyone becomes his own authority, then it is chaos.

Umāpati: Well, that is the fashion today.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Fashion means . . .

Umāpati: It's called "Do your own thing."

Prabhupāda: No, who are you to say me, "Do your own thing"? Then you become master. You are directing me. Why should you direct me, "Do your own thing"? You stop. Don't talk. If your philosophy accepted that everyone is authority, you cannot say: "Do your own work." Why should you say? Then you become authority. You should not speak at all.

Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: That is also a philosophy.

Prabhupāda: What is that philosophy?

Karandhara: That "Do your own thing" is also a philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a philosophy. Why you are dictating? You'll better stop. Don't talk. That's all. You have no facility for talking. Have you?

Umāpati: No, I haven't.

Prabhupāda: Then? You keep yourself satisfied with your own philosophy. I keep myself satisfied with my philosophy. There is no need of talking.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: And that is good. If a foolish man does not talk, it is good for him and good for others. Because he'll talk foolish. Better not to talk. That is good. That . . . infectious diseased man . . . what is called? Quarantine.

Karandhara: Quarantine.

Prabhupāda: He's put separately so that he may not poison others. He may not poison others. So that is the position of the self-sufficient authority.

Yaśomatīnandana: In Gujarati we call it bhanji moti laksmim. When the palm is closed, it is worth lakh rupees, but when it is open, it doesn't mean anything. A foolish person, when he talks, he reveals everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Foolish person means busy rascal. There are four kinds of division: lazy intelligent and busy intelligent and lazy rascal and busy rascal. The first-class man is lazy intelligent, and second class, busy intelligent, and third class, lazy rascal, and fourth class, busy rascal. A rascal, if he's busy, then what he will do? He'll simply do harm. That's all.

Karandhara: Create havoc.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: Create havoc.

Prabhupāda: Havoc, create havoc. Just as they are doing now. All rascals, they are very busy.

Yaśomatīnandana: Creating atom bombs.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Therefore the whole world is in confusion. All rascals, they are busy. What is the use of such business? Like monkey. Monkey's very busy, always, but doing harm. That's all. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, ugra-karmāṇaḥ kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ (BG 16.9). These rascals, they are busy just to destroy the whole world and do the mischief. That's all. Actually, they are doing so. That we also . . . in English language, sometimes it is said: "A sharp razor in the hands of a child." The child . . .

That is this imitation. They want to imitate their father. So if he imitates the razor sharp, then he will create havoc. So these rascals, they have got now all power, and therefore creating havoc. They do not know how to use it. According to Vedic principle, the śūdras, they should not be given more money, the worker class. Now the worker class is given more money. So what they'll do? They'll produce drunkards. That's all. In America, it is evident. They do not know how to use money. So therefore we see, fifty-two percent drunkards in your country. Eh? What is the percentage?

Devotee: I'm not sure, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Karandhara: It's probably close to that.

Prabhupāda: Eh? At least fifty percent. Eh?

Karandhara: Drunkards, debauchers.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: Criminals.

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma harer nāma . . . (CC Adi 17.21). What is the time?

Hṛdayānanda: Quarter to seven.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So we can . . .?

Karandhara: We can walk around a little bit.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Umāpati: So how . . . is it a waste of time, then, to present Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy to someone who believes in "doing your own thing"? Do you think that that is a . . .?

Prabhupāda: No. It is, it is . . . we should push Kṛṣṇa consciousness as disinfecting agent. They're all infected, the whole world. So by chanting, you disinfect.

Umāpati: Just by our presence chanting, then?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore chanting is so important. Philosophy later on. First of all, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), cleansing the heart.

Devotees: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Cleansing the heart. So by hearing this chanting their heart will be cleansed gradually. Then they will understand the real position.

Umāpati: Oh. Jaya.

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So we have to do this chanting, not sit down in a solitary place, chanting himself. No, not like that. You have to vibrate the sound for the benefit of others.

Umāpati: That is the mystical process of this movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So that their heart may be cleansed and they can understand. And if I sit down in a solitary place, for my benefit, that may be his benefit, but it is not very high class engagement. He must sacrifice for others. Parārthe prajñā utsṛjet, utsri. That is the Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's moral instruction, that "Everyone should sacrifice for the Supreme."

Caitanya Mahāprabhu is God Himself. He comes down to preach, to become sannyāsī, and to take so much trouble all over India and everywhere, and giving instruction and sending men, "Go, go, go, go." What? Why you . . .? He's perfect. Why He's coming? He doesn't require. No. For the benefit of others, we must follow the footsteps of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

(aside) That's all right. Why water is here?

Karandhara: I don't know, Prabhupāda. It's a low spot.

Prabhupāda: A Vaiṣṇava's first qualification—that he's unhappy by seeing others unhappy. Vaiṣṇava cannot be unhappy. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja says that, "I have no problem. I am unhappy seeing these people who are simply engaged in false activities and they do not care for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I am unhappy." This is Vaiṣṇava's qualification. Not that, "I am saved. That's all right." That is materialism. "Let others go to hell. I am saved." That is materialism. A Vaiṣṇava should think always, "Oh, so many people are suffering. What I am doing for them?" That is Vaiṣṇava. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also said by scientists. They also say that "People are suffering. So we are trying to make them happy."

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but if you do not know, how you'll make them happy? You'll create havoc.

Yaśomatīnandana: Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9).

Prabhupāda: Yes. You do not know how to make them happy. First of all learn how to make them happy. You cannot manufacture your program to make them happy. That everyone is doing. But the more they are acting, the world becoming in chaotic condition. You know what is the standard of happiness, how to make them happy; then you can work. If a medical man, he has never seen a medical college and if he wants to treat patient, what is this?

Hṛdayānanda: A criminal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Quack. He must know how to make them happy. That is first business.

Yaśomatīnandana: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Karandhara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya. All glories to Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . basic disease. He has made himself voluntarily under the clutches of māyā. And māyā's business is to give trouble. That's all. Otherwise, he's free, but he has voluntarily accepted the custody of māyā. Yayā sammohito jīva. Sammohitaḥ means bewildered; jīva, the living entities. Ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam (SB 1.7.5).

Everyone is identifying, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this body," "I am that body." This is identification with māyā. Ātmānaṁ tri-guṇātmakam. Tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate. And as soon as he becomes under the clutches of māyā, he'll act according to the dictation of māyā. Tat-kṛtaṁ cābhipadyate. (break) . . . to see their Los Angeles Zoo? Why they're advertising?

Sudāmā: The Los Angeles what, Prabhupāda?

Hṛdayānanda: Zoo.

Prabhupāda: Zoo.

Sudāmā: Oh, yeah?

Karandhara: It's not a very good zoo.

Sudāmā: No, it's not.

Karandhara: Just a small, little one.

Hṛdayānanda: The big zoo is in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, zoo in the Africa.

Sudāmā: Oh, yeah?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter) No, actually they go. There is a national zoo. Thousands of . . . practically Africa's main income is from the tourists.

Śrutakīrti: Tourism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. People go to see. You'll, you'll drive your car, you'll find lions, elephants, or . . .

Śrutakīrti: Recently one of Brahmānanda's men had an accident by hitting some animal on the road. Large animal, I think it was.

Prabhupāda: Oh, what accident?

Śrutakīrti: One of the vans. One of the devotees ran into an animal on the road and had an accident.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Śrutakīrti: I'm not sure what it was.

Prabhupāda: No, the national garden means there is arrangement. The animals are free, roaming. But you can go with your car and . . .

Hṛdayānanda: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they cannot attack within the car.

Sudāmā: No.

Prabhupāda: But if you come out, they'll attack. The lions are there, elephants are there. (break)

Sudāmā: Not very cold?

Prabhupāda: Not very cold.

Sudāmā: No, no. Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Sudāmā: Compared to Hawaii, it is very cold.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hawaii is very pleasant.

Sudāmā: Yes, now it is eighty-five degrees every day.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Sudāmā: It's wintertime now.

Prabhupāda: And summer?

Sudāmā: Summer's very hot. Hundred and five.

Prabhupāda: But there is rainfall.

Sudāmā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Summer.

Sudāmā: Yes. There's quite a bit now. Sometimes in the winter it rains. So that one devotee brought up the point of the philosophy of "Do your own thing," and that's what the devotees were instructed in Hawaii to do. When they closed the temple, Gaurasundara just said: "Now everyone go and do your own thing for Prabhupāda."

Prabhupāda: If he does Prabhupāda's work, then where is the "own thing"?

Sudāmā: Yeah, right. There's . . .

Prabhupāda: "Do your own thing on behalf of Prabhupāda." So if he wants Prabhupāda, he must abide by the order of Prabhupāda.

Sudāmā: Yeah. My thing is your thing. Actually, I have nothing of my own.

Prabhupāda: No, they have been misguided. But temple closing was very irresponsible . . . (break) . . . house many years.

Sudāmā: Many years. (end)