731215 - Morning Walk - Los Angeles

Morning Walks by Date, 1973

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

731215MW-LOS ANGELES - December 15, 1973 - 49:56 Minutes

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The sky is quite clear.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Can you change it? Can you change it?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Then what kind of scientist you are?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A rascal scientist.

(Prabhupāda laughs)

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, may I put a question?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Candanācārya: Yesterday I made the acquaintance of a theologist, a professor from the University of Montreal. He said that the Roman Catholic presentation of Christianity is that God came to share the suffering of man.

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man?

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said: "So that man would accept more as reality, suffering."

Prabhupāda: Very good theologician. A rascal number one. You are trying for becoming happy, and his theory is that man will accept suffering. You see? The very proposition is rascaldom. Everyone is trying for to become happy. That is progress. Ātyantika. In Sanskrit it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ.

There is suffering, and our struggle for existence means to, I mean to say, mitigate the suffering, to minimize or to make it nil. That is our struggle. We are not submitting to suffering. Then what is the civilization? What is human civilization? We don't want suffering. That is our position. Why this rascal says that "We shall suffer"? Just see. The theologician is a rascal. Therefore we say everyone rascal.

Prajāpati: The same theologician, Prabhupāda, he calls himself an atheist theist.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Candanācārya: He said: "I am an atheist theist."

Prabhupāda: Atheist theist? What is this?

Prajāpati: Just rascal, double talk.

Prabhupāda: Another rascal. Another rascal proposition.

Candanācārya: I asked him, "How can a theologist be an atheist?"

Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that because the whole world is full of rascals, they are all talking nonsense. No meaning. No meaning. It is only we, we are pointing out that, "You are a rascal. You speak all nonsense." Now, taking this word "atheist," what does he mean by atheist?

Candanācārya: Without theism?

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not explanation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Atheist means not believing in God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Say like that. Don't say in a negative way. In a positive way. What does it mean, atheist?

Prajāpati: He says there is no God.

Prabhupāda: There is no God. Then what do you mean by "God"? Next question. Next question will be, "What do you mean by 'God'? "

Candanācārya: So he'll say the conception which has been presented by the different religions.

Prabhupāda: What is your conception? Why do you go to different religions? You are talking with me. So you say . . . what do you mean by God? Next question will be this. Don't go to others. Don't fly away. You are atheist. You are posing yourself atheist. Atheist means one who does not believe in God. That's all right. Now what do you mean by God? First of all the thing must be there, then you believe or not believe next. Just like here is a person. He says: "I believe in him"; I say: "I don't believe in him." But the person is there.

Karandhara: Well, he'll say: "God is just an idea."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: "God is an idea."

Prabhupāda: Idea?

Karandhara: Yes. But ideas don't always represent facts.

Prabhupāda: So idea is there. You say that it is not fact, but others say it is a fact. So how it will be mitigated? How it will be settled? "God" word is there. You say that it is an idea.

Candanācārya: A "sky flower" is an idea, but it's not fact.

Prabhupāda: No, just like God, let us stick on word, that God . . . you say it is an idea only. I say it is not an idea; it is fact.

Karandhara: Well, then they say: "By objective empirical analysis it has to be researched. Scientific."

Prabhupāda: Oh, then let us analyze. Analyze. Let us analyze. That . . . we say that God means Supreme, Supreme Being. So how you can say that Supreme Being is an idea? How you can say? You accept Supreme Being. So how you can say it is idea? It is fact.

Karandhara: Well, they say there is no necessity for a Supreme Being.

Prabhupāda: No, there's a necessity. If you don't accept, then you will be beaten with shoes. Because as soon as there is light, you have to accept supreme authority.

Karandhara: But that's an authority we have imposed upon ourselves.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because there is need; therefore you have done it. There is necessity.

Karandhara: Well, some of them say, because people are generally ignorant, therefore we need this idea of God.

Prabhupāda: But you are less than ignorant. You are less than ignorant. You are less than rascal. If I call you a rascal, then I give you some honor. (laughter)

Karandhara: Lenin said that God is just opiate of the people, just to keep them intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, no. That means Lenin wanted to become God. That's all. The God idea is there, but he cannot be God. Because he was under the laws of God, he died. He died. He could not save himself from death. Therefore he is not supreme authority. He accepted supreme authority, but he wanted himself to become the supreme authority. Now, when he died, he is not supreme authority. He is forced to die. Then there is another supreme authority.

Karandhara: Well, then they can say ultimately death is meaningless anyway.

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? Then why you are afraid of death when I come to kill you?

Karandhara: Well, that it's meaningless doesn't mean I can't place some value on it at any given point.

Prabhupāda: Why meaningless? It has meaning. Then why you are fighting? Why you fought for Russian Revolution?

Karandhara: Well, they give the example like numbers. Numbers are only useful for a purpose, but actually they are meaningless.

Prabhupāda: The purpose is meaningless then. Then your purpose is meaningless.

Karandhara: Yes, they say ultimately everything is meaningless.

Prabhupāda: Then you are a rascal. You are working for meaningless things. Then you are a rascal. That's all. And that is my version, that you are a rascal number one.

Karandhara: Well, they say everyone can introduce their own meaning to whatever they want.

Prabhupāda: No, then why do you try to get many followers? Let them do their own work.

Karandhara: No, to proliferate your own meaning.

Prabhupāda: No, no. You have got own meaning. You be satisfied with your own meaning. I have got my own meaning. Why do you bother me?

Karandhara: Well, my meaning may be to bother you. That may be part of my meaning.

Prabhupāda: Then my meaning is to beat you with shoes. (laughter)

Karandhara: Someone like Lenin, no one ever beat him. He was not beat. He beat everyone else.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He was also beaten—by death. He died also.

Karandhara: He said death is meaningless.

Prabhupāda: That means even if he is beaten, he will not accept it. He is such a rascal. He is such a rascal. He is being beaten every moment. He is becoming old. He is becoming diseased. He is dying. He still says: "I am not beaten. I am not beaten."

Candanācārya: Actually, he still thinks that he's beating death because they put his body in a tomb . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is being beaten every moment, every second, and still, he will say: "I am not beaten." That is rascal number one. One is accepting that, "Yes, I am being beaten," he is sane man. And one who says that, "I am not beaten," he is getting old, and every moment he is being beaten, and still he says: "I am not beaten."

Karandhara: Well, they have a philosophy called existentialism, that so long something exists, we can place value on it, but when it ceases to exist, there is no remorse. There is nothing to lament.

Prabhupāda: There is no nothing to lament, but why don't you exist? Why you struggle for existence?

Karandhara: But they say if you have money in your hand, as long as you have it, you can utilize it, but if you lose it, don't worry; it's nothing to lament.

Prabhupāda: But they worry. I have practically seen. They cry.

Karandhara: Well, they just fall short of their philosophy, the philosophy they hold as ideal.

Prabhupāda: So these are all no argument. No sane man will accept this argu . . .

Karandhara: Most Western people are so frustrated, they accept these philosophies wholeheartedly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is frustration. That is not real life. That is another thing.

Karandhara: But like you say in Bhagavad-gītā, they are so angry with all types of speculation . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: They become so angry with all types of speculation that they become frustrated and disgusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Frustration is not life. Frustration is frustration, disappointment. That is not life.

Karandhara: They say that frustration is the only reality.

Prabhupāda: No. That is for you.

Karandhara: Absurd, the absurd philosophy.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That is for you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That means they do not know the value of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's it. That means rascaldom. That means rascaldom.

Karandhara: One of their chief philosophers, his name was Camus. So after he was propounding this philosophy and writing many books, one night he was driving in his car, and he decided that, "There's no meaning, so why not just drive my car off a cliff?" So he just drove his car off a cliff, finished himself off.

Prabhupāda: Mad. Madmen.

Karandhara: But his books are in colleges especially. Millions and millions of students accept his books as practically gospel.

Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter of the book?

Karandhara: Subject matter of his books, that life is ultimately absurd. There is no real meaning to it. We place our own meanings on it, but those are . . .

Prabhupāda: So you are trying . . . why you are trying to explain it? Why you are trying to explain it?

Karandhara: Yes, actually he is trying to make reason out of the absurdity.

Prabhupāda: To prove absurd is his reason? That means absurd reason.

Karandhara: Well, that's what he ultimately realized, that everything is absurd. There is no use speaking, writing or even living.

Prajāpati: In his foremost work, Śrīla Prabhupāda . . .

Prabhupāda: No, no. The thing is that you are saying: "absurd," I am saying: "not absurd." Who will settle up this? That is the . . . if you settle your own affair, I settle my own affair, so who will settle up whether I am right, you are right?

Śrutakīrti: It will be settled at death.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (laughs) Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca (BG 10.34). The death is equally acceptable by you and me, but . . . and it is also a fact you don't want to die; I also don't want to die. Then there is authority.

Karandhara: No, but in his case, he didn't care. He died willingly.

Prabhupāda: No, no. He didn't care, but he always takes care. That is a fact. He always takes care.

Karandhara: No, but on this instance, he died willingly. He wanted to die.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he might be pretending. Might be died, but he was thinking that he'll not . . . (indistinct)

Karandhara: No, but he killed himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he did not want to die, but just to keep prestige, he might have died. That's all.

Karandhara: I think he wanted to die. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like people who do suicide.

Prabhupāda: Then if you want to die, let me kill you immediately. You will be happy.

Rūpānuga: He wrote another book, called Nausea, wherein he wrote how life made him sick to his stomach.

Prabhupāda: That means madman. Sometimes madman commits suicide. He's a madman, that's all.

Karandhara: Practically, in the last three hundred . . . two hundred years, all the most famous writers and scholars and intellectuals, they all became madmen.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be, because they do not know what is to be known. Their knowledge is imperfect.

Karandhara: Nietzsche, Freud, they all died madmen.

Prabhupāda: Madman means when one becomes frustrated, he becomes mad. That is the . . .

Karandhara: But the people after them, they think that their lives were very great. They read their books and accept their authority.

Prabhupāda: There are two classes of men. We don't say their life was great. So therefore I say: who will settle? I am right or he is right? Always you will find the madman will say: "I am right." Another man say: "You are not right; I am right." Then who will settle up? That is the point. You will find always these two classes of men. You say you are right, I say I am right.

Candanācārya: But by committing suicide, didn't he accept that finally death was the only thing that was not absurd?

Prabhupāda: Yes. For them the death is the only solution.

Prajāpati: Rascals like such books, Prabhupāda, because it requires no commitment on their part. It requires no commitment. To read such men—"Oh, yes, that's very nice. I can read them and put them down." But it doesn't require me to trust in God or to do anything for the world.

Prabhupāda: No. Books are written in favor: "If you want to know more about us, then here is book." Because from books, generally, we get knowledge. Otherwise book is not required. (observing in sky) Very brilliant light.

Śrutakīrti: It's an airplane.

Prabhupāda: And if the light is little more brilliant, that means finished. Eh? If the same light becomes little more brilliant, that means finished, fall down immediately. It is a big aeroplane? (break)

Prajāpati: Several years ago you gave a series of lectures in New York on atonement that are very famous, and devotees, they relish them very much. Prāyaścitta.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Prajāpati: And this is also in Christian theology to a large extent, plus another concept called, er, feeling very sorry for one's sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Repentant. Repentant?

Prajāpati: No so much repentance; it's called . . .

Karandhara: The classic idea is that one goes away and just lives in a state of remorse, solitude and remorse, thinking how sinful and wretched he is, and performing severe austerities.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Karandhara: Going away, living in a monastery, performing severe austerities, and always contemplating how sinful and wretched we are and how we must suffer.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is suffering. But one who knows that he is suffering, he is intelligent.

(aside to passerby) Good morning.

Everyone is suffering. If you are not suffering, why you have covered? Why you have covered? Because you are suffering, is it not? Why you are not naked body? Because we are suffering, therefore we have covered. It is a fact. And if somebody says: "No, we are not suffering," then he's a madman. So everyone is suffering. One who knows it, he is intelligent man. That's all.

Rūpānuga: They have no positive philosophy. They stress guilt. They are always guilty. They have no positive philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No . . . then the next question is that, "If there is a positive philosophy to mitigate the suffering, why don't you accept it?" Just like when one body is suffering, I say: "Take this blanket. Cover." If he says: "No, I am not going to take it," is that sane man?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Then he will continue suffering if he doesn't accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Our proposition that everyone is suffering, and struggling how to stop the suffering. This is material world. Everyone is suffering. And the struggle is called progress. So we are offering something also, "Here is something, you accept it, and your sufferings will be mitigated." Nobody can say: "No, we are not suffering." That is insanity. Everyone is suffering.

Prajāpati: This suffering comes from our sinful activities?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66): "I shall give you protection from sinful reaction of your life." Because you are suffering for sinful reaction. Suffering means if you disobey the laws of the state, you suffer. That is sinful. Because you have disobeyed the laws of the state, you are suffering.

Candanācārya: If one has difficulty becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is that suffering?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Candanācārya: That is also suffering?

Prabhupāda: No. What is the difficulty, first of all?

Candanācārya: You once said that if someone is not attracted to chanting, then he is being punished by Yamarāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So if you, if by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you can save your suffering, what is the difficulty not to accept it? Everyone is suffering in this material world, And everyone is trying to get out of the suffering. That is also a fact.

Prajāpati: They try to get out of suffering by committing more sins.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they do not know how to get out of the suffering. (break)

Candanācārya: . . . to tell people who think that they are not suffering that they are actually suffering.

Prabhupāda: That means it is difficult to teach insane person. That's all. Therefore the best means is, without teaching, "Please come here, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra," and takes little prasādam and go home. Then his insanity will be cured. Then he will be all right. This is our point. We don't sermonize in the beginning. We simply request, "All right, you are very good. Nobody is more intelligent than you. Yes. Please come here, sit down, chant, dance. It is very nice. And takes little prasādam. Go home." That is our program. Then we teach. When he comes to his little sanity, then he will be . . . (break)

Prajāpati: . . . Śrīla Prabhupāda, the theologians call contrition. Means an actual thinking about how sinful we are, actually meditating on our sinful condition.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply meditating on sinful condition, that is also good. But what is the counteraction? That we must know. Just like one man is suffering from some disease. He knows that, "I have infected this disease." So simply thinking, "Oh, I have been infected by this disease," that is not good. He must go to a physician to cure it. That is intelligence.

Karandhara: Yes. Or it's like a criminal. If he commits a crime, it's nice that he laments, but he can't just lament. He has to start working positively.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he must go to the state and offer, "Please kill me." Then state may consider, "I have committed this murder, so the law is: I must give my life. So I am prepared." Then immediately he will be excused. Yes. (break)

Karandhara: . . . a devotee came and told Prabhupāda that he committed some wrongdoing, and he was very, very sorry, and he was crying and very sorry, and you said: "That's all right. That's nice. Now do something about it. Engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa's service."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes patient, "Sir, I am suffering like this," "All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine." (break)

Prajāpati: . . . what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say: "That's all right. You may do those things." Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you, "Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life," like that.

Prabhupāda: No good man will say like that. That is the difference between good man and bad man. The same example as I told, that one blind man is going this side, and another man says: "Yes, you are all right. Go this side." This is going on. Either he does not know, this rascal who says: "Yes, you can go this side," that he will fall down in the ocean and die. Both of them do not know. So one blind man, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is giving direction to another blind man. This is going on. Therefore Vedic injunction is to take direction: "You must go to guru." That is in . . . tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Gurum eva, "Must go." Then he will get right direction. Otherwise misguided. (break)

Candanācārya: . . . there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then?

Prabhupāda: When? Guru or . . . first of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru; you are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka: saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition. So guru means to rescue from this forest fire. So therefore it is said, ghanāghanatvam.

A forest fire can be reduced or can be extinguished . . . fire, there must be water. But wherefrom the water will come? Your fire brigade, bucketful of water, will not save. The water must come from cloud. So therefore guru is the cloud. He has taken the mercy from the ocean, or from God, and he pours the mercy. Immediately the fire is extinguished, and you are saved. This is the saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam, prāptasya . . .

One who has received mercy from the Supreme, he can save. Nobody can save. Your so-called fire brigade or bucketful of water will not save. That is not possible. So as these rascals are simply trying to extinguish the blazing fire of material existence by so-called bucketful of water, it will not save. It will be waste of time. If the cloud comes, then it will be saved. So guru is the cloud. That is . . . saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanā . . . ghanāghanatvam means cloud, dense cloud. As soon as there is dense cloud and pours water—finished. All blazing fire finished. That is guru.

And Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, biṣāya-biṣānale dibāniśi hiyā jvale (from Prārthanā): "My heart is burned by the fire of this material existence." Tori bare nā kainu upāya: "I did not make any arrangement for getting out of this fire." Golokero prema-dhana, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana: "Now this hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana is coming from Goloka, from the spiritual world. I did not takes care of it," he is lamenting. So this is the fire extinguishing instrument: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa in this age, and the fire will be extinguished. (break) . . . prema-dhana hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāya. (break)

Prajāpati: . . . śaktyāveśa-avatāra?

Prabhupāda: Guru is the mercy incarnation of God. Mercy incarnation. God is kind to everyone, so He is teaching everyone from within, but still, to make it still more explicit, He sends His mercy in the form of guru.

Prajāpati: The śaktyāveśa-avatāra means Kṛṣṇa coming in a form of a living entity empowered by Him for some special purpose.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Candanācārya: Guru is greater than śaktyāveśa-avatāra.

Prabhupāda: No. Guru is considered as Kṛṣṇa Himself. Guru-rūpa kṛṣṇa hana avatāra. Just to teach the conditioned soul, guru comes himself, er, Kṛṣṇa comes Himself in the form of guru. Therefore we sing in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura's prayer, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ: "In every śāstra, guru is accepted as directly Kṛṣṇa." Sākṣāt. Sākṣāt means directly. Sākṣād-dharitvena, as Kṛṣṇa is accepted in every śāstra, sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktaḥ, it is said, uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, and this statement is accepted by advanced devotees. It is not only statement, but it is accepted.

But the next question is, "Does it mean that guru is Kṛṣṇa? Therefore no more Kṛṣṇa wanted?" No. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya: "Guru is exalted because he is very confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa." Here it is clear. Not that he is respected as Kṛṣṇa, therefore he has become Kṛṣṇa. This is Māyāvāda, "He has become Kṛṣṇa." No. Kintu: "But don't think that there is no more Kṛṣṇa. Finished. Guru is here." Just like the Māyāvādī says, just like this rascal Guruji that, "I am Kṛṣṇa." Not that. Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya. He is the most confidential servant. Vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is clear explanation.

Prajāpati: When we hear . . .

Prabhupāda: Although he is respected as good as Kṛṣṇa, but he never says that, "I am Kṛṣṇa." He says: "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa." And actually he is the most confidential servant of Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we distinguish in this way that sevya-bhagavān and sevaka-bhagavān: "worshipable God and worshiper God." You follow? God, but worshiper God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Person Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Both of them God, but one God is worshipable, and another God is worshiper. So for the disciple, both of them are worshipable because both of them are God. That is the distinction. Sevya-bhagavān, sevaka-bhagavān.

Prajāpati: Therefore, when we hear from the words . . . the words of guru, we are actually hearing Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is said, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. If you please guru, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased, because he is saying the same thing. Just like we are . . . what we are doing? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). We are saying that, "You just surrender to Kṛṣṇa." We are inventing nothing. Therefore I am guru. Because I am saying Kṛṣṇa's words, not my words, therefore I am guru. As soon as I say my words, then I am not guru. This is the significance.

Rūpānuga: You are the only one, Śrīla Prabhupāda, who claims to be servant. The rest of them take Kṛṣṇa's position.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Because they are not guru.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So they are called Māyāvādīs.

Prabhupāda: They are not guru. That is the difficulty, that one who is not guru, he is taking the place of guru. Therefore people are misguided.

Rūpānuga: One man who has written a book on these different so-called spiritual movements has remarked that Your Divine Grace is the only one of all . . . the big difference between our movement and the others is that you claim to be servant, and the others claim to be God.

Prabhupāda: He has written? He has written? Oh.

Rūpānuga: It is in a book talking about different spiritual movements in this country.

Prabhupāda: So he has appreciated this.

Rūpānuga: He has made that remark. He has noted that difference.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Therefore I am unique. Yes. Then I can be . . . become unique. Yes. I am not amongst the rascals.

Rūpānuga: I tell the students . . . they ask me how they can distinguish between gurus. I tell them the real guru claims to be servant, and not God. I said only one guru says he is servant—that is Śrīla Prabhupāda. And they can understand that.

Candanācārya: Sincere people will appreciate that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Prajāpati: In the early days of this movement, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in New York, devotees have said they did not know how to treat Your Divine Grace. They did not know your exalted position. I think we are still very much offensive in our . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I am servant. (laughs) I have no exalted position. Servant. Caitanya Mahāprabhu sat down in a place where people were washing their feet. Yes. (break) . . . a representative of Kṛṣṇa. I came to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Kṛṣṇa has sent so many representatives to help me. I consider like that. Without your help I could not do. So I wanted Kṛṣṇa's help, so Kṛṣṇa has sent you. Therefore you are representative of Kṛṣṇa. That is my conception.

Prajāpati: We're just dogs, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No.

Prajāpati: Barking at your feet, that's all.

Prabhupāda: That is your humbleness. That is nice.

Prajāpati: It's not humbleness. That's fact.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Candanācārya: . . . śāstra that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple does not accept.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Candanācārya: He says that there are some things that the guru says that the disciple will not accept.

Prabhupāda: Who says?

Candanācārya: Jayādvaita told me that in the śāstra it says that. So when the guru says that the disciple is nice, he does not accept.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) That is very good quality. Ah, Jayādvaita has written like that? (laughs)

Candanācārya: No, he was telling me that it was in one śāstra.

Prabhupāda: No, it is very intelligent. Yes. Just like guru does not accept, although he is worshiped like Kṛṣṇa, he never accepts that, "I am Kṛṣṇa." That is our paramparā system. Śiṣya has to accept guru as Kṛṣṇa, but guru will never accept that he is Kṛṣṇa. This is our relationship. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstraiḥ. Samasta-śāstraiḥ, all revealed scripture.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is the unique quality of Vaiṣṇava.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Nowhere we can find these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Candanācārya: One time, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said: "I will go to hell," but none of your disciples accepted that.

Prajāpati: Actually, coming to this country, this is hell.

Prabhupāda: No, I am not in hell. I am with the devotees, so how can I say I am in hell? (laughs) (break) Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vās: "My duty is to serve my guru and live with the devotees." That is Kṛṣṇa's grace. "My mission is to serve my guru, but live with the devotees."

tāṅdera caraṇa sevi bhakta-sane vās

janame janame mor ei abhilāṣ

(Nāma-saṅkīrtana 7)

"This is my desire, life after life." A guru or bhakta does not aspire that he is going to Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa. "Never mind." But their only desire, his only desire, is that to serve the predecessor ācārya and live with devotee. That's all. This is the only ambition. (break) . . . says, tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada yatra gāyanti mad-bhaktāḥ (Padma Purāṇa). Where . . . the place where the devotees are glorifying the Lord, Kṛṣṇa is there. So if Kṛṣṇa is there with the devotees, then wherever devotees are there, that is Vaikuṇṭha. That is Vaikuṇṭha.

Just like our temple. It is Vaikuṇṭha. Because the devotees are chanting the glories of the Lord, so that is Vaikuṇṭha. Vaikuṇṭha is not limited. Vaikuṇṭha . . . as Kṛṣṇa can expand Himself, similarly, Vaikuṇṭha can also be expand, Vṛndāvana can expand. So wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, that is Vai . . . and where is not Kṛṣṇa? And that is to be appreciated. Then if anyone appreciates Kṛṣṇa everywhere, then he is living in the Vaikuṇṭha; he is not living in hell or Los Angeles. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: . . . where pure devotee goes, that place is immediately purified as soon as he is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, because Kṛṣṇa helps. As soon as the pure devotee sings, Kṛṣṇa immediately comes there. So it becomes Vaikuṇṭha. (break)

Prajāpati: We are more fortunate than gopīs, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Walking with you on the beach is better than dancing rāsa dance in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) It is not like that, but we can say, wherever Kṛṣṇa topics are there, it is as good as Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana.

(break) . . . prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). By association, bodhayantaḥ parasparam. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā.

(break) . . . enjoy, and be satisfied in the association of devotees.

(break) . . . article on the subject of "Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist," and let us publish it. That article is very nice. If he writes such articles, the conclusion, if Kṛṣṇa, the supreme scientist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme economist, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme philosopher, Kṛṣṇa, the supreme chemist, Kṛṣṇa—everything, the conclusion is Supreme, Kṛṣṇa—then his activity is fulfilled; he becomes successful. The conclusion should be Kṛṣṇa. That's it. Whatever he may be. He may be a musician, he may be artist, he may be physist, he may be chemist, he may be scientist—whatever he may be, if he writes article on the subject matter and concludes that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, then preach, then he is successful. That's all. Just like you are theologian. You write theology and prove, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." Then your attempt is successful. (break)

We are trying to understand the Supreme, so therefore, as soon as you come to the Supreme, you are successful.

(break) . . . uttama-śloka-guṇānuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22). This is success. With your talent, you simply come to the conclusion that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. That's all. So our business is—because we are neither scientist nor musician, nothing of the sort, layman—we have simply said: "Kṛṣṇa Supreme." That's all. (laughs) Never mind what I am. (break) . . . janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. This is understanding of Supreme, "After many, many births, one who is wise, he will accept Kṛṣṇa and surrender."

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

"He is mahātmā, great soul, who is accepting like that, that Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything."

Prajāpati: You are the supermost mahātmā, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prajāpati: Thank you so much.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya Prabhupāda. All glories to Prabhupāda. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)