760803 - Conversation B - New Mayapur

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

760803R2-NEW MAYAPUR - August 03, 1976 - 39:54 Minutes

Prabhupāda: The whole world is becoming CIA. (laughter) We can say that, "All right, the American have sent their CIA, but why the German business there? They are also CIA?" And where is . . . soon the Russians also will join, the Polish also will join, everyone will join.

Bhagavān: Africans.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: They can't say the Russians are CIA. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. We have got potency to force everyone to join. The Russians have already imperceptibly joined—they have praised my books. That is imperceptible . . . what is called?

Harikeśa: Ajñāta-sukṛti.

Prabhupāda: Ah. In East Germany also, they have placed order. So this is joining. Just like for us, if you bring any other literature, we throw it away immediately. We take it as useless. Actually it is. We have nothing to learn from them, anything. All bogus. Either he's scientist or astronomer or . . . we know they are talking all bogus thing. There may be some truth. Even that truth is there when a child speaks, there is some truth. When a child speaks to his parents, there is some truth; otherwise where is the question of talking? So little portion truth is there, everywhere. But when they talk of big, big things—they are going to Mars and scratching sand there—that we don't believe. That we don't believe. When they talk of this tape recorder, some electronic machine, joining together and it is working, that much care you can take. But when you speak of so many things, that millions of years there were germs and germination; now they are trying to come out, and it is all vacant—these are all bogus. We don't accept. Talking too much. In Bengal it is called yatam When the same child speaks something too much, "Ah, stop." To the extent of his capacity, that's all right. But if you talk more than that, then you are rascal. So they are doing that now. Because they have got some electronic success, or they have manufactured some jet plane, or these, they are now thinking, "Now we have owned over the whole world situation." That is nonsense. They are thinking like that: "Now we have control over the world world." That is yatam, speaking more than their capacity. And so far we are concerned, we don't talk anything, except what is mentioned in the books. That's all. We remain always foolish. And as foolish men, we do not talk. We simply talk what is mentioned by Vyāsadeva, by Śukadeva Gosvāmī. That's all. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu . . . (SB 7.9.45). These things have been discussed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that in the material world, the only pleasure is sex. There is no pleasure. Always working hard like asses, that's all, everyone. Not only in one . . . life after life, life after life. This is material. And . . . (children outside yelling) So why they are here?

Bhagavān: Children?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: I'll tell them. (to devotee outside) Those children playing out there, their terrible screaming's disturbing Prabhupāda.

Harikeśa: They're all the way down the road.

Bhagavān: Get them all off the road.

Prabhupāda: This is the trap of māyā, to keep them captivated by sex attraction. All these living entities who are in this material world, beginning from the higher planetary system down to the ants and germs and flies. This is the primary enjoyment, sex. The central attraction is sex. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). The human being, the same sex desire, they decorate it in a different way. But the central point is the same. "So all right, why? It is enjoyment. Why you are forbidding?" Certain saintly person said that yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tucchaṁ kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is a pleasure of itching sensation. Itching sensation, when you itch, it is very pleasing. But bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). Aftereffect is very bad, suffering. Itching, if you itch more, it aggravates, sometimes causes so many other by-products and so on, so on. That is fact. But everyone knows it that, "I may enjoy sex pleasure now; the aftereffect will be very bad." Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. But why people do it again and again? Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Those who are kṛpaṇa—kṛpaṇa means not brāhmaṇa—those who are not trained up as a brāhmaṇa, they cannot tolerate this itching sensation. They become victimized, and the aftereffect is very, very bad. So either illicit or not illicit, they know it. The modern civilization, they have adopted the means of killing. First of all they try to stop pregnancy by contraceptive method, and still if it is not stopped, then kill. And if he's still born, then again they put up in a box and go away. You know this?

Bhagavān: Put in a box?

Harikeśa: Yes, the baby, they put it in a closet and lock the door and walk out.

Hari-śauri: Oh, in Japan.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is happening in Japan and other places. They put, and when the obnoxious smell comes, they open it and they find. Mother has become so kind. They put in a box and lock it up.

Hari-śauri: Airport lockers.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Hari-śauri: Airport lockers.

Prabhupāda: These are happening. But when you talk of that "You learn how to become brahmacārī," that they will refuse. This is the position. The aftereffect is very, very bad, either you get legally or illegally. Legally, we have to raise the children very nicely. Otherwise, they will, unwanted children, create so much trouble. You have to take care for their proper education, of their clothes. We say, "Never mind, you have got children, give them proper education, make them devotee, make their life successful." We cannot say that "You kill them." That we cannot say. That is not possible. Neither we can pack them in the . . . what is that box?

Hari-śauri: Lockers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome, but we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotee. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry; remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society. We welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents.

Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the gurukula, his child was not even educated to count 1-2-3-4. So I have told him that, "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly, every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up. From the body, they should be trained up how to take bath, how to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa or some Vedic mantra, go to the temple, offer obeisances, prayer, then take their lunch, then . . . in this way, they should be always engaged. Then they'll be trained up. Simple thing. We don't want to train them as big grammarians. No. That is not wanted. That anyone, if he has got some inclination, he can do it personally. There is no harm. General training is that he must be a devotee, a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That should be introduced. Otherwise, the gurukula will be . . . otherwise Jyotirmayī was suggesting the biology. What they'll do with biology? Don't introduce unnecessary, nonsense things. Simple life. Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa. Simply let them be convinced that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead; it is our duty to serve Him. That's all. Huh? . . . (indistinct) . . . What is that? Māyār bośe, jāccho bhese' khāccho hābuḍubu bhāi jīv kṛṣṇa-dās ei biśwās korle to ār duḥkho nāi. So organize. If you have got sufficient place, sufficient scope, let them be trained up very nicely. If some four, five centers like this there are in Europe, the whole face will be changed. Important places like Germany, France, England. Now we are getting place. I like that place, German, on account of this. It has got scope.

Harikeśa: There's no land.

Prabhupāda: That you can acquire. That you can acquire. But building is very nice.

Hari-śauri: We don't own that place, though, do we?

Prabhupāda: Never mind, own or not own. You possess and that's all. You don't own anything. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Do you think it is . . . you own this?

Hari-śauri: No, I was thinking in terms of ISKCON.

Prabhupāda: This is all Kṛṣṇa's property. So long He likes, we shall remain. That's all. I know that. (laughs) Just like we entered Bhaktivedanta Manor without any arrangement. I know that so long Kṛṣṇa will like, we shall . . . if Kṛṣṇa says: "Go away," we shall go away, what is that? Why so much legal implication? Everywhere, although we have got big, big buildings, I don't think we own it. It is Kṛṣṇa's. So long He likes, we shall remain there. If He doesn't like, we shall go away. What is this? Why you should stress on the proprietorship?

Hari-śauri: No, I was just thinking in terms of the karmīs.

Prabhupāda: They are not proprietor.

Harikeśa: Would you like that tomatoes and cucumber and . . .?

Prabhupāda: Yes, bring. Mānasa deho geho jo kichu mor arpiluṅ tuwā pade nanda-kiśora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. "Whatever I have got, it is all Yours." Ānukūlyasya saṅkalpa. Whatever is favorable, take it. That's all. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇa-anuśīlanaṁ bhaktir uttamā (CC Madhya 19.167). This is? What is that? Apple?

Devotee (1): Apple, cucumber, tomato. Unfortunately the apples are not fresh, Śrīla Prabhupāda. The apples are not fresh from the tree, because those apples you saw yesterday were just for cooking. They're very sour. But everything else is fresh.

Bhagavān: They have eating apples.

Devotee (1): Off the tree?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Bhagavān: We have eating apples.

Devotee (1): Haribolānanda said no. He said they're just sour, too sour. Just for cooking.

Bhagavān: That's fresh cucumber?

Devotee (1): I just picked it. And tomatoes.

Bhagavān: And our tomatoes?

Devotee (1): Yes. They're a little warm maybe, because they've been in the sun all day.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): Maybe they are a little warm, because they've been in the sun all day.

Bhagavān: The peas were good last night?

Prabhupāda: Very good. But I could not digest them. That is my fault, not the . . . but, oh, it was so nice, palatable. Chickpeas . . . chickpeas, grow fresh. Eat very nicely, keep strong, drink milk, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bās. Don't depend on this outside work and then gradually become debauch, thief, rogues, prostitutes. Is that civilization? They cannot imagine that the modern civilization can go without all these things. Do they not? Slaughterhouse, brothel, cheating, diplomacy, roguery . . .

Hari-śauri: Drinking houses.

Prabhupāda: . . . drinking—without this, no civilization. We are quite opposed. We want to show it is possible, yes. You can stop all this nonsense and still you go on as a perfect civilized man, with character, knowledge, satisfaction, everything. They are trying to gather knowledge by sending so many machines up to that. We have already got. We say you cannot go there, you are simply wasting your time. We have got so much knowledge. No, you can attempt, just like a monkey. That's all right. But our verdict is already there. You cannot go there. Ten years before I said this moon excursion is simply childish and waste of money in my Easy Journey to Other Planets. I am not a scientist, but how I dared to say? Because I know. I have got full knowledge. That is the difference. Without becoming scientist, we can give our verdict. Veda-pramāṇam. (Prabhupāda is eating) Hmm, better give this fresh fruit. Don't bring all rotten. In the market you cannot get fresh. All three hundred years old. Anything fresh, that is full of vitamin. Grow fresh, take fresh. In India there is no system to purchase three-hundred-years-old bread and eat. It must be freshly made. Wife is preparing in the simple oven, husband is eating, children are eating.

Harikeśa: Everybody can keep healthy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know Yaśodāmāyī calling Kṛṣṇa, "Come back! Your father is waiting!" You remember this? That is the Indian system. The father and the children, they sit down, mother will bring fresh dāl, rice and cāpāṭi, and distribute, and they eat it. We used to do that. Along with father we shall sit down for eating, separately. There was no need of table—on the ground. And mother will distribute, cook. No servant; mother personally, wife personally.

Bhagavān: In the Kṛṣṇa Book you describe that in Kṛṣṇa's palace there were so many beautiful maidservants, but Rukmiṇī chose to fan Kṛṣṇa personally.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, in Indian family system, when the husband comes from office, the wife takes care immediately. Even in these days. That is, at least, a manifestation of faithfulness. (aside) No, don't bother. This has fallen.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So how to?

Hari-śauri: Requires some steps or something.

Bhagavān: You go on walk tonight?

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Bhagavān: They can fix all your . . .

Hari-śauri: Someone can come in whilst we're gone.

Prabhupāda: The cucumber cutting, there is a process. I'll show you. Sometimes cucumber is bitter. By that process it can be avoided.

Harikeśa: You mean chop the top and you go . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. That's all right.

Devotee (2): This is bitter?

Prabhupāda: We tasted one piece. Yes, little bitter.

Bhagavān: (tape of Prabhupāda singing can be heard playing outside) When they work in the fields, we have speakers all over the land, and they hear you chanting all day long.

Prabhupāda: Very good. This should be arranged with lemon juice.

Devotee (1): You want me to bring some?

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you have got these fruits, there is no need of purchasing.

Bhagavān: The tomatoes are supposed to be as good as oranges.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhagavān: The tomatoes are supposed to be as healthy as oranges.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In our childhood, these tomatoes were called foreign eggplant, bilāti beguna. And because it was foreign, nobody will touch it. In our childhood we'd never eat the tomato. It was rejected by the whole Indian Hindu culture.

Harikeśa: Tomatoes don't grow in India?

Prabhupāda: No. It was imported. Because it was imported, they would not touch. These mill cloth, because they were imported, it would . . . no gentleman will touch. No religious function would allow to use mill-made cloth. And so far medicine is concerned, they would never touch it. This is the difficulty. Then Macaulay sent a confidential report that if you want to keep Indians as Indian, you'll never be able to do like that. Then they will gradually introduce all this nonsense—drinking tea, drinking wine. "You are uncivilized. Whatever British are doing, they are civilized way." England's work in India. And they were given facilities, those who were English-educated. In this way, they first of all tried to make the whole Indian population Anglici . . . not possible to all. At least, those who are educated. So the so-called Indian-educated, they took it seriously. Just like our Bon Mahārāja: English way of living, with fork and . . . yes. He has taken it seriously. He is under impression, "Whatever is foreign." In this way Indian culture was killed. The Muhammadans, they had no such idea. They wanted to rule over, that's all. And the money was not going to outside. They were spending lavishly—in India. The money was in India, but these people, they're dispersing all the money, jewels and everything valuable, outside India. So they became poverty-stricken, and culturally conquered. (aside) Not so many. This will be enough.

Bhagavān: One time you said that they criticized you when you were going to America because you did not know about the knife and the fork?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bon Mahārāja. And the book English Etiquette. Very big book. How to sit, how to laugh, how to smile, how to pass water, how to this . . . (laughter) And they would learn it and waste time.

(pause)

Devotee (1): This is the first . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So, if you grow more, and offer fruits to the Deity in the evening, in this way, very nice. You can distribute that.

Bhagavān: Would you like to go for a walk soon?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Bhagavān: I'll get everything ready. The palanquin was nice?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is nice. In the morning also you give me fresh fruit and that milk and medicine, that's all. And when I wish, someday we can take purī and . . . (break) (end)