680325 - Conversation - San Francisco

Conversations by Date, 1968

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

 Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this lecture

680325R1-SAN FRANCISCO - March 25, 1968 - 32:21 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (break) . . . it is not regularly in the material world, but it is heard that there is a stone which you touch with an iron and it becomes gold. Sanātana Gosvāmī had a little piece of touchstone. You know that story? The story is that people generally worship, ordinary materialistic people, they worship Lord Śiva to get material benediction. So one poor Brahmin he worshiped Lord Śiva very seriously and Lord Śiva asked him "what do you want?"

He said: "Sir I'm very poor man so give me some wealth so that I maybe peaceful throughout my whole life." Then Lord Śiva directed him . . . that, "You go to Vrindāvan. There is one great devotee, Sanātana Gosvāmī. He can give you that." So he went to Vrindāvan and met Sanātana Gosvāmī and told him. "That I have come to you, under the direction of Lord Śiva. I worshiped Lord Śiva very successfully, and I prayed from him some sources of my happiness. So he has directed me to see you, that you have got that thing. So please give me that."

So Sanātana Gosvāmī said: "Well, what can I give you? Oh, all right. Can you find out some stone in that garbage?" There was heaps of garbage, and the man searched out and found out a stone. "Sir, do you mean to say this stone?" "Yes." "So what is this?" "This is touchstone. You take it and touch to iron, it will become gold." "Oh, you are very good. You're so . . . now I shall become the richest man in the world. I shall take heaps of iron and touch with this stone, and it becomes gold."

So he, with great joy, he went out and he tried that actually, touching the stone, iron is becoming gold. But he thought that "Lord Śiva directed that Sanātana Gosvāmī has the greatest benediction. I do not think this stone is greatest benediction, because it was placed with garbage." So he came back and appealed to Sanātana Gosvāmī that "Lord Śiva told me you have got something most valuable. I don't think this stone is most valuable. Otherwise, why would you keep it with the garbage? You must have something more valuable. So you must give me that, because Lord Śiva directed me to receive from you."

Then Sanātana Gosvāmī told him, "Would you like to take that?" "Yes, sir. I have come for that purpose." So he asked him, "First of all, throw away the stone in the Yamunā River." So he threw away the stone. "Sit down and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Devotees: Oh!

Prabhupāda: "Forget everything. Sit down with me and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Gargamuni: He did it?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he associated with sādhu, Lord Śiva, Sanātana Gosvāmī. So everything was purified, changed. By association, good association, everything is possible. Therefore you have to make this association of Kṛṣṇa consciousness so perfect that anyone who comes in contact with that association, he becomes purified automatically.

That association is so important. Anyone who will come in contact with the association, he'll be purified. Just like by association one becomes contaminated, similarly, by counter-association, one becomes free from contamination. (break)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Swāmījī? I'd like to ask you is this good enough for a flute? This would be for the head of the flute.

Prabhupāda: Wood?

Kṛṣṇa dāsa: No its ivory. I cast it in gold.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This ivory?

Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Yes, that's ivory.

Prabhupāda: So what do you want to do?

Kṛṣṇa dāsa: That would be on the head of the flute.

Prabhupāda: Flute? Oh, nice.

Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Are the lion's all right?

Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark, shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that. But that is also good.

Śyāmasundara: Swāmījī? I have obtained today a large piece of . . .

Prabhupāda: Stone?

Śyāmasundara: Black yes. Marble. For Kṛṣṇa's . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Very nice. So it is not so high. How much is the height?

Śyāmasundara: This one is only for practice. And then I have obtained . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh.

Śyāmasundara: . . . a large one. It is very difficult stone, because it's like glass almost. I have to practice. And later a larger one.

Prabhupāda: So first of all you . . . this is called, what is called, test stone.

Śyāmasundara: Yes. From Belgium.

Prabhupāda: Praṣṭhipāta, it is called in Bengali. They test gold. By rubbing on the stone, they can understand what is the value of the gold. In India they are simply keeping a stone like this, and you take something golden, and they will at once test by simply rubbing on it. So experienced. By the glazing of the gold they will understand what is the value of this. It is experience. But this stone is used.

Śyāmasundara: Marble?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, as soon as you get that church, all the gṛhasthas and brahmacārīs, they will have to bring money. Because we are incuring lots of debts and we are thinking of purchasing another house also. Just (laughter) by the side for the gṛhasthas. America is well known for having money. Why should we be poor. (laughter)

Devotee: Because the people who we attract don't have money.

Prabhupāda: No you have got money. Enough money.

Devotee: The millionaires we don't have.

Devotee (woman): You are going to be one . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: I came for this purpose (laughter) America is fabulously wealthy. So I shall erect 108 temples there.

(pause) Your daughter is seeing Jagannatha. So this impression, this childish impression never goes away. It will remain. That child, what is the name? Tulsi Devi? Oh that child is very intelligent and it is not even one month old. But, it wants to turn. I, that day I was seeing. He's very healthy child, yes?

Devotee (woman): She treats him so that he has to be very sturdy. She's the kind of mother that treats him so that he is very sturdy.

Devotee (Mother of boy): When he was four days old he came to his first kirtan.

Prabhupāda: Fortunate. Somehow or other hearing kirtan it never goes in vain. It will act. So you are giving her cows milk? She is drinking nicely?

Devotee (Mother of boy): Very nicely. She likes . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: She is passed six months?

Devotee (Mother of boy): Yes, two weeks passed. I didn't have a tooth until I was twenty two months.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break)

Śyāmasundara: The other day you were talking about demigods and that some soul inhabits the body of a demigod. Like some soul being in the body of Śiva and maybe the soul going into the body of a Brahmā. So I was wondering, after our death . . .

Prabhupāda: No Śiva, cannot be. Brahmā can . . . one soul can raise up to the position of Brahmā.

Devotee: Śiva is eternal? Yes?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: What I was wondering was . . . if, if this is the way with all the bodies in the world is it, like after the soul goes away from my body. My body will remain the same and then somebody else will come along and live in my body.

Prabhupāda: No your body will be destroyed. This body, our body will be destroyed. The body does not remain it is destroyed.

Śyāmasundara: The point more like my body will never be created again.

Prabhupāda: This is a flash only. Just like bubbles in the ocean once formed and next moment there is no . . . nothing no trace. Again another bubble forms. This particular body gone forever never to come back again. Yes.

Devotee (woman): The demigods die . . . they die?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh yes. Their body is like our body. Simply duration of life is longer. You live for hundred years they live for ten thousand years. Or more than that. That is the difference. Just like ant live for few days you live for hundred years for the ant it is wonderful.

If ant is informed that there is another animal, man who lives hundred years. Oh, the ant will be surprised. Oh it is not possible. Similarly when you hear (break) in your . . . (indistinct) . . . you think it is wonderful, but it is not wonderful. There are different grades of body within this universe.

Devotee: Swamji, on the planets besides Kṛṣṇaloka do the people there worship the Nārāyaṇa forms?

Prabhupāda: No, Kṛṣṇa. Nārāyaṇa form in Vaikuṇṭha.

Devotee: On the Vaikuṇṭha planets do they worship the four arm form?

Prabhupāda: Nārāyaṇa, four hand yes. There all living entities are devotees. They are also four handed. Just like Nārāyaṇa.

Devotee: If we fail to obtain Kṛṣṇaloka in this life do we go to one of the Vaikuṇṭha planets?

Prabhupāda: If you want to go to Kṛṣṇaloka you will go to Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (woman): Will you be there Swamji? Will you be there?

Prabhupāda: If I am competent then I shall be there.

Devotee (woman): That will be very very nice.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: What percent are we when we go to Kṛṣṇaloka. What percent are we?

Prabhupāda: Don't be caught by the draft board, is that not nice? There was one clergyman lecturing in a Sheffield coalmine that "If you don't worship Jesus Christ, then you will go to hell." So first of all one man asked him . . . first of all, the clergyman inquired, "Do you know Jesus Christ?" So they were silent.

So one of them inquired, "What is his number?" They thought that "Jesus Christ must be one of us," I mean to say, workers in the mine. So he must have got a number. So "What is his number?" Then the clergyman could understand that, "To whom I am speaking." So then he explained, "Oh, Jesus Christ is not one of you. He is son of God. He has come to deliver you.

If you don't worship Him, then you will go to hell."Then one of them said, "What is hell?" Then he described, "It is very dark, moist, and so on." So they were silent, because they work in the mine. (laughter) They were silent. "What is this hell? It is all right." Then the clergyman thought how to impress them.

Then, after a few minutes, he said: "No. The hell is very dangerous." "How?" "There is no newspaper." "Oh, horrible." Because in your Western countries everyone is fond of newspaper. So he stressed, he hit the point, that "There is no newspaper." So we have to hit to the point that there is no taxman.

So what is your question?

Devotee: My question was . . . no, that's a good answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The materialistic life is full of anxiety. That is the main symptom of materialistic life. You are always anxious, everyone. President Johnson, he's anxious, "Oh, my presidency is going on. Now I shall no longer be president." He's thinking, very much anxious. And similarly, you are also thinking, another man is also thinking.

Everyone is anxious. Nobody is free from anxiety. And when you go to Kṛṣṇaloka or any Vaikuṇṭha planet, the first thing is that you have no anxiety. That is spiritual life, always joyful.

No anxiety. Because she knows, "My mother is there. She will protect me from everything."

So no anxiety means when you know that, "Kṛṣṇa will protect me," then no anxiety. To become in the family of Kṛṣṇa. We are already in the family of Kṛṣṇa, but in a different way. Just like if one is in the prison house, he is in the government's protection, but in a different way.

Devotee (woman): Swāmījī . . . (indistinct)

Yamunā: Swāmījī, Jānakī-devī wrote me this very nice letter where she had a dream that there was a gigantic platform above the surface of the earth, and all of our devotees, our Godbrothers and sisters and you, were assembled on this gigantic platform for saṅkīrtana.

And we had such a thunderous joyous, magnificent kīrtana, that the whole earth . . . when you said, "Jaya oṁ paraṁ paramahaṁsa," the whole earth bowed down to you like this. And we were all crying, so happy. And you said, "Now my Guru Mahārāja is satisfied." That was her dream.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much. Yes. Thank you for your dreaming like that. It is very pleasing to me. Yes, I want to see like that. That dreaming is also nice.

Devotee: Swāmījī, the dream world is . . . is the dream world a real world?

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is reflection of the real world. Reflection is real for the time being. This world is also dream—for the time being. Because this body is not permanent, so it is also a dream—a dream for hundred years or fifty years or seventy years. But that dream is fifty minutes.

At night we see the dreams of fifty minutes, and this dream is fifty years. That's all. It is a question of time. It is also dream. But dream is reality . . . so long we see it and enjoy it, that is reality. Just like a man in dream he's crying. It is dream. But the effect is there. Reaction is there. In that sense, dream is reality.

Reality, temporary reality, flickering reality. Otherwise, it is reality. And, in that respect, the whole thing is a dream. Anything material that is dream svapna-draṣṭur ivāñjasā it is just like dream (SB 2.9.1). It is stated in the Bhagavad. After all, we should remember that a dream is pertaining to this body. So far I am concerned, spirit soul I am reality I'm not dreaming at any stage.

Because I am the seer when I'm sleeping the dream in sleeping I'm seeing, I'm there. This dream this body or that body or any other body I am the seer so I am eternal and the dream is pertaining to this changing body. Or changing circumstances or the changing condition that is dream. So I being reality and eternal I will have to find out my eternal engagement. This dream engagement is temporary.

Therefore, if I'm intelligent enough then I'll have to find out my eternal engagement. That eternal engagement is Kṛṣṇa consciousness and to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is eternal. So we are trying to transfer our activity from dream to fact. Everything dream either in sleeping or in awakening. Everything dream because it has no reality simply a question of time.

Therefore our business is how to transfer ourself from this position of dreaming to the position of reality. Therefore we have to change the consciousness. If we change our consciousness then consciousness will carry me to the reality. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is reality, Kṛṣṇa is reality. So if my consciousness continue at the time of my death that is the critical point. The consciousness will carry me to a particular type of body next.

So if my consciousness continues Kṛṣṇa then it will carry me too . . .

(break). So I have to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that at the last moment I may not forget Kṛṣṇa. Then my life is successful. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, as the man thinks of, so his next life begins. The example is given, very nice, just like air blowing so if the air is blowing over a nice Rose garden the aroma is carried to other place.

Rose aroma and if the air is blowing on a filthy place the aroma is carried by the air to other place. Similarly the mental condition consciousness the subtle form of my existence. So, if that subtle form of existence carries aroma of Kṛṣṇa then you get next body Kṛṣṇaloka. And if your consciousness carries something else then you get another body. Therefore we have to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness so seriously that not even for a moment we forget Kṛṣṇa.

Our activities our engagement . . . our thinking, our feeling, our willing. We should always think of how to propagate this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Make plan, write books, write literature distribute it. Distribute prasādam try to convince. Then you will have no other engagement than Kṛṣṇa consciousness. (break) (end)