770124 - Conversation B - Bhuvanesvara

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

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770124R2-BHUVANESVARA - January 24, 1977 - 18:33 Minutes

Prabhupāda: That is the difference in . . . (break)

Satsvarūpa: Then, in years to come—like five years, ten years, twenty years—how will we be able to keep up our relationship with the universities that we have now? Now they think highly of us, that we've published these books, and they've written all these reviews, that "This is a great contribution." We won't be able to . . . Well, they'll just have them in their libraries, and then we'll switch fields. We'll go to the common man.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hmm. Let them . . . If the university authorities agree to teach students . . .

Satsvarūpa: Text orders.

Prabhupāda: The text order. That will be nice.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. I have some of those from the United States. Here is one. Twenty-two Bhagavad-gītās was ordered on December lst.

Prabhupāda: That will be nice.

Satsvarūpa: Thirteen . . .

Prabhupāda: Let them introduce as text for studying by the students.

Satsvarūpa: That we can still push.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A new batch of students will come—new books will be sold. Text books.

Hari-śauri: Every new batch . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . .requires more books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every year, the new batches of student, and you'll have opportunities of selling a new set. If the university professors cooperate—they must; they should—then we'll have every year a large number of books sold to the . . .

Hari-śauri: If you bring more small books . . . Like you were going to do Padma Purāṇa . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we can give.

Hari-śauri: . . .and the Upaniṣads, like that. Those will also be very . . .

Prabhupāda: That will be nice.

Satsvarūpa: So far . . .

Prabhupāda: I was training, but they have not become so expert. As I am doing Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad . . . they could do Padma Purāṇa, Viṣṇu Purāṇa, Brahma-vaivarta Purāṇa in the same way. But our students are not so expert.

Hari-śauri: And no one can give the purports that you give. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: A little progress, they think they have become a great scholar—"Now we are for bhajana. Here there is no chance of bhajana. Let us go and bhajana." Ei chure pākā. Ei chure pākā, ei chure mean unripe jackfruit. Unripe jackfruit has become yellow, by a stunted growth. You know stunted growth?

Satsvarūpa: Something stops growing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Growth is not there, like a dwarf, and he has become fifty years old. Vidvatvaṁ vayasaṁ-vinā . . . No, vayasaṁ vidvatvaṁ vinā. Where is Nitāi now? You know?

Satsvarūpa: I heard he was in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: He's making bhajana.

Satsvarūpa: He's making poison.

Prabhupāda: Oh, he's distributing the poison.

Satsvarūpa: Yeah, well I heard about it. I heard some letter he wrote.

Prabhupāda: To?

Hari-śauri: No. That was that letter that you got.

Satsvarūpa: There was another letter that Yogānanda, an accomplice of his, wrote to another person in California, saying that he should also come to Vṛndāvana; Nitai had found all this new secrets.

Prabhupāda: That will happen. Sahajiyā.

Hari-śauri: Posing himself as a big, learned man.

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "When our men will be sahajiyā, he will be more dangerous."

Satsvarūpa: Our own men.

Prabhupāda: Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, he said that "When our men will be sahajiyā, oh, they'll be more dangerous." So our men are becoming, some of them, sahajiyās. This very word he said, that "When our men will be sahajiyā, he'll be more dangerous."

Hari-śauri: Without any proper realization, on the basis of being able to read Sanskrit, they delve into all kinds of books, and then they pick fault—"Oh, this rule is not being followed. This is wrong. This is wrong."

Satsvarūpa: "We don't chant sixty-four rounds, so that is very bad. We'll never make any progress."

Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā.

Hari-śauri: No faith in the spiritual master. (pause)

Satsvarūpa: So far, though, we have not learned a way to sell standing orders to the common man.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Satsvarūpa: You say now the standing orders, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, after the universities, should be sold in every home. So far, no one has learned how to do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: That remains to be done.

Prabhupāda: Every gentleman should have a valuable library of these. That we want. Then our preaching is successful.

Hari-śauri: Once people recognize the worth of spiritual literature, then they'll purchase. Just like they sell these Encyclopaedia Britannicas from house to house . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . .on the basis, "You've got so many children. They need this knowledge and education for when they go to school." So they purchase whole volumes.

Prabhupāda: Introducing as study book in higher colleges, universities, text book, then it will be . . . What is the use, a so-called scholar having a Ṣaṭ-sandarbha? And this has been failure. Our one Godbrother, he did. Simply he printed. It was not sold, and then it was mishandled, distributed like anything.

Hari-śauri: What was that?

Prabhupāda: That Ananta Vāsudeva, my Godbrother, he printed so many Gosvāmī literatures, but it was not successful.

Satsvarūpa: Even when I went to the convention in America, one convention, this woman professor, they were all excited. She has just translated that Vidagdha-mādhava. But she had no understanding. She was talking about what the rasa is and Rādhārāṇī, but it's all like psychology or sex literature.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They say "sex religion." "Religious perfection through sex." That is their idea. That Rajneesh is doing that. Rajneesh?

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Satsvarūpa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: And Freud also.

Hari-śauri: All of them.

Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana . . . Caitanya Mahāprabhu said this sex is the more dangerous than drinking poison for person who are going to advance in spiritual understanding. And they are taking—"Sex is the way of perfection." Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, hā hanta hā hanta viṣa-bhakṣana apy asādhu. If one takes poison, that is criminal. So this sex indulgence in devotional life is more dangerous than poison-taking, criminality. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's . . . But the sahajiyās, they are taking that through sex, their life . . . What Gosvāmī? Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Caṇḍīdāsa. Jayadeva Gosvāmī, Caṇḍīdāsa, they read, and they say, "Oh, through sex one can achieve the highest." They publicly say in Vṛndāvana, "I am Kṛṣṇa; I am parakīya rasa. You have to select one woman who is not your wife, kept wife, parakīya."

Hari-śauri: I've seen one man, he comes sometimes to our temple dressed as a woman.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sakhībhekhī.

Hari-śauri: Yes, I've seen him a few times.

Prabhupāda: Sakhībekhī. There are so many apasampradāyas, thirteen at least in the counting by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura: āula, bāula, kartābhajā, neḍā, daraveśa, sāṅi, sahajiyā, sakhībekhī. This sakhībekhī. Smārta, jāta-gosāñi, ativāḍī, cūḍādhārī, gaurāṅga-nāgarī. These thirteen, fourteen apasampradāyas. They are passing as Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sampradāya. But they're the worst, rejected. The sakhībekhī, dressing like . . . To cheat Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is after the gopīs, so they have dressed like gopī, and Kṛṣṇa does not know that he's a rascal man. (laughter) Just see. This is their intelligence, to . . . "I have become a sakhī. Kṛṣṇa will embrace me and kiss me." So Kṛṣṇa is so fool. (laughs) (laughter) These rascals are doing that. Sakhībhekhī. There was a Lalitā-sakhi in Navadvīpa. All women surrounding him. Somebody is dressing him with red . . . what is called?

Satsvarūpa: Kuṅkuma?

Prabhupāda: No. Alta it is called. And gamta(?). Somebody is giving massage. Lalitā Didi. Rayarāma(?) dāsa's guru-bhai. This Rāma dāsa's, I have . . . "Nitāi gaura rādhe śyāma." This Rāma dāsa and that Lalitā, they're Godbrothers. So many . . . And amongst them there was fight—"You said that you have done this wrong," "You said you have done this wrong." But both of them are dead and gone. There are so many that, sakhībhekhī. All women. Sometimes he—I have heard all this—he will observe the menstrual period. (laughter) To laugh or lament? "He's in menstrual period." This Ramakrishna did. He was also, because Jagamati experimented.

Hari-śauri: Oh, he became a woman sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, sometimes. And there was menstrual, menstruation period. He became so perfect, there was menstruation. (laughs) (laughter) This rascal Ramakrishna did it. And he was going to make experiment of the Muhammadan realization by eating . . .

Hari-śauri: Meat.

Prabhupāda: . . .go-māṁsa, cow's flesh.

Hari-śauri: I think you said that he . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . .was refused entry into some temple because of that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was such a rascal. He was actually impotent, and he could not have sex with his wife, and he addressed, "Oh, you are my mother." And these rascals took: "Oh, he is so advanced that he could see his wife as mother. Oh, self-realized. By worshiping Kālī he has become so perfect, he sees everyone as mother." Such a rascal he was, and he is God. These things are going on. But I am speaking not my manufacture. I heard it from my Guru Mahārāja. He told me that these are these, like that. Not unauthorized. I don't speak anything which I have not heard from my Guru Mahārāja.

Hari-śauri: It's just so difficult to believe how these rascals could do it, I mean, pose themselves like that.

Prabhupāda: And when we were meeting, we had so many talks. One of these talks were that, (laughing) this. He told me that, Guru Mahārāja.

Hari-śauri: Complete loss of intelligence.

Prabhupāda: It is stated clearly, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.20). Rascals are hṛta-jñānāḥ. They have no knowledge even.

Hari-śauri: Lusty desires within their heart.

Prabhupāda: Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ. For kāma . . . Just like one is lusty for sex, they are for false name: "I shall become God. People will adore me." This is their . . . "And we shall bluff like this, by magic, word jugglery." This is the aim.

Hari-śauri: Simply cheating process.

Prabhupāda: No aim how to make people understand about God. They have no such, neither they do know personally. Their only aim is that "If I become a God-man, if I can bluff, jugglery of words and this magic and . . . then I'll . . ." The same material thing, pratiṣṭha. As ordinary people, they are working so hard for some material gain, material reputation, these people are like that, in a different manner. This Satya Sai Baba, this Vivekananda, this, all of them like that. They want some material position, misusing their mediocre knowledge. That's all.

Hari-śauri: It's called a "cloak of respectability."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Saintly person.

Prabhupāda: Yes. To become saintly person, exploit the person, ordinary fools. That is going on. (pause) So we shall now . . .?

Hari-śauri: Yes. (end).