761103 - Conversation B - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1976

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

761103R2-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1976 - 42.40 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . and we don't smoke even. We don't spend a paisa even for sense gratification.

Jagadīśa: They squander billions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jagadīśa: They're squandering billions of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And they . . . you spend money for cigarette, for cinema, for restaurant—unnecessarily. We don't spend a farthing even for all this purpose. Simply we take little rice, chāpāṭi, that's all. And still, you are culprit?

Hari-śauri: They . . . even the papers report that, that we spend very lavishly for the Deities, but for ourselves we only eat very simply.

Prabhupāda: So is it not credit? We spend for God. We are servant of God. We want to see God gorgeously situated, and for us we have no comforts, we don't care for any comfort. We simply spend minimum, just to keep the body and soul together, that's all. This is our principle. We don't spend a farthing for our sense gratification. This should be noted down if some case is there. This should be presented. We don't go to restaurant, we don't go to cinema, we don't spend lavishly for dress or something else. No. Neither for furniture. (laughter) Eh? If you sit down in a . . . a pad, is that faulty?

Hari-śauri: Then when they go to any of our temples, they're amazed because we don't . . .

Prabhupāda: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic; this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment, either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that. We live very simply. After fifteen days we shave; there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.

Hari-śauri: It's because of those things . . .

Prabhupāda: At least I save doctors bill. (chuckles) I am always sick, but I never go to the doctor. Give me little neem give me little this (sounds of hand striking table), that's all. Then what less expenditure we can make it. As far as possible do not go even to the doctor.

Hari-śauri: Well, it's because of these things that they're wondering, well then, what do we do with the money?

Prabhupāda: We spend for Kṛṣṇa. Just like spending eight lakhs of rupees in Bombay for Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, every month.

Prabhupāda: Every month.

Hari-śauri: We just have to show them how many books we are printing and everything, too.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: It's not that we're letting the money sit and accumulating.

Prabhupāda: No. I am daily canvassing Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, "Print book! I don't want to keep the money in the bank. Convert into the books and keep it in our . . ." I am asking.

Hari-śauri: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Whatever little money I've got, I don't want to keep in the bank. I want to convert it and purchase paper, print book. Then these rascals will never be able to take anything from us.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: That I mean I am asking every time. Ask Gopāla that, "Print books and keep it nicely, otherwise somebody may steal and sell in the market." Our books should be printed and kept very safely. This is our program. And we are speaking from the Vedic literature. We don't manufacture any magic, any jugglery, any mystic power. We have no mystic power. So which point they will find fault? (laughs) I don't think we have got any loophole.

Hari-śauri: We just simply have to . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: . . . present our whole program and . . .

Prabhupāda: Our only business is how to establish Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the only business. Our quarrel with our men—Why this temple is not clean? Why there is no flower in the Deity room?—this is our fight. We have no other cause of fight. And why should we show magic? But these inquiries are going on, it is good—these rascals will be exposed.

Hari-śauri: Hmm. The people are so confused because they don't know . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: . . . what's bona fide and what is not now.

Prabhupāda: Neither they want. They are becoming sceptic.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non–bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non–bona fide.

Hari-śauri: It's very easy to just try to brush it all under the carpet and forget about it.

Prabhupāda: Chorer upor rag kore bhuye bhaat khawa. (Eating fake rice in anger at the thief.) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore. I shall eat on the floor." Chorer upor rag kore bhuye bhaat khawa. (Eating fake rice in anger at the thief.)

Hari-śauri: You give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean to say that all the money you get . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.

Hari-śauri: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Every country. So why they do not take the Bhagavad-gītā as the standard?

Hari-śauri: Eventually they will, if we push it on.

(pause)

Prabhupāda: My mother was very much fond of pickles. After resting in the afternoon, she would take something very sour, pickle. We used to take with her also. (laughs) We were small children. My mother died when I was only fourteen years old.

(long pause)

Prabhupāda: (aside) What else? All right, bring it.

Hari-śauri: Potato pakorā.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Hmm. (break) . . . just in front of our house, attached to our house. That means the house belonged to one of our relatives, and his son, stepson, she sold the whole house to a Marwadi without the knowledge of this, my . . . she was in relation grandmother. So when the house was sold in those days, about say about 100 years ago . . . not 100 years—about 90 years. In Mahatma Gandhi Road, most important—that Mullik's house you have seen; that was one of the Mullik's house—for 12,000 rupees. One bighā of land, and grand building. So it was unknown to the stepmother, the stepson sold it. Then he appealed to the high court, that, "I belong to a respectable family and this my spoiled stepson has sold the house without my knowledge. Then where shall I go?" The high court considered that, "The drunkard son has sold at a cheap price, and she's belongs to a respectable family, where she'll go?" And the high court order was, "The half of the house shall be used by this lady, during her lifetime. You cannot take possession," the Marwadi who purchased. So under that grandmother we used to live. Therefore this half portion of the house was a Marwadi school. So it is just like our temple and this. So my father first admitted me in that Marwadi school. So I learned this devanāgarī there. For a few days I was going. I was the only Bengali student there. Because I was little, my father thought that instead of going outside the house, within the house there is a school—so get him admitted. The school name was Visuddhananda Marwadi Vidyalaya, or something like that, and later on they constructed huge building, Visuddhananda Vidyalaya. Then the house was vacated. So in the beginning I was admitted in a Marwadi school and I learned a little Hindi there, that's all.

Bhagatjī: Thodi Hindi aap jaan gaye. (You learnt a little Hindi.)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) That was little chance also, understanding Hindi. And I was maybe seven, six or seven years old, that's all. Then somebody met at Saharanpur. That was of course not in the school. Then in our college there were many up-country class friends, Scottish Churches College. One of them was that Grinanatha, he came here, Wo Dinanatha jo aya tha na, idhar kuch din thehra, wo vakil. (That Dinanatha who came here, he stayed for a few days, the lawyer.)

Bhagatjī: Ji, parcel ayi thi. (Yes, there was a parcel for him.)

Prabhupāda: He was pleader in the police court. M.A., B.A. Now, I repeatedly told him that "You stay here, you can write Hindi."

Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): He didn't stay here?

Prabhupāda: He stayed for one week or fifteen days. Raat me zyada khasi hoti hai? (Does the coughing increase at night?)

Bhagatjī: Raat me nahi hoti . . . (indistinct) . . . sote huye bilkul nahi hoti. (At night, there is no coughing at all as I am fast asleep.)

Devotee (2): L-A-R-Y-N-X. "Cavity with enclosing muscles and mucus membrane behind and communicating with nose, mouth and larynx."

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Here this side, this space some connection. When it is affected that is called "pharyngitis".

Hari-śauri: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: I know some of the medical terms.

Bhagatjī: What is the medicine for . . .

Prabhupāda: No, this disease is called pharyngitis.

Bhagatjī: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Kitna disease ho sakta hai! (There is no limit to these bodily diseases.) Śarīraṁ vyādhi-mandiram. It is a temple of disease. The temple of disease . . . temple of miseries. Not only disease, there are so many other things. Huh? Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14), simply giving trouble. Śarīra-bandha. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Deha, deha means kleśada, kleśada, troublesome. They do not know this science. And they do not know how to get out of this body. There is no science. This is the only science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They do not know this science, they do not know what is the real position, how troubles come, how we are suffering. Nothing of the sort. And our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is simply dealing with this, how to get out of this entanglement of the body. That is the only problem. And the materialistic person, they do not think it as a problem. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). We are dealing with the real problems, and others, they do not know what is the problems, what to speak of dealing with them. Completely in ignorance, how the body is changing, why there are different forms of life, wherefrom they're coming. They do not deal with these things.

Hari-śauri: Everybody thinks.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: Everybody thinks their body is for enjoying things. They think it's the source of pleasure.

Prabhupāda: That enjoyment that God's Children? They also thought it is enjoyment, you see? The hippies are thinking, "Enjoying." And others, little polished way. They're also the same, in a polished way, by dressing nicely. Eh? Everyone is in ignorance, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Find out this verse.

Bhagatjī: Ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Bhagatjī: Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat.

Prabhupāda: Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Bhagatjī: This is from the Seventh Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Mmm?

Bhagatjī: Seventh Chapter.

Prabhupāda: Seventh, yes. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14).

Bhagatjī: See if it's Seven, fifteenth or fourteenth. (devotees look for verse)

(pause)

Prabhupāda: About the gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau: sleeping and eating and sense enjoyment conquered. So no sleeping, no eating and no sense gratification, that is perfection. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau. Hmm.

Hari-śauri:

tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair

ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat

mohitaṁ nābhijānāti

mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam

(BG 7.13)

"Deluded by the three modes (goodness, passion, and ignorance), the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible."

Prabhupāda: Here is the disease, material disease. They are being carried away by the three modes of material nature. Hmm? It is explained further that puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho bhuṅkte . . . (BG 13.22). Hmm?

Devotee (2): Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Guṇān. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya.

Devotee (3): Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, sad-asad-yoni . . .

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (3): Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya.

Prabhupāda: Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Hmm? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho 'pi (BG 13.22). So, this is a big purport about this? How big . . .?

Hari-śauri: About one page. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Read it.

Hari-śauri: "The whole world is enchanted by three modes of material nature. Those who are bewildered by these three modes cannot understand that transcendental to this material nature is the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. In this material world everyone is under the influence of these three guṇas and is thus bewildered."

"By nature living entities have particular types of body and particular types of psychic and biological activities accordingly. There are four classes of men functioning in the three material modes of nature. Those who are purely in the mode of goodness are called brahmins. Those who are purely in the mode of passion are called kṣatriyas. Those who are in the modes of both passion and ignorance are called vaiśyas. Those who are completely in ignorance are called śūdras. And those who are less than that are animals or animal life. However, these designations are not permanent. I may either be a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya or whatever—in any case, this life is temporary. But although life is temporary and we do not know what we are going to be in the next life, still, by the spell of this illusory energy, we consider ourselves in the light of this bodily conception of life, and we thus think that we are American, Indian, Russian or brāhmaṇa, Hindu, Muslim, etc. And if we become entangled with the modes of material nature, then we forget the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is behind all these modes. So Lord Kṛṣṇa says that men, deluded by these three modes of nature, do not understand that behind the material background is the Supreme Godhead."

"There are many different kinds of living entities—human beings, demigods, animals, etcetera—and each and every one of them is under the influence of material nature, and all of them have forgotten the transcendent Personality of Godhead. Those who are in the modes of passion and ignorance, and even those who are in the mode of goodness, cannot go beyond the impersonal Brahman conception of the Absolute Truth. They are bewildered before the Supreme Lord in His personal feature, which possesses all beauty, opulence, knowledge, strength, fame and renunciation. When even those who are in goodness cannot understand, what hope is there for those in passion and ignorance? Kṛṣṇa consciousness is transcendental to all these three modes of material nature, and those who are truly established in Kṛṣṇa consciousness are actually liberated."

Prabhupāda: This is explanation of that?

Devotee: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: I don't think in any other edition such explanation is there. (chuckles) Dr. Radhakrishnan, other, this Dada Krishna. Radhakrishnan and Dada Krishna. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam. Hmm. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, especially the Communist country. Completely in ignorance. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). They're thinking that by external adjustment, by following the Marx theory or Lenin's theory and killing the capitalists, inventing some bogus ways of happiness . . .

(pause)

Prabhupāda: You have been in Moscow?

Haṁsadūta: Hmm, several times.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. I think they are poor. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Very poor.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bhagatjī: Big country, very poor.

Hari-śauri: Moscow.

Bhagatjī: Moscow?

Haṁsadūta: In that city, one has to wait for years in order to get an apartment.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Haṁsadūta: In that city, if one wants to get an apartment, he has to wait for years.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Haṁsadūta: Yes, Anatol was telling me, that boy Ānanda-śānti. His whole family was living in that . . . but you did not see his room. His room is very small, maybe two times the size of your kitchen, and whole family was living in that. Mother, grandmother, father, him, and when Mandākinī went there she was also living there.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Haṁsadūta: Very small.

Prabhupāda: Pigeonhole.

Haṁsadūta: Pigeonhole, really pigeonhole.

Prabhupāda: So why this is?

Haṁsadūta: Only one room. Because there is no . . . economically they're . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: . . . not making progress. The situation is very bad. And all the buildings, if you noticed, they were very old.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already told . . .

Haṁsadūta: Did you notice? They were built in the time of Stalin.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Not Stalin.

Haṁsadūta: Or in the years before, sorry.

Prabhupāda: That is during the Czar. They could not build any.

Haṁsadūta: That university, very old, that university, and all the big buildings, very old. And like you said, there is no taxi.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: No food. The women are working like . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes sweeper.

Haṁsadūta: Sweeper, all fat . . .

Prabhupāda: Why they're fat?

Haṁsadūta: Just eating potatoes and . . . and . . .

Prabhupāda: Meat.

Haṁsadūta: Meat. Pork meat, pig's meat.

Prabhupāda: Very miserable condition.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: And advertising: Communists are so rich, so happy.

Haṁsadūta: I know, everything . . . all their literature concerns itself with struggling. Struggling against capitalists, struggling to . . .

Prabhupāda: And mass of people, they are very morose, unhappy.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: In the street you will see there is no happiness in their face.

Haṁsadūta: Silent.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Means terrorism. If they do anything against, then (snaps fingers) finished.

Hari-śauri: Subdued.

Prabhupāda: Very miserable.

Haṁsadūta: All these Communist countries are like that. I was in many of these countries. People are all depressed.

Prabhupāda: There is no taxi. You cannot get taxi on call. And the taxi drivers, they want something more.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, they . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Haṁsadūta: They do that.

Prabhupāda: Very bad country, the Communist country.

Haṁsadūta: I was asking this boy that was here a few days ago from South India, from Kerala—he was in Russia. I asked him. "What did you eat there? What did you . . . you stayed for one year?"

Prabhupāda: He must be eating meat.

Haṁsadūta: No, he said: "I was able to get frozen vegetables from the south of Russia. They freeze it and then they sell it," he said, "but it is very expensive, very costly." He was getting frozen.

Prabhupāda: That is also nasty. Frozen means nasty. I never take frozen. In the beginning I thought, "Oh, it is very nice. You can get fresh vegetable." But they are not at all fresh.

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: All rotten. Rather the same vegetable, as we have got in India practice, we dry it and keep it. That is tasteful. In season time—suppose this season there is huge quantity of vegetables—so here the system is they cut into pieces during the season and dry it in the sun and keep it. And during out of season it is soaked in water, it revives the old taste, then you can cook. Kyu hai na? (What do you say?)

Bhagatjī: Tastes as though it is different. The fresh vegetable the taste is very good.

Prabhupāda: Fresh vegetable must be, but still there is some taste. But this frozen, it has no taste.

Hari-śauri: No.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes gobhi . . . uska taste reh jata hai . . . (it retains some taste.) Even they have, Indians, those who are fish eaters, they keep this dry fish.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, dried fish.

Prabhupāda: They, fresh fish, they smear with turmeric and salt and keep it in the sunshine, and they dry it. And of course this fish, it has no . . . what is it, taste. (laughter) But they keep it. (aside) Give me little water. Kadaryo bhakhon kore nana yoni bhraman kore, tar janma dukhdaya. Ek jagah jo mila hai . . . (indistinct) . . . me, thoda organise kiya jaye, admi ko fresh vegetable, khane ka chiz mile aur maze se Bhagavan ka prasad paye aur Bhagavad-kirtan kare. Yehi hum chahte hai. Unko bahar ko jane ka koi zarurat nahi. (The living entity painfully takes birth in one species after another and consumes all kinds of nonsense items. Procure a small piece of land and organize everything nicely. If one can get fresh vegetables and takes prasādaṁ of the Lord happily along with chanting of the Lord's names . . . this is what I want. There is no need for anyone to go outside.) This I want to introduce: let them be satisfied whatever they can produce themselves locally. What is that—little cloth, little food? Anyone can produce these things. There is no difficulty at all. They must agree to this simple life. Otherwise, anywhere you can produce your own food and cloth and cottage. If possible you can construct big buildings. There is no need. And they should be satisfied, happy with Kṛṣṇa. Then life is successful. This I want to introduce now, anywhere. And it is practical. It is not something bogus. It is . . . we have already experimented. By God's grace we can produce everything from the lands, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. You can get everything. If they are satisfied with this simple life, then they save time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness and happy life. In India they don't require even cottage. One katiya (wooden cot) is sufficient, keeping in one place and lay down. Eight months, at least six months, it is very nice. At night, even in daytime it is very hot, night it is cool. So you have got very good sleep, soothing, then you become refreshed in the morning. If you have got good sleep at night, then you become refreshed, your health is regained. Hmm? Evacuate, take morning snāna and chāpāṭi. And during very hot season they don't take even chāpāṭi. They take some fruits, guava and this . . . what is called that? Kharbooza ko kya bolta hai? (What do they call Kharbooza?)

Devotee (2): That? Melon.

Prabhupāda: Melon, yes. During hot season you get watermelon, this other melon.

Hari-śauri: Honeydew melon.

Prabhupāda: Honeydew melon, oh, very nice. In the up-countries still in the village, during daytime they don't eat. And during daytime they take some fruits, and at night when it is cool, the cool, ah, the air, they make some chāpāṭi. One time, is it not?

Devotee (2): . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Eh, Raat me khate hai. (Eat at night) . . . in that night, because in daytime it is so hot, it is embarrassing to cook and to digest also. Better take food, ah, fruit, this melon, and at night they take three or four chāpāṭis according to the . . . and good sleep. Very happy life it was, all over India. There was no question of poverty. People did not know what is poverty, and now it is poverty. They do not get even sufficient food.

Hari-śauri: Industrialization.

Prabhupāda: Ugra-karma. I don't like industrialisation.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)