720604 - Conversation C - Mexico

Conversations by Date, 1972

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

720604R3-MEXICO CITY - June 04, 1972 - 16:43 Minutes

Prabhupāda: . . . quantity He stocked. pūrṇasya:

pūrṇam adaḥ pūrṇam idaṁ

pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate.

(Īśo Invocation)

Because water is necessity. Very, very much necessary. So water we require. So God has stocked water more than we require, because it is gradually drying up. Yes. Gradually the whole, whole water will be dried up, and there will be no water. And in that situation all living beings will die. Then the sunshine will be more, by heating, the temperature will increase, and then everything will be burned into ashes. Then again there will be water, torrents of water, so whole thing will be water only.

Pralaya-payodhi jale dhṛtavān asi vedam. There will be only water. This is the process of creation and dissolution. So, and now the water is being dried up. So there will be no water, and everything will be burned into ashes. Then there will be water. Again from water everything will come out again.

Śyāmasundara: So the animals, land animals come out of the water first. First, first there are water species, water animals . . .?

Prabhupāda: No, no, first is Kṛṣṇa.

Śyāmasundara: That, yeah. I mean the first . . .

Prabhupāda: These are the different processes. First is sky creation. Then air. From air, fire. From fire, water. From water, land. This is process of creation. Water, we require so much for creating these flowers. We require water. To keep a garden green you will spray water.

So water is so much necessary to grow food grains. Therefore water is the most, to take bath. Water is very much necessary. Therefore water is similar, a large quantity stock, and it is drying up. Is it not? Water is not drying up, gradually?

Devotee (2): Huh, I’ve been told, by people who claim to know . . .

Prabhupāda: Now I have been also . . .

Devotee (2): . . . that as much water as we have now, that we, as we always had. But then again they haven’t been here a long time, and they won’t be here in the future.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the process. We will find a beach, the sand means water has dried up. There was water. Otherwise, wherefrom the sand comes?

Devotee (2): Many, many hundreds of miles back from the California coast they find fish skeletons.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there was water. That is a fact. In the mountains, they find a skeleton. That means everything was covered with water.

(pause) And water comes from electricity.

Śyāmasundara: Ah. From where?

Prabhupāda: Electricity. You have heard, in the cloud there is electricity.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then cloud rains.

Śyāmasundara: Yeah. That's right.

Prabhupāda: And the electricity is generated by friction, air. Air.

Śyāmasundara: Cold air, hot air makes friction.

Prabhupāda: And then that friction, air. Air is generated from the sky. From the sky, ether.

Śyāmasundara: Ether.

Prabhupāda: And sky is created by sound. Śabda-brahma. That sound was God's sound. Let there be creation, that sound, immediately sky created. That is God's potency. He creates the sky by His words, sky will be sky.

(knocking at door) Yes. Yes.

Śyāmasundara: Come in.

(door opens and closes)

Śyāmasundara: Candrāvalī has brought you a heater, for tonight when it gets cold.

Man: I have one more question. Why did Kṛṣṇa create the universe?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Man: Why did Kṛṣṇa create the universe?

Prabhupāda: Because He is creator. God, He is known as creator. He is creating so many, He has created you also. You, you are also creating. You scientists, you are creating so many things. You have got the creative energy. The electrician is creating the electric fan, electric light, heater, electric, so many things. Electrician, that is nature. And God is the Supreme. He has the power to create, create, create. He is becoming many by creation. Many, when there is variety, many, that means creation.

So this is also one of His creations. When there was necessity of creation, therefore He has created. The necessity was that some of the living entities they wanted to enjoy. They did not want to serve Kṛṣṇa. So for them, enjoy here in this material world. So they are enjoying, begin from Brahmā, and then, then goes down to the germs of the stool. Different field of activities. Brahmā is acting throughout one universe, and the germs in the stool he is acting within the stool. Different field of activities. So Kṛṣṇa is giving everyone chance. All right, you act, as you desire to act like this, do it.

Just like a child wants to run on one automobile engine, so the father supplies him a toy and he, all right play with it. So child desired a toy like that, and the father created and gave him. Is that all right?

If you want the answer why father created a toy engine, the, already real engine is there, what is the use of creating another toy? Because the child wanted. This is the answer. There already things are there in the spiritual world. The enjoyer is the Supreme Lord, He is also there but some of His child wanted to imitate Him. All right, you take this. Just like we tried to imitate our father. He was worshiping Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa Deity, so I told him I want to do it. So he gave me Deity.

So father gives as the child desires, because he is affectionate. So persons who wanted to imitate Kṛṣṇa, to become enjoyer, they have been given this field, material world. All right, you enjoy here. Because in the spiritual world, the enjoyer is one. There cannot be two enjoyers. So, just like in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, institution, although we are many, the enjoyer is only one, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is Vaikuṇṭha. And where enjoyers are many, that is material world. That is the difference. Similarly, we are teaching here that you are not enjoyer, enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa.

If the people accept this theory, then it is Vaikuṇṭha. But that is not possible here in this material world. But those who have accepted that Kṛṣṇa is the enjoyer, they are not in this material world. They are in the spiritual world. Therefore they are liberated. Kṛṣṇa says also:

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa

bhakti-yogena sevate

sa guṇān samatītyaitān

brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

(BG 14.26)

Anyone who is offering, rendering unalloyed devotional service to Kṛṣṇa, he is already liberated. He has no other desire than to please Kṛṣṇa or to please the representative of Kṛṣṇa. One who has got only this desire he is liberated. He has no other desire for sense gratification. He is not doing anything with a motive. His only motive is how to please Kṛṣṇa through His representative. He is liberated. He is liberated. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate. Īhā yasya harer dāsye. Jīvan-muktaḥ sa ucyate (Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.187).

He is liberated even in this life. He hasn’t got to change, but change, changing this body, you do the same work. You do the same work. This is his apprenticeship. Just like apprentice, he is trying to, your assistant in the laboratory, when he becomes Professor he also do this, the, the, does the same thing, but more perfectly, and he knows how to do it. But when he is learning, it is the same thing.

Devotee: Practice.

Prabhupāda: Practice. Therefore the action is liberated, and one who is engaged in the action . . . just like, the same example, rod, when it is burning it is fire, it is no more rod. So by the action one is liberated or conditioned. By the action. When the action is liberated, then he is liberated. When the action is conditioned, then he is conditioned.

Śyāmasundara: So it's a matter of realization.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Śyāmasundara: Realizing it . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śyāmasundara: . . . practically.

Prabhupāda: Not realization, but actual action. Fact. Just like the rod, it is not the question of realization. The rod being red hot it is burning. It is burning. It is a fact. It is, it is burning, it is both experience and observation. That is scientific. Is it not? Observation and experiment?

So observation is that the rod has become red hot, and experience is that it is burning. It is scientific. If you call it fire, then it is scientific. Because the both things are there, observation and experiment. One thing minus will not be scientific.

(pause) All right . . . (indistinct) . . . from five, five, six?

Śyāmasundara: Fifteen minutes.

(exchange with other devotees)

Śyāmasundara: Another half hour, forty-five minutes. So we can stop and take our full . . .

Prabhupāda: . . . marking. Oh that's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa! That's all. (end)