771103 - Conversation F - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771103R6-VRNDAVAN - November 03, 1977 - 21:51 Minutes

(Conversation with Gaura-Govinda)

Prabhupāda: Oh, they come to Bombay by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They drive from Bombay to Hyder . . . I've also done that driving. Long trip—ten, eleven hours.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ten or eleven hours, I think. Long trip. Maybe even longer.

Prabhupāda: Why kīrtana stopped?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's just beginning again, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You like the kīrtana? For a few days we weren't having it.

Prabhupāda: Haṁsadūta was chanting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want him to chant again? Should he chant some more?

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I think the reason that you haven't been having much kīrtana the last two or three days is because Haṁsadūta and Bharadvāja were not here. Isn't that it? Hmm. Their kīrtana is very sweet. (break)

Prabhupāda: . . . Ratha-yātrā ceremony.

Gaura-Govinda: At Ratha-yātrā Jagannātha came very late for Pāṇḍu-vijaya. It was first time announced that it would take place at nine, but actually it took place at 4 p.m.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-Govinda: We heard that this year that new body . . . Jagannātha has a new body, so it was heard that that was not proper time. These pāṇḍās and some people, they were interested with this business purpose. They did so, and also these pāṇḍās were doing some nonsense inside the temple, so Jagannātha was very much displeased, so it took so much time.

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās untimely changed the body?

Gaura-Govinda: Untimely they changed. And it was the custom that King Purī-rāja, the king of Purī, would do cara-paraha(?) this cleaning. But they ill-treated the Purī-rāja. There was some incident previously. So Purī-rāja was not present at that time. He left Purī, and he was somewhere else. So cara-paraha(?) was being done by this baḍa pāṇḍā, baḍa pāṇḍā, pūjā-pāṇḍā. Such mismanagement was there.

Prabhupāda: Who was baḍa pāṇḍā?

Gaura-Govinda: There was one baḍa pāṇḍā. I don't know his name . . . (indistinct) . . . One who does offerings . . . (indistinct) . . . He is chief of those pāṇḍās. And then, when this pulling of car . . . That took place just a few minutes before sunset. And it was the custom that as soon as the sun set, there will be no pulling. Only Balarāma's car was pulled a few yards, dashed against a shop, and four of the wheels were broken. So then it stopped. For two days there was no pulling unless it is repaired. Then for two days car stopped there. So on the third day it was pulled, the cars were pulled to the Guṇḍicā. Such things happened this year. And we were the only party who chanted before ratha from 10 to 4.

Prabhupāda: Only party means?

Gaura-Govinda: We. Lokanātha Swami's party had arrived, and we are at Bhuvaneśvara, four, five devotees. We were there two days before at Purī, and we went there and we chanted and did kīrtana before the ratha from 10 to 4. And there were much crowd this year, so much crowd that this whole baḍa danda(?) was filled up. And above, the top of the roofs, the buildings, were all overfilled. The government people that were broadcasting of radio, they all took the photos and also they recorded our kīrtana. They announced in the radio also. This incident took place this year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We did not have these problems at our Ratha-yātrā, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Pañca-draviḍa: The crowds stayed for the third day, or they all left?

Gaura-Govinda: No, they left. Third day there was a thin crowd. They all left. That was the only day when all had come. They left. Fifty percent, seventy-five percent crowd left. Only twenty-five percent stayed.

Pañca-draviḍa: Was there any criticism?

Gaura-Govinda: Oh, many criticisms. Many criticisms. I also heard there was one custom that there are some specific persons, pāṇḍās, they would go out to all directions to search that wood, specific nim wood, from which the new body would be carved. There are some symptoms in the wood, that nim tree. They would find it out. And they'll go all directions. But this year they never gone anywhere. Last time from where they have picked up the trees, they went there, and without proper ceremony they cut down the trees and came. This was also criticism. They never followed this thing this year.

Prabhupāda: The pāṇḍās are doing . . .

Gaura-Govinda: They are doing all nonsense. These pāṇḍās are so wicked that all were afraid of them. These government people are all afraid of them. The administrator, temple administration, though he's government servant, he's all . . . they are all afraid of them.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gaura-Govinda: Because they are guṇḍās. And these government people, they get vote and come to the power, and these pāṇḍās, they are so powerful that if they will not listen to them, they will topple down their position. They have such apprehension. And publicly also they will create some persecution among them. They have such . . . That Sadasiva Rath Sarma? That time, Prabhupāda, when you were at Bhuvaneśvara, he came . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah, ha, ha.

Gaura-Govinda: He was telling that when he associated with us, those pāṇḍās told him that "Oh, you have taken some money from these ISKCON people. Therefore you are favoring them." He was criticized, and he was telling me that "Now these pāṇḍās are talking about me like this."

Prabhupāda: He's also a pāṇḍā?

Gaura-Govinda: No, he's not a pāṇḍā. He's one of these paṇḍitas of that Mukti-maṇḍapa paṇḍita. He's president. This time, while we were talking with Anantadeva, we said that "Sadasiva Rath Sarma is favoring us, and he gives favorable opinion." Anantadeva said, "No, no, no. Don't believe him. He's a rascal. He's the most greedy person. He wants much more money." Anantadeva gave this opinion about him.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda, dudh barley enechi. Uthe boshben ekhon? (Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have brought milk and barley. Will you kindly sit up now?) (break)

Prabhupāda: The sanctity of Jagannātha Purī—lost.

Bhavānanda: Is there any pain this side, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Any pain this side? (break)

Prabhupāda: Jagannātha Purī's sanctity they are killing. Thousands of years. Hmm? Gaura-Govinda?

Bhavānanda: Gaura-Govinda Swami?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes?

Prabhupāda: The sanctity is being . . .

Gaura-Govinda: Sanctity is lost now.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga. What is happening Jagannātha Svāmī?

Gaura-Govinda: Those pāṇḍās, they have developed these demoniac qualities ,and they are forbidding the real devotees to enter into the temple. That is also an offense.

Pañca-draviḍa: Even our devotees born in Hindu families they won't let into the temple.

Gaura-Govinda: What is that Hindu? So-called Hindu.

Pañca-draviḍa: So-called Hindu. Lokanātha Swami even. There is no reason even they should forbid him from going to the temple.

Prabhupāda: They are depressing to extract money.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: How many pāṇḍās are involved?

Gaura-Govinda: There are many pāṇḍās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many?

Gaura-Govinda: Hundreds.

Pañca-draviḍa: These paṇḍitas, Śrīla Prabhupāda . . . Five years ago I got permission to go into the temple and they let me in the gates, only the paṇḍitas blocked the door. They would not let us in. But we were allowed inside the temple gates and everything. It was only the one paṇḍita came and stopped us. (break)

Prabhupāda: Management is in the hands of government?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is the management in the hand of the government?

Gaura-Govinda: Yes, government. One administrator is there. He's government employee.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the government is being paid off by the pāṇḍās.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is Orissa government isn't it?

Gaura-Govinda: Hmm. Orissa government. Anantadeva said that government administrator wants money also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anantadeva said the government administrator also wants money. They're all in it together.

Gaura-Govinda: Yes . . . (indistinct) . . . said that Rath Sarma, he's favourable. He said, "No, he's the most loony person."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who?

Gaura-Govinda: That Sadasiva Rath Sarma, the president of the Mukti-maṇḍapa-saba(?). (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: The biggest paṇḍitas are all known meat-eaters also.

Gaura-Govinda: Ah, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They eat meat.

Gaura-Govinda: Meat, fish, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think, Prabhupāda, you mentioned in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that.

Gaura-Govinda: And they also take all sorts of intoxication, and they also go to the prostitute. Everything they do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How can they serve the Deity? Śrīla Prabhupāda, does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was proof, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That ratha-cakra broken.

Gaura-Govinda: Cakra broken. Yes. It was broken. It was going to be pulled on that very day actually.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: He resides everywhere. Jagannātha says, yatra tiṣṭhati mad-bhaktas tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada. Things are deteriorating. That I am lamenting. There is no . . . For thousands of years sanctity—they are killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there anything we can do about it?

Prabhupāda: Unless the administration comes to us.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we pray to Lord Jagannātha so that . . . (break)