770527 - Conversation C - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770527VG-VRNDAVAN - May 27, 1977 - 44:27 Minutes

(Śrīla Prabhupāda Vigil)

Prabhupāda: You haven't got to think over, "What shall I do now?" Never forget. So our first business is preaching. You should always remember. This is the education. These rascals, they have no father-mother—orphans. They may think as well-educated how to earn money. We have no such . . . we are rich man's son. Economic problem is already solved. That is already taken. Tal labhyate yad anyataḥ sukham. We don't care for all this so-called improvement. That is already settled up. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ (SB 1.5.18). Just see how to become a man of character like Nārada, Vyāsa. That is our goal. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovidaḥ. Not for any other. And what about your material problems? That is already taken. Tal labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukhaṁ kālena sarvatra gabhīra-raṁhasā. This is kṛṣṇa-bhakta. Don't care for maintaining this body. "What Kṛṣṇa will give, I take. If He does not give, don't mind." (hums) So discussing all this twenty-four hours, and death takes place. Death, it takes place, then where is the wrong? Where is the lamentation? There is nothing. You are not permanent. You have to die. But if you die discussing all these things, that is your glorious death. Death is sure. You cannot avoid it, today or tomorrow or hundred years after. But die a glorious death. Yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). That is wanted. It is not difficult. So I have called you for that purpose. So if death is to take place, let me die in your association and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is no harm. That is glorious. Now it is very important point, Nārada's qualification.

Rāmeśvara: Purport: "These are the necessary qualifications of a person . . ." (break)

Prabhupāda: This Nitāi, as soon as he mixed with some pseudo devotee, fell down. Rascal. He's searching after guru. And where is now?

Rāmeśvara: In America.

Prabhupāda: What does he do?

Rāmeśvara: Some karmī job to get money.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) And he's asking my blessings for a guru. He's a fanatic. (break) . . . know that story, punar muṣiko bhava? (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's a very suitable story for this case.

Prabhupāda: "Again become a mouse." That's all. "I made you tiger. Now you want to eat me? All right, you become again a mouse." (break) That is called dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination. Hmm. Go on. (break) Doesn't create any . . . that is bhakti life. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bās. So where is the difficulty? The things are already there. I have to repeat it only. Why shall I create, make hodgepodge everything? But that they do not know. Bhaktivedanta has no difficulty. The things are already there. Simply you have to present them as it is. That's all. You become Vaiṣṇava. Where is the difficulty? And as soon as you change, become over-intelligent, spoiled, everything spoiled. That is the . . . (recording grows very faint, then inaudible) (break) What arrangement is . . .? What arrangement is made? (break) And if they do not repeat, they fell down. You have to bring. You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Here Nārada Muni is blaming Vyāsadeva, "You have not repeated." And here is a scholar, and he has repeated. The actual position is repetition. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is the position. So we shall go on doing that. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Jaya. "Purport . . ." (break)

Prabhupāda: Ei sorir bhenge geche. Cholche konorokome. (My health has broken, somehow it is continuing.)

Indian man (1): Kripa ekhono ache. Sri Radha raman Sriman Mahaprabhu kripa kore apnar dirghayu din, bhalo swastho din. Amake ratri belay boelchilo, tarpor morme otyonto betha pelam, ar to kichu bol nai. Govinder nam, Gauranger nam . . . (indistinct) . . . Acyutananda prabhu naam uccharon korte laglen . . . (indistinct) . . . daurbalya hoye geche beshi? (Mercy is still there. May Sri Radha-Ramana and Sriman Mahāprabhu bestow Their blessings, may they make your long life and give you good health. I was told at night, hearing that I felt pain at heart, I have nothing more to say. The name of Govinda, name of Gauranga . . . (indistinct) . . . Acyutananda prabhu started to utter names . . . (indistinct) . . . you became very weak?)

Prabhupāda: Ei sorir kharap hoye geche . . . (My health has broken down . . .) They are now taking prasādam? Give them prasādam.

Indian man (1): (indistinct) . . . Sokoler netro asrupurno hoe geche. (Everyone's eyes were filled with tears.)

Prabhupāda: Vrindavane ese gechi, ekhon bachle bhalo morleu bhalo. (I have reached Vṛndāvana, now living or dying both are good.)

Indian Man (1): Na morte to parben na. Apni to omor hoe gechen. Ananta netre, ananta konthe, ananta prane apnar kotha cholche, eto sombhob noy . . . kintu ei sorir boro . . . (No you cannot die. You have become deathless. Infinite eyes, infinite voice, infinite hearts are glorifying you. This (death) is not possible . . . but this body is much . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bhagavan Hinduo noy, musalmano noy, khristano noy. (The Lord is not Hindu, He is not Muslim, nor even Christian.)

Indian Man (1): Amra Radha-Ramaner nirdeshe tulasi archar bebostha korbo, gopal mantre. (With the order of Radha-Ramana we will offer tulasī arcana, in a goal mantra.)

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Indian Man (1): Govinda kripa kore apnake somosto bishwa jure . . . (Govinda being merciful will give you everything . . .)

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says . . . you understand English?

Indian man (2): No.

Prabhupāda: "I am the owner of all planets." Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29).

Indian Man (1): Apnar bolte kosto hoy na. (Don’t you feel pain while talking?)

Prabhupāda: Na, eisob bolte kosto hoy na. (No, I do not feel pain while talking about such a topic.)

Indian man (2): Kalke amake bollen je apni Haridwar hrishikesh e gechen. (I was said yesterday that you went to Haridwar, Hrishikesh.)

Prabhupāda: Gechilam, beshi subidha holona. (I went. But it was not very helpful.)

Indian Man (1): Na, eikhane bhalo. (No, this place is better.) Treatment?

Prabhupāda: Treatment ei. (This is the only treatment.) They are always reading Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Indian Man: Aito sorbopori treatment, er che ar boro kichu nei. (This is the topmost treatment. There is nothing higher than this.)

Indian man (2): Reciting nāma-saṅkīrtana. They are doing all the best and most proper thing.

Prabhupāda: Eita ei jogote khub . . . (This in this world is very much . . .) And Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes?

Prabhupāda: Where is that magistrate's . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The one from London?

Prabhupāda: Yes. How the magistrate has . . . we are getting good judgment in so many big, big cases.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The London one we won.

Prabhupāda: We have owned one case, very important case, in the Supreme Court of New York. I have translated into Hindi.

Indian man (1): The case has been decided in your favor.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian man (1): Yes, that he told me and he . . .

Prabhupāda: No, I, by . . . A very learned judge has translated it. Because there are so many technical . . . And the Indians . . .

Indian man (3): Amar deshe boro bibad, kintu ekti okhando achintya satya ei somoy ei yuge sorbopori guru-ajna. Je mane na mane. Tar bani na manleu tar chokh tar pran chitkar ekdin swikar korbe je . . . (indistinct) . . . (We have a lot of quarrels, intolerance—but one unchallenged, inconceivable truth is that in the current time—the order of the spiritual master ought to be top. Someone may or may not accept. His words, his eyes one day will admit loudly that . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Okhane Indian ra tai bolche. (The Indians are saying the same there.)

Indian man (3): He is the greatest guru of the age.

Devotees: Jaya!

Ātreya Ṛṣi: In Iran, in the courts, the prince and the princess are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, in the court, in the palace.

Indian man (3): Śrī Gaurāṅga's incarnation on his tongue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have both—that one from London and New York.

Prabhupāda: That London is shorter.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: London is a lot shorter. This happened in London, England. It says, "Next morning in the court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us." This is . . . "Our men were doing nagara-saṅkīrtana, so some constable, police officer, said that 'You are blocking the footpath with your nagara-saṅkīrtana, and I must arrest you.' " So they were taken to court. "The next morning in court we pleaded not guilty to the charges laid against us. The judge, therefore, deferred our case to a later time, the 2nd of February at two p.m. It was not until the day before the hearing that we realized the actual significance of the appointment. The second day of February was the appearance day of Lord Nityānanda Prabhu. After ending a morning of fasting and chanting with a blissful ārati and splendid prasāda, we set off for the great Marlborough Street magistrate's court in a confident mood, sure that Lord Nityānanda would protect us. We were accompanied by a new and enthusiastic visitor to the temple, the Reverend Norman Morehouse, second only to the Bishop of Norwich, who came to observe the proceedings."

Prabhupāda: He's our great friend.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man is very big man in Christian church. He's a very good friend of ours.

Prabhupāda: He's very big man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came with us to the court.

Prabhupāda: Impressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We arrived at the courthouse and waited in the big hallway while the Reverend went through to the public gallery. The plainclothesman who arrested us soon turned up, now dressed in uniform. It took a little persuasion before they cautiously took some of Lord Nityānanda's prasāda in the form of cookies while we waited for our case to turn up." The devotees brought prasādam with them to the courtroom and were distributing. "A stir went . . . At last we were beckoned into the courthouse itself and ushered into the dock. A stir went around the assembly in the court. Shaven heads and saffron robes were the last thing anyone expected to see in Her Majesty's court on a Tuesday afternoon. The magistrate, a balding, portly man in his late middle age, a red nose in his dank grey suit, surveyed us over the top of his gold-rimmed spectacles. We affirmed our plea of not guilty to the clerk of the court, and one of the constables, who was sworn in at the witness box, proceeded to report the supposed conditions of our arrest. The actual number of the chanting nagara-saṅkīrtana party miraculously grew from the original five first of all to seven when he started his account, and later to eight persons when he described how three devotees ran off and escaped arrest. According to his description, it seemed that many more people had been using Oxford Street than we had been aware of. Indeed, unlimited numbers of pedestrians had been obstructed and forced into the road at the grave risk of being run over by the almost nonexistent traffic. The judge listened impartially and then, since we had no advocate to speak on our behalf, he asked us if we would like to cross-examine the evidence of the policeman. When we humbly pointed out that the constable, like everyone else, had imperfect senses, that he had contradicted himself in assessing the actual number of devotees, the judge politely suggested that it was a mathematical error. A titter of laughter rippled around the courtroom at his remark, while the police constable shuffled his feet and looked embarrassed.

We were asked if we ourselves would like to speak for our defense, so having been previously chosen as a spokesman, I volunteered to be sworn in at the witness box. Surprised when the usher asked me to hold a copy of Bhagavad-gītā in my right hand, I read out the words of the card presented before me." He didn't swear on the Bible; he swore on the Bhagavad-gītā. " 'I swear by almighty Śrī Kṛṣṇa that the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.' Encouraged by smiles from the devotees in the dock, I began to describe the circumstances of our arrest, this time as they actually had happened. The magistrate listened as I went on to say, 'We understand that the police have a duty to perform, sir, but we also have a duty. We have been instructed by our spiritual master. Indeed, we are instructed by all the principal scriptures of the world—the Koran, the Toraḥ, the Bible, and in the Vedas—that we should glorify God by chanting His holy names. Whether you know the Lord by the name of Allah, Jehovah, Rāma, Govinda or Kṛṣṇa, God is one.' 'Oh, quite so, quite so,' affirmed the magistrate. Encouraged, I went on. 'It is said in the Vedic scriptures, in the Bṛhad Nāradīya Purāṇa, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21).' 'In English. What does it mean in English?' the magistrate asked. 'Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. This is written in the Sanskrit language five thousand years ago. It means, "In the age of Kali, the present age of materialism and quarrel, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative for making positive spiritual advancement but the chanting of the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord." ' The judge, in fact the whole courtroom, sat there fascinated. I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction . . ."

Prabhupāda: (aside) Bring some fruits.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction to the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and I began to speak further. 'Although mankind has made great material advancement in so many spheres, we can factually say that there is a fault in the social body at large. People are not happy with their day-to-day activities, and there is an increasing disturbance of drug addiction, prostitution, violence and crime. The root of the problem is lack of God consciousness. People are unaware of the actual purpose of life.' The judge, intrigued by this sound philosophy coming from the witness box, relaxed his judicial appearance, sat back, and took a sip of water from his glass. Encouraged, I asked, 'Your honor, with your permission I would like to read a short passage which appeared in the London Observer in October, 1972. It is an excerpt from an article written by the eminent English historian Sir Arnold Toynbee. "The cause of it, the world's malady, is spiritual. We are suffering from having sold our souls to the pursuit of an objective which is both spiritually wrong and practically unattainable. We have to reconsider our objective and change it, and until we do this, we shall not have peace either amongst ourselves or within each of us." ' " Then the devotee continued. " 'As devotees of the Lord, we strictly follow four principles, cultivating the qualities of human life: mercifulness, truthfulness, cleanliness and austerity. The absence of these qualities means the degradation of society. So the spreading of spiritual understanding amongst humanity at large is the highest welfare work, and an essential part of this program is the distribution of literature and the congregational chanting in the street of the holy names of God.' 'Is that all?' inquired the judge. 'Yes, sir,' was the reply. 'Then you may step down,' he instructed. Adjusting his spectacles and regarding the devotees, who were once more assembled in the dock, he said in a very firm yet amicable manner, 'In legal terms you are guilty of obstruction, although it is of a very minor degree. Taking this into consideration, and because of your obvious sincerity, I have decided to dismiss the case.' We smiled jubilantly and, thanking the magistrate, were about to step down when Kṛṣṇa prompted me to say, 'Sir, we were wondering if you had a court library here, . . .

Devotee: Wow!

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: . . . in which case we would like to present a book for addition to the collection.' 'Thank you,' replied the judge. 'I am quite sure we can accommodate it.' Giving a copy of Śrīla Prabhupāda's Śrī Īśopaniṣad to one of the clerks, who promised to pass it on to the judge, we left the courtroom, thanking Lord Nityānanda for His mercy." Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda

Indian man (1): Wah! iska Hindi translation kardo bada logo ke liye . . . (indistinct) . . . (Wow! Please translate this in Hindi, very useful for people . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian man (2): Bada hi natakiya rupa se likha gaya hai. (Written very dramatically.)

Devotee: Hmm . . .

Prabhupāda: And that judgment is still in order.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This was written by one Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa brahmacārī. Named Sākṣī Gopāla dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Accha? (Okay?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's one of Prabhupāda's English disciples.

Indian man (2): Usi mein aapne kya sundara likha hai ki vo hamare upar Brainwashing ka charge lagatein hai. Unhe Brain to hm hi de rahe hai. Jab Brain hi nahi hai to Brainwashing kaha se? (What a beautiful thing Your Divine Grace has written that they are putting allegations about brainwashing about us. We are giving them the brain. When there is no brain then where is the brainwashing?) . . .

Indian man (2): (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Hm toh unako bolte hai tumhara Brain kaha hai, . . . (everyone laughs) . . . pehle Brain to dikhao phir wash karenge (We tell them where your brain is . . . (everyone laughs) . . . first show your brain and then we will wash it.) (everyone laughs)

Indian man (3): Govinda kripa karenge aap svastha ho jayenge. Sri Radha Govinda ji ki kripa se . . . (indistinct) . . . (Govinda will bless you. You will get well by the mercy of Sri Radha Govinda ji . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Apnara sob ashirvad korlei hobe. (If you all bless me then it will be.)

Indian man (3): Haan. (Yes.)

Indian man (3): Yeh Radha Raman ji ka prasada. Jab aap purna svastha ho jaye to ek din Sri Radha Raman ji ke darshan karne padhare. (This is the food remnants of Radha Raman ji. When you become completely healthy, then one day come to greet Deities of Sri Radha Raman.)

Prabhupāda: Jarur jayenge, jarur jayenge aur Radha Raman ka prasada payenge. Meri to bahut din se iccha hai. (I will definitely go, will definitely go and will honor the food remnants of Radha Raman. I have a desire from a long time.)

Indian man (3): Thoda Radha Raman ji ka vishesh punya prasada hm kal yaha bhej dein? (Should we send some special food remnants of Radha Raman here tomorrow?)

Prabhupāda: Nahi udhar hi jake khaenge. (No, I will honor the food remnants only there.)

Indian man (3): Accha, toh yaha bhej de thoda? (Okay, so can I send some here?)

Prabhupāda: Nahi udhar jake khaenge. (No, I will honor the food remnants only there.)

Indian man (3): Accha, thik. (Well, okay.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi toh khaenge. (Otherwise I will not honor.)

Indian man (3): Ācchā . . . (everyone laughs) . . . thik hai, wah! (Okay . . . (everyone laughs) . . . okay, wow.)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya . . .

Prabhupāda: Mai toh Keshi Ghat pe jab thaehra tha . . . (When I was staying at Kesi Ghat . . .)

Indian man (3): Haan. (Okay.)

Prabhupāda: Rojana jata tha. (I used to go everyday.)

Indian man (3): Wah! (Wow!)

Indian man (3): Govinda kripa, Krishna kripa . . . in dono ko dijiye . . . (indistinct) . . . (Govinda's mercy, Kṛṣṇa's mercy . . . give both of them . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Hmm dono ko. (Yes both of them.)

Indian man (3): . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Indian man (2): . . . ācchā. (. . . okay.)

Indian man (3): Vaise kuch improvement hai. (Well there is some improvement.) You will be alright in due course of time. Aap . . . confident . . . (You Divine Grace . . . confident . . .)

Prabhupāda: No, I am confident when I am in Vṛndāvana I'm all right.

Indian man (3): Ek baat aur hai na aur log toh apna-apna prarabdha bhog karte hai. Aapke upar toh hajaro ka prarabdha hai. (There is one more thing—other people suffer their own karma, thousands of people's karma are on you.) So many people committing crimes, they are doing sins. They have got their own fortunes. And you are affected by all that. Therefore you are . . . Sabake prarabdha ka pariskar ho jayega aapki kripa se . . . (indistinct) . . . (Everyone's karma will be refined by Your Divine Grace . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian man (3): Yaha ke liye aapne kisko adhikrita niyukta kiya hai? (Whom have you appointed as manager here?)

Prabhupāda: Haan? (Yes?)

Indian man (3): Is Vṛndāvana paristhana ke liye. (For this Vṛndāvana area.)

Prabhupāda: Nahi yeh saba bahar se hi aaye hai. (No, they all came from outside.)

Indian man (3): Nahi, nahi yaha ke sthana ki vyavastha ke liye. (sthayi bebostha kichu. . .) (No, no—for the management of the place here.)) (Is there any permanent arrangement?)

Prabhupāda: Sthayi bebostha ache to. (There is a permanent arrangement.)

Indian man (3): . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: GBC—Governing Body Commission.

Indian man (3): . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Bombay to aapne ek baar dekha hai kya? (Have you seen the Bombay temple once?)

Indian man (3): Ban raha tha . . . (indistinct) . . . haan, ab mai jaa raha hun. (Was under construction . . . (indistinct) . . . yes, I am going there now.)

Prabhupāda: Bahut . . . (Grand . . .)

Indian man (3): Haan . . . (Yes . . .)

Prabhupāda: Aisa Temple Bombay mein kahin nahi hai. (There is no such temple anywhere in Bombay.)

Indian man (3): Mai 11 June ko ja raha hun. (I am going on June 11.)

Prabhupāda: Accha to kripa karke . . . (Okay Your Grace, please . . .)

Indian man (3): Haan . . . (Yes . . .)

Prabhupāda: You just receive him very well.

Indian man (2): Yeh Bombay Temple ke . . . (indistinct) . . . (He is . . . (indistinct) . . . of Bombay Temple.)

Indian man (3): Kaun? (Who?)

Indian man (2): Giriraja.

Prabhupāda: He is the president.

Indian man (3): (to Girirāja) I am coming on 11th June, so some day by will of the Supreme, I will be there.

Girirāja: You can stay with us if you like.

Indian man (3): Vo jo . . . (indistinct) . . . program hai. (That . . . (indistinct) . . . program.) program I will come. (pause)

Prabhupāda: He is useless, tell.

Indian man (1): Hamane inse kaha hai ki angrezi mein Maharaja ke jivana charitra ke kuch points hamko de. Hm apne hindi vishaya mein life sketch Maharaja ka likhenge. (I have asked him to give us some points of Mahārāja's biography in English. We will write a life sketch of Mahārāja's life in our Hindi text.)

Prabhupāda: Whole thing. We have no hope for . . .

Indian man (2): . . . (indistinct) . . . some points . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Whole thing. We have no hope for . . .

Indian man (1): I have asked this boy . . .

Prabhupāda: Haan? . . . (Yes? . . .)

Indian man (1): . . . to give me some necessary points about your life.

Indian man (2): Biography.

Indian man (1): Biography. He's my brother-in-law.

Bhavānanda: Last year, when you came to Māyāpur . . . this is the model of the mandira we're going to build.

Indian man (3): Māyāpur? . . .

Bhavānanda: At Māyāpur . . .

Indian man (3): . . . Navadvīpa?

Bhavānanda: You were there last year?

Indian man (3): I have been there . . .

Bhavānanda: Haan . . . (Yes . . .)

Indian man (3): . . . for three or four days in temple block.

Indian man (3): Wow! Adhabhuta. (Wow! Amazing.)

Indian man (2): Vishwa mein sabse bada hoga. (It will be the largest in the world.)

Indian man (3): Haan, haan . . . (Yes, yes . . .)

Indian man (3): He's M.A. from Oxford . . .

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Indian man (3): . . . New Zealand . . .

Prabhupāda: (laughed warmly)

Indian man (3): Or he was the chief editor of Sarasvatī and Bhārata Daily paper.

Prabhupāda: Sarasvatī, Bhārata Daily . . . (indistinct Hindi)

(everyone speaking together) In Allahabad in Allahabad . . . (indistinct) . . . Allahabad

Indian man (3): In Allahabad. He's here from Allahabad.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Indian man (3): And . . .

Prabhupāda: (aside) So you just take his address and go and see him. He'll help you.

Girirāja: Yes.

(Prabhupāda coughs)

Prabhupāda: Allahabad mein monotype ka bandobasta . . . (indistinct) . . . to hm logon ko thoda bandobasta karava dijiye. (Arrangement of monotype in Allahabad . . . (indistinct) . . . get some arrangement done for us.)

Indian man (2): Jo aap seva kahenge vo unko boliye aur . . . (Any service your Divine Grace wants to tell him and . . .)

Prabhupāda: Take his address immediately.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Yes," what means? You take now his address. Hmm Sarasvati to Allahabad ka hi paper hai. (Hmm, Sarasvati is the only paper of Allahabad.)

(Indian man (2) indistinct whispering.)

Indian man (2): Haan . . . (Yes . . .)

Prabhupāda: . . . It was started by some woman?

Indian man (2): In 1908 . . .

Prabhupāda: Ah . . .

Indian man (2): . . . Unko . . . (indistinct) . . . (She . . . (indistinct) . . .) monthly paid . . .

Indian man (3): She was monthly paid chief editor . . .

Prabhupāda: Yah bada famous bhi hai. (It is also very famous.)

Indian man (3): And he had been one of the chief editors . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm . . .

Indian man (3): . . . and he . . .

Prabhupāda: Office kaha hai abhi? (Where is the office now?)

Indian man (2): Colonel Gaines.

Prabhupāda: Haan? . . . (Yes? . . .)

Indian man (3): Colonel Gaines.

Prabhupāda: Oh, mai bhi . . . (indistinct) . . . jata tha. (Oh, I . . . (indistinct) . . . to go.)

Indian man (2): Accha, haan, haan. (Okay. Yes, yes.)

Indian man (3): Aapme koi pragada shraddha hai . . . (In you have a strong faith . . .)

Prabhupāda: Haan? . . . (Yes? . . .)

Indian man (3): Darshan karne ke liye to malum hua to aapke darshan karvane . . . (To take your darśana, so as I got to know I took him with me to take your darśana . . .)

Prabhupāda: Haan bahut meharbani. (Yes very kind of you.) . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Vidvana hai . . . (Is a scholar . . .)

Indian man (3): Vidvana . . . (Scholar . . .)

Prabhupāda: . . . (pause) Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate (sanskrit verse) . . . (everyone laughs) . . . Sva-deśe pūjyate rāja-vidvān sarvatra pūjyate (sanskrit verse).

Indian man (2): Radharamaner sannidhye ei prarthana kori. (We pray this to Radha Ramana.)

Prabhupada: Apnader iccha holei hobe. (If you so desire it will happen.)

Indian man (Indian man 3): . . . (indistinct Bengali)

Prabhupāda: . . . (break) Because in India, I can understand, there is an undercurrent. Is it not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Undercurrent is the right word.

Prabhupāda: Just now everything is going on, but after my demise it may be taken away from your hand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Phew! You understood that from this discussion here with this man?

Prabhupāda: I understood it long ago. It has been stayed, Bombay, Vṛndāvana. So how you are going to guard yourself? That is the problem.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I . . . your order that we form . . . it be a trust property with lifetime trustees . . .

Prabhupāda: So now you are all here. Very cautiously and everything agree.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will protect it. At least the property will be protected.

Prabhupāda: You should be very much determined, strong-minded. Otherwise it will slip. Such huge property . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually these properties are the envy of all of India. They're the best properties in each place.

Prabhupāda: Not only property. Our prestige, our position . . . everything is envied. Everywhere we are first class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. There's no rival.

Bhavānanda: There will be men, I know. There will be men who will want to try and pose themselves as guru.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was going on many years ago. Your Godbrothers were thinking like that. Mādhava Mahārāja.

Bhavānanda: Oh, yes. Oh, ready to jump.

Prabhupāda: Very strong management required, and vigilant observation. (indistinct background whispering, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa and Bhavānanda) So you are foreign . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Beg your pardon?

Prabhupāda: You are foreign trained up. And you also have idea how to protect our interest.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'm always . . .

Prabhupāda: There is very great undercurrent.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I never trusted them much. I know those things. (indistinct background whispering, Bhavānanda)

Prabhupāda: Make it . . . (end)