770405 - Conversation C - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Listen to a 'Nectar Drop' created from this Conversation

770405R3-BOMBAY - April 05, 1977 - 59:36 Minutes

Prabhupāda: Heh? Dictionary? Harvard Original Series.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Oriental Series.

Prabhupāda: Oriental Series.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Vedic Concordance. All the ślokas of Veda are listed according to alphabetical order of reference, and it is mentioned where they are occurring.

Prabhupāda: Find out janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).

Indian man (2): It is in the indexes. It is according to alphabetically arranged.

Prabhupāda: They have so much respect for Sanskrit language.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, there are about ten, fifteen volumes of it like this. Sanskrit dictionary.

Prabhupāda: That means they have got respect.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, they are learning from it actually. They are doing all the research and everything.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I read in the paper there is going to be a world Sanskrit meeting in Paris soon.

Prabhupāda: Our books are selling due to the Sanskrit scholarship.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yes, Sanskrit scholarship.

Prabhupāda: Word-to-word meaning.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It doesn't appear to be in alphabetical order. I mean, look.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: This is I, so you have to go to J.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well it's not in alphabetical order.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, it is according to Sanskrit order.

Indian man (2): It will be later than that.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Can you find it?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the Hindi Bhāgavatam has been very appreciated, after the lamination that plastic coating we have put, it looks better. Actually the presentation is even better than the Spanish Bhāgavatams. I got some new, even improved binding, bound books today. I'll send them to you tonight or tomorrow. They look very first class. I am sending Prem Yogi back to Vṛndāvana tomorrow, because First Canto, Part Two, is almost composed. So it requires to be proofread before I bring it to Bombay for printing. So the work is just being delayed. And also there is just one week's work left on First Canto, Part Three. So I told him to go back to Vṛndāvana for two weeks, and if you go to Srinagar, I promised him I would send him to Srinagar, because he wants to go to a cold climate. Then after that . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. If I go I will call him.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. So this way he was encouraged, because he wants . . .

Prabhupāda: There was another place, Solan.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Solan, yes. It is near Shimla.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Somebody wanted to give us that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Near Chandigarh.

Prabhupāda: So why not take that place?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Our only problem was we didn't have men to keep there on a permanent basis.

Prabhupāda: If he wants, he can go.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a good idea. I can meet them in Delhi. I know those people.

Prabhupāda: Then do that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I met that svāmī who wanted to give . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not speak.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he writes.

Prabhupāda: So let us occupy that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: And now that Trivikrama Swami is operating in Punjab with his party, it is good, because he can go there sometimes also.

Prabhupāda: So take that place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, now we will take it. It's a very good idea. So it is okay if we send him back. I want to get the First Canto, Part Two . . .

Prabhupāda: And as soon as we go to Srinagar I shall call.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Very good.

Prabhupāda: From Delhi to Srinagar . . .

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not far. This evening Girirāja and myself saw Jaya Prakash Narayan in his hospital. I gave him your Hindi Bhāgavatam and Kṛṣṇa Conscious Cultural Movement and your Gītā Girirāja gave. He liked it very much. He inquired how much Bhāgavatam you have translated. He inquired where our temple is. We said Juhu. He said he would come here. Of course, he is very, very sick. And I asked him for an appointment that we could come and show him our movie. And he has agreed to even see our movie. So in one or two days we will show him the movie in the morning. And in the evening there were hundreds of people, so we only saw him for three or four minutes. He has agreed to see us again. And he wants to meet you, he said. So when he is okay he will come to see you.

Prabhupāda: Girirāja said that the Prime Minister also.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that's Morarji Desai. That Ratan Singh Rajda had said that. Morarji Desai told Ratan Singh Rajda. Jaya Prakash Narayan is the most important man in the country now. He is like Mahatma Gandhi.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: He is Mahatma Gandhi's second man, father of the nation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw him just now, Girirāja and myself. He was very favorable, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and we showed him your books.

Prabhupāda: He knows about our movement?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I asked him first thing if he has heard. He said yes. And we gave him a copy of that Kṛṣṇa Consciousness is Genuine Indian Culture, which shows all our cultural activities; your Gītā. He said this booklet is very expensive, but we said we shall like you to read it. And we mentioned that your desire is that the leaders of this country become God conscious and then everybody else will become God conscious. And I gave example of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. He looked quite spiritual to us. He was very friendly. I was amazed that a man who has such . . .

Prabhupāda: He is practical also indoubtedly. He has no selfish motives.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No self-motives.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is very sick, so he said: "Now this is with me for the rest of my life unless some spiritual sādhu does some magic." So I could see that he is, because of this illness, he has probably become more spiritual now, which is also Kṛṣṇa's arrangement.

Prabhupāda:

catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ

sukṛtino 'rjuna

ārto arthārthī jijñāsur

jñānī ca bharatarṣabha

(BG 7.16)

When one is distressed, ārtaḥ, if he is pious then he comes to Kṛṣṇa. If he is pious. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Those who are not pious, they will never come.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So our goal is next time we'll see him again, show him the movie, and then try and get a letter of introduction from him to Morarji Desai and the Home Minister, because if he gives a letter, then nobody will say no to anything.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Morarji Desai has already said that he wants to see Prabhupāda.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, or the Home Minister.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Everybody will come now.

Prabhupāda: If Morarji Desai comes, others will do.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's good.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: And because of the Russian order and American work, he will be also very much pleased. Everybody was clapping at that paṇḍāl on Sunday. When Girirāja read about the order, the whole audience started clapping. Then Russia is defeated by purchasing the books. It is the final thing. He doesn't require any special recommendation.

Indian man (2): Srila Prabhupad, ete sudhu Beder sloke ache, Bahgavater sloke nei. (Śrīla Prabhupāda, only the Vedic ślokas are here, not Bhāgavata.)

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Oh. . . even Upaniṣad is also not there?

Indian man (2): No.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Only pure Vedas are there.

Indian man (2): Hum, sudhu only Atharva, Ṛg . . . (indistinct) . . . sāmaveda . . . Ṛg, Sāma, Yajur, Atharva. (Hmm, only Atharva, Ṛg . . . (indistinct) . . . sāmaveda . . . Ṛg, Sāma, Yajur, Atharva.)

Prabhupāda: Only Veda. Only the students for four Vedas.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, if it is a school, I can give it here in the library for research, because this will be a useful thing. They are not easily available. It was published in '64. Originally it was published in 1906. After sixty years they are brought out the cheaper copy, cheaper edition by American collaboration. America has given the money. Therefore it is only costing forty rupees.

Girirāja: Are those printed here?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Printed here. Banarsidass, Lucknow or Kanpur. These are the Motilal Banarsidass—Delhi, Varanasi and Patna. And money was given by America.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We read in the papers today that there is talk that Sanjay Gandhi and his mother may run from the country, because the government has launched many investigations into the malpractices of Sanjay Gandhi. So the government has ordered the security on all the borders to be very tight.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the airports now, they are making special security, especially to check any politicians who might try to escape the country, due to being investigated.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Their passports are also taken away. That's what I have heard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were, in themselves, the most exalted, and now they are treated as criminals.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In the Times of India you saw that starlight or side light or something, about Indira Gandhi. In today's paper, Indira Gandhi had gone to attend the function at one of the African embassies. She went with her daughter-in-law, and nobody even noticed her. Only fifteen minutes after she left the function did the host realize that Indira Gandhi had come. I mean, she went to a party, she stayed there and she left, and the host did not know that, "Indira Gandhi is here." It shows how material nature changes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It also shows that actually she had no value, because one who is actually great doesn't lose his value simply by losing an election.

Prabhupāda: Vidvān sarvatra pūjyate. Vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca naiva tulyaṁ kadācana. She is not a learned man. She occupied the royal seat. That honor was so long there, the royal seat. And who will honor her?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Her rule was "Might makes right."

Prabhupāda: And anyone who is vidvān, then that will be honored everywhere.

vidvatāṁ ca nṛpatyāṁ ca

naiva tulyaṁ kadācana

sva-deśe pūjyate rājan

vidvān sarvatra pūjyate

Sarvatra means everywhere, without any condition. Just see how she is suffering now mental agony.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Her son has started growing a beard now also, to hide. He had to . . . he has grown a beard now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why?

Indian man (2): To hide from people.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Probably not to be identified easily.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Disguise.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It came in the papers that the government was giving contracts to his son's businesses, and he was taking commission and keeping them in foreign banks. And they were giving contracts to her son's businesses at a higher rate than the market. There was open tender, and even though his rates were higher, he was still getting the contracts. And he was getting 21% commission from these companies and keeping them abroad. So it just shows how corrupt these leaders are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thieves.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, they have taken hundred crores of rupees from State Bank of India.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sixty lakhs.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, hundred crores in one day after election. Hundred crores of rupees taken from State Bank, and there is a big inquiry about that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: After which? This election?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yes, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hundred crores!

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Congress Party has taken out.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Withdrawn from the bank.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: State Bank, the biggest bank in India.

Indian man (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: How State Bank gave them?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: That is a whole new inquiry. Last time it was fifty-six. It is the talk of the town actually. It comes in paper now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It has come in papers?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yes. There are so many separate . . . not the Times of India, not the Express. I'll get you the cutting. I'll get it. Everything is coming out.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They had lakhs money or something in the bank.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: So they had collected money for the election purpose. They have put in the State Bank for Congress money under some account.

Prabhupāda: They credited the account?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yes.

Prabhupāda: State Bank has not given out of . . .?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No.

Prabhupāda: What money they have taken?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their own money. Of course, "their own" means . . .

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, only they collected from this Mohatlal and . . . (indistinct) . . . and other people.

Prabhupāda: Whatever that State Bank kept that money and gave that. So there is no fault of the State Bank. State Bank has no fault.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, but they can't give so much money in one day to the party. Particularly after the election debacle. That money will go out of India and transfer into foreign funds. Because there are all brokers here. Suppose you have got hundred rupees. You can exchange pounds and get it in London. Anybody can do it. So this money was used for that purpose. If it was known that elections are lost and this money will not be utilized in India, they would not have given.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: America gave a lot of money to the Congress Party, because Sanjay Gandhi was very friendly with America, with agent of many American companies.

Prabhupāda: The America was against Indira?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In the last one year they had changed, because of Sanjay. One good thing about Sanjay Gandhi was he was completely anti-Communist. He was pro-American and pro cap-free society. So India's relation with Russia was getting loose and with America was getting tight, because of Sanjay Gandhi. So that was one good thing. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). What is the goal of life, they do not know. Svārtha-gatim. Everyone says: "I must see first of all my self-interest." But he does not know what is self-interest. That is not unnatural. If I say that, "I must see first of all myself," you cannot blame, because everyone does that. But you must know what is your svārtha-gatim. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum. So it is in paper published that they have been forbidden to go out?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, in today's evening news, that all the borders have been warned to be very careful.

Prabhupāda: The other son is already outside India?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, he is out of politics. He is a wise man. He has not entered politics at all. Sanjiv.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is a pilot with Indian Airlines. He, I have never heard anything.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: He never heard about any politics or anything. He is just like an ordinary citizen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They say he is not as smart as Sanjay. That means he is not as crooked. So he is out of politics.

Bhakti-caru: He ran the . . . (indistinct)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: They have got. He is not living there.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He is a pilot with Indian Airlines.

Prabhupāda: That is honest life. Earn your livelihood. Who is the elder?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This pilot, Sanjiv. I got a letter from Vrinda De today. He says we are getting very good inquiries from our newspaper advertisement. I am producing a special catalogue, which we are going to give to everyone who writes and which is going to be cheap, because the American catalogue is very expensive. So he is asking . . .

Prabhupāda: We wanted some.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said he wanted some hundred copies.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, those were the American. But now we are doing the Indian version, which is costing us 30 paisa each. So that we can give away to anyone who writes in. So I am going to send them. But he says many inquiries are pouring in. And when I was in Calcutta three weeks ago I saw him in his office. He showed me letters. They are coming from all over east India, from Orissa, from Cuttack, about our books. During the month of March, BBT India distributed over about fifty thousand pieces of books and magazines to the temples, libraries, everything included. Fifty thousand pieces of books.

Prabhupāda: I have asked already Tamāla Kṛṣṇa. Can you give me a statement of the account?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's ready.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is supposed to be bringing it to me tomorrow morning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. It is being typed. It is all ready. I am showing you a complete statement of all the paper purchased, how it is used, a complete statement of every book printed in India, where it is distributed, what the balance is; complete inventory report, how much stock we have in hand, and books distributed in the month of March. We are producing these reports every month now. Everything. All the records are there. And actually . . .

Prabhupāda: No, but that bank manager wanted to come?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He came, but I only got back by four-thirty, and he said he would come again at eleven o'clock tomorrow morning.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Indian Overseas?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, State Bank.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was reading, going through my mail. State Bank had written to me earlier. They are also applying for an extension counter, and we want a full bank, because they were seeing me before, their manager here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda said that if they are willing to pay the rent, even if in the beginning it is only an extension counter, that's not so bad.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Like Indian Overseas, I gave them a rate of Rs. 4.50 paisa per square foot, but the market rate was 4.

Prabhupāda: They are also ready to . . .

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise our Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming, I have been asking them . . .

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, any branch. Like this is more attractive, because a branch may be close to their house. They just go in and say: "Take this ten rupees and give to Rādhā-Rāsavihārī temple in Juhu." So the bank . . . I spoke to three banks. They agreed. So this condition also they must agree, because this will be a very novel way of getting donation in Bombay area. They do this in the South.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: (indistinct name of a temple)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I cut that advertisement. I was very attracted when I saw it. Do you think it is a good idea?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go to . . .

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Kartikeya Mahadevia: . . . slowly about this Life Membership program is there. I am trying to liquidate my assets in Allahabad because all this my dead father, dead mother, brother, all the properties are now gone. So when that is free, I'll take up this property here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: That I am doing at home.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say that we are inviting, people may come, live peacefully and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is an attempt. Otherwise, we could have built some apartment house . . . (break) . . . the J.P.?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Prakash Narayan.

Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world: What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded: "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.

Prabhupāda: No, they know it. Study the whole history of the world. What the big, big leaders have done? They are not new leaders. Before them, all over the world there were big, big leaders. Napoleon promised so many things. At last, he had to drink horse's urine and die. When he was captured by the Englishmen he wanted water, and he was given horse urine. Envisioned, "I shall make my proudest, most important stage." The Britishers, so many—Gladstone, Churchill, Lloyd George, British Empire—what they have done? Where is British Empire? Indira made plan, Nehru family will be English terrorist. Now what is her position? So they studying history, still, they are promising. Mūḍha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the great saintly persons, their works have done good for generations in thousands of years.

Prabhupāda: Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Become rājarṣi; try to understand what Kṛṣṇa says. That's all. Duṣkṛtinaḥ mūḍhāḥ. They will manufacture. Morarji Desai, he promised within ten years. Whether he will live ten years? He is already eighty. So this is the time for promising? This is the time for retiring, for understanding Kṛṣṇa. No. This man is rotting in the hospital, he's promising so many things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you advised Gandhi that he should retire.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I advised Gandhi that he should retire. He never retired. That's all right. And our program is, they are chucked out. Pañcāśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. You show your all nonsense ability up to fifty years. Don't go more than that. Because you are rascal, you will never be able to do anything, but jump like monkey up to fifty years, not more than that. Monkey jumping may be continued up to fifty years. Then retire. They will continue monkey jumping up to the last point of death.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And then he'll jump into the grave.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then go to hell. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So after jumping, when this body is finished, he is going to accept another body offered by nature. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). Rascals, they do not know how nature is working. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). Making plan and wasting time, wasting their valuable life. At least, this institution which we have started to give this enlightenment, they must be maintained in India in a first-class standard, that at least some intelligent persons can take advantage. They are all fools, rascals. They cannot take. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. That is already described. Narādhamas will not take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But there are persons who are not narādhama. For them there must be. Diamond shop is not for everyone, but there are some persons who can purchase diamonds. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). It is not meant for everyone. So this is India's culture. At least, these men should be conscientious that, "Let this Bhagavad-gītā culture be maintained in pure form." There is cultural department, government. They are sending dancing party. You see? Real culture. And to make show they will pose themselves a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So we are making alone a little, teeny effort, but it is being appreciated all over the world. That is our encouragement. Our books, our philosophy, our religion, America has accepted: "Yes, it is Indian . . . (indistinct) . . ." It is not sentiment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone has seen that. The bank manager at Central Bank today said that, "I saw your movement is now respected as genuine religion." Everyone is aware of . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is genuine. It is genuine.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This court case turned out to be a blessing. You had said that earlier, not to worry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda wanted us to push it on for fourteen years.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The court case?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I would not have given up. I would have spent all my assets to fight this case. But Kṛṣṇa's grace—in one day. Not fourteen days even. This is Kṛṣṇa. On the first review. Yes. I wanted even fourteen years. Yes. I was prepared: "I will spend all my money." But Kṛṣṇa is so kind, He wanted, "Take it, this . . . (indistinct) . . . finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. I have written one chapter . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Wonderful Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: Yes. If simply they appreciate that Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, their life will be successful. This very simple thing. A child can do it. Kṛṣṇa is wonderful, there is no doubt. Let them admit only, they will be pushed forward in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I'll request only these big, big men that "Maintain this institution to attract intelligent persons from all over the world. And you do all nonsense, whatever you like, but maintain this. And if possible, after retirement come and do practical something." What is this nonsense? Andhā yathāndhair upa . . . what he will do? They are promising so many rascal things. What he will do? What you have got? Indira promised so many things. Bluffed. What she can do? Now she is, herself, Indira Gandhi . . . te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-trantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. They want to do something. What happens? Gandhi, when he started nonviolence, "Within one year." And he dragged for fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in India. Could not do anything. If you say that Gandhi could not do anything, people will be angry. But see, study the whole history. What did he do? Did the Britishers care for Gandhi's nonviolent movement? Pat him: "Let this rascal go on with his movement. We'll go on." That was the disagreement with Subhas Bose. Subhas Bose said, "Mahatmajī, they will never go by this nonviolence. You have to take to violence." He said that "I will never have independence, but I will not take it." Therefore he left India. When he organized that INA, and when the Britishers felt the . . . (indistinct) . . . "Now the soldiers have joined," all hopes lost. They did not give up India for Gandhi's nonviolence. (chuckles)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is what the usual belief is. The usual belief is that it was due to Gandhi's nonviolence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is said in Hong Kong, somewhere. People were astonished. Nobody said like that. And this is the fact.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I have small request. I have got a friend who is M.D. and he is doing research in Ayur-veda. He is about eighty-three years old. So I was just wondering whether you would like to meet him some time for consultation.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: He had done translation of Suśruta-saṁhitā from Sanskrit to English in six volumes, and he has established one Ayurvedic college and other things in Jahmnedabad about thirty years ago. He is a very personal friend of our life member Sanat Bhatai and . . . (indistinct) . . . who are expert in income tax. They are handling our income tax matters. He's a senior partner, about eighty-four years old. So I talked to him today, and he has thought whether you would like to take his advantage of the knowledge of the . . .

Prabhupāda: Yes, I can take advantage, but no medicine.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, we can have discussion with him. We can have only consultation, and he is doing out of friendly relation. He does not want money out of you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's all right.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: He is of your own age. So if you tell me then I can bring him tomorrow, because I am going out on seventh.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: What is a good time?

Prabhupāda: This time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The afternoon is best.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: (Prem Yogi enters) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kaam sab chal raha hai to? (So all the work is going on nicely?)

Prem Yogi: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Prem Yogi: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Solan me ek vyakti humko ek jagah dene ke liye tayyar hai. (One person is ready to give me a place at Solan.)

Prem Yogi: Do kamre. (Two rooms.)

Prabhupāda: Do kamre. Solan bara accha jagah hai. (Two rooms. Solan is a very nice place.)

Prem Yogi: Shimla ke raste pe. (It's on the way to Shimla.)

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So I am asking, you going to Delhi.

Prem Yogi: Kuch dino ke liye. (For a few days I think)

Prabhupāda: To jao udhar . . . (indistinct) . . . udhar prachar karo. Suna hai accha jagah hai. Aur agar theek hai to rahe jao. Aur Kashmir me agar hum jaoonga . . . (So now you go to this place . . . (indistinct) . . . preach there. I have heard it's a good place. If the place is good then you stay there. And in case I go to Kashmir . . .)

Prem Yogi: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: To tumko bula loonga. (Then I will call you there.)

Prem Yogi: Thik hai. (Alright.)

Prabhupāda: Baki ye sab kaam sab theek se karo. (Besides, do all these jobs properly.) You are the right person.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I was telling Prem Yogi that everybody is already asking for First Canto, Part Two. They are saying: "Where is Part Two?" I said it is coming up quickly.

Prabhupāda: Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā śreya-ācaraṇam sadā (SB 10.22.35). This is premame jīvātmā. Prāṇair arthair dhiyā vācā. Kiska jo kuch hai. Pran to sab koi ka hai. Pran jo de diya yo sab de diya. Agar pran nahi de sakta hai to do kuch artha do. Agar artha nahi hai to buddhi do. Buddhi vi hai nahi to kuch vacan de do. DO kuch na kuch. Khali leo nahi . . . (indistinct) . . . jo khali leta hi jata hai, deta nahi hai . . . Yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah. (BG 3.9) Aur aaplog sikhate nahi. Deo, kuch nahi, jo kuch hai do. 'sarva dharman parityajya', dhiyā vācā. Deo mane khali deo nahi, hmm. Bhagawan to khud bol raha hai 'Yat karosi yad asnasi yaj juhosi dadasi yat'. (BG 9.27) Khud bol raha hai. Kuch dene ko shuroo karo, that is life. Aur Bhagvan bolta nahi keya 'Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati' (BG 9.26). To dene me to mushkil hai kya. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru (BG 9.34) (Whatever one may have. Everyone has life. Who has given his life has given everything. If one can't give life then give some money. If one doesn't have money then give intelligence. If one doesn't have intelligence also then give some words. Give something or other. Don't just take only . . . (indistinct) . . . one who only takes and doesn't give anything . . . yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanah. (BG 3.9). And you people also don't teach. Give, nothing is there, whatever you have give. Sarva dharman parityajya, dhiyā vācā. Giving means just not only giving, hmm. God Himself is saying Yat karosi yad asnasi yaj juhosi dadasi yat (BG 9.27). Himself is saying. At least just begin to give something, that is life. Doesn't God tells this Patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati (BG 9.26). Then what is the difficulty in giving? Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru (BG 9.34))

Prabhupāda: Why people do not understand this philosophy? Making plan for welfare activities. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Uru. Uru uru uru kathin hai? Uru means? (Uru. Uru uru uru is it hard? Uru means?)

Prem Yogi: Uru means . . . um . . .

Prabhupāda: The uru means shakt vi hota hai. (Uru also means hard.)

Prem Yogi: Hmm.

Prabhupāda: Uru-dāmni. Kathin log, baddha. (Difficult people, bound.) Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām (SB 7.5.30). Ye jo griha vrata hai, hamara desh hai, hamara ghar hai, hamara family hai, hamara ye hai, hamara hamara hamara. This is called gṛha. Ye chota aadmi log bolta hai hamara ye ghar hai, yehi humara sab kuch hai. Aur thoda bada leader hai, bolta hai hamara desh hai. Hai grha vrata. (Matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām (SB 7.5.30). These householder people, this is my country, this is my home, my family, this is mine, mine, mine, mine. This is called a household. Poor people say that this is my home, this is everything to me. And some big leader, he says this is my country. Ultimately household.)

Prabhupāda: Expanded gṛha, and . . . what is called? It is concentrated . . .

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Contracted.

Prabhupāda: Contracted. Contraction and ex . . . extraction?

Prem Yogi: Expansion.

Prabhupāda: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Can I take leave, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Can I take leave?

Prabhupāda: Give them fruit.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Can I come in the afternoon at about 4:30? Tomorrow, 4:30? (leaves)

Prabhupāda: Delhi se solan zyada door nahi hai. (Solan is not very far from Delhi.)

Prem Yogi: Udhar to mai gaya tha. (I have gone there.)

Prabhupāda: Accha solan. (Okay solan.) (break)

Prem Yogi: Haan, solan me gaya tha. (Yes I had gone to Solan.)

Prabhupāda: Han! (Really!)

Prem Yogi: Shimla bhi gaya tha. (I also went to Shimla.)

Prabhupāda: Achha. (Okay.)

Prem Yogi: Bahut saal pehle, ya nehi 4-5 saal. (Many years ago I had gone, about 4 to 5 years back.)

Prabhupada: Hmm, kaisa jagah hai? (Hmm, what sort of place is it?)

Prem Yogi: Yo acchi jagah hai . . . (indistinct) . . . Chota nahi hai, bada hai. Oh Shimla ke raste me padta hai. (It's a very good place . . . (indistinct) . . . it's not a small place, quite a big place. It is on the way to Shimla.)

Prabhupada: Solan? (Solan?)

Prem Yogi: Chandigarh ke upar Kalka hai. (Above Chandigarh there is Kalka.)

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Prem Yogi: Kalka ke upar Solan. Uha apko kaha se mila hai? (And above Kalka there is Solan. Where have you got this place?)

Prabhupada: Umm, udhar? Ek bhakta hai, unka jaga hai, hum log ko dene ko chahata hai udhar me. (Hmm, there? One devotee is there, he has a place, he wants to give it to us there.)

Prem Yogi: Hmm hmm. Thik hai. (Hmm, hmm. Okay.)

Prabhupada: Jaga thik hai? (Is the place okay?)

Prem Yogi: Thik hai. . . . (indistinct) . . . Shimla me koi diye nahi? (Yes okay . . . (indistinct) . . . none have given any place in Shimla?)

Prabhupada: Nahi. (No.)

Prem Yogi: Shimla me . . . (indistinct) . . . (In Shimla . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupada: Aisa to offer bahut aya tha, Nainital aur Shimla, admi ka keya kare? Leke chale gaya , ye sab bhari bhari sab . . . (indistinct) . . . (Many such offers came from Nainital and Shimla, but what to do about people? They have taken away some heavy things . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prem Yogi: To abhi Vrindavan ja kar ke mai wo . . . (So should I now go to Vrindavan and do . . .)

Prabhupada: Sab thik thak karo . . . (indistinct) . . . Vrindavan to Delhi , Delhi to Solan. (Yes do everything properly. . . (indistinct) . . . Vrindavan to Delhi, Delhi to Solan.)

Prem Yogi: Achha. Aur jo Krishna Consciousness le gaya jo . . . (indistinct) . . . (Okay. And regarding that Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that was taken away . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupada: Harer nama, Harer nama, Harer namaiva kevalam. Kali yug me. (Harer nama, Harer nama, Harer namaiva kevalam. In the age of Kali.)

Prem Yogi: Oh, ant me conclusion to ohi ata hai? (Finally that is the conclusion, isn't it?)

Prabhupada: Our Vedic scholar. This is vedic reference kitab Harvard university se nikala hai. 1906 me ekbar publish hua tha, phir shat barash baad fir publish . . . (indistinct) . . . mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sab manda matayo, manda bhagya. Brahman kaha? . . . (indistinct) . . . hum log ka ekdin brhaman mila . . . (indistinct) . . . Chaitanya Mahaprabhu isliye bole, Guru more murkha dekhi karilo sashan. Guru, hamara Guru maharaj hamko murkha dekhke humko sashan kar diya, ki tum kyun Vedanta par rahe ho? Murkh. Karo Hari naam. This is Chaitanya . . . Chaitanya Mahaprabhu keya murkh? Yeh hum log ke liye jo murkh insaan hai . . . Cheto darpana marjanam, Herer nama Harer nama . . . baki kucho na chahiye Bhagavat dham . . . (indistinct) . . . (Our Vedic scholar. This is a vedic reference book, came from Harvard university. In 1906 this was published once, then again now after sixty years later they published it . . . (indistinct) . . . mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Everyone's mind is bad, and fortune also bad, where is Brahman? . . . (indistinct) . . . one day we met a Brhaman . . . (indistinct) . . . that's why Caitanya Mahāprabhu said , Guru more murkha dekhi karilo sashan. Guru, my Spiritual master seeing me a fool chastised me, why are you studying Vedanta? You fool. Do Hari naam. This is Caitanya . . . is Caitanya Mahaprabhu a fool? This is for foolish people like us . . . Cheto darpana marjanam, Herer nama Harer nama . . . nothing else is required to go to back to Godhead . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prem Yogi: Aap ka instruction tha wo Vrindavan me . . . (And your instruction regarding Vrindavan . . .)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is doing good translations.

Prabhupāda: People will appreciate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are. He is scholarly.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Scholar. Doctor. Philosopher.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is he actually a doctor?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We couldn't get to the Kashmir tourist office today.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Never mind.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That place is not too high altitude? Someone told us that he was in Kashmir at eleven thousand feet altitude. That boy who was driving us today, he was there last year.

Prabhupāda: That is crossing. But . . .

Bhavānanda: The valleys.

Prabhupāda: . . . the real Kashmir is the valleys. Five thousand.

Bhavānanda: Gargamuni says in those valleys it is very hot.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was there?

Bhavānanda: He was either in Kashmir or right next to it, same area, Sivagudhi, Shimla or someplace.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shimla, yeah. He was in Shimla.

Bhavānanda: Very hot.

Prabhupāda: No, Shimla is not hot. This Srinagar is not hot. I know that. I went there. I know, when I crossed, there was snow on the road. So when Guru dāsa will send his report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as he meets Dr. Karan Singh. I told him to make detailed arrangements and give detailed report. You are eager to go there, I think.

Prabhupāda: Not very eager. I was eager only that if I simply get regular appetite, then the . . . I can get some strength to work, that's all. So ask them to give me little orange.

Bhavānanda: Our only concern is that in the traveling to get to a place where you may get some strength—may not—that you will lose strength in the traveling. Without a guarantee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Bhavānanda: You would like some orange, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Anything else?

Prabhupāda: A little salt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Bhavānanda around is . . . (break)

Prabhupāda: (telling story) "You have taken my watch?" "Yes." "So bring it now." "No." (laughter) "All right then. I am going to hand over to police." "Very good." He has smuggled it. And the police came. So he was going to arrest them. He was astonished. (laughter) (break) (end)