771022 - Conversation A - Vrndavana

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

771022R1-VRNDAVAN - October 22, 1977 - 84:58 Minutes

Bhavānanda: Dosage on this medicine, do you know?

Bhakti-caru: That he'll prescribe when he comes, according to the condition.

Bhavānanda: I thought he had said once a week.

Bhakti-caru: He said something like that. Then he said . . .

Bhavānanda: We can speak to him, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) Not sure of what the dosage is. We can speak to him, find out. (break) (indistinct fragments with breaks, as tape is tested)

Dr. Gopal: Unse puch kar ke . . . (After asking them . . .) . . . however, it will not interfere with my medicine. You understand?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Dr. Gopal: It will not interfere with my medicine.

Indian man: We have prepared some golden and pearl and musk.

Dr. Gopal: Oh, moti-dṛṣṭi. Oh, that he can have.

Indian man: Nahi nahi ye moti-dṛṣṭi nahi hai. (No no, this is not moti-dṛṣṭi.)

Bhakti-caru: This is makara-dhvaja. There are three different ingredients of makara-dhvaja.

Dr. Gopal: The makara-dhvaja is different, but . . .

Indian man: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: This is gold, musk and pearl.

Indian man: Pearl.

Bhavānanda: That was this.

Indian man: . . . (indistinct Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: Yeah this is makara-dhvaja raksha.

Dr. Gopal: Accha. (Okay.) Moti-dṛṣṭi as well as makara-dhvaja are prepared with the same thing.

Bhakti-caru: No, in makara-dhvaja, musk and gold and pearl is used.

Dr. Gopal: Moti-dṛṣṭi gold and pearls are there.

Bhakti-caru: But in makara-dhvaja, raṣana.

Dr. Gopal: I don't know about that. But we can ask Bedaji what is the dose and which one is better, whether moti-dṛṣṭi or this. Moti-dṛṣṭi is usually given . . . Rozana honey ke sath dete hain. (It's given daily with honey.) I don't know about this.

Bhavānanda: We can find out. And that can be given. It won't interfere with your treatment at all.

Dr. Gopal: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about appetite?

Dr. Gopal: Anything more?

Prabhupāda: What I can say? You belong to some Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? Eh?

Dr. Gopal: Yes, of course I am Vaiṣṇava, but not by initiation.

Prabhupāda: No, your family belongs to which Vaiṣṇava sampradāya? There are four sampradāya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are four sampradāyas: Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī . . .

Dr. Gopal: I don't know myself, because I know only this much, that I am a man and a Hindu, that's all, bāniyā by caste, by born in their family. Profession, my serve you.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is your family originally from? Which area of the country?

Dr. Gopal: Mostly belongs to district Mathurā itself, in Bles near Mathurā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For many centuries? Do you know?

Dr. Gopal: No, my father migrated from this place to district Agra, Siroabad, in 1945.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Before that time?

Dr. Gopal: Before that, I was hardly two years old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, your forefathers were from any part of India besides this?

Dr. Gopal: No. They're always from this U.P.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ācchā. (break)

Bhavānanda: . . . in Vṛndāvana. That perhaps he could stop there and just inquire whether they had any kavirāja there, because that's Rāmānuja-sampradāya. Shall he do that? (break)

Prabhupāda: Eh? What is that? No. This doctor's treatment is failure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's starting to guess.

Prabhupāda: Now . . . where is Bhakti . . .?

Bhavānanda: Bhakti-caru is just waiting to go and get the kavirāja in the front. Do you want me to bring him?

Prabhupāda: Call him.

Bhavānanda: He's up in the aradesko.

Prabhupāda: They will simply guess.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he's guessing.

Bhavānanda: On and on.

Prabhupāda: So it is failure. Now take makara-dhvaja, one dose, and leave everything for Kṛṣṇa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hmm?

Bhavānanda: Take that medicine and leave everything to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That makara-dhvaja.

Bhavānanda: Yes. We felt that your dream, Śrīla Prabhupāda, was very significant.

Prabhupāda: Doctor treatment is finished. Don't try any . . . they will simply guess and make huge complication.

Bhavānanda: Here is Bhakti-caru, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So . . . Rāmānuja-sampradāya kavirāja Jodi thake take nie eso. Ramanuja sampradayer kavirajke. (If there is any Ramanuja-sampradaya kavirāja, call him here.) Doctor treatment, failure.

Bhakti-caru: Accha, dui jankei anbo. Tobe apnar prasrab ta kintu clear hoeche, Srila Prabhupada, ei koek dine. Oi osudh ta near age rong jerokom chilo, prasrab er ardhektai . . . (Okay, I will bring both of them. However, your urine is becoming clearer Srila Prabhupāda, in the last few days. Before you took this medicine, the color of your urine was different, half of the urine . . .) I was telling that it worked as far as urine was concerned.

Bhavānanda: We're not sure that that was the result of the medicine or the result of liquid intake.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The urine has been clear for five months in a row, so when it got unclear for three days and Prabhupāda wasn't drinking anything, then as soon as he drank it became clear. So I can't conclude that it was the doctor.

Bhakti-caru: Ācchā. Srila Prabhupada, tahole ekhon ami jai, deke nie asi kaviraj der. (Srila Prabhupāda, then let me go now and call the kavirāja.) (pause)

Prabhupāda: What he has said? Hmm?

Ādi-keśava: What did he say, the doctor?

Bhavānanda: Well, he was stumped as to why you had no appetite, and he said that possibly because you are taking less air in your left lung than in your right lung, there may be some infection in the lung—he said that generally is denoted also by lack of appetite—of some tubercular or pleurisy or pneumatic nature.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he's prescribing that anti-tuberculin drug called Isotoxin. That's also called Isoniazid. That is anti-tuberculin drug that he's prescribing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But he doesn't even know. He doesn't really know if it's tuberculous.

Bhavānanda: He didn't prescribe any medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One of the medicines is that Isotoxin. I asked . . .

Ādi-keśava: That is a very, very strong drug, very, very strong. It has a very heavy effect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Isotoxin is also called Isoniazid. It's the chemical name. I know that; I discussed with the authority.

Prabhupāda: Then he'll say, "Remove to the hospital."

Bhavānanda: "Then they'll say move to the hospital."

Prabhupāda: Then who will take care of me? Hmm?

Bhavānanda: We will never allow them to remove you to a hospital, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: You'll have to, gradually, according to his advice.

Bhavānanda: Therefore we asked you yesterday for your guidance.

Prabhupāda: No, I'll guide. Don't move me to the hospital. Better kill me here.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We won't, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhavānanda: Never.

Prabhupāda: But if you are disgusted, that is another thing.

(whispering among devotees about Prabhupāda's statement)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One thing, though, if we take the x-rays, that will pretty much clearly tell whether there is any tubercular infection in the lungs.

Prabhupāda: They are expecting.

Bhavānanda: (in disbelief) If we are disgusted?

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Bhavānanda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Never, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhavānanda: Service at your divine lotus feet is the perfection of life. Our only fear is that Your Divine Grace may become disgusted.

Prabhupāda: No, I have no dis . . . doctor treatment failure.

Bhavānanda: Doctor treatment is finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Taking these strong medicines without eating is very difficult. Many side effects.

Bhavānanda: Yes. Anyway, we gave him chance. Your Divine Grace gave him a fair chance to . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually, the whole thing only began because Dr. Ghosh came. Actually, you didn't want Dr. Ghosh to come, but it was too late. We had already sent Lokanātha. So once Dr. Ghosh came, we were obligated to try these allopathic medicines. It was Dr. Ghosh who brought Dr. Gopal. Otherwise, from your own choice, we would not have, you know . . . we were obligated because of Dr. Ghosh's coming. Naturally . . . he came so long, such a distance. From the beginning you always don't like the allopathic. You never like it very much.

Prabhupāda: I'll treat myself. Let the kavirājas come. And makara-dhvaja. One after another, they will make the things complicated. What is your opinion? Hmm?

Bhavānanda: We all feel, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that your direction is absolutely perfect. It is coming directly from the spiritual platform. Therefore anything which you tell us to do, we want to do, and we have full faith and confidence that it is absolutely correct. But we don't have full faith and confidence in people who are materially conditioned. Therefore we have taken you as our spiritual master. You have perfect knowledge of everything spiritual and you have perfect knowledge of everything material.

Prabhupāda: So, all of you agree to this?

Bhavānanda: Do we all agree?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Then I will give direction. Simply I want to know about the makara-dhvaja, consulting both the kavirājas. (pause) Why you stop kīrtana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go ahead, Pañca. (kīrtana begins)

Prabhupāda: Mildly kīrtana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Mild kīrtana, tell him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mild kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Where is Haṁsadūta?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Haṁsadūta's kīrtana?

Prabhupāda: Baradrāj or . . .

Bhavānanda: Baradrāj.

Ādi-keśava: He's in his room.

Prabhupāda: Eh? They are avoiding?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: They are avoiding me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are avoiding?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (chuckling) I don't think so.

Brahmānanda: Who is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Baradrāj and Haṁsadūta.

Pradyumna: Haṁsadūta was here at lunchtime.

Upendra: Baradrāj came also. He was here most of the morning.

Brahmānanda: You were resting at that time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They sang for nearly two or three hours.

Upendra: Baradrāj is a little ill.

Śatadhanya: And he said that as soon as you wake up, then he will come.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think anyone is avoiding, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was just thinking that that doctor, it seems, doesn't know very well.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So whatever Your Divine Grace instructs us, we are ready to serve.

Prabhupāda: If you move me from here, I will immediately die. (pause) I cannot live.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: I cannot live without your company.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And we cannot live without your company, Śrīla Prabhupāda. So you stay here, and we'll stay with you.

Prabhupāda: Do that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We'll stay forever, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do that. Take this, this allopathic treatment, failure.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's a failure, allopathic treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you be interested in hearing any of the Bhāgavatam that they have edited? I think that would be nice.

Upendra: I'd like to give Prabhupāda a bath.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. You sit down, all, and let us try.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Upendra wants to know if he can give you a bath.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So after the bath we'll have Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.

Prabhupāda: And stop all medicine. (laughter)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is the real medicine.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The trouble with the allopathic medicine is that they have so much side effects that it might make very uncomfortable to . . .

Prabhupāda: This is already uncomfortable.

Bhavānanda: I think that this doctor's desire you have seen through. His desire was to remove you from here somehow or other. First to remove you for an x-ray, then . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another trick they have is that you have one trouble, so they give you a medicine, but the medicine causes a worse trouble. And eventually such bad trouble is created that they get you depending on them, and then they say, "Now the only thing left, you must come to the hospital for operation." Then they kill you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, injection, operation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was asking us, "Does your Guruji have any obj . . .? Will he take an injection?" So we said: "No." He was hopeless. He was guessing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, he didn't know the real cause.

Prabhupāda: They do not know. They use machine. Their means of knowing—machine. They do not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have many medical friends. They frankly admit that oftentimes they kill the patients in the name of treating. It turns out that it was their own medicine that they gave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Recently that Dalmia secretary . . . what is his name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hitsaran Sharma.

Prabhupāda: In pathology his prescription was replaced by another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't follow. Recently whose?

Upendra: His prescription was replaced by another.

Prabhupāda: He had some trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hitsaran.

Prabhupāda: So, what is called? Pathology?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pathology? No.

Prabhupāda: No, laboratory testing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What's laboratory test called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pathology?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So his case was transferred to another.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (laughs) Oh, boy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: One after another.

Bhavānanda: Mixed up.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, mixed up. His diagnosis was given to someone else. They made a mistake, and then they treated the other person.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh!

Prabhupāda: And he was being treated as tuberculosis.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, boy.

Ādi-keśava: Sometimes they make the operations, and they leave the knife in, and they sew the knife up inside after they make an operation. Or the scissors. They take some clamps and they sew them inside the wound. And then the man says: "Oh, I have a pain in my side." And they say, "Oh, new disease," and they make another operation and take out the clamps or the knife.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sometimes they only depend on machines, these medical doctors. That's why he's mentioning about x-ray. Through these machines you cannot tell the correct diagnosis.

Prabhupāda: I have got many experiences in my family life. One servant, Kashiram.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Kashiram.

Prabhupāda: Yes, his name was Kashiram. So he was howling, howling. So we took him to the hospital, and so many student doctors surrounded. They diagnosed something, strangulation or something like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Strangulation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then they were prepared to surgical operation. Then another experienced doctor came. He said: "Let us wait today." So he was kept in the hospital, and we came back. That Kashiram . . . another friend, servant of the neighborhood, and so he said, "Bābājī, he has drunk little."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He got a little drunk.

Prabhupāda: So I said: "Don't delay. So many doctors . . ." And next morning he came back and said, "The doctor said: 'You are all right. You can go.' "

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was just drunk from liquor. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I had a similar story. It is my own personal experience. In 1974 I came here in India. I got malaria in the United States in summer 1975. Then temperature was very high. I went to the Baptist Hospital in Atlanta. They thought it was a virus, viral infection. They couldn't diagnose. Then they gave some medicine, and then I went. But it started again the following day, then I went to another doctor. He could not diagnose. So they gave me glucose injection, a big bottle, thinking it was a strange viral infection. So about six, seven doctors, they couldn't diagnose for three-four days. Then one day there was a doctor who came from Vietnam, he had some experience in tropical disease. So he thought it might be malarial fever. Then, after that, I was surrounded by many doctors thinking that it was a strange disease before, but they diagnosed . . . but it was not right. They did all the wrong medicine, thinking it was a viral infection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is in America, just two years ago.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told you the story of my father recently, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how he had the arthritis in the hip, so they gave him a new hip. Then it moved to the other hip, and they replaced the other hip. So after eight weeks he was in bed in the hospital, and then they said: "Now you can try to walk." So they gave him crutches, and they stood him up, and after eight weeks of all these operations, as soon as he stood up he had a heart attack and died right on the spot. They were very sure. "Now you're all right," they told him.

Devotee: My great-uncle, he had tonsillitis, so he went to a friend who was a doctor, and the friend said: "That's all right. We'll operate, and I will not charge you anything." So he went into the hospital, and in the operation the doctor dropped a scalpel, and after that . . . he was very big, and he became very small, never could eat again. (break)

Prabhupāda: No protection.

Bhavānanda: There's no protection. (break)

Bhakti-caru: Ami Ramanuji kavirajer sandhan peyechi. Uni Janaklivallabh mandire oder je databya chikitsalay ache tate uni achen. Uni Jamunar oi pare gechen, choitar somoy fire asben. Ami bole esechi je tokhon ami onake nie asbo. Ami vablam je Banamali babukeu sei eksonge nie asi? Uni. . . ja bornona pelam mathay ramanuji tilak katen uni, boyosh tar shat bochor, briddha moton. Ami chhoitar somoy gie unake nie asbo, Srila Prabhupada. (I got the information about the Ramanuji kavirāja. He lives at the charity hospital in the Janaki-vallabh temple. He has gone to the other side of the Yamuna, he will be back at 6 pm in the evening. I told them that I will go at that time and bring him here. So I thought to bring Banamali babu as well, together with him. He . . . the narration I got, he puts Ramanuji tilaka on his forehead. He is about sixty, kind of old. I will go at six and bring him here Prabhupāda.) (leaves room)

Prabhupāda: So? Bhāgavata?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatam translation? I'll arrange now? (kīrtana by Baradrāj) (break)

Trivikrama: . . . cannot do its plundering business.

Prabhupāda: The sun cannot take life during the Bhāgavata discussion. The more you discuss Bhāgavatam, you keep your life. Who is standing here?

Tripurāri: Now Baradrāj is chanting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is standing? Dhṛṣṭadyumna Mahārāja, Svarūpa Dāmodara, Tripurāri Mahārāja, Nayanābhirāma, Bhavānanda Mahārāja, Upendra, Trivikrama Mahārāja, Pañca-draviḍa Mahārāja, Brahmānanda Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: So, you are understanding?

Devotees: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Trivikrama: By your mercy.

Prabhupāda: Then we stop here?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We'll have kīrtana now. Should I leave the light that's on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Bhavānanda: If you'd like.

Prabhupāda: Because my that quarter is more ventilated.

Bhavānanda: Yes, we can do.

Prabhupāda: So last days I can stay there, and when I die, just bury me in the place where you are proposing to . . .

Bhavānanda: Your house.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Yes, we can arrange.

Prabhupāda: So think over the matter.

Bhavānanda: Yes, I'll discuss it with Tamāla, and we'll . . .

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bhavānanda: It's very nice there, well ventilated. I'll speak to Tamāla Kṛṣṇa now.

Prabhupāda: Call him.

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Who is here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Svarūpa Dāmodara, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I am proposing to go to Māyāpur.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You want to go to Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just conditions, Śrīla Prabhupāda, will be proper?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Traveling by train? It will be a little difficulty, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Upendra: Of course, Prabhupāda came from London, and the doctor said he couldn't come.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Upendra: The doctor in London . . . you came from London, and then you came from Bombay to Vṛndāvana in very weak condition.

Prabhupāda: So weak condition . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It will be little warmer in Māyāpur. In Māyāpur the weather will be a little warmer. Also, the air is fresher in that sense.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, here is Tamāla.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (offers obeisances) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you think over transferring me to Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually it's a great pleasure to take you to different places, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and we certainly never find any difficulty in transporting you. I was wondering that . . . as Vṛndāvana gets quite cold in the winter, I was just wondering how you would be able to pass the winter here, and I was thinking that Māyāpur was a very natural place to go. Now, just now, it is very nice here in Vṛndāvana. Probably for two or three more weeks it's the topmost time. But shortly it will be getting cold.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: November.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And at that time it might be the ideal opportunity.

Prabhupāda: Why not do that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think you're finding any difficulty here, are you?

Prabhupāda: No. Māyāpur is still more open.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fresh air.

Prabhupāda: Fresh air.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Māyāpur is wonderful at the winter season.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You get the benefit of the winter sun, which is tremendously healing in its effect.

Prabhupāda: In November, December, January, February.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think you once said to us that if one sits for some time in the winter sun, he'll never get sick.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Rub with oil and sit in the sun. I think it's a sound proposal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, actually it gets very cold here in the wintertime. It wouldn't be very good to stay here when it's too cold, because we would have to keep the windows closed, and then it would be too stuffy. Fresh air is very healthy. Open.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a fast train from Delhi to Calcutta, just like the train you all came in. We can get a . . . yes. It's called Rajdhani. It's a very fast train.

Bhavānanda: And they have a sleeper on it also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's all air-conditioned.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No. Just like this train you came by. It will be air-conditioned, but have some un–air-conditioned compartments.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, that won't be difficult to take you. It's not difficult. Any jumbos flying from Delhi?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I can check on that.

(indistinct whispered comment)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it has to be a Jumbo.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have Airbus.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's useless. There's no benefit in Airbuses. The seats are the same on an Airbus. There's no first class.

Bhavānanda: When you're feeling stronger, then the veranda is there for nice stroll.

Prabhupāda: There is ample space.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think change is good also sometimes. So we should make that program?

Prabhupāda: I think so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, traveling with you is a great pleasure for us, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's always very exciting to travel with you.

Prabhupāda: And in Māyāpur, if you keep me in my quarters, and take little care, that's all. Take little care, that's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: "Take little care, that's all."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lots of care.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We're all at your disposal, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "No king was ever served like this," you said.

Prabhupāda: Here, in one room, always closed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's a fact. It's closed. I felt it today, especially when you were translating. It's very . . . it's a claus . . . it got a little stuffy. When one can move around easily, then this house is very first class. But because the rooms are such design, if one has to stay in one room, then it can get a little bit stuffy. Just like here, the only opening is from one side. In Māyāpur we'll get the cross ventilation.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very healthy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Perhaps there are also some good vegetables or fruits that may be in season in the winter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Vegetable boiled. Fresh vegetable. I can take little.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Jaya.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause there everything that we eat is grown on our own land, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Bindi. Yes. Whatever vegetable is grown there, so boil. I can take. What vegetable grown?

Bhavānanda: Now we're growing begun and tomato and potal.

Prabhupāda: Where . . .?

Bhavānanda: That was when I left. The potal were very tender.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think potal grows a lot of the time in Māyāpur, doesn't it?

Bhavānanda: And sim.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Bhavānanda: Puishak.

Prabhupāda: Everything is there.

Bhavānanda: Everything is there.

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda, what does he . . .?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Brahmānanda, what do you think?

Brahmānanda: I think it's a very good idea, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Very good program.

Prabhupāda: Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi . . . eh? What is that song?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi . . . one minute and we'll find it.

Prabhupāda: Tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās.

Pradyumna: Jebā jāne cintāmaṇi?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, jebā jāne cintāmaṇi, tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can you find it?

Prabhupāda: And we have got such a nice place, open place, palatial building, such finer . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This will be added incentive to complete . . . to build your house.

Bhavānanda: Everyone will be in ecstasy, especially the gurukula boys most of all. They're always asking, "When is Śrīla Prabhupāda coming? When he's coming? Tomorrow?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And I will cash those certificates when we get to Calcutta, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Then I don't have to call for them. If we go there, then I'll do everything there. It will be very easy.

Prabhupāda: So that is my proposal. Now you think over seriously and arrange for.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now you will shower your mercy upon the Vaiṣṇavas of Bengal, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Or I shall go there to take their dust of feet.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Take the dust . . .

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of their feet. I think this is the right plan, Śrīla Prabhupāda, because then, by March or April, it will be time for you . . . the festival will be there. And then, with hundreds and hundreds, maybe thousands of ISKCON Vaiṣṇavas from all over the world, you will be better. And then with a great contingent we will travel around the world.

Bhavānanda: Jaya.

Devotees: Jaya. Haribol.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Bhakti-prema Swami.

Prabhupāda: Oh. So Bhakti-prema, you are also coming?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda's thinking to go to Māyāpur. He says are you also coming with him?

Bhakti-prema: Certainly, Mahārāja. I would like to come . . . (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So let us go in a team. (laughter)

Bhavānanda: Team spirit. And you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, are the captain.

Devotee (2): Captain of the ship.

Prabhupāda: You have seen Māyāpur?

Devotees: Have you seen Māyāpur?

Bhakti-prema: No.

Prabhupāda: So let me go. Enough place. You can have two rooms. (laughter) Yes. In new building.

Bhavānanda: Yes. There is no dearth of rooms.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're so attractive that it's very hard for everyone to remain in their services around the world. They simply want to come and be with you.

Prabhupāda: And as I will remain in Māyāpur or Vṛndāvana—the same.

Devotee: Same.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi, jebā jāne cintāmaṇi, tāra hoy braja-bhūmi bās. There is no difference. Gauḍa-maṇḍala-bhūmi. And if there is any danger, Bhavānanda has got his gun. (laughter) (Tamāla Kṛṣṇa repeats to others) (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Every moment with you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is so wonderful.

Prabhupāda: So I shall prefer.

Devotees: What, Prabhupāda?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "So I shall prefer." Maybe Svarūpa Dāmodara Prabhu can arrange some conferences for himself in Calcutta. Then he can come and visit you regularly in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, we'll do that in Calcutta. Calcutta is a big place for us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That way he can come regularly and give you report on how the science conferences are going. That will be very enlivening. (to Svarūpa Dāmodara) That's part of your plan.

Bhavānanda: I'm already thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, what preparations we have to make.

Prabhupāda: Simply fresh vegetable.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Simply fresh vegetable.

Prabhupāda: And mung ḍāl also.

Bhavānanda: Everything comes to life when you come to Māyāpur. You are the crown jewel. Māyāpur is such beautiful setting, but without Your Divine Grace's presence, we are always feeling empty-hearted. And as soon as you come, all of us are enlivened.

Prabhupāda: So let us go in a team.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we may have enough devotees to fill the whole train.

Bhavānanda: By looking at all the devotees assembled here, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the looks on their faces indicate that everyone likes this idea.

Prabhupāda: So do it. Do it.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a good idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So shall we perform some kīrtana, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Haṁsadūta Swami is here.

Prabhupāda: Jaya.

Bhavānanda: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Indian lady: Nadi dekhni hai apki. (I want to see your pulse.)

Prabhupāda: Hum Hindi bol sakta. (I can speak Hindi.)

Indian lady: Maharaj ji, apki jo prakriti hai woh Vata-Pitta . . . (indistinct) . . . Ayurved shastra mein aur yeh Naadi ka jo vidhaan hai, woh is tarah se hai . . . (indistinct) . . . yeh yantra hai, jiska woh kendra bindu hai. Uska, jismein se sau nadiya hoti hai, aur uske sau up-nadiya hoti hai aur ek ek nadi ki das sahastra sah-nadiya hoti hai. Es tarah se woh hriday jo yantra hai, woh . . . (indistinct) . . . woh vyapt hai. Uska jo jal hai. Lekin uka jo kendra bindu jo hai woh . . . (indistinct) . . . ka madhyam hai. To yeh to usmei . . . (indistinct) . . . dusra, yeh vrikka jo hai, yeh idhar wala hai. Vrikka usko kehte hai, jiska yeh sthan hai. (Respected Mahārāja, your constitution as per Ayurveda is of vata-pitta . . . (indistinct) . . . as per the Ayurvedic scriptures and the science of Naadi (pulse) it is . . . (indistinct) . . . this is an instrument and this is its central point. From which hundreds of pathways are there and further hundred sub pathways and from each pathway there are ten thousand pathways along with it. Like this, the heart which is an instrument, it is . . . (indistinct) . . . prevalent. Its network is there. But its central point is there . . . (indistinct) . . . is its medium. So this is inside . . . (indistinct) . . . secondly, this kidney, this one—it's called kidney and its location is this.)

Bhakti-caru: Kidney

Indian lady: Hum ussey vrikka kahtei hai, gurda usey kehtei hai, vrikka kehte hai, kidney kehte hai, uske parayvachi hai yeh sab. Dusra . . . (indistinct) . . . woh nirbal hai. Vaat Pita, prakriti hai, aur teen ang nirbal hai. To uske karan se atyant . . . (indistinct Sanskrit) . . . vrikka jo hai uska jo karya hai woh jal . . . (indistinct) . . . karna hai. To yeh inka vidhaan hai. (We call it rakt, also called gurda, it's called rakt, kidney—these are synonyms. Secondly . . . (indistinct) . . . it is weak. The constituency is of vata, pita and three organs have no strength. Because of which it's very . . . (indistinct Sanskrit) . . . the purpose of the kidney is water . . . (indistinct) . . . it does. So this is his constitution.)

Bhakti-caru: To aap, to theek kar sakte hai? (So, can you cure it?)

Indian lady: Aap chikitsa ke liye . . . (indistinct) . . . (For treatment you . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bolo. (Speak.)

Indian lady: Bhojan mein kya chal raha hai? (What is being given as food?)

Bhakti-caru: Bhojan humnein sirf fal ka keval rass, juice khatei hai. Mishri ka pani bhi thoda sa pitei hai aur to kuch khanei ka to dil nahin karta unko. (For food, he is only taking fruit juice. He is also drinking a small quantity of rock sugar and he doesn't desire to eat anything else.)

Indian lady: Jal? (Water?)

Bhakti-caru: Jal pani thoda pi lete hai aur aise khana kuch kha nahin saktei hai. (He takes a little water and can't eat anything else.)

Indian lady: Nahin, khana to kuch abhi dena bhi nahi hai. Jo char prakar ke bhojan hote hai . . . (indistinct) . . . aur aisi hi chikitsa honi chahiye jo . . . (indistinct) . . . karna padei aur shareer mein thodi shakti de. Jo Vyana vayu aur Apana vayu jo dono vikrit hai unko . . . (indistinct) . . . saoumya chikitsa chalni chahiye koi ugra chikitsa nahi chalni chaiye. Kyuki budhe admeio ki, jo sadhu, mahatma hai unke . . . (indistinct) . . . pravarti hoti hai na . . . (indistinct) . . . (No, food as it is—he should not be given now. The four kinds of food . . . (indistinct) . . . and treatment should be such . . . (indistinct) . . . has to be done so that it gives strength to the body. The outward moving air and the air which moves away, both are distorted they . . . (indistinct) . . . cool treatment should be given and any fiery treatment should not be given. Because an aged man, saint or a great personality, their . . . (indistinct) . . . tendency is there . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: Bolo je uni swapna dekhechen ramanuja-sampradaya vaisnava makaradhvaja dicchen. (Tell her that last night he had a dream that one Ramanuja sampradaya Vaisnava is giving him makara-dhvaja.)

Bhakti-caru: Acha, kal raat ko unhone khwab dekhe thei ki ek vaidyaraj. Ramanuja sampradaya ke ek vaishnav vaidya raj ne unke liye makara-dhvaja banaya. (Yesterday night he saw in a dream that a pre-eminent Ayurvedic physician, a Vaisnava of Ramanuja sampradaya—had made makara-dhvaja for him.)

Indian lady: Makara-dhvaja to unko chalna hai. Makara-dhvaja to unko chalega hi. Bagair makara-dhvaja ke woh. Pine ke liye Ganga jal. Yeh do cheej to chalni hai. Koi jyada vishisht, kuch to chalni nahi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . iskei atirikt koi . . . (indistinct) . . . (Makara-dhavaja has to be given to him. Makara-dhvaja for him will continue. Without Makara-dhvaja, for drinking water of Ganges. These two have to continue. Nothing very specific needs to continue . . . (indistinct) . . . apart from this . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Acha, balki unhone jo sapna dekhe thei unhne, ki jo vaidyaraj ne khud hi bana ke. Nahi to aise to ma makara-dhvaja bana hua hai humarei pass. (Okay, actually in the dream he saw that the Ayurvedic physician made it himself. Otherwise, we already have a prepared makara-dhvaja.)

Indian lady: Makara-dhvaja to sarvatra milta hi hai, lekin . . . (indistinct) . . . to uska anupan hai. Anupan ke sath mein chalta hai . . . (indistinct) . . . cheejein hai, anupan prathak hota hai. Makhara dhvaja jo hai, uska to khaskar ke . . . (indistinct) . . . makara-dhvaja ka, aur uske atirikt is ayu mein aur itne vishesht stage mein aur koi dawa . . . (indistinct) . . . nahi ja sakti. (Makara-dhvaja is available everywhere, but . . . (indistinct) . . . is the "drink taken after". Along with the "drink taken after", it continues . . . (indistinct) . . . things are. The "drink taken after" is different. Makara-dhvaja which is there, especially its . . . (indistinct) . . . makara-dhvaja's and apart from it, in this age and specially in this stage, no other medicine . . . (indistinct) . . . can be given.)

Bhakti-caru: To aap bana sakenge? (So, will you be able to make it?)

Indian lady: Ha, bana sakenge aur ganga jal ka aap ayojan kar he denge . . . (indistinct) . . . patra rakha rahega ussei pitei rehenge aur makara-dhvaja . . . (indistinct) . . . itna hi prayapt hai . . . (indistinct) . . . ras hi chalta raha. Ha ras hi chalega . . . (indistinct) . . . acha usmei aisi baat hai ki jaise agni jyada hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (Yes, I will be able to make it and as it is, you will be able to arrange Ganga jal . . . (indistinct) . . . vessel will be there and he will keep drinking and makara-dhvaja . . . (indistinct) . . . this much is adequate . . . (indistinct) . . . juice continues. Yes, juice will continue . . . (indistinct) . . . okay, the thing is, how fire is more . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Nahi unko khane to kuch nahin chahta bhi hai aise. To khane ka kuch sawal bhi nahi hota hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (No, he doesn't want anything to eat as it is. So no question of eating . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian lady: Nahi, sab ho jayega. woh shareer raksha ke liye hai. Woh koi avashyak nahi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . unke to, mein, mahapurosho ka to sirf thoda ashirwaad milta hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (No, everything will happen, that is to protect the body. That is not important either . . . (indistinct) . . . from him and I—from great men, little blessings are received . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Prabhupāda: O ki bolche? (What is she saying?)

Bhakti-caru: Uni bolchen je apni je apni je foler rosh khacchen, foler rosh khautai thik ache. Karon ekhon sudhu peyotai khaua bhalo, charbya-chosya theke dure thakai bhalo, tate antrer opore chapta beshi porbe na. Uni bolchen je mahapurush ra to sadharonoto chikitsar urdhwe. (She is saying that the fruit juice you are intaking that is okay. Because it is better to take only liquid things. It is advisable to be refrained from hard solid foods, for that creates more pressure on the intestine. And she is saying that saints are above any medical treatment.)

Prabhupāda: Ekhon ki khaua uchit? (Now what shall be eaten?)

Bhakti-caru: Aap kya dawai denge? Aap woh Makara-dhvaja banayenge? (What medicine will you give? Will you make makara-dhvaja?)

Indian lady: Ji. (Yes.)

Bhakti-caru: Makaradhavaj uni banaben Srila Prabhupada. Ebong uni bolchen makaradhvaja ebong ganga-jal . . . (She is saying she will make makara-dhvaja, Srila Prabhupāda. And she is saying makara-dhvaja and Ganga-water . . .)

Prabhupāda: Se je makaradhvaja toiri koreche, se kono kaje lagbena? (The makara-dhvaja he (the other doctor) made, won't that work?)

Bhakti-caru: Yaha ek vaidhraj hai, kaviraj, aur gopinath bazaar mein unka dukan hai. Unhne pehle Srila Prabhupada ji ko dekh rahe thei. To unhne makara-dhvaja banaya hai, rasayan. Makara-dhvaja, makara-dhvaja rasayan mein koi farak hai. (Here an Ayurvedic physician is there and in Gopinath bazar his shop is there. He had earlier seen Srila Prabhupāda. He has made makara-dhvaja, rasayan. Is there any difference between makara-dhvaja and rasayana.)

Indian lady: Nahi (No.)

Bhakti-caru: Acha, to unhne banaya hai, ke abhi unhne dene ko nahi chahte hai ki tabiyat. Shareer bahut durbal hai. (Okay, he has made it, he doesn't want to give now because of his health. Body is very weak now.)

Indian lady: Dene ke liye, yeh koi baat nahi hai. Makara-dhvaja ko atirikt matra mein diya jai . . . (indistinct) . . . (For giving there is no issue, makara-dhvaja to be given in appropriate amount . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Yeh banaya hai . . . (indistinct) . . . (This has been made . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Indian lady: . . . (indistinct) . . . yeh Makara-dhvaja nahi hai . . . (indistinct) . . . makara-dhvaja to ek prathak cheej hoti hai. Yeh . . . (indistinct) . . . (. . . (indistinct) . . . this is not makara-dhvaja . . . (indistinct) . . . makara-dhvaja is a distinct thing. This . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Ismei likha hua hai makara-dhvaja rasayan. (On it, it is written makara-dhvaja rasayan.)

Indian Lady: Makara-dhavaja to aap yahi nirman karaiye, to samne jaise mein vidhaan bata du, to jo jo apko . . . (indistinct) . . . (Makara-dhvaja you make here itself, in front, as i tell the procedure, so what all . . . (indistinct) . . .)

Bhakti-caru: Acha, woh kar diya. Hum log wapas jaane ke waqt woh kaviraj ke paas thoda rokunga, unhe dekhe thoda unke saath . . . (Okay, that is done. While going back we will stop at the physician's, see him and with him a little . . .)

Indian Lady: Kaviraj, mujhe aap chahei . . . (indistinct) . . . ja sakte hai, mein svatantra hu. (Kavirāja, if you want . . . (indistinct) . . . go there, I'm independent.)

Bhakti-caru: Mein soch raha tha ki unko ek hi sath, apke sath unko bhi lau. Balki unka thoda kaam . . . (indistinct) . . . (I was thinking along with you I will get him. Actually his little work . . . (indistinct) . . .) (break) (end)