770327 - Conversation A - Bombay

Conversations by Date, 1977

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

770327R1-BOMBAY - March 27, 1977 - 31:29 Minutes

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) . . . so if you combine together and go to any scientist, you challenge and prove scientifically. And still he sees it mistake. You do not know what is life's position, but we shall. Life is different. Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Without life, this matter has no value. This room is well decorated, well furnished. Why? Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Because the life is there. If there was no life, then who cares for Bombay? Heaps of stone, that's all. Who cares for it? So you do not know that particular item and try to convince them according to the modern scientific . . . then we shall be triumphant. Everything. Everything. Challenge these rascals that, "You have got power, and you will get more power by serving Kṛṣṇa." Your presentation was very nice.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda's mercy.

Prabhupāda: What Dr. Dattrey says, after hearing your lecture?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Many . . . some engineers came, and some doctors also came. They wanted us speak in Bombay Hospital. And just now also I got a letter from England from Jagadguru Swami. He said that on our way to the United States we should stop in England. He says that he talked something about Bhaktivedanta Institute in England. He said we should speak in Oxford and Cambridge Universities. He said there is a very good preaching background there. So he invited us to . . .

Prabhupāda: You will be invited. You stick to your position and train up your assistants and recruit more and more. We shall come out successful. Write books. You can take. Now yesterday Dr. Dattey, did he say anything?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He didn't say much, but Dr. Sharma, he was discussing, and he was telling that he will definitely make an arrangement in Bombay Hospital for us to speak. But he was very impressed. And some Life Members came later on when the greeting of the paṇḍāl was finished. And some engineers also. They want to discuss something today also.

Prabhupāda: Recruit them. And speak in such societies. We have now our prestige and preaching. It will be very nice honor everywhere. So Kṛṣṇa has given you some talent. Utilize it. These rascals are misleading. Although the instruction is there, they are misinterpreting in their own way, misleading themselves and misleading others. They say the name of God. They do not know what is God, although God is explaining Himself. Such a rascal. God is explaining, "Here, I'm God." He is accepted, and they do not . . . when you ask them what is God: "That we do not know. Our God is . . . (indistinct) . . ." Such things are there. So they have to be convinced that these half-educated leaders cannot make you happy. It is not possible. They do not know the basic principle of life. Take guidance from Kṛṣṇa. That is our movement. You'll be happy. And don't be carried away by the whims. This is an important chance, human life. These motorcars are running, they are running just like the flies come, phut-phut-phut-phut. That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, Eleventh Chapter. Blind. Expedite death, that's all. There is no solution. The solution is here, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So recruit first of all. Just like these doctor friends. First of all get some friends.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Bāla-kṛṣṇa told me that we have doctor, medical doctor, M.B.V. He's from Russia. He is going to join us.

Girirāja: Yeah, Dr. Sharma. He lives on Hare Kṛṣṇa Land. He's an Indian who took his degree in Alaska and he has two sister-in-laws also who took their doctor's degree in Moscow, and they have great faith in Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Make them come, make them come. Treat them nicely. Give them good place. In this way increase the number of workers. Then people will, "Oh . . . they are not religious sentiments. They have got books, they have got scientists, they have got doctors." Is it not? And we can challenge them. "Come on, what is our education, let us test. We are prepared to talk with you like scientists." So you are all here now and . . . organize in Bombay. Bombay, the center of Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A few students came day before yesterday from Bombay University.

Prabhupāda: Let them come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They wanted to study in Bhaktivedanta Institute.

Prabhupāda: Very good. Give them good place. We don't want tenants or . . . turn the whole building into Bhaktivedanta Institute. And another building start. Yes. We have got enough place. I want that the intelligent man should come and learn this science. That is wanted.

yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas

tat tad evetaro janaḥ

sa yat pramāṇaṁ kurute

lokas tad anuvartate

(BG 3.21)

These people. Bring important men, important student. Take this opportunity. Give them nice place so that they may not be uncomfortable. Give them good food.

Girirāja: Yes. We have a lot of facility.

Prabhupāda: Then there should not be any scarcity for their comfort. People are trained up to the modern comforts. Therefore I am building so big, big institution. Otherwise, I . . . that's a fact. Rādhā-Dāmodara temple is sufficient for me. It is not for me I want these big, big buildings. I am accustomed to live anywhere. But those who are educated, scientists, they are accustomed, Europeans, Americans . . . they must be given proper place. That was my Guru Mahārāja's policy. Not that all of a sudden they should now live on the floor. No, that's not possible. Then they will be disturbed. Give them nice place, give them nice food, nice instruction. You are all intelligent boys. Do it immediately. Another building construct. That colony should be for first-class Kṛṣṇa conscious people, to preach. So Gargamuni, you also help.

Gargamuni: Yes. We stopped in a college, Acyutānanda and myself, a D.A.B. college, and we spoke to some of these professors of physics, and we showed him the books and especially that Scientific Basis . . .

Prabhupāda: On the whole I very much appreciated your presentation. I thank you very much.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Girirāja: They like that book, Scientific Basis.

Prabhupāda: The real scientific method is that the life which is in contact with this matter, he's suffering. And the real, I mean to say, enjoyment or peaceful life is to get him out of this condition of material contact. That is the best benefit. But these rascals, they are trying to adjust material things to give him happiness. "You are walking, all right, you take this car." That is not happiness. He does not know that in the car there are so many problems—more danger than walking. This is the mistake going on. Car is good, but that is not the solution. Solution is different. That we must . . . na te viduḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). Let us go back to home, back to Godhead. (pause) So that Sharma is more impressed.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Sharma just came here from the United States. He studied for a few years. So he is also a cardiologist.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And he had some friends there in Bombay Hospital, and he is going to definitely make arrangement so we can give a seminar in the hospital.

Prabhupāda: Important man. Recognize him. Make him member.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We will also make some engagements in . . . there is an institute called Patha Institute for Fundamental Research. They study about nuclear physics. So I am going to arrange for one of our people to speak.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Speak in important institution like that. That will command respect.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He is going to speak about quantum physics and Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: These things the swamis cannot do.

Girirāja: No. None of them. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Either Cinmayananda or this Sai Baba or this . . .

Indian man: Muktananda.

Prabhupāda: They cannot.

Gargamuni: None of them. Especially in India, this will be a great attraction, if we speak these subjects . . . we should call a press conference. Whenever these scientists make some new discovery they hold a press conference. So we should also hold a press conference and say "Life comes from life."

Prabhupāda: That will come automatically. We are not very great scientists.(?) Let us speak important institute.

Śrīdhara: In India they have a club, and some of the famous scientists in India belong to it. It's called the "Life Comes From Matter" club.

Devotee: Really?

Prabhupāda: Challenge them.

Śrīdhara: I think you met one of the head men.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I met a head man. He is in Trombay, the Bhava Atomic Research Center. But I discussed for about three and a half hours, and he showed me all the laboratory that he is doing. And then we sat together and then we discussed the . . .

Prabhupāda: Did you record all the talks?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This was not recorded.

Prabhupāda: It should be recorded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I didn't have my cassette with me.

Prabhupāda: You keep one assistant, to record you.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I pointed out the mistakes, the defects that we have in scientific studies, and he thought very carefully and he agreed to the point.

Prabhupāda: Yes, any intelligent man should agree to the right point.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We knew what he was doing, but he didn't know what we were doing. That was the . . .

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. Childish. A child does not know what he is doing. That is the difference between a child and elderly man. Yesterday there was sufficient crowd, I think.

Śrīdhara: There was nice crowd, all respectable men also. Tonight it will be bigger.

Gargamuni: Sunday is always the biggest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I find Bombay people are a little bit more open-minded.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Bombay is the best city in India, undoubtedly. From the very beginning, and the richest city. The government revenue is collected from Bombay sixty-three percent. Bombay is so rich. Sixty-three percent from Bombay and thirty-seven percent from whole of India. That is the position.

Śrīdhara: Calcutta is also very wealthy.

Prabhupāda: No.

Girirāja: They keep the money in black.

Śrīdhara: Oh, in black money.

Prabhupāda: And religiously-minded.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I find almost everybody appreciates Śrīla Prabhupāda so much, especially in Bombay. Anybody who knows about Śrīla Prabhupāda, they highly appreciate, especially these scholars. But in Delhi it is very different. People are very close-minded.

Prabhupāda: And government servant. After all, they are servants. In Bombay, they are in big, big business. They are limited. The government servants, they are limited. They are important so long they are on the post. Otherwise, they have no importance.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Just like Indira Gandhi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Personal importance they have . . .

Svarūpa Dāmodara: From the newspaper I see that the United States is praising a lot this election.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The democratic campaign. But from our point of view, these are not the solution. Temporary. Temporary relief. Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. You know this? Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. I have spoken several times in . . . formerly, the criminal was taken in the middle of the river and he was drowned. And when he was suffocating, he's held up. Then he, ahhh (takes deep breath). This relief is like that. That means as soon as he takes little strength, again, put again. Then daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. These rascals are like that. For the time being there is little relief, "Oh, we are now free from the leaders." And there is another hand is being created. Bābājī or something like that. Then again they shall put his . . . this is going on.

Śrīdhara: I remember one example, you said we do not care who is manager of the stool room.

Prabhupāda: Daṇḍya jane rāja yena nadīte cubāya. So make plan to speak in these big, big institutions. And recruit members from them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you think that in America there will be much receptivity at this time?

Prabhupāda: Make first of all in India.

Girirāja: From India you can be famous.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, first of all, when we have this journal out, this volume, first volume is going to be out in about three months, and then it will be more effective. We are going to speak, at the same time distribute the journals in the form of written forms, as evidence of what has been spoken. So that way it has more weight. And if they don't understand they can read it and study, and they can . . .

Prabhupāda: In the meantime let us recruit some important . . . just like this Russian scientist.

Girirāja: This Dr. Khorana is supposed to be . . .

Prabhupāda: I think as our books are entering Russia, it will create something.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I think it will be . . .

Prabhupāda: Eighteen books, Bhāgavata, they have ordered.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a joke. Someone is going to read them. The Russians are the biggest readers in the world.

Prabhupāda: Not only that. They are anxious to read from Indian literature. They know there is substance in these books. That they know.

Gargamuni: In some of the libraries where we left books, we have gone back, and the librarians have said that your books are very heavily read. They are taken out and read. We have gone back, because I wanted to find out, to see how many, and they said: "Oh, they are very popular. They are always being taken out." We asked some librarians. So they are definitely being used.

Śrīdhara: Tell him about that one vice-chancellor.

Gargamuni: Yeah, I did. I told him. Even your old Bhāgavatams, we looked in the back. One boy looked in the back where they have the check-outs, and they were heavily used for many years. At least thirty times they were taken out in last few years. The old Bhāgavatams. (break)

Prabhupāda: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement . . . art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. If you have got Nārāyaṇa background, then what is the cause of being afraid?

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve

na kutaścana bibhyati

svargāpavarga-narakeṣv

api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ

(SB 6.17.28)

Prahlāda Mahārāja, so much obstacles by his father at home. Still, he is speaking to his father:

tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ

sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt

hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

(SB 7.5.5)

The father was astonished that, "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatās . . . svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). We have got small boys also as good as Brahmā, more than Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ prahlādaḥ kapilo manu, prahlāda. Immediately comes Prahlāda also. Amongst svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ . . . janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakiḥ. Read Bhāgavatam, amalaṁ purāṇam. Read yourself, let them read. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no question of cheating or getting some some material profit out of this movement. We have no such thing. Material profit will automatically . . . my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "You are thinking of material things so. We should come and fall down at your feet, 'Why you are worrying? You go and speak the real truth.' " Taka karir janya cinta korcho? (Are you worrying about money?) . . .(indistinct) . . . " 'Go and speak the truth.' " No compromise. So I never felt scarcity of money. He is from the very beginning.

Gargamuni: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Coming, money was . . . you know. You were also.

Gargamuni: You made the landlord a member. Mr. hmm . . .

Prabhupāda: All right, go.

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. Take this seriously. (end)